DVCnews May direct sales article

[airjay75]

My problem with resale restrictions is in my view they penalize not the buyer of resale points, but they penalize the buyer of direct points that may need to sell at some point.

For me, the cost delta between direct and resale at RIV (the others are too knew to know where they will land) means I would never consider a RIV direct contract - resale is such a better deal. Maybe that will change at some point once RIV is sold out, but that's where things stand for me right now.

I agree with you. In my view, they are essentially making DVC contracts a step closer to traditional timeshare contracts where there is little, if any, resale value. Not all the way there - there is still significant resale value, a robust rental market, and a set expiration date. But, on the whole, assuming they continue down this path, they will make DVC a significantly less attractive product than it has been. Time will tell.

 

[MerlinandtheMouse]

I agree, and actually feel like moderate Caribbean Beach has a better Skyliner location than deluxe Riviera even. That is, if you don’t mind taking the Skyliner.

I don’t find transferring at CBR all that annoying. I remember getting on a massive line, probably 100+ people one morning and we were on in 5 mins because it’s constantly loading. I think the TTC to and from Epcot is so much more annoying and often adds so much time. The other problem with staying at CBR is that the skyliner station is tucked away in one corner and it’s such a huge resort that if you’re not in the 2-3 immediate sections, it’s a hike to get there.

 

[Girlstar30]

My problem with resale restrictions is in my view they penalize not the buyer of resale points, but they penalize the buyer of direct points that may need to sell at some point.

For me, the cost delta between direct and resale at RIV (the others are too knew to know where they will land) means I would never consider a RIV direct contract - resale is such a better deal. Maybe that will change at some point once RIV is sold out, but that's where things stand for me right now.

But then you're tied to only riv. That's a strong no for me. Theres value in having 14 other resorts to choose from and counting.

The price isn't low enough for that imo I think it will go down way more and I can't imagine what that would be like when there's way more resale owners booking.i know people say to book at 11 months but plans change. At least others have good ol reliable (okw and SSR) to lean on.

I know it would be hard for direct riv too to book with all tne resales, but at least they have other options. It's just so risky to me even for half the price. I've already heard of resale riv owners having to spend their points on room types that were way bigger than their needs

 

[HyperspaceMountainPilot]

I don’t find transferring at CBR all that annoying. I remember getting on a massive line, probably 100+ people one morning and we were on in 5 mins because it’s constantly loading. I think the TTC to and from Epcot is so much more annoying and often adds so much time. The other problem with staying at CBR is that the skyliner station is tucked away in one corner and it’s such a huge resort that if you’re not in the 2-3 immediate sections, it’s a hike to get there.

I’ve never stayed at CB but have always found it attractive in the WDW brochures and it looks downright adorable from the skyliner as you float overhead— but it sounds like a lot of the rooms there require a lot more walking or internal transportation, so I am reluctant to stay there, if I’m not sure I can get a skyliner adjacent room…especially now that I own at BCV and VGF.

But I think I would consider it as a resort stay if I wasn’t planning on a park-intensive trip, and hope to make it there eventually.

 

[Girlstar30]

I agree with you. In my view, they are essentially making DVC contracts a step closer to traditional timeshare contracts where there is little, if any, resale value. Not all the way there - there is still significant resale value, a robust rental market, and a set expiration date. But, on the whole, assuming they continue down this path, they will make DVC a significantly less attractive product than it has been. Time will tell.

I think its headed that way which is why im not speculating or counting on future resale values being good when selling.

Things are going to look a lot different in 25 years.

There will always be desire for Disney so I dont think they'll be worth pennies, but they've been slowly devaluing the product so what's next?

I wouldnt be surprised if I become a grandfathered resale that can book the original 14 and all new resale buyers can only stay at the resort they buy at. There goes the value we were trying to hold onto.

 

[MerlinandtheMouse]

I’ve never stayed at CB but have always found it attractive in the WDW brochures and it looks downright adorable from the skyliner as you float overhead— but it sounds like a lot of the rooms there require a lot more walking or internal transportation, so I am reluctant to stay there, if I’m not sure I can get a skyliner adjacent room…especially now that I own at BCV and VGF.

But I think I would consider it as a resort stay if I wasn’t planning on a park-intensive trip, and hope to make it there eventually.

I haven’t stayed either but we’ve walked over from RIV and it really is super cute. I wouldn’t mind at all staying there if we ever find ourselves out of points one year. I like the vibes better than Coronado honestly which I know is a lot of people’s favorite moderate. That’s probably why I also actually like the preferred view at Riviera unlike so many others. The lake, skyliner and pretty colorful buildings is really appealing to me.

But yeah, it’s a big resort that’s spread far. Besides maybe Barbados, no matter where you stay you’ll find yourself a bit far from something important, either the skyliner or the main lobby/main pool area.

