ECV and Buses

[dclfun]

I've had so many horrible experiences with the WDW busses that I can't even begin to list them all. I will say that I've experienced EXACTLY what Lisa was talking about - missing a show due to having to wait for another bus. My daughters and I were headed to Epcot from AKL when a lift bus driver refused to board me because he claimed he couldn't see my back wheels. He said I'd need the ramp bus. Now, I can't back up a ramp OR lift bus because I have a ventilator behind my chair and I refuse on a lift bus to get my breathing tubes in the way of the lift, possibly killing me. On a ramp bus, since I have a Permobil chair which the manufacturer stated CANNOT back up, but should go forward when boarding any vehicle, I'm not going to back up. I've had my kneecap broken on a lift bus once when the driver didn't have the lift down correctly on the sidewalk ( I was thrown underneath the bus as he raised the lift which was half off/half on the sidewalk and had to be removed by the fire dept), been argued with about how to board, etc. I've spoken to a supervisor who told me he'd write in the driver's "book" that I'm an exception to their rules, but I question whether this can even be done, and if so, what driver is going to know this? Frankly, I refuse to be killed because of Disney policy. I know how to drive my chair safely. I'm tired of arguing and tired of missing shows and reservations during every trip, tired of busses arriving with broken lifts, tired of waiting longer than other guests. ---Kathy

 

[Talking Hands]

Kathy,
My sweet husband has said as long as he is with me he is willing to drive me and not have me on the buses. Of course then I have to be on his schedule but maybe that is better than being injured because of an unsafe policy.
BTW one of our students has a Permobile. It is a really awesome chair. If I had to get rid of my Jazzy that is the one I would want.

 

[Chip 'n Dale Express]

Just an update... I haven't forgotten about this and all... I've been talking to a few people, and haven't gotten the answers that I want quite yet. I have a few more contacts to look into, its just a matter of scheduling conflicts. (I work mornings at Epcot/Studios, they work nights at MK)

One little addendum... Disney is starting to allow guests to board in forward ONLY if there is a raised curb at the bus stop.

As for writing a letter... I was hoping to get you a more direct address, but I was informed that all guest communications must go through the central communcations office. From there, it will be forwarded to the appropriate department. If you want a reply, or to be contact, please be sure to include all pertinant contact information in all communications. This includes name, address, phone, email, and best times to contact. I seem to have misplaced the paper I had written that down on, but I'm sure it's readily available here on the Dis. I will find it later when I am more awake, and post it.

 

[Talking Hands]

Well mine won't be able to board a ramped bus if there is not a curb. The ramp is too steep.

 

[SueM in MN]

Disney is starting to allow guests to board in forward ONLY if there is a raised curb at the bus stop.

The lack of raised curbs at WDW seems to be the biggest problem. For the buses with lifts, not having a raised curb is an advantage. The buses with ramps are designed to be used with raised curbs, because that's generally what city bus stops have. I know they use those ramped buses successfully in cities, but the big difference is that the cities have raised curbs at the bus stops and WDW has a lot of flat surfaces.

 

[Chip 'n Dale Express]

Originally posted by SueM in MN
The lack of raised curbs at WDW seems to be the biggest problem.

I would tend to agree... and the frustrating part is that Disney is intentionally building curbless load zones, for some obscure reason that I have not been able to figure out. Curbs help with ease of entry/exit... they look better, and they create a solid definition of the load zone, which then means I dont have guests standing out in the middle of the road about to be run over.

Anyhoo, I'm late for work... off I go.

 

[Chip 'n Dale Express]

Okay... I have some good news.

I got into a discussion today with a few other managers, along with "Safety One", our safety team leader. It took multiple tries to explain the situations, and I'm still not quite sure they fully understood where I was coming from, and what I was talking about. (This is why y'all really need to write those letters... not to critisize or complain, but rather to EDUCATE... because it's needed!!!) After much debating and trying to explain how not all mobility devices and/or guests are able to back up onto a ramp, they came up with a compromise.

