Dwindling Value?

[COACHSTING]

Hello..... We have been DVC members for 12 years now. We usually try and get down to Orlando 2-3 times a year. However, over the last few years, no matter what time of year we go, the parks are too crowded to enjoy them. Even with an annual pass, access to only a few attractions during a day, with hour long waits simply does not seem worth the cost any more.

Sure, they are adding some rides in the parks, but if you look at the number of rooms and resorts that are being added, it is clear to see that these new rooms are far outpacing park capacity.

We are now starting to take trips simply to our resort and then enjoy the amenities there, or we can use the resort as a base and start taking day trips from there instead of going to the parks.

We are also strongly DIScouraging our children from purchasing DVC points as we do not believe they are a good investment.

Until Disney builds another resort or vastly improves park capacity, we are re-considering how we will soend future visits to Central Florida.

How do you feel?

 

[quirty30]

Hello..... We have been DVC members for 12 years now. We usually try and get down to Orlando 2-3 times a year. However, over the last few years, no matter what time of year we go, the parks are too crowded to enjoy them. Even with an annual pass, access to only a few attractions during a day, with hour long waits simply does not seem worth the cost any more.

Sure, they are adding some rides in the parks, but if you look at the number of rooms and resorts that are being added, it is clear to see that these new rooms are far outpacing park capacity.

We are now starting to take trips simply to our resort and then enjoy the amenities there, or we can use the resort as a base and start taking day trips from there instead of going to the parks.

We are also strongly DIScouraging our children from purchasing DVC points as we do not believe they are a good investment.

Until Disney builds another resort or vastly improves park capacity, we are re-considering how we will soend future visits to Central Florida.

How do you feel?

I think Disney is a business whose goal is to fill their parks and their rooms. As a DVC member, we, too spend more time at the resorts, but not because we feel like the parks are overcrowded. We just like to relax and we enjoy the DVC resorts thoroughly. When we do visit one of the theme parks, it's at a leisurely pace. Yes, there may be crowds, but we don't let it get to us.

I did not buy DVC as an investment- it's a timeshare, and it serves its purpose quite well for our family.

 

[brertoad]

They are working on ways to improve how people have access to the attractions. The new thing now is going to be the wrist bands and planning your day online, rather than getting fast passes.

I don't base the value of our DVC contract on how crowded the parks are, they are crowded and the peak times are really annoying. The value of our contract is in booking ___ days of deluxe rooms per year for $____ the cost of maintenance fees. Basically it comes out to $65-70 a night on average.
We were paying OOP about $225-240 a night for deluxe studios. We will recoup our contract cost in about 4 years (probably 3 years left now).
For us, DVC will pay for itself.

If your kids want to stay on property and save money on rooms, DVC resale would be the best way to do that. The parks are going to be crowded regardless. We take the good with the bad, if something has a line - we just skip it. We use Extra Magic Hours when staying at WDW and ride on stuff like Soarin' and Toy Story Mania.

When the new system is up and running, perhaps we'll all be able to plan ahead and schedule our attractions and avoid having to waste time in lines. Honestly, it's in Disney's best interest (putting my business hat on) to keep wait times to a minimum, when you are in line waiting - you aren't spending money!!! Keep wait times low, get people spending more money.

 

[MinnieLee]

We love our DVC. We also have been members for 12 years and although I have seen everything regarding the crowd levels that you are speaking about, we would not be able to go to WDW as often as we do for that getaway without DVC. When you go often, you know the shortcuts, times to avoid, what to go to first (ex.:Toy Story Mania, Soarin'). You don't have to rush around to see everything because you know you are coming back. Was our purchase an investment - yes but we bought in based on our love of Disney.

Crowds are always what time of year you go. We go at Halloween and, if we can, late spring. We try to avoid major holidays because of the crowds.

Also, you are not restricted to going to Disney. If your family wants to go somewhere else that is also an option to avoid the park crowds and a change of pace.

As pp, when you are standing in line, you are not spending money. Disney is a smart business and will do whatever they can to "move you along". It does come down to the bottom line.

Our son bought in 2 years ago and our DD is going to look into purchasing when she goes in October. Depending on what their vacation likes are, it might be for your children.

