Enforcement of 14 yr old restriction

[wilkeliza]

Sorry that part I am not redrawing as I saw the paperwork from Disney. This was 15 years ago.

AKK

OK 15 years ago maybe they were saying that but I worked there until 2013 and that was never mentioned. It was actually treated as the internet hoax it is. Originally you said it is so easy now but then change it to something that was 15 years ago. I have a feeling your friend showed you something that people produce in order to sale their child protection services and training. They are faked documents that sole purpose is to scare parents into the potential for child abductions. They ignore the fact that stranger abductions almost never happen. There is still a very very slim change your child is going to abducted by a strangers.

 

[Magpie]

Well you do as you see fit...........the point is this is very possible.........If you set your child's safety on that its unlikely, fine. We would not take the risk.

AKK

The point is, it's NOT very possible. In fact, that's the whole crux of the argument.

Routinely protecting your children from things that are not very possible (like rogue meteors or kidnappers in a theme park who will dye their hair in the bathroom and change their clothes, but not their shoes) is a good way to raise fearful adults who believe that not-very-possible things happen all the time, and who think they should live their lives accordingly.

(Important note: The theme park scenario, of course, doesn't define anyone's parenting style - as I said earlier, there's no right or wrong decision in this particular case).

Fear of the not-very-possible leads to people in quiet suburbs building "panic rooms" in their basement, because they're afraid of home invasions. Or opening fire on a lost Japanese tourist because he knocked on their door to ask direction. Or shooting through their front door at a black teenager, because her car had broken down, her phone had died, and she knocked on the wrong door to ask for help. Or refusing to answer their door when a lost, distressed child is on their doorstep, because they've heard that "bad guys" use small children to get unsuspecting people to open their doors.

Rationality is SO important, if we're all going to live together in a civil society.

(Exception made, of course, if you are presently living in a high crime, economically depressed area and you've recently ticked off the local drug lord. Then it IS actually entirely rational to be paranoid about the safety of your children.)

 

[gwynne]

Never saw that............I withdraw my points. However The story I told about Disney seciurity was true.


I do not change my feeling on whether a 14 year should be responsible for younger children at a theme park, etc.

AKK

It's certainly true that some 14yo's are not emotionally equipped to be personally responsible for themselves or others. On the other hand, there are many who handle responsibility just fine every day. Blanket statements that assume all 14yo's lack competence in handling responsibility just aren't accurate.

 

[Tonka's Skipper]

OK 15 years ago maybe they were saying that but I worked there until 2013 and that was never mentioned. It was actually treated as the internet hoax it is. Originally you said it is so easy now but then change it to something that was 15 years ago. I have a feeling your friend showed you something that people produce in order to sale their child protection services and training. They are faked documents that sole purpose is to scare parents into the potential for child abductions. They ignore the fact that stranger abductions almost never happen. There is still a very very slim change your child is going to abducted by a strangers.

These were friends, whose duagther had just returned from a 3 month study/work group. They were not selling anything and it was part of the study materials they received.

AKK

 

[Magpie]

These were friends, whose duagther had just returned from a 3 month study/work group. They were not selling anything and it was part of the study materials they received.

AKK

Well, it's too bad that 15 years ago they were using internet rumours as study materials. I'm glad to hear they've got better materials now!

Fifteen years ago (my kids are now 18 and 20), I was using this fellow's books as a guide on how to teach my kids the skills they needed to keep themselves safe:

https://www.amazon.ca/Protecting-Gift-Keeping-Children-Teenagers/dp/0440509009

I highly recommend it to everyone, regardless of whether you currently have children or not.

 

[Tonka's Skipper]

The point is, it's NOT very possible. In fact, that's the whole crux of the argument.

Routinely protecting your children from things that are not very possible (like rogue meteors or kidnappers in a theme park who will dye their hair in the bathroom and change their clothes, but not their shoes) is a good way to raise fearful adults who believe that not-very-possible things happen all the time, and who think they should live their lives accordingly.

(Important note: The theme park scenario, of course, doesn't define anyone's parenting style - as I said earlier, there's no right or wrong decision in this particular case).

Fear of the not-very-possible leads to people in quiet suburbs building "panic rooms" in their basement, because they're afraid of home invasions. Or opening fire on a lost Japanese tourist because he knocked on their door to ask direction. Or shooting through their front door at a black teenager, because her car had broken down, her phone had died, and she knocked on the wrong door to ask for help. Or refusing to answer their door when a lost, distressed child is on their doorstep, because they've heard that "bad guys" use small children to get unsuspecting people to open their doors.

Rationality is SO important, if we're all going to live together in a civil society.

(Exception made, of course, if you are presently living in a high crime, economically depressed area and you've recently ticked off the local drug lord. Then it IS actually entirely rational to be paranoid about the safety of your children.)

