End of paper fps on jan 22 nd?

[Donut23]

Yeah...it doesn't quite add up for me either.

Everyone generally agrees that the whole idea of all this is to extract as much money as possible from every guest. I don't have a problem with that. It's up to me to make the choices that let that happen or not.

However, clearly they're not going to extract more money than they used to at the snack carts and gifts shops, etc. if guests are waiting in lines more than they used to. Even the emptiest of empty suits had to know this.

Still seems like something's missing from the equation. Hopefully, it starts to gain more clarity after legacy FP is gone completely and only the new system is in place.

People people people.

You don't think Uncle Bobby and the Suits are satisfied with only the additional 11% additional $$$$ we will spend when not using cash. Oh no! They have something even BETTER waiting for us!

Once the dust settles and the bugs have been worked out from the not so magic band program it will be time to introduce........

Fast Pass Packages!

Don't like your 3 tiered fast passes a day. Uncle Bobby feels your pain and for a nominal fee, we will have the privilege of buying additional past pass packages.

And the price of these fast pass packages will slowly rise each year along with park passes and the cost of the hotel rooms.

We are so lucky Uncle Bobby and the Suits care so much about us!

 

[lockedoutlogic]

In most cases, yes, same-day reservations will be very do-able. That's why the tiers exist--at least at Epcot and DHS. Attractions like Toy Story Mania, Test Track and Soarin don't have the daily rider capacity for all guests to be able to ride. The tiers force guests to choose between those--and several other options--most often leaving each at less than full capacity.

Does that seem right or appropriate to you?
Or do you think perhaps its a backward was to try to force people to stay for longer durations that they have felt they "deserved" after AK and has been pouting about ever since. I mean...they built half a park and then started cutting corners across the entire property...why arent the stupid guests increasing their 6.7 day stays to 9.8 days like they were expected to? Throw me a bone here.

anything, I think there may be some modest increase in standby line usage due to the limit of 3 FPs per guest. But that increase will be largely offset by time saved not dashing around to collect FP tickets and time no longer spent criss-crossing parks as the day revolves around uncertain FP return times. And many attractions will likely distribute fewer FPs (due to the 3 per guest limit) which results in faster-moving standby lines.

No offense at all ( i yield to your genius )...but i've seen you put this over and over again. Do you honestly think that that fastpass sprint was that big of a problem? I mean...who really does this...a couple of hundred/thousand at rope drop? The majority of the crowds (based on the internal tracking for 15 years) arrive between 9 and 12...that doesnt equate to "fast pass sprint". I think it a vocal but...small...minority who really slaps and complains about the struggles of fastpass kiosks. i'm guessing the matching tshirt/pin lanyard types..or tour groups.

agree...there does still seem to be some missing piece. With regard to shopping, we've all heard the line that FastPass was originally created to entice guests to spend more money by shopping or dining while waiting for ride times.
But I've often heard that this never really happened...that sales didn't spike after FP introduction...that guests mostly used those FP windows to ride other attractions via standby. Don't really know which version of that story is true though.

Well...if you believe what the management types said...oh say...12 or so years ago...
Yes...fastpass was put in as a giftshop driver. Not a government secret...everything since about 1985 was put in as a giftshop driver. its where the money is made.
And no...i don't think fast pass worked for that. If anything...it actually injected more freedom/leisure into the park...which is not good for sales.
It also might be that they sell cheaper and cheaper crap every single year. no analysis of that due to the asian free trade agreements. Why look at the results when its being begot so cheap. Just have to "re-educate the consumer
"...thats all.

consider this...one of the biggest complaints about the parks these days is that they are getting "more and more crowded." Well, one of the easiest ways to ease that crowding--or at least the appearance of it--is to get a few more people into the Standby lines. Crowds are something of an illusion because they're based upon what people see on park pathways and in shops. Consider what the original FP system was doing to "crowds" as people waited for their ride times. It creates more foot traffic (again, criss-crossing the parks to first grab the FP tickets and then to ride), you have more people sitting on benches, leaning against walls and camping-out at restaurant tables while waiting for their ride times. Shops were stuffed with browsers killing time.

I reject this. the parks arent pound for pound more crowded...in fact attendance increases are due to an expanding travel calendar for many...and guaranteed multiple annual trips by dvc (guilty)

The complaints are due to the ever diminishing virtue of patience. 2 hour waits were tolerated at WDW in the past. now 30 minutes are unacceptable. you see this everyday. wdw...if anything...is for the spoiled at heart.

used FP+ last month and it worked exactly as advertised. We picked our rides about 2 weeks in advance. Ended up making a single loop around each park (used it at MK and DHS), hitting our scheduled rides and filling-in with others that had short waits.