 

[Cfabar1]

But then you're tied to only riv. That's a strong no for me. Theres value in having 14 other resorts to choose from and counting.

The price isn't low enough for that imo I think it will go down way more and I can't imagine what that would be like when there's way more resale owners booking.i know people say to book at 11 months but plans change. At least others have good ol reliable (okw and SSR) to lean on.

I know it would be hard for direct riv too to book with all tne resales, but at least they have other options. It's just so risky to me even for half the price. I've already heard of resale riv owners having to spend their points on room types that were way bigger than their needs

My view, personally is in essence people are buying DVC for a WDW vacation. So, I think resale restrictions were really silly in that context. It's not that you're going to buy DVC so you can go to Orlando one year and Cancun the next... You're buying DVC because you have made a commitment to going to Disney World and want to "stay magical year after year"... And, they started the restrictions at arguably one of the nicest resorts - and one that is on the skyliner and has relatively easy access to two resorts.

The amount of money I'd save saying I'll spend that at RIV every year would well be worth the cost savings. And, if I wanted to stay at another resort I could rent my RIV points and then book a rental at one of the other resorts and likely come out ahead due to the points chart inflation at RIV. That high points chart also would entice me to purchase at RIV resale because of the cost savings.

There are other reasons why I am personally unlikely to buy Riviera direct or resale, but I have long felt that the best value in the DVC system is RIV resale contracts. The tower structure and high points charts mean dues are likely to stay low, the low resale prices offer value as well. Unfortunately that value on the resale market is coming at the expense of the direct buyers who bought it initially and now have to take massive depreciation when they sell.

 

[Girlstar30]

My view, personally is in essence people are buying DVC for a WDW vacation. So, I think resale restrictions were really silly in that context. It's not that you're going to buy DVC so you can go to Orlando one year and Cancun the next... You're buying DVC because you have made a commitment to going to Disney World and want to "stay magical year after year"... And, they started the restrictions at arguably one of the nicest resorts - and one that is on the skyliner and has relatively easy access to two resorts.

The amount of money I'd save saying I'll spend that at RIV every year would well be worth the cost savings. And, if I wanted to stay at another resort I could rent my RIV points and then book a rental at one of the other resorts and likely come out ahead due to the points chart inflation at RIV. That high points chart also would entice me to purchase at RIV resale because of the cost savings.

There are other reasons why I am personally unlikely to buy Riviera direct or resale, but I have long felt that the best value in the DVC system is RIV resale contracts. The tower structure and high points charts mean dues are likely to stay low, the low resale prices offer value as well. Unfortunately that value on the resale market is coming at the expense of the direct buyers who bought it initially and now have to take massive depreciation when they sell.

Well there's definitely something for everyone and if you dont mind staying at the same exact hotel for the next 35 years, possibly having to spend your points on a room type you dont want or selling the points whenever you don't want to stay there and booking something else, then yes riv resale is a good value for the type of resort it is.

As someone who tried to convince myself that renting points and staying at blocked out dvc resorts whenever I wanted to was a good idea, I quickly learned all the issues and downsides that comes with and changed my mind fast that im not doing that. Taxes, no flexibility, no stalking for a better room, possibility that owners cancels your res just to name a few.

It's not for me but there's value for those that are okay with all of this, yes. They will Def save vs paying cash for riv.

 

[Mouseforward]

My family is the RIV fans, their quote as to why they don't want Poly or VGF is " its does not feel relaxing" or like a luxury resort since its too crowded and feels like wall to wall people in the pools and common areas.

Riv never feels crowded and your not on top of each other.

I personal think BC has the quiet separate building with a quiet pool that helps , and BW is spread out to avoid the crowds. But I agree Poly GCH on a Sunday felt like the malls used to feel on Christmas eve when we were young. It would be ok if you did not need to go to GCH for everything. It is quiet by the DVC longhouses

 

[HyperspaceMountainPilot]

Reading the last couple posts in this exchange, it occurred to me that “restricted properties are fine actually, you can always rent them out and stay elsewhere” could potentially give DVC another motivation for curbing rentals.

 

[DVCsloth]

I completely disagree with this. There are certain extras when buying with Disney directly which makes perfect logical sense. I don’t see them treating anyone as 1st class and 2nd class. Do you also get offended when VIP tour people walk on rides? They paid for that added value that doesn’t mean Disney only values them and not you in the parks.

I used to get very offended when I would see people in the fast pass lane going to the front of the line after I used my three fast passes!

 

[Kingkonig]

My family is the RIV fans, their quote as to why they don't want Poly or VGF is " its does not feel relaxing" or like a luxury resort since its too crowded and feels like wall to wall people in the pools and common areas.

