EVC and park hopping? Also am I being unreasonable?

[delmar411]

I'm trying to plan out what will be the easiest ways to park hop for our Dec trip. FIL will be in an EVC with extremely limited ability to walk more than a few feet (possibly completely unable to walk by Dec) and cannot managed stairs at all.

I know the boats from MGM to Epcot have ramps and he could just drive onto the boat but we'd like to hop from MK to Epcot from time to time (9day trip).

What would be the easiest for him and least likely to have to get off the EVC. Can he stay on it on the monorail? Is there a special car or can all the cars take an EVC? IS the monorail our best bet for going MK to Epcot and back again?

Does it take a longer time to park hop with an EVC? Is there anything specific that I should be aware of when park hopping?

My other question is am I being unreasonable to tell them that we will not get on the buses with them (cut the line) just because of the EVC? I understand that those need to be loaded first but I have watched in near tears as large groups of ppl have gone onto a bus with their EVC party putting so many ppl on the bus that we couldn't get on, even though we got in line before them. My IL's think we are being "mean" and "uncaring" towards them. But we aren't sharing a room, when we leave for the day we'll just be going back to the resort to bed and I can pop over to their room once we get back and get the kids settled and make our plans for the next day. In the mornings this shouldn't be an issue as we have early ADRs almost every day and will be up and going before the crowds. We've told them the same principle applies on rides that have limited HA cars (think Toy Story Mania) and our party would be pushing another family or two to wait even longer. Our party together is a party of NINE so it's not just a couple extra people.
If I'm being completely unreasonable and shouldn't be thinking like this, I figure this is the forum to set me straight. Or if my thoughts are right on the money, feel free to tell me that too!

I appreciate all the input I can get. I seriously want to have a nice trip as this may be the last trip FIL takes and it will most likely be the only trip with their only g-kids. But I have an extremely short fuse and when I'm under pressure it is pretty much non-existant and I can very well see me flipping out at them in the middle of Main St if I've not covered all my bases. And taken a tranq or something.

 

[Eeyores Butterfly]

As a former CM:

1.) Yes, he can stay on the ECV on the monorail. Monorail is by far the easiest way to travel with an ECV or WC IMHO. The loading and unloading of ECVs and WCs doesn't hold it up normally and they are very good about accommodating.

2.) Do not be afraid to get on a bus with your family, unless you are a large party. It's nice that you are thinking about others, but you have every right to stay with your family.

3.) Be aware that there have been many problems with the Friendship Boats CMs refusing to get the ramps. They should get it automatically everytime, but several people I know have had multiple experiences with the CMs refusing to get the ramp, being huffy, etc. I hope that this does nto happen to you, but if it does, call the transportation office immediately! Sadly, this has been an ongoing problem.

4.) Busses can also be a problem. They tend to fill up, and people have had soem bad experiences with them as well. Allow plenty of extra time when you are travelling by bus, this is probably the one where you will see the most significant delay using a WC or ECV.

I hope this helps!

 

[merryweather20]

Do not be afraid to board with your family. They in fact do not allow large parties to board first. Disney has set the number at 5+ the wheel-chair user. This allows enough of a family to stay together, that in most circumstances there are enough people to help the wc user and prevent small children etc. from standing in line alone. Your in laws may appreciate an extra pair of eyes when backing into the space on the bus.

Just because you saw a bunch of people board at the same time as a wheel-chair user, it does not mean they are with the wheel-chair user. People often try to tag along for the perceived benefit Or they might have had a separate situation entirely.

 

[delmar411]

Thank you both for your responses!

I'll be prepared to get noisy and have the transportation # pre-programmed if the CM's are being huffy over the ramp at the boats.

And I really appreciate knowing that it is 5 + the WC/EVC user. That way I can let my girls go with them if they want while DH & I stay in line with the boys. I can 'give in' w/o really doing so.

 

[SueM in MN]

I can't write much because I'm not at home, but just wanted to point you toward the disABILITIES FAQs thread. There is a section about travel on the boats, buses and monorails. There are some pictures that show how things work.

