Enthusiastic about Genie+ touring

[MikeandReneePlus5]

I agree with the premise that Genie+ and LL is meant to reduce wait times for everyone. And yes there will be a cost to that new efficiency.

 

[dez1978]

Genie+ is $15 per day. Why would you buy FOP every dingle day of a trip?
so Genie+ for a family of 4, for 5 days is $300. Not $1,000. If you’re onsite, you can do all the pay attractions during morning Early Entry with low wait.

I feel like you are being deliberately obtuse here. At every single park there will be rides that to get the LL you will have to pay for. So in order to get the equivalent of a fast pass for all the rides you will have to pay for at least 1 ride per park on top of the $15 for the g+. Do you really think you are going to get SM and SDMT in 30 min? Not likely, so you will pay for 1. Regardless of what park you are at. And again When I talk about 1000 I am talking about my family of 8, not a family of 4. So in order to do all of the things, you will likely pay for at least 1 LL per park on top of G +. And at dynamic pricing, I'm sure on the days that it is really needed, it's going to be atleast 15/pp per ride. So let me math for you. 15x8=120 120 x5 days=600 just for g= for 5 days. then add in 1 LL per day. Even at a modest prediction of $10pp/per ride thats $80 per day. 80x5=400. 600 for g+ plus 400 for LL =1000. And I'm sorry that in your multiple trips you weren't able to get more than 1 good fp a day, but read these boards. Most ppl don't seem to have that problem on a reg basis

 

[MikeandReneePlus5]

I feel like you are being deliberately obtuse here. At every single park there will be rides that to get the LL you will have to pay for. So in order to get the equivalent of a fast pass for all the rides you will have to pay for at least 1 ride per park on top of the $15 for the g+. Do you really think you are going to get SM and SDMT in 30 min? Not likely, so you will pay for 1. Regardless of what park you are at. And again When I talk about 1000 I am talking about my family of 8, not a family of 4. So in order to do all of the things, you will likely pay for at least 1 LL per park on top of G +. And at dynamic pricing, I'm sure on the days that it is really needed, it's going to be atleast 15/pp per ride. So let me math for you. 15x8=120 120 x5 days=600 just for g= for 5 days. then add in 1 LL per day. Even at a modest prediction of $10pp/per ride thats $80 per day. 80x5=400. 600 for g+ plus 400 for LL =1000. And I'm sorry that in your multiple trips you weren't able to get more than 1 good fp a day, but read these boards. Most ppl don't seem to have that problem on a reg basis

Well thats' $125 per person for 5 days worth of fastpasses for all rides and what hopefully will be no long lines at all for you. Not ideal, I agree, but not awful.

 

[Airb330]

Yes, we do know. Because... math.

I can do math, of number of guests and availability. I can also talk based on experience with old FP and with MaxPass.

Again, this is all a guess on your part to make G+ "better." Anyone can make numbers up to make the "math" work. In the long run I do think Disney is attempting to make lines shorter for most rides but also to increase revenue. G+ won't be better for everyone who pays for it than FP+ and obviously it'll be worse for those who choose not to pay. Standby lines aren't going to suddenly move faster with G+, because we've seen how standby works with 100% of the line dedicated to it since summer 2020 (it can still be 60+ for Space Mountain for example).

And I'm sorry that in your multiple trips you weren't able to get more than 1 good fp a day, but read these boards. Most ppl don't seem to have that problem on a reg basis

Agree @dez1978 3 FP+ guaranteed usually meant at least 5 for us, including headliners which will now be IAS or standby.