The following result is NOT official... however, it did come from a Guest Service Managers mouth, along with Safety One. I'm going to press on harder to see if I can get it to become an official policy.

When at a bus load zone that does not have a curb, if the guest is unable for whatever reason to back up the ramp of the low floor bus, they may drive up in forward under the condition that a Family member walks up directly behind them to ensure that they do not topple over. It must be a family member (or friend) - the bus driver cannot do this. It is still greatly preferred, recommended, and asked that the guest go up in reverse. This new addendum is only a last resort, and like I said before, is not official.

I'll keep you updated on any more progress.

 

[SueM in MN]

Thanks, Tyler. Once you have an address for us, I'll summarize all the Basic ecv/power wheelchair 101 information that people posted in this thread to try to explain things.

 

[Talking Hands]

Tyler what are they going to do about those of us who travel alone? I value my independence and do not always run off the parks witha companion. They need to got it through their heads that not all people using power wheelchairs are accompanied by other people. It is the fact that we have a power wheelchair that allows us to continue being independent and do things on our own.
For instance I went to the grocery store today. Used my wheelchair. No one went with me. Before the power wheelchair someone wouldhave gone with me to help and make sure I didn't fall. I like doing my own thing without a companion.

 

[Chip 'n Dale Express]

Originally posted by Talking Hands
Tyler what are they going to do about those of us who travel alone? I value my independence and do not always run off the parks witha companion. They need to got it through their heads that not all people using power wheelchairs are accompanied by other people.

Indeed, not everyone at WDW travels with companions... whether they use a power wheelchair or not. I did ask about what to do if they don't have someone with them... and it was stressed that as a driver, I must remain at the control box at all times. They suggested calling a manager for that particular situation, however, I don't see that as being very effective. I'm wondering if another CM could assist. Like I said, I'm still working on this for y'all... so, I will see what more I can dig up. Please be patient with me, I don't often get to see the people I need to see since we work different schedules.

 

[Mazzy]

As someone who will be using a scooter for the first time this trip, I would just like to say a BIG THANKYOU to you Tyler, for taking the time to try and find a solution to the problems with using the buses. To make time to speak to your colleages about this is very much appreciated - by myself, and I'm sure, by everyone on the DISabilities Board. Thank you - you're a Great Guy!

 

[Leia's Mom]

I just wanted to reiterate the thank you. A bit of background. . .

I have lived my life with wheelchairs. No, not mine. My father was in a wheelchair until his death. He had both of his legs amputated due to a military injury. My sister and I were his legs. We rarely traveled anywhere. It was simply not feasible.

My dad died many years ago, but I was faced again with a wheelchair situation when my mother had a stroke at the age of 48. My mom loved to travel, and I was not about to let her stop because of her disability.

I was terrified about taking her to Disney last year. I must say, though, that the bus drivers were (generally) fantastic. She was quite nervous about the lifts, but the drivers were patient and took all the necessary time with her. Sure it was frustrating to not be able to get on every bus we wanted. Yes, sometimes we were a little late (not such a big deal for us since she has no hearing problems). However, I was so grateful of the changes since my dad was wheelchair bound.

Yes, there are still problems to be worked through. Yes, those with physical challenges should expect to have all the accessibility of any other person. However, I do have to say thank you for doing all that you can to make our trips easier.

Next year is the cruise. Keep your fingers crossed that it goes as well as Disney did. . .

 

[SueM in MN]

seems like a good time to bump this one.

 

[ditzy]

Originally posted by Talking Hands
Tyler
Please note that the term Electric Convenience Vehicle is offensive to many who use ECVs. A better term is electric conveyance vehicle. The term convenience has distinct implications as far as attitude towards those who must use them. (ie iit is a convenience not a need)

At some point someone assumed that the "C" in ECV stood for convenience rather than conveyance.