 

[Andrew Bichard]

3.) Be aware that there have been many problems with the Friendship Boats CMs refusing to get the ramps. They should get it automatically everytime, but several people I know have had multiple experiences with the CMs refusing to get the ramp, being huffy, etc. I hope that this does nto happen to you, but if it does, call the transportation office immediately! Sadly, this has been an ongoing problem.

I'll be prepared to get noisy and have the transportation # pre-programmed if the CM's are being huffy over the ramp at the boats.

I have been staying at Boardwalk every other year since it opened and have used the Friendship boats to get to MGM/DHS and Epcot many, many times.

I have never had trouble with boat crews refusing to get ramps for my power wheelchair or even doing so resentfully. I have always found the boat crews helpful & friendly. If there is a problem now, it must be a very recent one.

Andrew

 

[Eeyores Butterfly]

Andrew: Several posters on another board I have frequent have had very bad experiences with the Friendship CMs. A few years ago one was in a WC and told to load "back wheels first" because the CM didn't want to get out the ramp. She ended up on the ground and was one giant bruise. Since then she has always insisted on a ramp and has been met with a lot of attitude. Some will do it like they are supposed to, but in her experiences most did not.

Another poster just returned from WDW and unfortunately getting the ramp was the exception, not the rule. She even had one person pull the ramp out from under her! Another CM (a truly friendly Friendship CM) who put out the ramp automatically was talking to her. He is taking her concerns to a transportation manager and even knew who the CM was that pulled out the ramp, apparently she is rather well known for her behavior.

 

[Piper]

I just returned a couple of weeks ago from the Dolphin. Most of the time, they put out the ramp, a few times I had to ask, and a couple of times, they wouldn't do it.

 

[Momelie]

I probably take those boats about twice a month. I'd say it runs around 60-40, with 60 being the percentage of times I have to ask for a ramp. Of those times, I'd say about 25% of the time I have to ask more than once, and rather firmly, at that. To me, its a progressively increasing problem, one I encountered much more with a manual wheelchair than an ECV.

 

[skipperkim]

Also remember that a bus can only take 3 ECV's or wheelchairs max. That said, I've only seen this happen once.

 

[OneLittleSpark]

The buses have two tie down points on them, but some drivers will allow a folding wheelchair to be folded and held if there is space. There are a couple of special buses that have (I think) 6 wheelchair tie downs, but these are request only, and are intended for parties travelling with a lot of wheelchairs (e.g. school groups, clubs etc).

 

[clkelley]

I wouldn't worry about boarding your family with the ECV user. Lot's of times you'll have to wait on a 2nd bus anyway as the one that pulls up is full or has a broken lift or something.

It is only the attractions that have the limitation with 5 + the ECV/wheelchair user.

 

[merryweather20]

I wouldn't worry about boarding your family with the ECV user. Lot's of times you'll have to wait on a 2nd bus anyway as the one that pulls up is full or has a broken lift or something.

It is only the attractions that have the limitation with 5 + the ECV/wheelchair user.

This is untrue the buses follow the 5+rule as well.

 

[aubriee]

This is untrue the buses follow the 5+rule as well.

I'm afraid not. I was down there this past May at POFQ. There was a really huge group that caught the bus about the same time I did almost every morning. The entire party of 15 would load with the ECV user every morning. They spent all week laughing about how they never had to stand on a bus and how glad they were that "Tana" had hurt her ankle before they left home. What was really bad, was that toward the end of the week, I was on the bus to MK with them, and "Tana" was complaining saying that someone else was going to ride the scooter that day, because she was sick of it and her ankle was fine now. Several in her group started fussing at her that she had to continue using to scooter, because "it guaranteed all of us seats on the bus" and also made some of the ride lines shorter for them. My mom uses an ECV down there, so I was left wondering what lines are shorter with an ECV. Every time we've taken my mom's ECV through a line, it usually seems to take us longer or just as long.