Honestly FP+ is everything I hoped it would be. (Although I wouldn't mind them raising the daily limit to 4 or 5 FPs.) It allowed us to make more efficient use of our time. We did everything we wanted to do, but in less time than without FP.

That said, I do keep waiting for the other shoe to drop, and some clear means of monetizing the system to appear. Perhaps it will be more FPs for Disney hotel guests (higher occupancy, eventually higher rates.) Perhaps they will offer some paid tier with more than 3 FPs per day. Whatever the case, it does seem like there's still an element missing.

I have also liked my one experience so far...because i don't HAVE to ride anything and i value the scenery and the food more...so that is goal #1. food is pushing it though...better start turning the quality up now that they've hooked people on that stupid plan and jacked the prices to oblivion. and the standardized bar menus...are you serious?!?!

digress...
I can think of a few ways that this might play out. Is it possible that an overall increase in lines (more on the bottom...maybe less on the top)...might be the goal?
doesnt that counter the "giftshop" plan? yes and no...perhaps they have multiple angles...giftshops being the greedy/easy one...but what if this is a setup for "experience" charges? as in princess pay personalized experiences...like meet and greet meets bibbidi bobbity boutique. what if for say...$30..your little princess can now book exclusive access to her favorite characters and rides...with much more freedom than the rigid "new normal"?
who wouldnt fall for that?
or "extreme mountain climbers" passes...all those extreme thrill rides whenever you want them?

wouldn't that data they collect help target pay packages to you? hmmm...

What i'm saying is that it might be more complicated than just fast pass purchase packages...perhaps

Or...as many have speculated...stupid sounding resort level fastpass bumps...
Disney's "Dream" Level packages, Disney's "Wishes" packages, Disney's "Fantasy" packages...

sounds like Hedonism..i know...but if it plays like this:
level one: value, expirable park hopper, mugs and food, and 4 picks
level two: moderate, expirable park hopper, dining, and 5
level three: deluxe, expirable park hopper, expanded dining/rec, and unlimited fp spots up to the daily maximum based on time...and of course a free dvc tour and a banana split.

wow...that's alot of guaranteed, non-refundable revenue that they can pay dividend on before you show up - aint it?

 

[tjkraz]

No offense at all ( i yield to your genius )...but i've seen you put this over and over again. Do you honestly think that that fastpass sprint was that big of a problem? I mean...who really does this...a couple of hundred/thousand at rope drop? The majority of the crowds (based on the internal tracking for 15 years) arrive between 9 and 12...that doesnt equate to "fast pass sprint". I think it a vocal but...small...minority who really slaps and complains about the struggles of fastpass kiosks. i'm guessing the matching tshirt/pin lanyard types..or tour groups.

Toy Story Mania is just one illustration but there are many similar examples at all of the parks. For instance, upon arrival at Epcot, first thing most people do is make the long trudge all the way through The Land pavilion to get a FP for Soarin. Then you walk from The Land to some other destination for standby rides. Maybe flop between Living Seas and Imagination pavilions. Then back to The Land to actually use the Fastpasses. Some people will actually criss-cross the park to get a Test Track FP as soon as they are able, and then return to Soarin.

At Hollywood Studios, you have attractions like Rock N Rollercoaster and Tower of Terror which are relatively isolated. Get FP for RnR. Even if you wait standby for ToT, chances are the RnR ride time will not have arrived yet. So you're left either killing time or crossing the park to do something else before later returning to RnR.

At Magic Kingdom, grab a FP for Space. Even on a slower day, you could do just about every meaningful ride in Tomorrowland and still not have the Space Mtn ride time arrive. So again, killing time or walking a long distance to do something else.

What the legacy FastPass system did was create inefficiencies all throughout a day at the park. Instead of moving from one attraction to the next in a relatively steady flow, it became a constant process of adjusting on-the-fly to whatever return times were issued. When you grab a FP ticket for Space Mountain at 11am and the return starts at 12:40pm, you're forced to ask "OK, how do I fill the next 2 hours and get myself back to Space Mountain without backtracking 3 times?" Rarely is there a simple, efficient answer to that situation.