I have read on these boards that DVC is not for everyone but I whole-heartedly feel was a great purchase for our family.

 

[AmyB2006]

Well my first question would be, when are you going? You say during low crowd periods, but are they really? Are you going on weekends or weekdays? It makes a big difference.

We go end of October for Halloween and Food and Wine. And even with as popular as that time of year is, I don't think the parks are super crowded while we're there. We usually do Food and Wine during the day because it will get crowded in the evenings with the locals. And we try to hit it on a weekday.

I don't know. We love DVC and love being at Disney. And if the parks are super crowded we just do what we can knowing we'll be back in a few months, and maybe just hang out at the resort.

 

[tjkraz]

...over the last few years, no matter what time of year we go, the parks are too crowded to enjoy them. Even with an annual pass, access to only a few attractions during a day, with hour long waits simply does not seem worth the cost any more.

Things have certainly changed over the years but there are still many times of the year when "hour long waits" are not the norm.

If you are limited in when you can visit (summer, popular vacation periods), that's always going to be an issue. But we've been DVC owners for 10 years and have NEVER waited an hour for ANY attraction. Closest to that is probably Toy Story Mania at Disneyland which does not have FastPass, and usually has a 30-40 minute wait.

Using FP when available, our waits are under 20 minutes probably 90-95% of the time.

That said, the parks were designed to host many more guests than they do in a typical day today. Our DVC purchase occurred in the years following the 9/11 attack and subsequent tourism slow down. Comparing those light crowds to 2013, sure the parks are much busier. But not to any degree which discourages me from visiting the parks.

Sure, they are adding some rides in the parks, but if you look at the number of rooms and resorts that are being added, it is clear to see that these new rooms are far outpacing park capacity.

Disney owned hotel rooms have very little to do with theme park crowds. Hotels are simply a way of capturing more revenue--the lodging dollars.

People don't decide to visit WDW because they increased their on-site hotel rooms from 25,000 to 30,000. Adding more rooms is simply Disney's way of luring people on-property and away from the off-site hotels.

Staying on-site may cause those guests to spend a bit more time in the parks. But the mere existence of Pop Century and Art of Animation isn't convincing people to visit Walt Disney World.

 

[jekjones1558]

OP, if you are not enjoying the parks that much anymore then maybe DVC isn't a good fit for you now. I know that we spend much less time in the parks than we used to but we do enjoy having them as part of the experience. The resale market is very hot right now. We have owned about 14 years (just a little longer than you) and we could sell now for close to what we paid, even after paying the sales commission. There are lots of other timeshare options in Florida that might be more cost efficient for you. If you truly aren't that interested in visiting the Disney parks, then maybe it is time to move on. Good luck to you!

 

[mcraige]

We've been during very busy times of the year (New Years Eve, for instance) and even then have been able to access more than "only a few attractions during a day" and never at an hours wait or longer - even with minimal planning. PF is your friend, and should be used to your benefit.

 

[DizBub]

The title of this thread was a little misleading to me.

The value in DVC is in using it. If you don't feel like you will use it much any more because of the crowds at the parks, maybe you should rethink the way you use it. I hate the crowded parks too but since we joined DVC we visit differently. Parks are far lower on the daily adgenda for us. We just like to be there.

 

[JWG]

It would be interesting to know what, if any, impact the DVC program has had on occupancy rates. I would venture to guess none on Value and Moderate for sure. Maybe some on Deluxe - though DVC really doesn't fit any of those molds. A perpetual Value resorter would likely not lay out the cash for DVC. A frequent Deluxer likely won't be satisfied with the DVC service (non-daily housekeeping, paid towl service, etc.).

And, has DVC impacted attendance at the parks? The only hotel rooms added since AKL opened (which never sold well enough to maintain itself, hence DVC on the top floor) are value. Disney isn't drawing in more people via value rooms, they're trying to capture those people who simply stay at Marriott Village or any number of other disocunt hotels outside the property.

As far as attendance, an improving economy is probably driving that more than anything. That and the continued gap in the exchange rate tha makes it cheaper for people to travel here internationally for vacations.