 

[nkereina]

I feel like you are being deliberately obtuse here. At every single park there will be rides that to get the LL you will have to pay for. So in order to get the equivalent of a fast pass for all the rides you will have to pay for at least 1 ride per park on top of the $15 for the g+. Do you really think you are going to get SM and SDMT in 30 min? Not likely, so you will pay for 1. Regardless of what park you are at. And again When I talk about 1000 I am talking about my family of 8, not a family of 4. So in order to do all of the things, you will likely pay for at least 1 LL per park on top of G +. And at dynamic pricing, I'm sure on the days that it is really needed, it's going to be atleast 15/pp per ride. So let me math for you. 15x8=120 120 x5 days=600 just for g= for 5 days. then add in 1 LL per day. Even at a modest prediction of $10pp/per ride thats $80 per day. 80x5=400. 600 for g+ plus 400 for LL =1000. And I'm sorry that in your multiple trips you weren't able to get more than 1 good fp a day, but read these boards. Most ppl don't seem to have that problem on a reg basis

One thing I don't think you are considering is that we should see the "typical" standby wait times we knew in FP+ days decrease once Genie+/IAS rolls out. When everyone had access to FP+, it inflated standby wait times because standby queues were frequently paused to allow the many, many FP+ users to come through any given hour. I think the ratio was something like 9 FP+ guests to every 1 standby guest would move through. This inevitably made the standby queue slower. In the new model, I would expect the presumption is that fewer people will be purchasing Genie+/IAS and/or fewer return times will be available to even it out. By nature, fewer people will be moving through the Lightning Lanes resulting in the standby queue stopping at less frequent intervals. As such, the standby queue will move faster. I'm not saying standbys for headliner attractions will be walk-on by any means, but it still would be feasible to get on these rides with a reasonable wait in the standby queue - especially if you hit it at rope drop.

 

[MikeandReneePlus5]

One thing I don't think you are considering is that we should see the "typical" standby wait times we knew in FP+ days decrease once Genie+/IAS rolls out. When everyone had access to FP+, it inflated standby wait times because standby queues were frequently paused to allow the many, many FP+ users to come through any given hour. I think the ratio was something like 9 FP+ guests to every 1 standby guest would move through. This inevitably made the standby queue slower. In the new model, I would expect the presumption is that fewer people will be purchasing Genie+/IAS and/or fewer return times will be available to even it out. By nature, fewer people will be moving through the Lightning Lanes resulting in the standby queue stopping at less frequent intervals. As such, the standby queue will move faster. I'm not saying standbys for headliner attractions will be walk-on by any means, but it still would be feasible to get on these rides with a reasonable wait in the standby queue - especially if you hit it at rope drop.

Yes agree.

I think we can surmise FP+ wasn't working well in that SB lines grew, as you note. Otherwise they would have just slapped a $15 or $20 price tag on FP+ and called it a day.

The idea of Genie+ is to scrap FP+ and go back to a modified form of same day FP access. But it will be better than the old version of FP - because it throttles demand a little further from the old paper FP days so there should be more of them.

All of this - FP+, Genie+, Virtual Queues, LL - is an effort to get the most people through the most queues in the shortest time so they are

A) Happy and
B) Able to spend more time shopping/eating/buying things

 

[dez1978]

One thing I don't think you are considering is that we should see the "typical" standby wait times we knew in FP+ days decrease once Genie+/IAS rolls out. When everyone had access to FP+, it inflated standby wait times because standby queues were frequently paused to allow the many, many FP+ users to come through any given hour. I think the ratio was something like 9 FP+ guests to every 1 standby guest would move through. This inevitably made the standby queue slower. In the new model, I would expect the presumption is that fewer people will be purchasing Genie+/IAS and/or fewer return times will be available to even it out. By nature, fewer people will be moving through the Lightning Lanes resulting in the standby queue stopping at less frequent intervals. As such, the standby queue will move faster. I'm not saying standbys for headliner attractions will be walk-on by any means, but it still would be feasible to get on these rides with a reasonable wait in the standby queue - especially if you hit it at rope drop.

In all fairness, if you listen to people on here they will swear up and down, on their grandmothers grave that FP+ did NOT increase standby time. So using that theory, then not having it and having g+ would not reduce standby times either.

Does maxpass at DL increase/decrease standby times? Bc this is basically maxpass, with an added cost of LL. But at least maxpass included photos for that $10/per day.