If I were going to tour Epcot with FP+, it would probably go something like this:

1) Spaceship Earth FP+
2) Living Seas
3) Soarin FP+ and rest of The Land pavilion
4) Imagination
5) Test Track standby
6) Mission Space FP+

It's a steady flow with no backtracking or criss-crossing. The only noteworthy wait on an average day is Test Track standby, but given all of the time you've cumulatively saved by touring the park in a more efficient manner, I'd be surprised if you can't do MORE attractions in LESS time.

At DHS, it might be something like this:

1) RnR Standby
2) ToT FP+
3) Great Movie Ride
4) Toy Story Mania FP+
5) Muppetvision
6) Star Tours FP+

Fill-in with Indiana Jones, LMA or whatever as desired.

Getting back to your TSM comment, given that the attraction normally ran out of legacy FastPasses between 11am and noon, it's not just a few hundred people going out of their way to get FPs. It was pretty much EVERYONE who used FP on that attraction every single day. Reportedly FP usage can exceed 80% of all riders on some attractions, so we could be talking about 10,000 people per day--or at least a representative from each family--walking to the rear of the park solely to get a FastPass for that one attraction.

Similar things happen with Soarin, Test Track, Everest and Kilimanjaro Safari, just to name a few.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Yeah...thanks for the scenarios...but I do understand them.

I just don't think the killing time and "crisscross" was ever that big of a deal. Possibly with the exception of EPCOT.

If its your first trip... You'll want to do everything anyway...so the burden is diminished. If you've been there 75 times...really who cares? I haven't "grabbed a fast pass" for space mountain or rockin rollercoaster in years. And if we do happen to get it...we skip was doesn't fit in the course of the day.

I do see the problem with busy fastpass machines and return windows at the end of the day. That is tough...but if that happened, then the ride was busy... And you still got to avoid the line. Which was the only real point.

So now we can book out full days down to the minute (repulsive)...won't that be great?
Except during moderate-busy times...you're probably gonna have to stalk toy story mania on the Internet in advance...and if you don't it probably won't be available.
So now your choices are wait 90 minutes or not ride at all...that is where we're heading... Don't be fooled.

Better? Don't know yet. Like I said...something missing. More than likely an insulting up charge.

 

[pilferk]

And for off site guests, your run to tsmm fp line is now just replaced with a run to the fp+ line.

We were at dhs on Tuesday, the 14th.. Tot was having technical issues, I think. And there were a bunch of large tour groups. But fps were gone by 10 am for that ride.

We has booked our fp+ literally the day prior to them instituting tiering there, so we were all set.

But, had that not been true, we would have had a fp+ for tsmm for 910, and spent 35 min in line for RNR and 75 min in line for tot. This was right after we rode tsmm. And tot hit 120 min wait time by 11 am.

Again, I'm pretty sure tot was having tech issues, and were only running 1 to 2 shafts, at least that morning. I'm sure that was a big part of it. But still....

 

[tjkraz]

Yeah...thanks for the scenarios...but I do understand them.

I just don't think the killing time and "crisscross" was ever that big of a deal. Possibly with the exception of EPCOT.

Well, I can't speak to how big of a deal it is to the masses, but it always has been an irritant to me. And I don't see how 30 minutes in a Standby line is any worse than 30 minutes criss-crossing or backtracking to chase-down paper FPs.

Personally I'm beyond the phase where I feel obligated to do "everything" in a park...but I'm not so far removed that I don't remember what it was like. And it isn't just the t-shirt and lanyard crew who queuing-up for FPs at Soarin', TSM and others immediately after park opening.

If its your first trip... You'll want to do everything anyway...so the burden is diminished. If you've been there 75 times...really who cares?

There's a lot of middle ground between first visit and 75th visit.

Forget DVC members. There are over 25,000 overpriced hotel rooms at WDW. By and large, I don't believe people are paying those premium rates for rooms and park tickets, and adopting a philosophy of "eh, if I'm not near Space when my FP time arrives, I'll just skip it."

So now we can book out full days down to the minute (repulsive)...won't that be great?

3 attractions = booking days down to the minute? Lol.

Our family has a spring break trip coming up. Personally I had zero desire to make any plans in advance...but my 10 year old daughter took charge of planning and wants to pick FPs for every day. Why not? If things change, I'll drop any of those plans in a heartbeat.

Combined with the 2 dining reservations we made for an 8-day visit, our planning amounts to maybe 20 minutes. Big deal. I spent more time writing this message board reply.