We had friends who were there over Christmas/New Year's week 2012 into 2013 and they didn't think it was too bad. They didn't stay on property (relatives in the area), but were at the parks.

 

[DougEMG]

My last two trips were at what is considered peak times (Spring Break & Christmas) and while the parks were crowded, we still had a great time. One of the main reasons was that we were very flexible in what we did. If something had a long line we'd skip it, after all we knew we'ld be back.

While the savings on the room is really nice, I think the other main advantage of owning DVC is that it changes how you vacation (I'm starting to sound like a salesman), you can afford to take you time and relax and not race around trying to do everything all every day.

Our up coming trip is in Sept so it will be interesting to see how the crowds compare.

 

[RSWA2]

A frequent Deluxer likely won't be satisfied with the DVC service (non-daily housekeeping, paid towl service, etc.).

Good and interesting point. One thing that I've always enjoyed about hotel stays (Disney or elsewhere) was that you always got fresh towels, amenities and clean sheets, when you needed them. In the past few years, the hotels that I've stayed at, they only changed towels if you request (or put them on the ground) and changed sheets every 2-4 days. You could request it every day, but in an effort to save water and save on costs, they reduced it. Plus there are times when I put the Do Not Disturb sign on because I didn't need any type of house keeping or I didn't want to tidy up before I left the room.

Sometimes it's nice, other times it's not needed. I wouldn't pay for it while staying at DVC. At least, I don't think I see the need to have the extra services.

However, I do wonder though, if they will eventually allow you to transfer points to Mousekeeping. For example, 1-5 points would allow a full cleaning that day (depending on room size), or clean towels every day for 1 point a day. I'm not sure how much impact that would have on that 2% that DVD owns. But if DVC owners are transferring out for DCL or ABD or RCI exchanges in high amounts, this probably isn't that big of a transfer. For me, if I need an extra cleaning, or I want clean towels every day (no dryer in studios), I wouldn't mind transferring points.

If the lack of Mousekeeping does impact new direct buyers of DVC, then I wonder if Disney will try that. However, if people are used to Timeshares, then, this point is moot. :

Or maybe other things, like transferring points for tours, instead of having a discount on them.

 

[tink519]

My DH bought into DVC with his father and brother before we were married. Our next trip will be our 9th in 8 yeras, including 3 HHI trips and using points to stay in San Francisco for 3 nights. We have been during some busy weeks, and not so busy....but we always enjoy it.

We use Fast Pass as much as we can and maximize our time. Are there sometimes long wait lines? Yes. Do we wait in lines for rides? Not often. I don't think I've ever waited for more than 40 minutes, it's not worth my time. I'll wait until the next visit, which is the luxury of DVC...there will be another visit. Does it bother me? No...have you ever been to other amusement parks where the wait time is 2 hrs for one coaster and you are only there for one day? That bothers me.

And of course there is the fact that we are staying in a 1 bedroom Deluxe....there is no way we would be able to afford to stay at the deluxe resorts if we were paying cash. The thought of staying in a regular hotel room for a whole week with a 6 and a 4 year makes me .... Ok, only half joking but we fully enjoy the fact that we have a separate room.

 

[hakepb]

My DH bought into DVC with his father and brother before we were married. Our next trip will be our 9th in 8 yeras, including 3 HHI trips and using points to stay in San Francisco for 3 nights. We have been during some busy weeks, and not so busy....but we always enjoy it.

We use Fast Pass as much as we can and maximize our time. Are there sometimes long wait lines? Yes. Do we wait in lines for rides? Not often. I don't think I've ever waited for more than 40 minutes, it's not worth my time. I'll wait until the next visit, which is the luxury of DVC...there will be another visit. Does it bother me? No...have you ever been to other amusement parks where the wait time is 2 hrs for one coaster and you are only there for one day? That bothers me.

And of course there is the fact that we are staying in a 1 bedroom Deluxe....there is no way we would be able to afford to stay at the deluxe resorts if we were paying cash. The thought of staying in a regular hotel room for a whole week with a 6 and a 4 year makes me .... Ok, only half joking but we fully enjoy the fact that we have a separate room.