I honestly really don't hate the idea of g+. And I really hope that OP is right about how wonderful it will be. My biggest gripe is that it doesn't include the rides that people really want to go on, and that they won't tell us how much those rides will be on top of what you already paid. And really my biggest argument in this thread is that OP cant understand why people are upset about it. Thats like saying you can't understand why ppl are upset that only deluxe guests get extra evening hours. Or if all this g+/LL was included with a deluxe stay but cost extra for everyone else and saying I don't understand why ppl are mad, you could choose to pay to stay deluxe too! Heck, since I have DVC I'd be absolutely delighted with this system if it was included with deluxe stays like how UO does w/ express pass. But if it was, I could absolutely understand why people who don't have DVC or can't stay deluxe would be upset.

 

[Disneylover99]

One thing I don't think you are considering is that we should see the "typical" standby wait times we knew in FP+ days decrease once Genie+/IAS rolls out. When everyone had access to FP+, it inflated standby wait times because standby queues were frequently paused to allow the many, many FP+ users to come through any given hour. I think the ratio was something like 9 FP+ guests to every 1 standby guest would move through. This inevitably made the standby queue slower. In the new model, I would expect the presumption is that fewer people will be purchasing Genie+/IAS and/or fewer return times will be available to even it out. By nature, fewer people will be moving through the Lightning Lanes resulting in the standby queue stopping at less frequent intervals. As such, the standby queue will move faster. I'm not saying standbys for headliner attractions will be walk-on by any means, but it still would be feasible to get on these rides with a reasonable wait in the standby queue - especially if you hit it at rope drop.

My guess is that yes, fewer people will be using the Genie+ queue. But they'll want/need to move these lines faster than the old fp lines because people are now paying for this service. They'll want positive feedback from those who decide to purchase. Disney will no doubt change around their ratios on each ride to find their sweet spot of trying to satisfy the people paying and those in standby. I don't think we'll really know what standby wait times will be like until this rolls out. I have a feeling that for the most part, standby lines will have similar waits when there was fp.

 

[RoseGold]

It would also help if Disney wouldn't be so coy with the details. They announce it and than vanish...like a fart in church. Just tell us exactly how it works, how much for the add on rides, which rides are included and which are add on etc etc. They create their own negative buzz and drama by not putting it all out there.

Yes, there is a lot of farting going on here. Magical express, EMH, fast pass, annual pass. The headlines about money grubbing and nickel and dining have just been brutal.

I can only hope they plan to cover the farts by bursting into song with the AP announcements this week or next week.

 

[RoseGold]

I have a feeling that for the most part, standby lines will have similar waits when there was fp.

estimates were 70-80% capacity were allocated to fast pass. So maybe standby lines will actually move, like they did during COVID.

 

[havoc315]

Again, this is all a guess on your part to make G+ "better." Anyone can make numbers up to make the "math" work. In the long run I do

But my numbers aren’t made up. They are based on the real ride capacity and past allocation.
They aren’t guesses. They are real numbers.

 

[MakiraMarlena]

I'm waiting to see if having fee based, one at a time Lightning Lane use helps the standby lines. FP+ was terrible for standby lines.

 

[meremac]

I think those of us that have experienced MaxPass can see the potential benefits a little better, and its easier to visualize the potential residual benefits.

^^^This! I have only been to DL once as an adult, but I found MaxPass to be far superior to FP+ at WDW. Much of my excitement about Genie+ is precisely because of how similar it seems to MaxPass. That being said, there are some distinct differences too and until this actually rolls out, it's going to be impossible to predict how similar it will actually be. I'm looking forward to seeing how this all works in practice!

 

[sagosto]

I agree with the premise that Genie+ and LL is meant to reduce wait times for everyone. And yes there will be a cost to that new efficiency.

It's not 'new'. It's been there for a long time. The 'cost' aspect is new though.

 

[Disneylover99]

estimates were 70-80% capacity were allocated to fast pass. So maybe standby lines will actually move, like they did during COVID.