Except during moderate-busy times...you're probably gonna have to stalk toy story mania on the Internet in advance...and if you don't it probably won't be available.
So now your choices are wait 90 minutes or not ride at all...that is where we're heading... Don't be fooled.

Are you going to eat those words when you're wrong?

TSM is in an attraction grouping with Rock N Rollercoaster, Fantasmic and BatB. Many people will chose the other attractions. Others won't book FP+ in advance. Still others may not be eligible to book FP+ in advance. With no allowance for park hopping, some DHS guests will use their daily FPs for another park.

I just scrolled through the next 30 days at DHS. Toy Story Mania is available every day except tomorrow..MLK holiday. Every other day, including President's Day, still has TSM available. I looked at the detail on a handful of days and there were many time blocks available.

I wouldn't bet on getting a same-day FP at noon. But for a non-holiday period, reserving days or weeks in advance is not likely to be necessary.

 

[pilferk]

Just to add some context, though, to the above post:

Dhs hasn't gone fp+ exclusive.

The changes are new enough, and not "mandatory" enough, so that their full effect is unlikely to be felt, yet.

I'm not saying locked out is right...that remains to be seen. Just saying that mid to late January, before full rollout/guest "education" has hit isn't likely a great indicator one way or the other.

Let's see how it is NEXT January....

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Ok... So if the tier prevents long lines by thinning out the fastpass bookings... Then you will have to go for longer standby lines for what you don't choose or skip those other things.

That's pretty ridiculous for parks that don't have that much to offer for the price to begin with.

And if you book even three rides a day... And boom that one, two, three meals a day...AND you do at least some planning around shows and other things in the park...
There's your day.

And they know where you are and how to shave their labor down to the thinnest of margins.

And that might be it... Or there may be that missing "something" we talked about.
I sure hope so. Cause right now it sure seems they've deemed my "puny" investment over three years as unworthy of freedom/fun.

But I'm still waiting...

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Just to add some context, though, to the above post:

Dhs hasn't gone fp+ exclusive.

The changes are new enough, and not "mandatory" enough, so that their full effect is unlikely to be felt, yet.

I'm not saying locked out is right...that remains to be seen. Just saying that mid to late January, before full rollout/guest "education" has hit isn't likely a great indicator one way or the other.

Let's see how it is NEXT January....

Officially... I like the fastpass+ last trip and was generally pleased. But I'm still wondering what the ultimate program will look like. I knew what there goals are... They are fairly see through as always... But I still think there is something missing.

If the goal of this is just to change the conditions of what had basically been the same park experience...to reeducate the masses... And to require way more effort by the PAYING customers for internal accounting purposes...

Then my vote might not be so positive.

But agree...we'll have to wait and see.

Going feb/march and I'll be very interested to track things before/during/ and especially after.

I will be surprised if this doesn't result in snarls...as the original fastpass actually almost eliminated them.
But where's the money in that?

 

[pilferk]

Officially... I like the fastpass+ last trip and was generally pleased. But I'm still wondering what the ultimate program will look like. I knew what there goals are... They are fairly see through as always... But I still think there is something missing.

If the goal of this is just to change the conditions of what had basically been the same park experience...to reeducate the masses... And to require way more effort by the PAYING customers for internal accounting purposes...

Then my vote might not be so positive.

But agree...we'll have to wait and see.

Going feb/march and I'll be very interested to track things before/during/ and especially after.

I will be surprised if this doesn't result in snarls...as the original fastpass actually almost eliminated them.
But where's the money in that?

We just got back yesterday. We were there from the 11th - 18th. Anecdotally, we saw generally longer stand by lines than we have on past trips. But the parks seemed more crowded, too.

We have gone in mid January, before. But I don't remember if marathon weekend was directly followed by mlk weekend in past years. Maybe...but not being sure, I'm reluctant to lay the longer wait times we saw squarely at the feet of fp+ (yet).

We liked some of the mb features. We definitely did not spend more because f them...we spent less, overall, than on previous trips...for a variety of reasons ( none financial). We really do dislike the loss of flexibility, and ability to adjust on the fly. But....it wasn't untenable for us. We are rope droppers, most days...and, for now, that still seems to spell short waits for awhile. The only place we really ran into LONG (60+ min by 10 am) wait times early on the am was for tot on the 14 th, and test track on the 13 th. And I think both rides may have been having tech issues that contributed.

