DX vrs. FX

Evad

Livin The Dream
Joined
Aug 1, 2005
Messages
8,346
I'm just curious as to what differences can be seen in IQ between the two formats. Is a full frame camera just that much better then a crop body. Also what can you get out of an FX body that you just can't get out of a DX camera.

I guess what I'm looking for is the pros and cons of each system


Not trying to start a debate, this is just purely educational.
 
Hi Dave! I'm still really new to all this camera stuff. What is DX and FX? What does IQ mean photographically? Thanks!
 
DX and FX are Nikon nomenclature. An FX camera has a sensor that is roughly the size of a 35mm piece of film. A DX camera has a sensor that is about half that size. You sometimes see DX cameras referred to as APS-C.

First, I'd like to dispel the myth that there is something special about "full frame" cameras. It's just an arbitrary size with no special properties. Sensor size impacts many things, but there is no single perfect sensor size. 35mm film wasn't chosen because it met some special criteria.

Bigger sensors have several advantages. They have more area for gathering light, so they tend to have less noise at any given ISO. The advantage is theoretically about 1 stop.

For optical reasons, you get shallower depth of field with a larger sensor. This is great if you want shallow depth of field (common in portrait, wildlife, and bird photography) but not good if you want more depth of field (landscape photographry).

Given a DX and an FX camera with the same resolution, the FX camera will have a lower pixel density. That means that it is mangifying the image from the lens less. That means that optical limitations and defects of the lens will be less apparent.

There are several downsides to larger sensors. They are bigger, which typically results in bigger cameras. They also require the use of bigger lenses. With Nikon cameras, I believe that you can shoot with DX lenses, but the camera crops the photo to match. With Canon, the EF-S (DX equivalent) lenses will not mount because of mirror spacing limitations.

When shooting FX lenses on a DX camera, you get some advantages. The center of a lens is usually the best optically and that's all that you are using. You also have fewer problems with vignetting (darkening of the edges and corners).

Smaller cameras magnify their images more. That means that the field of view will be narrower (more zoomed in) for any given focal length. A DX camera shooting through a 100mm lens will produce an image with the same field of view as an FX camera shooting through a 150mm lens. That's great if you want longer lenses (birds, wildlife) but it is bad if you want wider lenses (architecture, landscapes).

Outside of the Nikon/Canon world, there are additional choices. Olympus and Panasonic (I think) make an even smaller sensor than the DX cameras. Many companies make larger sensors than the FX sensors, but the costs for those systems are usually well into the tens of thousands of dollars.

It's hard to say what the future holds. For a while, it looked like DX was going to be the new standard. Today, it appears that Nikon and Canon are committed to both sizes. At the moment, it looks like the high end cameras and lenses are focused on FX sized sensors, but that could easily change. I know several people that could easily afford FX cameras but shoot 50Ds and D300s because they better match their needs.
 
Oh year, IQ in photography terms is an abbreviation for Image Quality. It is a general term that covers lots of differences like contrast, sharpness, saturation, color fringing, etc.
 

Thanks for your great explaination Mark. I really appreciate you taking the time to type all that out! :thumbsup2
 
Thanks for your great explaination Mark. I really appreciate you taking the time to type all that out! :thumbsup2

No problem. I was going to say that I have a full frame (FX) camera so DX cameras are all pathetic kidz toys, but then I remembered where I was.
 
Great explination Mark.
Just one point of clarification...

With Nikon cameras, I believe that you can shoot with DX lenses, but the camera crops the photo to match.

Straight out of the box with factory settings, you are totally correct. But there is a menu option that allows you to still shoot full frame with a DX lens. You just get vignetting from the DX lens that is not pleasing in the slightest.

I took this with a D3 and a 17-55mm f2.8 DX lens. I could safely zoom out to about 26/28mm before I got any vignetting. This was taken at 22mm. So you can totally use a DX lens on an FX camera, even still shooting full frame, there just isn't any point to doing it because the image is trash.

3658500719_b96e9d2a87_o.jpg
 
I think another possible consideration, at least for Nikon, is that the FX lens catalog is missing counterparts for a lot of the great (recently released) lens that are available for DX.
 
