Epcot to get major transformations

[ArwenMarie]

Everything that has it turning into a ride park with no respect for what made it unique when it opened, and made it unique for a long time. You want to overhaul Universe of Energy? Please do it. But not by converting it into a GoG roller coaster.Put that ride in DHS. Use UoE for something at least relates to EPCOT's original purpose, or takes it in a new direction. Do SDMT type ride, with the slow sections being about different types of fuel and how they work, or any one of a dozen other possibilities.

I hear you. But people don't care about different types of fuel. Or science for that matter (I have two degrees in chemistry believe me I know!)

 

[George4]

People want escape. Fantasy. Fiction. WDW isn't competing with Colonial Williamsburg or Washington DC. They're competing with video games and giant TVs that keep getting better and better. Not to mention movies. Look at what they just did to Kraken at SW...stuck a VR headset on it. Look at Flights of Passage...same idea

And of course, the issue of merchandise. There are a whole bunch of attractions, some of which are my faves, which will be closed at some point due to the lack of selling merchandise. This is sad but true

Have you been on FoP? I don't love the ride (struggle to see 3D due to eye issues), but it is an amazing experience. It is so much more than VR glasses. It is intended to compete with video games, sure, but the number of people who get off it and get back on it, even with these waits, is still quite large. It's way more than VR glasses.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

I hear you. But people don't care about different types of fuel. Or science for that matter (I have two degrees in chemistry believe me I know!)

People decide what civic virtue is from shows similar to Entertianment Tonight as well...

Should we keep listening to the band as the ship breaks up under us? Or maybe fight back with some grey matter and expectations?

 

[umichigan10]

Can I just say: I'm so impressed with George4's comments on Epcot here that I feel like a 13 year old girl front row at a Bieber concert...

 

[jade1]

It's likely insane amounts of money are being made in magic kingdoms and not so much in the others...

 

[George4]

The problem with the financials In the report is that it isn't segregated by location...so you have no idea what is costing them and what is raking...

Now Disneyland, wdw, and Paris fall in those numbers.

It's likely insane amounts of money are being made in magic kingdoms and not so much in the others...

So that kinda coin in Epcot may be hard to take. The speculation was it took 20 years to pay for it in the first place because it costs so damn much to build and operate...maybe more. Wall st likes debt but only a little bit if it...

And my somewhat educated take is EPCOT and AK are much heavier lb for lb on operational costs...so that's another wrinkle.

Look at it a different way, because I think you are correct that the bulk of the coin is made in MK. What if we could actually spread out the visitors in all four parks relatively evenly because people wanted to visit all of them for a full day or more? What if we could spend a chunk to make EPCOT appealing to younger kids because there was stuff for them to do other than walk really far, so that they were as interested in visiting it as they were in MK? I don't love IP for the sake of IP, but Ratatouille in France, that might work. Add something to the countries that already have ride pavilions. To me Mexico is just loud and brash and a little bit silly, but don't change it initially. Re-open Wonders of Life and reinvigorate Imagination - no buildings to build, so maybe not as expensive to do. All of sudden, we start to bring kids back to the park. Take Innoventions spaces, and give us a tour of Wall-E's ship, or something else futuristic, but with a relevant IP. I get that the old idea really won't work any longer. Now take 2-5,000 people per day out of MK because they have nothing else to do, and put the in EPCOT. Increase chance of selling something to them because they are seeing something different than MK merchandise. What if through a 7 attraction addition, you could create the same opportunity in AK. DHS seems to be going in the right direction, but they are just replacing things that have been removed, so I think they have a ways to go, and probably don't have the space to really add much. We are probably relegated to a 1/2 day to almost a full day with little need to repeat.

The goal should be for each park to offer a unique experience that makes people want to go there for more than a day. That makes the week long vacation worth it, and if there really is that much to do, there is more compulsion to come back year after year. That also creates more future revenue for the company, rather than ticking people off with the current "too expensive to stand in line". It also would work to spread people more evenly between at least 3 of the parks.