I'm squarely on the fence. But I will say that the things I saw, on the ground, do more to support the detractors than support the supporters. Possibly longer standby lines, full fp+ ques for offsite guests, and a pretty big loss on terms of flexibility for, really, no discernable pay off.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Pilferk,

Thank you, a good
Honest assessment...very informative at this point.

I seem to be in your boat...I just don't know.

If I were an advisor to Disney... I would be cautioning that core clientele elimination is the main danger with this program. When things are good... There are plenty of casual travelers, groups, etc to fill the void and pay for extras that they may be rolling out.

But...wait for the next economic downturn (and trust that it will come)... Travel is the first thing to go and they really could be crippled unlike before....IF they have ticked off the regulars.

A practical example is that many relatives/ friends/acquaintances in my area are starting to spend less at wdw -even quite drastically... They bought into DVC long ago and have bought passes and parked in restsurants for decades...but the steep climbs in costs under Iger have pushed them off. No more APs...it's no longer a deal at full price (you get a 100 off...but when the face value is jacked up 300...you get the picture)...steep cut backs in food spending.
Some use their DVC as a launch point into the rest of the town/state now...there is a crack there.

 

[tjkraz]

Just to add some context, though, to the above post:

Dhs hasn't gone fp+ exclusive.

The changes are new enough, and not "mandatory" enough, so that their full effect is unlikely to be felt, yet.

Goes both ways, though. Although FP+ isn't "mandatory", there is still FP capacity being allocated to the legacy paper machines.

When the machines are turned-off, there will be more people using FP+...but there will also be more FP+ available for each attraction.

 

[pilferk]

Goes both ways, though. Although FP+ isn't "mandatory", there is still FP capacity being allocated to the legacy paper machines.

When the machines are turned-off, there will be more people using FP+...but there will also be more FP+ available for each attraction.

Sure. But we don't know anything about how that allocation is working.

So, as I said, it still means it's not a very accurate assessment.

Give it a year...when there is only fp+ and a lot more of the masses are clued in.

You've been around a LONG time, just like I have. I remember very similar conversations on rec.arts.disney.parks concerning adrs when they went wide spread (or priority seating, as it was known then).

Granted, this's not exactly the same. Restaurant capacity is far smaller than ride capacity. But the arguments sounded very similar in terms of availability and walk up availability. Those arguing that disney would allow 100% of tables to be prebooked, and that the most popular places would need booking at 90 days (and then 180 days) were called the doom and gloomers. Fast forward and...well...you can see where we are.

I'm not convinced the same will occur with ride capacity. But I'm not convinced it won't, either. I think we need to get more history under our belts to know for sure.

 

[tjkraz]

Pilferk,

Thank you, a good
Honest assessment...very informative at this point.

Here's my own honest assessment.

Based upon my 2-day December experience (and a round of testing before that), I think it works great and perfectly suits our travel style.

First day we used FP+ was for Hollywood Studios. Got FP+ for Rock N Rollercoaster and Tower of Terror back-to-back. By arriving toward the end of our RNR ride window, we did both of those attractions back-to-back with no wait.

After lunch we leisurely made our way around the perimeter of the park. Walked through One Man's Dream, Streets of America, Muppetvision. Then it was time for our Star Tours FP+. After that we pretty wound our way toward the exit. Total park time was about 3.5 hours and we saw everything we wanted to see with no waits and no back-tracking.

That night we went to Epcot. Living Seas had no wait as usual. Only real wait we experienced was Test Track, for which we were prepared. I actually wanted to do Standby so that we could go through the entire car design experience. Posted wait was 45 minutes but we were closer to 30 before boarding.

Next day we used FP+ at Magic Kingdom. First FP I booked was the Mickey & Minnie meet and greet. I was curious to see the new character tech. As expected, no wait. We were still a few minutes from our Space Mountain FP so we rode TTA. Turned out Space Mountain was down, which lead to the only real hiccup in our plan. I used my phone to change the Space FP+ to something else, then later switched it back to Space when the attraction was running again. So we did have to circle back to Tomorrowland at the end of our day.

But before that we did Laugh Floor, Philharmagic, Haunted Mansion, BTMR (PF+) and PotC with minimal waits.

Based upon my dozens of trips to the WDW and DL parks, these were unquestionably the most organized visits we've ever had. Mid-December is a slower time at the parks but even in comparison to other mid-Dec trips (which I've done 4 or 5), these were easily the most leisurely / organized.