 

[BroganMc]

I'm afraid not. I was down there this past May at POFQ. There was a really huge group that caught the bus about the same time I did almost every morning. The entire party of 15 would load with the ECV user every morning. They spent all week laughing about how they never had to stand on a bus and how glad they were that "Tana" had hurt her ankle before they left home. What was really bad, was that toward the end of the week, I was on the bus to MK with them, and "Tana" was complaining saying that someone else was going to ride the scooter that day, because she was sick of it and her ankle was fine now. Several in her group started fussing at her that she had to continue using to scooter, because "it guaranteed all of us seats on the bus" and also made some of the ride lines shorter for them. My mom uses an ECV down there, so I was left wondering what lines are shorter with an ECV. Every time we've taken my mom's ECV through a line, it usually seems to take us longer or just as long.

Ok, I'm going to say something potentially explosive. Since your's is the magic 100th post I've read recently commenting on this subject I'm quoting yours. It's nothing personal but instead of the "yeah cheaters suck" discussion we usually see, here's an alternate POV.

I have grown up with disability since the age of 2. Mine was purely physical and slowly progressive. For near 20 years I endured so much pain and suffering just because I was trying to keep up and fit in with the "normal" folks. But no matter how hard I tried to downplay my difficulties everyone knew being with me meant walking slower and having to endure more obstacles. It was a drag for those "normal" folks to have me around and I felt their frustration. "If only I wasn't disabled" I would think.

Then I went to Disney and had to use a wheelchair just to get from the bus to the turnstiles. But with my chair Disney CMs started signalling me out for special access. I went through back doors, had a spot reserved for me, and my "normal" companions got to go with me. Suddenly it wasn't a drag to be around me anymore and having a disability wasn't some giant wooden cross over my shoulders. It was just a fact of life to be accommodated like anything else.

That's why I don't get too upset with the temporarily disabled at Disney or how their party marvels at the advantages of living life this way. Being disabled is not all bad. Maybe if more "normal" people understood that we wouldn't have to deal with the ogre of prejudice. The "I'd rather be dead than disabled" mentality.

The fact is every "special access" the disabled is granted at Disney is really just equal access. It seems special solely because the real world has always been so UNEQUAL. In Disney CMs are trained to address the wheelchair user; in the real world people routinely talk to our presumed "caretakers" instead.

OP, don't ostracize your relatives just because one uses an ECV. If you do that, you'll be defining them by their disability and inadvertantly insulting them. There's a reason why ECV's are loaded onto busses first along with their parties. It is purely to protect the non-ECV user and Disney. When you stay at resorts with mixed use busses there is also no guarantee your party will all get a seat. They do not unload busses to load an ECV.

As for the Friendship boats, I can't say I was every denied a ramp or encountered a surly skipper. Sometimes the water level is high enough that a ramp just isn't necessary. For manual chairs, a larger drop is possible than my powerchair with the EZ bolt hanging off the bottom. But I also find I can easily outpace the boats from the Boardwalk to EPCOT. That is assuming I'm not saddled with some slow-walking "normal" people. (Oh how the worm turns...)

 

[aubriee]

BroganMc, if you reread my post you will fine nothing offensive about ECV users or even their 5+ family members loading with them. The problem I saw in May was that literally 15 other people would board with that young lady and toward the end of the week, she herself said she no longer needed the ECV and did not want it. It was her family that kept insisting she use it, just so they could be guaranteed seats on the bus and easier access to some rides. You may have had to be there, but this young lady was totally fed up and she herself said she did not need or want the ECV and was refusing to ride it in the parks, insisting that someone else ride it. They were arguing quite loudly about it, in fact. Everyone on the bus heard them.

My 74 y/o mom uses an ECV everytime she goes to WDW and yes my husband and I do get on the bus with her. That is not the same situation though. No way my mom could possibly do WDW without an ECV and no way would she get on that bus without us. She has absolutely no sense of direction and is never more than a few feet from one of us at WDW, because of her tendency to get lost. This woman is terrified of getting lost and sticks to us like glue.