That is a lot of up front money, and I get that, but if they had spent the requisite $.5-1 billion per year keeping the parks up to date for the last 20 years, they wouldn't be in this boat. Glad that they've spent 3 billion in the past 5 years, but they are still behind by A LOT. This is why local parks add an attraction almost every year. You need to do that to keep people coming back. Disney can rotate that between the 4 in Orlando, but they need to be consistent.

 

[jade1]

...so...those other segments HAVE to receive investment because they are gonna HAVE to be exploited for more profits and fairly soon.

Exactly-great news for WDW.

 

[George4]

I hear you. But people don't care about different types of fuel. Or science for that matter (I have two degrees in chemistry believe me I know!)

I disagree, teens are fascinated by this. I teach high school (not science), and they are fascinated when I talk to them about science things when they can just learn and not have a test at the end. They ask questions, they come up with other ideas. Now, you can't just preach in EPCOT, I get that, but you can find a way to blend the two. I have seen great things (and bad) come out of Imagineering, and I wonder if the bigger issue is that they aren't being given these challenges to even try. The last 3 big expansions all seemed to be scaled back by the budget guru's at the last stage rather than going with Imagineering's plan, and then we all comment that the addition comes up short. I don't think that we can't, I think its that we haven't really tried. Again, make it 90% about the fun, but the 10% can still be there. Even 80/20 probably still works well.

 

[George4]

I have no desire to go in it. Think I want to hear a sales pitch for something they raised the price of 100% in my 10 years of owning it?

Nope...not looking to "flip that hotel room"

Free cookies, the occasional chip bag, sales pitch stuff lying around, but they never said word one to us about it. Oh, and did I mention that they have actual Mr. Pibb on tap? Better than a Coke.

Last comment and this one were intended mostly as sarcasm. WE just had to see it, and on a 97 degree day, it was quite pleasant. I'd rather see it as the Imagination Station 1,000 times over though.

 

[dlavender]

Look at it a different way, because I think you are correct that the bulk of the coin is made in MK. What if we could actually spread out the visitors in all four parks relatively evenly because people wanted to visit all of them for a full day or more? What if we could spend a chunk to make EPCOT appealing to younger kids because there was stuff for them to do other than walk really far, so that they were as interested in visiting it as they were in MK? I don't love IP for the sake of IP, but Ratatouille in France, that might work. Add something to the countries that already have ride pavilions. To me Mexico is just loud and brash and a little bit silly, but don't change it initially. Re-open Wonders of Life and reinvigorate Imagination - no buildings to build, so maybe not as expensive to do. All of sudden, we start to bring kids back to the park. Take Innoventions spaces, and give us a tour of Wall-E's ship, or something else futuristic, but with a relevant IP. I get that the old idea really won't work any longer. Now take 2-5,000 people per day out of MK because they have nothing else to do, and put the in EPCOT. Increase chance of selling something to them because they are seeing something different than MK merchandise. What if through a 7 attraction addition, you could create the same opportunity in AK. DHS seems to be going in the right direction, but they are just replacing things that have been removed, so I think they have a ways to go, and probably don't have the space to really add much. We are probably relegated to a 1/2 day to almost a full day with little need to repeat.

The goal should be for each park to offer a unique experience that makes people want to go there for more than a day. That makes the week long vacation worth it, and if there really is that much to do, there is more compulsion to come back year after year. That also creates more future revenue for the company, rather than ticking people off with the current "too expensive to stand in line". It also would work to spread people more evenly between at least 3 of the parks.

That is a lot of up front money, and I get that, but if they had spent the requisite $.5-1 billion per year keeping the parks up to date for the last 20 years, they wouldn't be in this boat. Glad that they've spent 3 billion in the past 5 years, but they are still behind by A LOT. This is why local parks add an attraction almost every year. You need to do that to keep people coming back. Disney can rotate that between the 4 in Orlando, but they need to be consistent.

I agree with pretty much all of this.

