Echalon Under the Clinton Administration.

[DawnCt1]

First they came for the Communists,
and I didn’t speak up,
because I wasn’t a Communist.
Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn’t speak up,
because I wasn’t a Jew.
Then they came for the Catholics,
and I didn’t speak up,
because I was a Protestant.
Then they came for me,
and by that time there was no one
left to speak up for me.

by Rev. Martin Niemoller, 1945. You've quoted this before Amanda!

Then they came for the terrorists but the liberals spoke up for them. Unfortunately there is no one left to speak for me because they have succeeded in their mission.

 

[Mom2be]

What insults?? Valerie Plame got her 15 minutes of fame on the cover of Vanity Faire with a scarf and dark glasses. The Vanity Faire comment was NOT directed towards you but at Plame who couldn't give up her 15 minutes of dubious fame. Why doesn't the surveillance of known persons with direct links to Al Qaeda, who happen to be receiving foreign phone calls concern me?? Because I happen to think that is what we should be doing to protect our country. I am glad our president sees it that way too. The "process" was "ignored" because it was a top secret operation that didn't have to involve the courts. The Attorney General and the NSA attorneys confirm that.

Which just goes to show that I don't read Vanity Faire since I had no idea that Valerie Plame was even on the cover of it.

Dawn, there are laws set up to protect US citizens from this sort of action. Why the hell would you be okay with your government going around these laws? Does that not then indicate that I don't need to let the IRS about the $10,000 I made on the side this year because it shouldn't involve them? This action by the constitution is illegal - as illegal as lying under oath and if you are to blind to see that then I feel sorry for you.

~Amanda

 

[Mom2be]

Then they came for the terrorists but the liberals spoke up for them. Unfortunately there is no one left to speak for me because they have succeeded in their mission.

These types of statements that you make are so full of crap it is amazing my monitor doesn't stink. Not one freaking liberal has ever spoken up for the terrorist. What we don't want is our government and country acting like TERRORIST!

~Amanda

 

[DawnCt1]

Other than what Bush told you, you have no idea who those calls were to, who made them, where they made them, etc.

Stop pretending otherwise.

They were phoning home to wish their moms "Happy Mother's Day"!

The president has had nothing to personally gain from surveilling the enemy. It doesn't make his poll numbers go up. It doesn't win him reelection. He isn't trying to hide from a "Lewinsky" scandal. He is trying to protect the country. That's what we are paying him to do.

 

[sodaseller]

Unfortunately there is no one left to speak for me .

I hope that after I face death my Redeemer speaks for me. But I understand your fear that that will not occur for you

 

[DawnCt1]

Which just goes to show that I don't read Vanity Faire since I had no idea that Valerie Plame was even on the cover of it.

Dawn, there are laws set up to protect US citizens from this sort of action. Why the hell would you be okay with your government going around these laws? Does that not then indicate that I don't need to let the IRS about the $10,000 I made on the side this year because it shouldn't involve them? This action by the constitution is illegal - as illegal as lying under oath and if you are to blind to see that then I feel sorry for you.

~Amanda

I don't read Vanity Faire either. The photo was reprinted on the web and in several national newspapers and magazines.
Secondly, the law was not broken. Furthermore FISA 1978 provides for such surveillance and thirdly, if you deposit that extra $10K in your bank, the IRS will indeed know about it because your bank will report such a large deposit should you deposit it all at once. Your local supermarket knows more about you when you scan your grocery card and cash your checks. We know that there are sleeper cells within the country with ties to Al Qaeda. Doesn't that concern you in the least?

 

[DawnCt1]

I hope that after I face death my Redeemer speaks for me. But I understand your fear that that will not occur for you

Get over yourself. Reciting an overused poem when you are worried about the "rights" of terrorists being able to "phone home" is a bit disingenuous.

 

[DawnCt1]

These types of statements that you make are so full of crap it is amazing my monitor doesn't stink. Not one freaking liberal has ever spoken up for the terrorist. What we don't want is our government and country acting like TERRORIST!

~Amanda

Getting a bit "graphic" there Amanda, aren't you?

 

[sodaseller]

you are worried about the "rights" of terrorists being able to "phone home" is a bit disingenuous.

Yep. That's it - that's the point - making sure terrorists can phone home. Truly there is no truth in you

 

[AMcaptured]

Bush did not do this without consulting the members of congress.
From FoxNews ....And don't diss Fox News, Chris Wallace got this out of Reid and he is not conservative.


An uncomfortable Senate Minority Leader Harry Reid admitted on Sunday that he was briefed on the Bush administration's decision to have the NSA monitor domestic communications in the wake of the 9/11 attacks, as reported in the New York Times on Friday.

"I was briefed a couple of months ago," the testy-sounding Democrat told "Fox News Sunday" host Chris Wallace, after complaining: "Listen - the program has been in effect - it's been in effect for four years now."