Riv never feels crowded and your not on top of each other.

That’s why we love it for sure. The only thing I would change is putting an age limit on the Beau Soleil pool - kinda is hard to relax at times (especially before the main pool opens).

I will say we’re hoping to add on direct at some point before it sells out. Yes, we could probably get away with resale and use our current direct points to stay at different hotels on property, since we’d plan on using the second contract at Riv exclusively, but it’s always nice to have the option to use them at a 2Br at Bay Lake/VGF/PIT/AKL (I’d add beach club or Boardwalk, but I try and be realistic)

 

[DVCsloth]

Well there's definitely something for everyone and if you dont mind staying at the same exact hotel for the next 35 years, possibly having to spend your points on a room type you dont want or selling the points whenever you don't want to stay there and booking something else, then yes riv resale is a good value for the type of resort it is.

As someone who tried to convince myself that renting points and staying at blocked out dvc resorts whenever I wanted to was a good idea, I quickly learned all the issues and downsides that comes with and changed my mind fast that im not doing that. Taxes, no flexibility, no stalking for a better room, possibility that owners cancels your res just to name a few.

It's not for me but there's value for those that are okay with all of this, yes. They will Def save vs paying cash for riv.

Another way you can look at Riviera resale is to own another resort and only visit Riviera every other year. This way you can book at another home resort or any other resort that your points are valid at.

 

[airjay75]

Things are going to look a lot different in 25 years.

I think that is the bottom line with the resale restrictions. We just don't know exactly how it's going to play out. I sometimes see folks post something very definitive along the lines of . . . oh, I'd never buy at RIV, imagine when it's all those resale contracts, it will be impossible to book a room there because they won't have any other option. That could be the case, but I think that way of thinking is often based on the way things work today.

Others have brought up other possibilities. Maybe people will tend to buy smaller resale RIV contracts to supplement their direct points or for smaller stays or every-other-year stays. Presumably we will have a good number of new resorts in the coming decades, and all of those will have resale restrictions as well - maybe the resale market will become focused on buying smaller contracts at different resorts. And, the O14 resale contracts will have less and less places available to use their points. Maybe trading into the Interval International exchange will become a more valuable option for resale contract holders than it is now.

And, Disney may well provide some sort of $$ way to bring resale points back into the fold. My understanding is that other major time share companies do that with some of their resale contracts. If it becomes a profitable venture for them to do, could easily see them doing it.

Bottom line, we just don't know what will happen - one way to hedge against this at RIV would be to buy a FW contract - I know someone else on these boards mentioned that is what they did. The way I plan to hedge against it is, beyond my 300 initial points which I am happy to keep for the long-term, any additional points I buy will be broken up into 50 point contracts. I may well be happy to keep them for the long-term, but hopefully that provides some flexibility if I decide I don't want more than 300 points.

 

[tx911]

I don't have much interest in Riviera resale. I already got a wife.

When it comes to DVC resorts, I want the whole harem.

 

[maui22]

Because Riv is in active sales, Disney isn’t encouraged to use ROFR. (Happens with all resorts). Once it sells out, will they use it?

No Epcot resorts coming that we know of. Means at least a couple years before they would start on something….IF they even decide to.

BCV and BWV expire in 15 years and 7 months. Someone talking to Disney direct who wants Epcot non-bus and no transfers access will look at two properties. Riviera skyliner to countries entrance. PVB for easy TTC to Epcot front.

Disney may be encouraged to buyback some RIV because it will have a larger return (based on history of resale for both these resorts).

 

[Brian Noble]

I wonder how much longer it will be before the monthly sales report doesn't turn into a RIV rock fight.

 

[BayTower2010]

One big issue with RIV resale is it eliminates a spur of the moment trip to WDW. If you buy direct, usually a room can be found somewhere in the 14 DVC resorts, but if only RIV there is a good chance you get shut out. I have on several occasions in the past 15 years of ownership where my wife and found we had matching days off. Quick search always turned up something--that is how we ended up at Old Key West for the first time. Own RIV resale and no dice.

 

[tx911]

One big issue with RIV resale is it eliminates a spur of the moment trip to WDW. If you buy direct, usually a room can be found somewhere in the 14 DVC resorts, but if only RIV there is a good chance you get shut out. I have on several occasions in the past 15 years of ownership where my wife and found we had matching days off. Quick search always turned up something--that is how we ended up at Old Key West for the first time. Own RIV resale and no dice.

Really valid point

 

[BeachClub2014]

There will always be desire for Disney so I dont think they'll be worth pennies, but they've been slowly devaluing the product so what's next?

This is an interesting comment about DVC/DVD slowly devaluing the product. I'm curious to hear more about how they've done so. It seems counterintuitive for a business to devalue its product base, but I'm not from the business world.