My family is guilty of giving most of our time to MK. IMO, its the only complete park, and the only one that is really difficult to do everything in 1 day. If we have 4 park days, at least 2 are going to MK. My kids, ages 8,5, and 3, can't really enjoy EPCOT like they can MK. Adding the Ratatouille ride to France will help. But redoing Innovations, getting the Imagination pavilion up and going, doing what you mention, definitely brings it back to a full day, and an attractive option.

I've been dissapointed in EPCOT for the last 10 years or so. Test Track did nothing for me, Soarin was a bust duck. Getting Remy in will be a step in the right direction. But it will be a band aid if they don't round it out with major overhauls in the empty spaces.

 

[pkrieger2287]

Look at it a different way, because I think you are correct that the bulk of the coin is made in MK. What if we could actually spread out the visitors in all four parks relatively evenly because people wanted to visit all of them for a full day or more? What if we could spend a chunk to make EPCOT appealing to younger kids because there was stuff for them to do other than walk really far, so that they were as interested in visiting it as they were in MK? I don't love IP for the sake of IP, but Ratatouille in France, that might work. Add something to the countries that already have ride pavilions. To me Mexico is just loud and brash and a little bit silly, but don't change it initially. Re-open Wonders of Life and reinvigorate Imagination - no buildings to build, so maybe not as expensive to do. All of sudden, we start to bring kids back to the park. Take Innoventions spaces, and give us a tour of Wall-E's ship, or something else futuristic, but with a relevant IP. I get that the old idea really won't work any longer. Now take 2-5,000 people per day out of MK because they have nothing else to do, and put the in EPCOT. Increase chance of selling something to them because they are seeing something different than MK merchandise. What if through a 7 attraction addition, you could create the same opportunity in AK. DHS seems to be going in the right direction, but they are just replacing things that have been removed, so I think they have a ways to go, and probably don't have the space to really add much. We are probably relegated to a 1/2 day to almost a full day with little need to repeat.

The goal should be for each park to offer a unique experience that makes people want to go there for more than a day. That makes the week long vacation worth it, and if there really is that much to do, there is more compulsion to come back year after year. That also creates more future revenue for the company, rather than ticking people off with the current "too expensive to stand in line". It also would work to spread people more evenly between at least 3 of the parks.

That is a lot of up front money, and I get that, but if they had spent the requisite $.5-1 billion per year keeping the parks up to date for the last 20 years, they wouldn't be in this boat. Glad that they've spent 3 billion in the past 5 years, but they are still behind by A LOT. This is why local parks add an attraction almost every year. You need to do that to keep people coming back. Disney can rotate that between the 4 in Orlando, but they need to be consistent.

*Stand up and starts clapping*
Excellent comment!

 

[bladiator]

Another issue with upgrading a Disney park in any capacity is that the critique is hard and fast afterwards. Everyone says "let's just open up the WOL pavilion cause it's practically all still there", but in reality, if they don't rip every freaking piece of carpet and seating out of there and replace it with something new and hip and change the colors of practically everything, then it's going to be "I can't believe Disney open this piece of crap."

OH, you think you want WOL back real bad, but all we do is complain about the smell of the carpet in every old attraction, so then everything you could just open back up again ends up costing you $10 million. We partly do it to ourselves, methinks.

 

[umichigan10]

Another issue with upgrading a Disney park in any capacity is that the critique is hard and fast afterwards. Everyone says "let's just open up the WOL pavilion cause it's practically all still there", but in reality, if they don't rip every freaking piece of carpet and seating out of there and replace it with something new and hip and change the colors of practically everything, then it's going to be "I can't believe Disney open this piece of crap."

OH, you think you want WOL back real bad, but all we do is complain about the smell of the carpet in every old attraction, so then everything you could just open back up again ends up costing you $10 million. We partly do it to ourselves, methinks.

Things would definitely need to be upgraded (the cranium command would need sprucing and body Wars has been totally mothballed anyways) but the main area wouldn't be so bad. It gets used during festival season, but would need adequate signage and such

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Exactly-great news for WDW.