Great point. We'll be back, so don't make this trip painful waiting in long lines. We go into a park with a few "must-do" rides and WL if necessary. Otherwise we only get into fun (short) lines. Other rides can wait for later in the day (lines go up and down all day), or the 2nd day this trip, or we'll catch it next trip.

 

[disneynutz]

Disney will do whatever it takes to make as much profit as possible. Special events, F&W, F&G, Star Wars, DTD, MVMCP, MNSSHP, new attractions, room discounts, free dining, running marathons and more. All of these events and attractions are designed to increase attendance. They also adjust the park hours to increase attendance.

The only thing that anyone can do to reduce the impact of the crowds is to plan, plan, plan. DVC makes it a little more challenging if you are trying to save points and vacation during slow periods that may have higher point requirements.

Bill

 

[Minniesgal]

We bought and love our DVC so we could enjoy resort ti e I. Addition to enjoying the parks. If we only wanted to do the parks I would have happily continued to stay offsite. We now only ever tour parks in the morning with the exception of world showcase which we only ever do in an evening. The rest of the time we pool hop, enjoy the rooms, go out to visit other resorts for relaxed dinners, explore other resorts, play mini golf, rent a boat, my husband golfs. We feel there is so so much more to WDW than just the parks and we love that our DVC encourages us to explore it.

 

[DebbieB]

Good and interesting point. One thing that I've always enjoyed about hotel stays (Disney or elsewhere) was that you always got fresh towels, amenities and clean sheets, when you needed them. In the past few years, the hotels that I've stayed at, they only changed towels if you request (or put them on the ground) and changed sheets every 2-4 days. You could request it every day, but in an effort to save water and save on costs, they reduced it. Plus there are times when I put the Do Not Disturb sign on because I didn't need any type of house keeping or I didn't want to tidy up before I left the room.

Sometimes it's nice, other times it's not needed. I wouldn't pay for it while staying at DVC. At least, I don't think I see the need to have the extra services.

However, I do wonder though, if they will eventually allow you to transfer points to Mousekeeping. For example, 1-5 points would allow a full cleaning that day (depending on room size), or clean towels every day for 1 point a day. I'm not sure how much impact that would have on that 2% that DVD owns. But if DVC owners are transferring out for DCL or ABD or RCI exchanges in high amounts, this probably isn't that big of a transfer. For me, if I need an extra cleaning, or I want clean towels every day (no dryer in studios), I wouldn't mind transferring points.

If the lack of Mousekeeping does impact new direct buyers of DVC, then I wonder if Disney will try that. However, if people are used to Timeshares, then, this point is moot. :

Or maybe other things, like transferring points for tours, instead of having a discount on them.

That would be difficult to administer. They would have to send rooms to CRO to recoup the cost, which they are already have difficulty renting without discounts. That's why they charge the $95 fee per reservation for trades, to defray the accounting costs.

 

[dwelty]

As a DVC member who's local park is the Disneyland Resort, Disney World has a LONG way to go before it gets so crowded that the average person will not want to go. I have been to Disney World in every month of the year, and for the most part I feel that the parks are quite manageable. I even went 4th of July week and the crowds were what I would consider a medium crowd day at Disneyland.

 

[Tink-n-Belle]

With DVC you get a great resort in Florida...the parks are the icing on the cake.

Just getting away from the cold winters was enough for my family and being able to enjoy Disney by staying in a 1 bdrm at Deluxe hotels within walking distance to the parks is priceless.

It's great that the parks are full, then hopefully they will invest in more rides which each park needs desperately IMHO.

We have been to our local amusement parks and we had to wait in line 45 minutes just to get in. Each ride was no better.

Since we have school aged kids we have to go during peak times and have always done mostly everything we wanted to do. I would love to be there this week. The crowds are excellent and the weather is absolutely awesome and soaring is only a 50 minute wait.....always 2 hours when we go. But that's what fastpass is for and rope drop.......

 

[Homemom]

How about trying out Disneyland or Vero Beach or Hilton Head? Our last 2 trips to Florida we spent the week at Vero and only 1 day at WDW to attend the Halloween and Christmas parties.