If you are building a camera system the DX/FX issue is important regarding lenses. At least for Nikon. They are making lenses especially for the DX sensors which is fine. But if you move up to a camera with an FX sensor those DX lenses are not going to optimal to say the least.

The difference in how the lens perspective changes from FX to DX is user preference. Sometimes its good at the long end of the lenses but not so much with the short end. It really depends on what you are trying to photograph and your lens.

Since I started with camera's back in the film days I prefer FX since all of my lenses where bought to use with film aka FX cameras. With a DX sensor my lenses at the short end are not so short anymore. :)

If building a camera system it would be a good idea to keep the difference in the DX/FX cameras and lenses in mind. My guess is that over time the cameras will migrate towards FX sensors. It would be bad to have a bag full of DX lenses and then move to a FX based camera.

A DSLR is just a computer that holds a lens. We upgrade our computers frequently. I am now on my second DSLR. I bought a D200 when I thought the technology had matured. I sold off my F100 and N70 but I could still use all of my FX lenses on the D200. I thought I would keep the D200 for 3-5 years before there would be a new camera I would want to buy. I was wrong. I think I had the D200 for 18-24 months before buying a D700.

The D700 is the best camera I have ever owned. Period. It has taken photos that I simply could not have gotten with a D200 or an F100 shooting film.

But to reinforce my point. I am still using the same lenses on the D700 that I used on an N70 and F100 film cameras.

Later,
Dan
 
Smaller cameras magnify their images more. That means that the field of view will be narrower (more zoomed in) for any given focal length. A DX camera shooting through a 100mm lens will produce an image with the same field of view as an FX camera shooting through a 150mm lens. That's great if you want longer lenses (birds, wildlife) but it is bad if you want wider lenses (architecture, landscapes).


A good explanation of some points regarding frame size but one point I would like to clarify: smaller sensors do not magnify images, they only show a portion of the image compared to a larger sensor (with the same lens).

*We* magnify the image by expanding the image to fit the same size monitor or print as a larger sensor image, the actual image has the same magnification as a cropped piece of the larger sensor. This dispels the myth that we get "longer" lenses on crop cameras. We do not, the magnification of the image stays the same. We perceive more magnification due to the narrower field of view but it is only perception. The central portion of the images on two different size sensors would match when overlayed.

Iow, a 200mm lens is still a 200mm lens.
 
I think another possible consideration, at least for Nikon, is that the FX lens catalog is missing counterparts for a lot of the great (recently released) lens that are available for DX.

Like what?
 
Mark, Dan, Bob thank you for all the great info. I was just very curious as to what the differences were thinking maybe I was missing something in using a dx body. I now have a lot to go on when it comes to making future purchases.


Ed no NAS bug this time, I just like to keep my options open..... :rolleyes1
 
Like what?

I'm also curious. I don't follow the Nikon lineup all that well, but I was under the impression that their last few major lens releases (the T/S and the super telephotos) were FX lenses. The fact that they came out with FX super teles and no DX super teles was seen by Nikonians I know that they are committed to the FX as their high end line.
 
I'm also curious. I don't follow the Nikon lineup all that well, but I was under the impression that their last few major lens releases (the T/S and the super telephotos) were FX lenses. The fact that they came out with FX super teles and no DX super teles was seen by Nikonians I know that they are committed to the FX as their high end line.

I have no idea- Nikon's modern lens lineup has solid FX Zooms from 14-200mm @f2.8 then on to 400mm @f4, plus the whole line of huge new telephoto's as you mentioned. Aside from some kind of all-in-one lens like the 18-200mm for FX I'm not sure what there is for DX that does not have a better full frame equivalent. A few DX lenses have VR on the wide end which the professional models omit- but considering VR is supposed to gain 1-2 stops I hardly think that is an advantage compared to faster glass and higher usable ISO. Now if you want to talk about the FX lens catalog missing an affordable selection that a person can carry around without a sherpa- well then you may have a very good point. They really could use a decent FX line situated somewhere in between their plastic DX 18-XX/XXX arsenal and the top of the line professional gear. That I would not argue.


I'm just curious as to what differences can be seen in IQ between the two formats. Is a full frame camera just that much better then a crop body. Also what can you get out of an FX body that you just can't get out of a DX camera.