Right...until they want to be reimbursed for it...you know what that's like, right?

 

[umichigan10]

Right...until they want to be reimbursed for it...you know what that's like, right?

They're going to hit a glass ceiling with that. You talk about it a lot but they're going to absolutely burn themselves in the immediate future

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Look at it a different way, because I think you are correct that the bulk of the coin is made in MK. What if we could actually spread out the visitors in all four parks relatively evenly because people wanted to visit all of them for a full day or more? What if we could spend a chunk to make EPCOT appealing to younger kids because there was stuff for them to do other than walk really far, so that they were as interested in visiting it as they were in MK? I don't love IP for the sake of IP, but Ratatouille in France, that might work. Add something to the countries that already have ride pavilions. To me Mexico is just loud and brash and a little bit silly, but don't change it initially. Re-open Wonders of Life and reinvigorate Imagination - no buildings to build, so maybe not as expensive to do. All of sudden, we start to bring kids back to the park. Take Innoventions spaces, and give us a tour of Wall-E's ship, or something else futuristic, but with a relevant IP. I get that the old idea really won't work any longer. Now take 2-5,000 people per day out of MK because they have nothing else to do, and put the in EPCOT. Increase chance of selling something to them because they are seeing something different than MK merchandise. What if through a 7 attraction addition, you could create the same opportunity in AK. DHS seems to be going in the right direction, but they are just replacing things that have been removed, so I think they have a ways to go, and probably don't have the space to really add much. We are probably relegated to a 1/2 day to almost a full day with little need to repeat.

The goal should be for each park to offer a unique experience that makes people want to go there for more than a day. That makes the week long vacation worth it, and if there really is that much to do, there is more compulsion to come back year after year. That also creates more future revenue for the company, rather than ticking people off with the current "too expensive to stand in line". It also would work to spread people more evenly between at least 3 of the parks.

That is a lot of up front money, and I get that, but if they had spent the requisite $.5-1 billion per year keeping the parks up to date for the last 20 years, they wouldn't be in this boat. Glad that they've spent 3 billion in the past 5 years, but they are still behind by A LOT. This is why local parks add an attraction almost every year. You need to do that to keep people coming back. Disney can rotate that between the 4 in Orlando, but they need to be consistent.

Again...I don't disagree with your perceptions at all...

I don't trust the mananagement...as they have failed to balance out the crowds in wdw miserably.

Because they haven't been willing to spend what is necessary to make each stand out.

Is started with MGM (failed concept)...it continued with an incomplete AK...now it's the decay of Epcot...

They've not done it. Which is why all this money is going toward hybrid mgm/MK movie rides...

 

[lockedoutlogic]

They're going to hit a glass ceiling with that. You talk about it a lot but they're going to absolutely burn themselves in the immediate future

Are you speaking of the sabotage of their core clientele...which is the traditional upper middle class...because an outsider/suit is about to retire and has no sense of company legacy?

...that's been tiptoed around for a few days here...and like Voldemort is present in all things...

 

[umichigan10]

Are you speaking of the sabotage of their core clientele...which is the traditional upper middle class...because an outsider/suit is about to retire and has no sense of company legacy?

...that's been tiptoed around for a few days here...and like Voldemort is present in all things...

Precisely. I also think uncle Bob prefers the moniker "he-who-must-not-be-named"

 

[GaryDis]

other than walk really far

Bring back the double decker buses. (I may have suggested that already.). Or maybe have some self driving cars shuttling people from the center of Innoventions to the American building.

Come to think of it, if you could put self-driving technology into ECVs, you could eliminate the complaints about banged up ankles. Though you might get complaints from riders about the jerkiness when the driving intelligence brakes every time someone steps in front.

 

[jade1]

They're going to hit a glass ceiling with that. You talk about it a lot but they're going to absolutely burn themselves in the immediate future

Yep, without the ESPN gravy train they have to be more in tune (honest) with what makes the profit. Can't simply jack the prices and have too few guests show up.

Like I said earlier-market will drive it, now more than ever.