Reid's admission came only after Wallace pressed him twice about President Bush's claim yesterday that congressional leaders had been briefed on the program.

Asked the first time Reid dodged the question, saying: "[The president] can't pass the buck on this one. This was his program. He's commander in chief. But the commander in chief does not, I think, trump the Bill of Rights."

After Reid finally admitted that he knew about the domestic surveillance program, he again tried to shift blame to the White House, saying: "This is something that's [the responsibility of] the president and the vice president and there's no way he can pass the buck."
The top Democrat declined to explain why he didn't raise objections when he was first briefed on the spy program that suddenly has Democrats and the media up in arms.

 

[sodaseller]

Bush did not do this without consulting the members of congress.

Categorically false. Reid was told once this year after the program had been in effect over three years. Rockefeller was told in 03, and objected strenuously, and was told it didn't matter, causing him to write Cheney and tell him he was saving a copy of the letter to record the objection. He knew there would come a day when the President would lie like that

 

[DawnCt1]

Categorically false. Reid was told once this year after the program had been in effect over three years. Rockefeller was told in 03, and objected strenuously, and was told it didn't matter, causing him to write Cheney and tell him he was saving a copy of the letter to record the objection. He knew there would come a day when the President would lie like that

So Reid is lying about himself to Chris Wallace.

 

[Chuck S]

The "process" was "ignored" because it was a top secret operation that didn't have to involve the courts. The Attorney General and the NSA attorneys confirm that.

Since when does the "Attorney General" and the NSA attorneys have the right to "trump" the Constitution? If the alleged terrorists are US citizens, they have as much right to the protection of the 4th amendment as anyone else. Nothing...NOTHING in the FISA act over rides the 4th amendment.

 

[Laura]

So Reid is lying about himself to Chris Wallace.

AM said, "Bush did not do this without consulting the members of congress." That isn't the same thing as telling them years later, after the fact.

 

[Mom2be]

I don't read Vanity Faire either. The photo was reprinted on the web and in several national newspapers and magazines.
Secondly, the law was not broken. Furthermore FISA 1978 provides for such surveillance and thirdly, if you deposit that extra $10K in your bank, the IRS will indeed know about it because your bank will report such a large deposit should you deposit it all at once. Your local supermarket knows more about you when you scan your grocery card and cash your checks. We know that there are sleeper cells within the country with ties to Al Qaeda. Doesn't that concern you in the least?

Yes if I got paid the whole $10K at the same time. I work for a national bank so I am more aware of banking laws and pratices then you are. I am also well aware of how the patriot act is used in banking which you probably have no clue about. I don't scan a grocery card and I don't cash my checks there. So how would the IRS figure out that I had an extra 10K paid under the table through out one year? Simple fact is THEY WOULDN'T.

I said it before and I'll say it again. If the President and his administration are truly innocent of the charges then they will not fight a bi-partisan investigation into it. Because if they are not doing anything wrong, then they have nothing to hide. Right?

~Amanda

 

[dcentity2000]

Unfortunately there is no one left to speak for me because they have succeeded in their mission.

English pls



Rich::

 

[sodaseller]

So Reid is lying about himself to Chris Wallace.

"I was briefed a couple of months ago," the testy-sounding Democrat told "Fox News Sunday" host Chris Wallace, after complaining: "Listen - the program has been in effect - it's been in effect for four years now."

Reid was told once this year after the program had been in effect over three years. Rockefeller was told in 03

You just keep humiliating yourself. The demonstrated reasoning ability is consistent with your party's leaders, and is why they screw everything up they touch

 

[JCJRSmith]

They were phoning home to wish their moms "Happy Mother's Day"!

OK, that was pretty funny.

 

[toto2]

I don't read Vanity Faire either. The photo was reprinted on the web and in several national newspapers and magazines."

If you would read Vanity Fair , you would know that it is always a star that is on the cover , never one of the political subject. Further more , while Vanity Fair is a liberal magazine , they do have pieces written by real journalists ( not TV talk show host) that do real researche and provide sources for there facts. I would encourage you to read it sometimes.

 

[LadyDay]

Well, Bush told me that he was free tonight and was gonna wiretap your phone calls because he had nothing better to do. Geesh. Unless your talking to al-Qaeda, I don't think you should be too worried.

So the sole source of your information is what Bush said. You really don't have any idea whether or not he's telling the truth, but you'll accept his word. Fine by me.

However, I say given the history of the Bush administration, someone crossed the line.

So, now we have a difference of opinion and one of us is right. That's why we need an investigation. And that's why we have the checks and balances of requiring a warrant.

No, I'm not a member of Al-Qaeda and yes I am worried whenever any politician of whatever party or philosophy starts performing gyrations a gymnast would be proud of to justify their actions. I'm also worried when people blindly accept what a politician tells them and then expects everyone else to follow in lockstep.

You can believe Bush...........Let me know when he finds the WMD's.