I would never assume to judge whether someone needed an ECV or not. It's none of my business. However, the group at POFQ back in May were definitely abusing it, talking about it, and laughing about it, making no attempt to hide it. Apparently the young lady had hurt her foot/ankle several days before the trip and they rented an ECV just in case she needed it, which she herself was arguing that she did not and was sick of riding in it, just so the family could get seats on the bus and have a different access onto some rides.

If I offended you, I apologize. I am the one who will usually take up for people on an ECV. If someone waiting in line ever moans about one, I will let them know right quick that they'd better be grateful for not having to use one. My mom would give anything if she didn't. I let them know how people have a tendency to ignore the ECV rider and how people just walk out in front of them and then act like it's the ECV rider's fault. I also let them know that we should count our blessings everyday that we have two healthy legs and the good health to stand and walk anywhere we want to. Sorry, but I too have no patience for people who complain about ECVs, however, I also have no patience for a family like I saw last May who were definitely laughing about taking advantage either.

 

[aubriee]

BroganMc, you said something else in your post that touched me. You said that anytime people went with you that they knew they'd have to go slower and it was a drag. Did you stop to think that maybe those people just wanted to be with you and couldn't care less about your pace. Due to financial reasons and the fact that my parents never took us on vacation, I didn't get to go to WDW until I was in my 40's. About a year later, we had to put my dad in a nursing home and my mom had to move in with me. I was determined to take her on her first trip to WDW. She wanted to go, but knew she couldn't walk that much. I had to convince her she wouldn't be a burden if we rented her an ECV. She kept saying she didn't want to slow me down. I don't know how many arguments we had over that subject. I had to almost force her on that plane, with her being so excited, but at the same time afraid of 'slowing me down'. I wanted the trip to be magical for her, so we went in early Dec for all the Christmas stuff and I had purposely booked ALOT of character meals, an Illumination Cruise, Hoop de Doo etc. Yeah, we took the trip slower than I normally would, but we had soooo much fun. Seeing the look on that 72 y/o face the first time the characters gave her a hug and a kiss was priceless. No way was that ECV a burden and no way was my mom a drag!! Those memories and pictures are priceless to me, just as I'm sure your friends and family's time with you is priceless. It doesn't hurt us to slow down and just enjoy the moment. My mom's going back to WDW with us in September (for her fourth trip) and there's nothing I wouldn't do to make her trip special. That ECV is going to help. Her choices are: she uses the ECV or she can't go. I dare anyone else to make a snide remark about her being in it. No way is hanging out with her going to be a "drag". I'm taking my momma to WDW. We're going to ride Dumbo, we're eating with the characters, we're going to MNSSHP, my mom is going to get to see Cirque de Soleil for the very first time, and we're going to make some priceless memories. That ECV is going to allow us to do it, just like yours allowed your family and friends to make fantastic memories with you.

 

[SueM in MN]

The buses have two tie down points on them, but some drivers will allow a folding wheelchair to be folded and held if there is space. There are a couple of special buses that have (I think) 6 wheelchair tie downs, but these are request only, and are intended for parties travelling with a lot of wheelchairs (e.g. school groups, clubs etc).

Correct.
The buses have 2 tiedown spots, plus a number of folded wheelchairs can be brought on (similar to their being no limit to the number of folded strollers being brought on as long as there is room).

This is untrue the buses follow the 5+rule as well.

A 'party' is defined in the WDW Guidebook for Guests with Disabilities as 5 plus the person with a disability.
For attractions, that is usually strictly followed (at least in my experience and in the experience of many other people who have been to WDW a lot of times).
For the buses, some drivers follow it and some are more lenient. The large parties that were allowed to board together are the exception rather than the rule, but they are the ones people notice most and comment about.