Gone was the uncertainty of FP return times. It was very easy to plot out a route around the park based upon our usual touring pattern. Standby times are still unknown...but that's always been the case. There is still some adjusting on-the-fly necessary.

The tiering isn't perfect. That and the limit of 3 per day are my biggest reservations. But I can work around those issues. If Test Track and Soarin are that important to me (which they aren't), I'll schedule 2 days at Epcot.

If Disney chooses to monetize FP+ is some way, it may change my overall opinion. But I can only comment on what I've experienced and the system as we know it today. I wouldn't brand it "revolutionary" but it unquestionably improved the quality of those two park visits.

I'm not suggesting there won't be bumps and glitches along the way. Some will have to adapt their touring style...perhaps more than once...until they find their own sweet spot. But I keep circling back to the reality that attraction capacities aren't changing. Soarin, TSM, Test Track...they will all accommodate the same number of people per day. What's changing is the distribution of those rides. Personally, I will gladly sacrifice the extra headaches involved with lapping the park to collect and then use FP tickets for a modest increase in my own Standby queue usage.

 

[pilferk]

Pilferk,

Thank you, a good
Honest assessment...very informative at this point.

I seem to be in your boat...I just don't know.

If I were an advisor to Disney... I would be cautioning that core clientele elimination is the main danger with this program. When things are good... There are plenty of casual travelers, groups, etc to fill the void and pay for extras that they may be rolling out.

But...wait for the next economic downturn (and trust that it will come)... Travel is the first thing to go and they really could be crippled unlike before....IF they have ticked off the regulars.

A practical example is that many relatives/ friends/acquaintances in my area are starting to spend less at wdw -even quite drastically... They bought into DVC long ago and have bought passes and parked in restsurants for decades...but the steep climbs in costs under Iger have pushed them off. No more APs...it's no longer a deal at full price (you get a 100 off...but when the face value is jacked up 300...you get the picture)...steep cut backs in food spending.
Some use their DVC as a launch point into the rest of the town/state now...there is a crack there.

That's us, in a nutshell.

DVC members. Still having a good time, but with the dining price increases, we've repatterned our dining habits ( combined with the fact we have a 11 yr old, and p, by our next trip, another "disney adult"). We've completely abandoned the dining plans, and now use the tiw discount. We do very little cs...and more splitting and snack sized lunches. We do breakfast in our room, almost exclusively.

We buy less stuff because there is only so much plush and cheaply made plastic stuff you want in the house (and packed in your return luggage). There isn't, and hasn't been, enough new variety of stuff, or, really, stuff we want, to encourage us to spend more.

Our kids bring their own spending money. They each had a couple hundred bucks in their back pockets to spend, they managed about $50, each.

My wife and I didn't even manage that. We browsed a lot...but I couldn't even find a stainless steel lined coffee mug I liked ( and I tried!). Usually we are good for the annual tie dye tshirts for the 5 of us..but I couldn't find them this year, either. They had some more generic tshirts, but nothing we all liked....

We certainly had money to spend, but just couldn't find anything that compelled us to spend it.

Next trip for us is oct, 2015. It'll be interesting to see what "the world" looks like, then. That trip will also include a couple days at universal. We skipped it this trip after going there the past 2 trips, but want to check out their new stuff next time. The trip will be longer to do that...not cutting any disney time.

 

[pilferk]

Here's my own honest assessment.

Based upon my 2-day December experience (and a round of testing before that), I think it works great and perfectly suits our travel style.

First day we used FP+ was for Hollywood Studios. Got FP+ for Rock N Rollercoaster and Tower of Terror back-to-back. By arriving toward the end of our RNR ride window, we did both of those attractions back-to-back with no wait.

After lunch we leisurely made our way around the perimeter of the park. Walked through One Man's Dream, Streets of America, Muppetvision. Then it was time for our Star Tours FP+. After that we pretty wound our way toward the exit. Total park time was about 3.5 hours and we saw everything we wanted to see with no waits and no back-tracking.

That night we went to Epcot. Living Seas had no wait as usual. Only real wait we experienced was Test Track, for which we were prepared. I actually wanted to do Standby so that we could go through the entire car design experience. Posted wait was 45 minutes but we were closer to 30 before boarding.