Now Dave- as for the original question- I will tell you that I absolutely love Full Frame. To me personally- the jump from DX to FX was a quantum leap almost as significant as moving from a P&S to a DSLR. I have said this before but I bought it pretty much for the ISO and the viewfinder. And those things are great but now what I really love is that the FX sensor just has a certain look and feel to it. I can't really put my finger on it but I know every lens I had in my bag got way better overnight. Not necessarily sharper- I don't do test shots on brick walls or care about charts or graphs- they just got better- yummier- hard to explain but it's there. And I like old lenses- mostly primes- because they have distinct personalities which I appreciate- unlike most of the modern computer designed zooms which all have the same clinical sort of look to them- and shifting to FX more than anything was like turning a spotlight on that. Something that was there all along- just amped up on FX. I have no idea if that will make sens but- well hey- you asked. ;)
 
Like what?

Perhaps I should have stated that differently. The same focal lengths are all obviously covered, but there are missing counterparts to specific lenses, or there are not comparably priced versions of similar lenses out there. Now, I realize that if you have $2,500+ to blow on an FX camera, you're probably not going to go the cheap route with your glass, nor will you typically be interested in a vacation lens, so I suppose maybe my point is moot.

For me personally, I know that no matter how much I may want the benefits of going FX, I couldn't afford the accompanying glass to replace my DX glass, so the whole system is cost-prohibitive whereas the body alone is not.
 
I have no idea- Nikon's modern lens lineup has solid FX Zooms from 14-200mm @f2.8 then on to 400mm @f4, plus the whole line of huge new telephoto's as you mentioned. Aside from some kind of all-in-one lens like the 18-200mm for FX I'm not sure what there is for DX that does not have a better full frame equivalent. A few DX lenses have VR on the wide end which the professional models omit- but considering VR is supposed to gain 1-2 stops I hardly think that is an advantage compared to faster glass and higher usable ISO. Now if you want to talk about the FX lens catalog missing an affordable selection that a person can carry around without a sherpa- well then you may have a very good point. They really could use a decent FX line situated somewhere in between their plastic DX 18-XX/XXX arsenal and the top of the line professional gear. That I would not argue.

You obviously know a heckuva lot more than me, but isn't VR useful in situations where ISO and aperture will not help? For instance, if I want to use a slightly longer shutter speed to show motion in the subject, VR will correct my slight camera shake (preventing the entire image from being crap), whereas it won't do anything to the subject. Perhaps the situations for using this are few and far between, but it's still nice to have (or am I overlooking something?)
 
They (Nikon) really could use a decent FX line situated somewhere in between their plastic DX 18-XX/XXX arsenal and the top of the line professional gear. That I would not argue.

Canon my have figured this out, they often have three lines of similar lenses: plastic; "gold stripe" which often has USM and non-rotating front element; and L which as in Nikon's case requires a good credit card and a Sherpa.

...what I really love is that the FX sensor just has a certain look and feel to it. I can't really put my finger on it but I know every lens I had in my bag got way better overnight. Not necessarily sharper- I don't do test shots on brick walls or care about charts or graphs- they just got better- yummier- hard to explain but it's there. And I like old lenses- mostly primes- because they have distinct personalities which I appreciate- unlike most of the modern computer designed zooms which all have the same clinical sort of look to them- and shifting to FX more than anything was like turning a spotlight on that. Something that was there all along- just amped up on FX. I have no idea if that will make sens but- well hey- you asked. ;)

I believe at least part of this is pixel size, and part less processing. Canon's first popular dSLR, the D30, and Nikon's equivalent had *very large* pixels with 3 MP on a APS-C sensor. The smoothness was considered remarkable and none of my cameras since have had that kind of look. I still occasionally use my D30 because the images have that look.
It's the tiny LCD and 2100 x 1400 image that I don't care to go back to! ;)
 












Receive up to $1,000 in Onboard Credit and a Gift Basket!
That’s right — when you book your Disney Cruise with Dreams Unlimited Travel, you’ll receive incredible shipboard credits to spend during your vacation!
CLICK HERE






DIS Facebook DIS youtube DIS Instagram DIS Pinterest DIS Tiktok DIS Twitter DIS Bluesky

Back
Top Bottom