In many cases, the whole group would have been able to get on the bus anyway and would have actually even gotten seats if some had stayed with the person in the wheelchair/ECV and others had gotten into the line to board the bus. I would think the reason some of the larger parties do stay together is fear of not being able to get onto the same bus and rather than get in the line and worry about it, they all get in with the person traveling with a wheelchair or ECV.

BroganMc, if you reread my post you will fine nothing offensive about ECV users or even their 5+ family members loading with them. The problem I saw in May was that literally 15 other people would board with that young lady and toward the end of the week, she herself said she no longer needed the ECV and did not want it. It was her family that kept insisting she use it, just so they could be guaranteed seats on the bus and easier access to some rides. You may have had to be there, but this young lady was totally fed up and she herself said she did not need or want the ECV and was refusing to ride it in the parks, insisting that someone else ride it. They were arguing quite loudly about it, in fact. Everyone on the bus heard them..................................
If I offended you, I apologize. I am the one who will usually take up for people on an ECV. If someone waiting in line ever moans about one, I will let them know right quick that they'd better be grateful for not having to use one. My mom would give anything if she didn't. I let them know how people have a tendency to ignore the ECV rider and how people just walk out in front of them and then act like it's the ECV rider's fault. I also let them know that we should count our blessings everyday that we have two healthy legs and the good health to stand and walk anywhere we want to. Sorry, but I too have no patience for people who complain about ECVs, however, I also have no patience for a family like I saw last May who were definitely laughing about taking advantage either.

I would not take it personally, as BroganMc said she was using a quote of your post to 'reply' to a lot of recent posts where people were complaining about large groups getting on the bus with one person with an ECV. Your post was well thought out and reported a much more complete picture of a situation.
There was a 'flurry' of threads/posts about the same subject in the past few months. My guess is that a lot of people were reporting the same situation/party that you saw because the situations reported were so similar.
If that family all got on twice a day for a number of days, a lot of people saw and heard them. Instead of one family being posted about once, there are many posts about the same family, with everyone thinking they are 'reporting' a different family. So, one family getting on with 15 people becomes many people doing the same thing.
That flurry of threads/posts/irate complaints is what I think BroganMc was responding to, not your post in particular.

I think that the people in your situation had nothing to 'lose' by behaving the way they did. They 'saw' a real temporary need as an advantage and 'used' it for whatever they could 'get'. Because of it being a temporary situation, they didn't see the many 'downsides' of having a disability and only looked at the 'advantages'.
I think people in a temporary situation have little 'incentive' to behave in a more responsible way because it was only a temporary situation. Next time they come, chances are good that no one will need and ECV.

Most (but not all) people with more permanent situations are aware of how their behavior may appear to others and try to not do anything that reflects badly on people using whatever assistive device they use. Most have been on the receiving end of other guest's bad opinions/stereotypes about people with disabilities. (This is not to say that all guests with permanent disabilities are paragons of virtue - some would be impatient and rude without a disability and continue to be that with a disability.)
Some people with temporary disabilities are very aware of how they might appear and don't want to be perceived as 'taking advantage' of anything (even to the point of causing themselves pain to avoid other people seeing them ride in the queue and wait the same amount of time as everyone else).

The people who don't care how they appear do affect the treatment that all the rest of us get.