Next day we used FP+ at Magic Kingdom. First FP I booked was the Mickey & Minnie meet and greet. I was curious to see the new character tech. As expected, no wait. We were still a few minutes from our Space Mountain FP so we rode TTA. Turned out Space Mountain was down, which lead to the only real hiccup in our plan. I used my phone to change the Space FP+ to something else, then later switched it back to Space when the attraction was running again. So we did have to circle back to Tomorrowland at the end of our day.

But before that we did Laugh Floor, Philharmagic, Haunted Mansion, BTMR (PF+) and PotC with minimal waits.

Based upon my dozens of trips to the WDW and DL parks, these were unquestionably the most organized visits we've ever had. Mid-December is a slower time at the parks but even in comparison to other mid-Dec trips (which I've done 4 or 5), these were easily the most leisurely / organized.

Gone was the uncertainty of FP return times. It was very easy to plot out a route around the park based upon our usual touring pattern. Standby times are still unknown...but that's always been the case. There is still some adjusting on-the-fly necessary.

The tiering isn't perfect. That and the limit of 3 per day are my biggest reservations. But I can work around those issues. If Test Track and Soarin are that important to me (which they aren't), I'll schedule 2 days at Epcot.

If Disney chooses to monetize FP+ is some way, it may change my overall opinion. But I can only comment on what I've experienced and the system as we know it today. I wouldn't brand it "revolutionary" but it unquestionably improved the quality of those two park visits.

I'm not suggesting there won't be bumps and glitches along the way. Some will have to adapt their touring style...perhaps more than once...until they find their own sweet spot. But I keep circling back to the reality that attraction capacities aren't changing. Soarin, TSM, Test Track...they will all accommodate the same number of people per day. What's changing is the distribution of those rides. Personally, I will gladly sacrifice the extra headaches involved with lapping the park to collect and then use FP tickets for a modest increase in my own Standby queue usage.

Just a note on Epcot: you don't even have to schedule 2 days at Epcot to do Soarin and tt. You just have to do rope drop. Head directly to the one you do NOT have the fp+ for. Wait will be less than 10 min, usually. At least so far....we will see f disney manages to recondition all the late risers. I doubt they will.

Single day dhs touring seems to be the bigger challenge. Fp+ tsmm! and head to RNR OR tot. Likely on exiting, you will see a 30+ minute standby in "the other". At least that's what we saw last week.

But if you want to tour in the afternoons...then it will be interesting to see what happens. Will it be "worse" than it is now (meaning significantly longer standby ques).

 

[tjkraz]

Just a note on Epcot: you don't even have to schedule 2 days at Epcot to do Soarin and tt. You just have to do rope drop.

That's very true. I've never been a "rope drop" guy but you are correct.

Single day dhs touring seems to be the bigger challenge. Fp+ tsmm! and head to RNR OR tot. Likely on exiting, you will see a 30+ minute standby in "the other". At least that's what we saw last week.

ToT isn't in the same tier as RnR. You could get FP+ for TSM and ToT, and do RnR at rope drop.

One other general thought: the people who are most likely to be upset with the change (IMO) are those who enjoyed getting more than one FP for the same attraction each day. Arrive at rope drop...get FP for RnR and immediately get in standby line. Later when you return to use first FP, get another. Repeat as long as possible.

Now that isn't possible, which would seem to free up additional capacity for other guests.

 

[pilferk]

That's very true. I've never been a "rope drop" guy but you are correct.



ToT isn't in the same tier as RnR. You could get FP+ for TSM and ToT, and do RnR at rope drop.

One other general thought: the people who are most likely to be upset with the change (IMO) are those who enjoyed getting more than one FP for the same attraction each day. Arrive at rope drop...get FP for RnR and immediately get in standby line. Later when you return to use first FP, get another. Repeat as long as possible.

Now that isn't possible, which would seem to free up additional capacity for other guests.

Awesome! We "beat" tiering by one day for dhs. I was able to do fp+ for all 3. Good to know tot is the lower tier. With its capacity, when fully on line, it makes sense.

We are not "multi riders" at least not same day. The only thing we even consider riding more than once in a single day is killamajaro safaris. And we can rope drop it and fp+ it if we want to do it twice.

As I said, I'm squarely n the fence. I reserve judgement til I see some stand by line history. If it increases them, significantly...that's an epic fail IMHO.

 

[DRDISNEYMD]

Does that seem right or appropriate to you?
Or do you think perhaps its a backward was to try to force people to stay for longer durations that they have felt they "deserved" after AK and has been pouting about ever since. I mean...they built half a park and then started cutting corners across the entire property...why arent the stupid guests increasing their 6.7 day stays to 9.8 days like they were expected to? Throw me a bone here.