The kidnapping was only one possible thing that could happen, accidents, getting lost, any number of things. Yes many things a 14 year old can handle. However if their is a major injury , or the younger child is lost for a long time, there can be extreme emotional issues.

I stand by my position, a 14 year old watching young 10 or younger yet child in a busy theme park or other venue of some type is not right. This is the parents or adults job.

The more responsible the 14 year old is, the more to heart they would take a harm coming to the younger child. I would not subject that kind of thing on the teen. Home. local, a whole different thing.


AKK

 

[mjkacmom]

The point is, it's NOT very possible. In fact, that's the whole crux of the argument.

Routinely protecting your children from things that are not very possible (like rogue meteors or kidnappers in a theme park who will dye their hair in the bathroom and change their clothes, but not their shoes) is a good way to raise fearful adults who believe that not-very-possible things happen all the time, and who think they should live their lives accordingly.

(Important note: The theme park scenario, of course, doesn't define anyone's parenting style - as I said earlier, there's no right or wrong decision in this particular case).

Fear of the not-very-possible leads to people in quiet suburbs building "panic rooms" in their basement, because they're afraid of home invasions. Or opening fire on a lost Japanese tourist because he knocked on their door to ask direction. Or shooting through their front door at a black teenager, because her car had broken down, her phone had died, and she knocked on the wrong door to ask for help. Or refusing to answer their door when a lost, distressed child is on their doorstep, because they've heard that "bad guys" use small children to get unsuspecting people to open their doors.

Rationality is SO important, if we're all going to live together in a civil society.

(Exception made, of course, if you are presently living in a high crime, economically depressed area and you've recently ticked off the local drug lord. Then it IS actually entirely rational to be paranoid about the safety of your children.)

Or, people who are afraid to fly because they fear the plane crashing, who miss out on tons of travel experience. Disclaimer, I'm afraid to fly, but realize it's irrational, and fly anyway. BTW kids are more than twice as likely to die in a plane crash than get kidnapped...

 

[Tonka's Skipper]

Well, it's too bad that 15 years ago they were using internet rumours as study materials. I'm glad to hear they've got better materials now!

Fifteen years ago (my kids are now 18 and 20), I was using this fellow's books as a guide on how to teach my kids the skills they needed to keep themselves safe:

https://www.amazon.ca/Protecting-Gift-Keeping-Children-Teenagers/dp/0440509009

I highly recommend it to everyone, regardless of whether you currently have children or not.

15 years ago there was very little internet........AKK

 

[mjkacmom]

The kidnapping was only one possible thing that could happen, accidents, getting lost, any number of things. Yes many things a 14 year old can handle. However if their is a major injury , or the younger child is lost for a long time, there can be extreme emotional issues.

I stand by my position, a 14 year old watching young 10 or younger yet child in a busy theme park or other venue of some type is not right. This is the parents or adults job.

The more responsible the 14 year old is, the more to heart they would take a harm coming to the younger child. I would not subject that kind of thing on the teen. Home. local, a whole different thing.


AKK

So, you want to protect a teen from feeling bad? Why do we need to protect our kids from feeling bad, or sad, or frustrated, or angry, ir disappointed, or frightened? Real life won't. Parents have to prepare the child for the path, not the path for the child. All of these emotions help children to grow.

 

[Magpie]

The kidnapping was only one possible thing that could happen, accidents, getting lost, any number of things. Yes many things a 14 year old can handle. However if their is a major injury , or the younger child is lost for a long time, there can be extreme emotional issues.

I stand by my position, a 14 year old watching young 10 or younger yet child in a busy theme park or other venue of some type is not right. This is the parents or adults job.

The more responsible the 14 year old is, the more to heart they would take a harm coming to the younger child. I would not subject that kind of thing on the teen. Home. local, a whole different thing.


AKK

For the record, I would be having extreme emotional issues in those scenarios, too.

And I can see we will just have to disagree on what a parent's "job" is.

 

[Magpie]

15 years ago there was very little internet........AKK

Okay, perhaps they were using this book:

Mind you, fifteen years ago there was a LOT of internet. I remember routinely coming home from our morning playgroup, settling my toddlers in front of the TV with a snack and checking my favourite bulletin boards and news sites. I was online when the first news about 911 hit, and the CNN website crashed. That was 15 years ago!

Gosh, I feel old now...

 

[Tonka's Skipper]

So, you want to protect a teen from feeling bad? Why do we need to protect our kids from feeling bad, or sad, or frustrated, or angry, ir disappointed, or frightened? Real life won't. Parents have to prepare the child for the path, not the path for the child. All of these emotions help children to grow.

Only to the point its something that is not their responsibility. There is just to many things that can happen in a busy crowded theme part or other venue.

AKK

 

[Allison]

15 years ago there was very little internet........AKK

That is not the case.

 

[TXStormtrooper]

https://www.amazon.ca/Protecting-Gift-Keeping-Children-Teenagers/dp/0440509009

I highly recommend it to everyone, regardless of whether you currently have children or not.