Maybe they'll move. But I'm not just sure if it will improve the standby wait times. There will be more people in standby (than the fp days) if many choose not to buy this and the ones that do choose to buy this will probably be trying to maximize their rides all day to get their moneys worth.

 

[Sinder]

$200 for a day is actually LESS than paying for park hopping for a day, for a party of 4. It's less than dinner at a Signature restaurant for a park of 3-4.
And actually.. in my example at AK, you were paying $15 per person -- So a family of 4 was paying $60, not $200.

Yes, Disney World is EXPENSIVE. $200 is not "nothing." But park tickets at $120-$200 per day is expensive. Hotel rooms of $300 to $1,000 per night are expensive. Disney World is expensive. In the context of all the other Disney expenses, $60-$200 is not a huge expense.

And guess what -- You don't have to purchase it. Just like you don't have to eat in signature restaurants. Just like you don't have to buy parkhoppers. Don't have to purchase a VIP tour.

I think you mean we didn't have to purchase it before because giving out fast passes was always free. (I know it wasn't from the very beginning but it was for every single trip I have taken with my family in the last 20 years). I don't spend thousands of dollars to get there and spend most of my time in long lines, so if I am going to enjoy my vacation then that means using some sort of fast pass to at least get on the rides that are IMO the most important to me to ride during my trip. What was nice was that Disney offered that service without an added cost. Now it is something that would have to be budgeted for, much like things you mentioned above. However for many, private tours and signature restaurants aren't something that they feel they need to do on a theme park vacation. Riding attractions is, and I'm willing to bet it is the single most important thing to the majority of guests.
So not liking Genie + has nothing to do with being apprehensive to change, it's about having more of that Disney"magic" taken away and being replaced with a typical theme-park money grab.


But to keep up that enthusiasm, we should thank Disney for now allowing us to spend another $1000 on our vacation to not have to stand in long SB lines in all 4 parks the whole week we are there.
Thank you Disney for not letting a chance go by to milk even more money out of us!

 

[havoc315]

I think you mean we didn't have to purchase it before because giving out fast passes was always free. (I know it wasn't from the very beginning but it was for every single trip I have taken with my family in the last 20 years). I don't spend thousands of dollars to get there and spend most of my time in long lines, so if I am going to enjoy my vacation then that means using some sort of fast pass to at least get on the rides that are IMO the most important to me to ride during my trip. What was nice was that Disney offered that service without an added cost. Now it is something that would have to be budgeted for, much like things you mentioned above. However for many, private tours and signature restaurants aren't something that they feel they need to do on a theme park vacation. Riding attractions is, and I'm willing to bet it is the single most important thing to the majority of guests.
So not liking Genie + has nothing to do with being apprehensive to change, it's about having more of that Disney"magic" taken away and being replaced with a typical theme-park money grab.


But to keep up that enthusiasm, we should thank Disney for now allowing us to spend another $1000 on our vacation to not have to stand in long SB lines in all 4 parks the whole week we are there.
Thank you Disney for not letting a chance go by to milk even more money out of us!

Here is what I think you and many others are missing. Yes, you're losing a free cruddy system, but it's being replaced by a cheap excellent system.

Especially at DHS and Epcot, you were getting only 1 good FP per day. How often did I have to accept a FP for Muppetvision or other attractions where it was totally worthless. Unless you had a small party during low crowds, and went through lots of FP refreshing, you were stuck with only 1 tier-1 ride. And at Animal Kingdom, it was often impossible to get FOP unless you were onsite for more than 4 days and you booked it for the end of your trip.
Now, you should be able to get a same day line-skip for every attraction, for a fee.

So they took away the free hamburger, and they replaced it with Filet Mignon (G+) and lobster (LL) for a fee.
1 good FP, booked 60+ days in advance, for "free".. or unlimited spontaneous same-day FPs for a fee.....
A trade that I will enthusiastically embrace.

 

[JZCubed]

I can do math, of number of guests and availability. I can also talk based on experience with old FP and with MaxPass.