BroganMc, you said something else in your post that touched me. You said that anytime people went with you that they knew they'd have to go slower and it was a drag. Did you stop to think that maybe those people just wanted to be with you and couldn't care less about your pace. Due to financial reasons and the fact that my parents never took us on vacation, I didn't get to go to WDW until I was in my 40's. About a year later, we had to put my dad in a nursing home and my mom had to move in with me. I was determined to take her on her first trip to WDW. She wanted to go, but knew she couldn't walk that much. I had to convince her she wouldn't be a burden if we rented her an ECV. She kept saying she didn't want to slow me down. I don't know how many arguments we had over that subject. I had to almost force her on that plane, with her being so excited, but at the same time afraid of 'slowing me down'. I wanted the trip to be magical for her, so we went in early Dec for all the Christmas stuff and I had purposely booked ALOT of character meals, an Illumination Cruise, Hoop de Doo etc. Yeah, we took the trip slower than I normally would, but we had soooo much fun. Seeing the look on that 72 y/o face the first time the characters gave her a hug and a kiss was priceless. No way was that ECV a burden and no way was my mom a drag!! Those memories and pictures are priceless to me, just as I'm sure your friends and family's time with you is priceless. It doesn't hurt us to slow down and just enjoy the moment. My mom's going back to WDW with us in September (for her fourth trip) and there's nothing I wouldn't do to make her trip special. That ECV is going to help. Her choices are: she uses the ECV or she can't go. I dare anyone else to make a snide remark about her being in it. No way is hanging out with her going to be a "drag". I'm taking my momma to WDW. We're going to ride Dumbo, we're eating with the characters, we're going to MNSSHP, my mom is going to get to see Cirque de Soleil for the very first time, and we're going to make some priceless memories. That ECV is going to allow us to do it, just like yours allowed your family and friends to make fantastic memories with you.

There are some very good points here.
My FIL would not rent an ECV for many years, even though he could hardly walk and would be in pain all evening with ice on his knees. It hurt to watch him have to rock to get out of a chair and toddle around on knees and hips that we knew hurt with every move.
It also hurt to see him miss out on things we were doing and miss out on being able to see his grandchildren enjoy the parks. I don't know if it was pride or shame or what, but he was well aware of people with wheelchairs since my youngest DD can't walk at all. He was also aware of the negative comments we sometimes encountered and saw himself as 'not disabled', and so, worthy of those comments. He was aware that his inability to walk or stand was a 'slowing' factor for the rest of us. He didn't understand that we wanted him with us, slow or not. We just didn't want to cause him any extra pain.

When he finally got an ECV for the first time at Epcot, he was a different person. He didn't just station himself in one place while the rest of us went on things. He said it was the first time in 10 years that he actually ended the day not in severe pain. We had a couple of years of good trips where he rented an ECV and we could see his excitement at seeing things he had not been able to see for years.
I would agree that most of the people using a wheelchair or ECV probably look at themselves much differently than the rest of their party looks at them. Where some people see the wheelchair/ECV as a negative thing, I see it as a tool to assist with a limitation (like glasses for the feet).

 

[Captain's Wife]

As part of the "entourage" of an ECV/WC user, I felt compelled to respond to the OP's concern about boarding the buses altogether.

I think it's wonderful that you are trying to be considerate of other families, and having seen the glares my kids get when they hop onto the bus behind Captain and his chair over the years, I can understand it. But try to see it from your ECV user's pov. In spite of all of the procedures that are in place to "equalize" the ECV/WC user's access, inequality remains - they won't be chasing the grandkids around the pool, they won't be hiking up the stairs to go down a water slide with a grandchild in their lap, they won't be snuggling up next to a kid in the ride vehicle of Ellen's Energy Adventure (if the accessible ride vehicle is used). While you and the rest will be able to hop back and forth across Main Street at will, your ECV user will be looking for the curb cuts so they can leave or enter the sidewalk.

I can think of a dozen realities that we've encountered where the ECV/WC has made our experience at WDW not bad...just slightly different. The kids and I weave through crowds in stores, dash in or out any door without worrying about whether or not it opens automatically, etc. etc. while Captain is left to find the "accessible" route, or hangs back from exceptionally crowded areas because it's too hard to manoever. Wanting to not be seperated from the rest of us on the bus is not an unreasonable request on the part of your ECV user.

Two suggestions:

If your party is larger, perhaps you could split into two groups at bus time, with one party leaving the room or park ahead of you and the second group leaving in time to get the next bus? That way there's more of a "we're all getting there on our own" feel and less of a "we're seperated because of this machine" feel.

The second thing is that just because you board the bus with your ECV user, doesn't mean you HAVE to stay seated. Quite often, my kids have been known to relinquish their seats when appropriate, even though they got to be on the bus ten minutes ahead of everyone else.

JMHO

Shelley