Best book ever!!! I also recommend his book "The Gift of Fear" for every teenager or young adult, especially those going off to college or leaving home for the first time.

 

[Tonka's Skipper]

Okay, perhaps they were using this book:

Mind you, fifteen years ago there was a LOT of internet. I remember routinely coming home from our morning playgroup, settling my toddlers in front of the TV with a snack and checking my favourite bulletin boards and news sites. I was online when the first news about 911 hit, and the CNN website crashed. That was 15 years ago!

Gosh, I feel old now...

Don't feel old......I am old at 65..........There may have been bulletin boards and news sites....................but maybe the way to put it was not near the number of people or companies used it as today.

 

[Hibiscus]

Snopes was absolutely around 15 years ago. I was in high school, had my own personal homepage, and I distinctly remember reading Snopes with my friends. I don't know ANYONE who wasn't online in 2001.

 

[whiporee]

The interesting about this conversation is how the hyperbole of kidnapping took it over. Abductions aren't really the point; injuries and bad behavior are.

People -- kids -- can die at WDW. Not many, but it can happen, kds running and tripping and falling and hitting their head. or choking on a hot dog.

But forget death -- broken bones and sprains, or fights or bullying from other kids, all that stuff can happen. Or getting split up and the younger ones getting lost. Or kids just being jerks and screwing up the day for other guests, screaming or fighting or any other unsupervised behavior. Those are the realistic things that can happen, and if you're sending kids unsupervised, those are the things you risk at a much higher chance than abduction. Just because addiction or molestation are statistically unlikely to occur, that isn't the limit of risk.

 

[mom2rtk]

The interesting about this conversation is how the hyperbole of kidnapping took it over. Abductions aren't really the point; injuries and bad behavior are.

People -- kids -- can die at WDW. Not many, but it can happen, kds running and tripping and falling and hitting their head. or choking on a hot dog.

But forget death -- broken bones and sprains, or fights or bullying from other kids, all that stuff can happen. Or getting split up and the younger ones getting lost. Or kids just being jerks and screwing up the day for other guests, screaming or fighting or any other unsupervised behavior. Those are the realistic things that can happen, and if you're sending kids unsupervised, those are the things you risk at a much higher chance than abduction. Just because addiction or molestation are statistically unlikely to occur, that isn't the limit of risk.

And most of those things could have happened when I was babysitting at age 12.

We do our kids a disservice if we try to prevent them from encountering any risk. Because when you drop them off at college (and FTR, I did actually cross the threshold of his room when we helped him move in that day) they will need to know how to deal with what life throws at them. You won't be there to clear the path for them.

 

[wilkeliza]

And most of those things could have happened when I was babysitting at age 12.

We do our kids a disservice if we try to prevent them from encountering any risk. Because when you drop them off at college (and FTR, I did actually cross the threshold of his room when we helped him move in that day) they will need to know how to deal with what life throws at them. You won't be there to clear the path for them.

I can't tell you how many other students I met at college (I started in 2006 and ended in 2012) and on my college program who couldn't do anything for themselves. Some even told us how their mom's came to clean their room once a month before room inspections at their college! I am so glad I knew how to cook and wash clothes. I also knew that regular dish soap could not be used in the communal dish washer and no you can't throw dish soap in the washing machine if you forgot to buy detergent. It was also things like what type of OTC medicine to take if you had a sniffle and when you can wait to go to the school clinic the next day vs when you should go to the emergency room/call 911.

 

[Magpie]

The interesting about this conversation is how the hyperbole of kidnapping took it over. Abductions aren't really the point; injuries and bad behavior are.

People -- kids -- can die at WDW. Not many, but it can happen, kds running and tripping and falling and hitting their head. or choking on a hot dog.

But forget death -- broken bones and sprains, or fights or bullying from other kids, all that stuff can happen. Or getting split up and the younger ones getting lost. Or kids just being jerks and screwing up the day for other guests, screaming or fighting or any other unsupervised behavior. Those are the realistic things that can happen, and if you're sending kids unsupervised, those are the things you risk at a much higher chance than abduction. Just because addiction or molestation are statistically unlikely to occur, that isn't the limit of risk.

These last few are indeed realistic risks, which I would hope an average 14yo would be more than capable of dealing with. If your particular 14yo can't, and if your younger ones are incapable of understanding that they need to seek out a cast member (in a shop or in front of a ride) if they get lost, then you should definitely not allow your 14yo to babysit and you should probably leash your younger ones.

Every young person is different. As others have pointed out, there are college students who aren't capable of navigating the world independently either.

Cellphones, by the way, are a brilliant invention. "Mom, little Timmy fell down Cinderella's wishing well!" "Where are you?" "In an ambulance on our way to the Centra Care." "Okay, I'll meet you there!"