You are right, we won't know for certain until it actually takes effect.

So to all the people freaking out about how it's going to be awful -- They should take a breath and see how it works out.

If it really ends up that you end up paying $15, and can't get more than 1 or 2 decent rides per day with the system, I'll be the first to call for Disney to fix the system.
If it's not better than FP+, then it will be a major fail.

But there is every reason to believe this could be a major improvement, so why not give it a chance?

-- You said, "I can do math,...."

So can Disney.

Disney controls wait times & ride capacity - and Park capacity. They only need to provide as much capacity as they require (which is why Park Reservations will be permanent).

If both Genie & Genie+ are efficient at moving crowds to rides & attractions with lower wait times, then the result is intended to be those rides & attractions will no longer have lower wait times. If Genie 'works', then Disney can increase Park capacity. Who wins with that?

Regarding paid Lightening Lanes access - this is effectively the equivalent of the sports bookie running the game. Math!

Think of it this way - do ya' think Disney will offer more 'free' Boarding Groups if they don't 'sell' all the Lightening Passes at whatever price they extort - or will Disney lower capacity if not enough passes are sold?

-- You also said, "If it's not better than FP+, then it will be a major fail."
Better for whom?

Plenty of folks on this Thread preferred making reservations months in advance - Genie will not be better for them or folks needing to awake daily while on vacation to make Park plans.

FWIW, many families were just fine with 3-FP+ because that encompassed enough daily Park time. If folks can obtain only as many GeniePasses as they did FP+ (because that's all they wanted anyway) - paying is not better than 'free'.

And you cannot obtain 'free' Genie for 7Dwarfs and many others that were previously free. Not sure how paying is better than free.

Annual Pass holders lose in many ways.

That's a short list of folks who will not likely find Genie to be better.

In conclusion - Disney controls wait times now. Disney will control wait times in the future. Only in the future, some people will pay for the privilege of what was previously free.....with no promise from Disney that wait times will improve.

Don't get misunderstand me, increasing prices this way should lower demand (and shorten standby wait times in the short-run), but does nothing to save time for the myriad of people who previously had the same self-guided touring plans for free.

 

[Airb330]

Here is what I think you and many others are missing. Yes, you're losing a free cruddy system, but it's being replaced by a cheap excellent system.

Sigh... We don't know G+/LL will be an excellent system .FP+ was not cruddy for all, but I acknowledge it didn't work well for some, including yourself.

1 good FP, booked 60+ days in advance, for "free".. or unlimited spontaneous same-day FPs for a fee.....

I routinely got FOP, Everest and Safaris at AK. . I also routinely got Space, Splash and 7 Dwarves at MK. That is not 1 good FP. I am sorry FP+ didn't work for you, but it worked for a lot of us DVC/AP holders.

 

[dez1978]

Here is what I think you and many others are missing. Yes, you're losing a free cruddy system, but it's being replaced by a cheap excellent system.

Especially at DHS and Epcot, you were getting only 1 good FP per day. How often did I have to accept a FP for Muppetvision or other attractions where it was totally worthless. Unless you had a small party during low crowds, and went through lots of FP refreshing, you were stuck with only 1 tier-1 ride. And at Animal Kingdom, it was often impossible to get FOP unless you were onsite for more than 4 days and you booked it for the end of your trip.
Now, you should be able to get a same day line-skip for every attraction, for a fee.

So they took away the free hamburger, and they replaced it with Filet Mignon (G+) and lobster (LL) for a fee.
1 good FP, booked 60+ days in advance, for "free".. or unlimited spontaneous same-day FPs for a fee.....
A trade that I will enthusiastically embrace.

I got fp for TOT, SDD, RNR, and TSM all in one day. Thats more than 1. I've gotten Frozen, Soaring, and Test track all in the same day. Every time, with 8 people. So I'm not getting anything more than I did before, except now I'm paying a lot more for it.


Wait. Are you really Chapek here undercover trying to convince us that your new idea to make more money is really an amazing alternative to the free thing you already offered that worked well?