No offense at all ( i yield to your genius )...but i've seen you put this over and over again. Do you honestly think that that fastpass sprint was that big of a problem? I mean...who really does this...a couple of hundred/thousand at rope drop? The majority of the crowds (based on the internal tracking for 15 years) arrive between 9 and 12...that doesnt equate to "fast pass sprint". I think it a vocal but...small...minority who really slaps and complains about the struggles of fastpass kiosks. i'm guessing the matching tshirt/pin lanyard types..or tour groups.



Well...if you believe what the management types said...oh say...12 or so years ago...
Yes...fastpass was put in as a giftshop driver. Not a government secret...everything since about 1985 was put in as a giftshop driver. its where the money is made.
And no...i don't think fast pass worked for that. If anything...it actually injected more freedom/leisure into the park...which is not good for sales.
It also might be that they sell cheaper and cheaper crap every single year. no analysis of that due to the asian free trade agreements. Why look at the results when its being begot so cheap. Just have to "re-educate the consumer
"...thats all.



I reject this. the parks arent pound for pound more crowded...in fact attendance increases are due to an expanding travel calendar for many...and guaranteed multiple annual trips by dvc (guilty)

The complaints are due to the ever diminishing virtue of patience. 2 hour waits were tolerated at WDW in the past. now 30 minutes are unacceptable. you see this everyday. wdw...if anything...is for the spoiled at heart.



I have also liked my one experience so far...because i don't HAVE to ride anything and i value the scenery and the food more...so that is goal #1. food is pushing it though...better start turning the quality up now that they've hooked people on that stupid plan and jacked the prices to oblivion. and the standardized bar menus...are you serious?!?!

digress...
I can think of a few ways that this might play out. Is it possible that an overall increase in lines (more on the bottom...maybe less on the top)...might be the goal?
doesnt that counter the "giftshop" plan? yes and no...perhaps they have multiple angles...giftshops being the greedy/easy one...but what if this is a setup for "experience" charges? as in princess pay personalized experiences...like meet and greet meets bibbidi bobbity boutique. what if for say...$30..your little princess can now book exclusive access to her favorite characters and rides...with much more freedom than the rigid "new normal"?
who wouldnt fall for that?
or "extreme mountain climbers" passes...all those extreme thrill rides whenever you want them?

wouldn't that data they collect help target pay packages to you? hmmm...

What i'm saying is that it might be more complicated than just fast pass purchase packages...perhaps

Or...as many have speculated...stupid sounding resort level fastpass bumps...
Disney's "Dream" Level packages, Disney's "Wishes" packages, Disney's "Fantasy" packages...

sounds like Hedonism..i know...but if it plays like this:
level one: value, expirable park hopper, mugs and food, and 4 picks
level two: moderate, expirable park hopper, dining, and 5
level three: deluxe, expirable park hopper, expanded dining/rec, and unlimited fp spots up to the daily maximum based on time...and of course a free dvc tour and a banana split.

wow...that's alot of guaranteed, non-refundable revenue that they can pay dividend on before you show up - aint it?

~Sorry, but criss crossing the parks is a big deal for me -- the walk from Space Mountain to Splash or BTMRR is at least a quarter mile, even a little longer from the furthest parts of Fantasyland. If I was at Disney during October through March than criss crossing may not bother me, as much. But, in late August it is brutal and still time consuming. It's a waste of time -- in the time it takes to pull a fastpass and come back and also wait before I can pull another fastpass just to come back, I could ride standby twice with time to spare.

~And, I don't wear matching t-shirts or lanyards. But, I am a power walker and my walk is mean -- most people have to jog to keep up with me.

~With that said, I would cringe if Disney were to allocate fastpasses according to resort level. I just don't see this happening.

 

[ToyStoryMania1]

I actually am happy they capped this at 3. I really can't stand people who get a ridiculous amount of these around the park and when the park runs out and you get there mid day they are completely gone.

I would absolutely be against the selling of fastpasses for extra passes or tier by resort level especially to those of us who don't stay on resort. It is a problem that exists at Universal where the add on option for a "fast pass"-they use another word is $15 extra per day if you buy well in advance for that particular day or that day it can be $120 extra. I learned this out the hard way last year and left quite a sour taste in my mouth about Universal.