DVC, with all fees included vs. rack rate?

[Papa Deuce]

If you are a DVC memeber, and include your yearly dues + the equivalent of one years points, is it much cheaper to be a DVC member vs. paying rack rate? Or vs. just renting points? ( all things being roughly equal as far as when you go, size of room... )

I guess, what I am getting at, is with the exception of booking, why not just rent points or book through an authorized reseller?

 

[Chuck S]

Well, let's look at my recent 9 night stay in a studio at OKW for 118 points. I paid $51.50 per point in 1992, so divide that by 49 to equal $1.05102 per point per year. Now my dues were $3.86 per point this year, so a total of about $4.92 per point * 118 = $580.56. Rack rate for the room would have been $259 per night plus tax, or $2331 plus tax. Tax is (I think) 11%, maybe 13%. Anyway, I'll use 11% for a total of $2587.41. Renting points would have been (assuming $10 per point) $1180. So minimum savings would have been $599.14 for those 9 day. If it were rack rate, then the saving would have been $2006.85

Of course, your purchase price and length of contract will be different, but I bet it is still a savings.

 

[ferastu]

For me its a commitment to taking a trip to Florida at least once a year for the next 30 years of so. No excuses about too much work, or flights costing too much.

Renting also involves work that I don't want to get involved with.

In the long run this was not a $$$ decision, but one for enjoyable family time doing what we like best. If everyone only made decisions based on $$$ then there would be alot less BMW's, Mercedes, Lexus, etc on the road. After all your average Toyota/Honda is just as reliable

 

[mikesmom]

Partly because by owning, my prices don't go up every year like the hotels do. Maintenance up, yes, but it has been a very small increase, and one year it went down (we're talking maybe 3% here).

Renting doesn't guarantee you will find someone to rent what you want and when you want it. There is no authorized reseller, unless you mean to buy in at resale, which also works quite well.

 

[Papa Deuce]

Partly because by owning, my prices don't go up every year like the hotels do. Maintenance up, yes, but it has been a very small increase, and one year it went down (we're talking maybe 3% here).

Renting doesn't guarantee you will find someone to rent what you want and when you want it. There is no authorized reseller, unless you mean to buy in at resale, which also works quite well.

What I meant was probably not said correctly. I booked my stay throughh a travel agency since it was far easier than dealing with Disney. I called them several times explaining what I wanted to do and never was able to book.

I called a travel agency to book my 3 day stay at HH for the same price as Disney wanted to charge, but Disney wouldn't book the stay.

 

[Chuck S]

Oh, well once you are a DVCmember and have points you do not deal with the same Central Reservations office that books the Disney packages and regualr WDW resort rooms, you'd be dealing with Member Services.

While they occasionally have their problems, too, I find them in general much better to deal with. They are only open weekdays during normal East Coast business hours or you can request a reservation by email. The emails are generally answered within 2 to 3 business days.

Member Service can also book WDW dining reservations, but not the "packages", like Candlelight Processional or Fantasmic seating, they will transfer or refer you to Central Reservations/Dining.

As far as "problems" with Member Services, you will sometimes get a new person/trainee that is not fully familiar with the DVC system or gives you incorrect information. However, the majority of CMs I've spoken with have been friendly and well versed in DVC prodedures. There can be some long hold times on the phone, depending on the season/booking window...like for Christmas Week, spring break, etc., but I rarely wait over a minute or two in slower seasons.

As far as Central Reservation not booking your stay, remember that many hotels will not show availability because a percentage of their rooms are "blocked" for travel agent reservations, as to whether this is the case with Disney, I don't have a clue.

 

[Rozzie]

For me its a commitment to taking a trip to Florida at least once a year for the next 30 years of so. No excuses about too much work, or flights costing too much.

Renting also involves work that I don't want to get involved with.

In the long run this was not a $$$ decision, but one for enjoyable family time doing what we like best. If everyone only made decisions based on $$$ then there would be alot less BMW's, Mercedes, Lexus, etc on the road. After all your average Toyota/Honda is just as reliable

I love how you put this! This is how I feel about our DVC to a tee. everything else is just a toyota!

 

[Deb & Bill]

I love how you put this! This is how I feel about our DVC to a tee. everything else is just a toyota!

My DVC IS my Toyota. I love it!!

Now to say it was a Ford or Chevy, that's more like Motel 6 to bring back an old thread.

 

[tjkraz]

If you are a DVC memeber, and include your yearly dues + the equivalent of one years points, is it much cheaper to be a DVC member vs. paying rack rate? Or vs. just renting points? ( all things being roughly equal as far as when you go, size of room... )

Assuming that you're spending enough time at WDW to justify DVC and normally stay in a Deluxe (or want to upgrade from a Moderate or Value), paying cash through CRO will be your most expensive option.

Renting points is a reasonable alternative for many, but here are some drawbacks:

* Uncertain cost. What will points be renting at in 5 years? 10 years? 20 years? (We rented a couple of times before buying. In the end, the last thing we wanted to do was rent for another 5 years, only to discover should buy when prices were higher and contracts shorter. My greatest DVC regret is that the $2000 we spent to rent points didn't go toward our contract.)

* You're always dealing with a third party. Some are more reliable than others.

* Rental contracts normally have even more restrictive cancellation policies than DVC. With DVC, I can cancel with no penalty up to 31 days before check-in, and with a moderate penalty up to the night before check-in. Most rental agreements allow zero cancellations--particularly within 45 days.

* Related to the above, as a member, I can call 11 months ahead of time and book a room at my Home resort on a lark. If plans change or the vacation time doesn't come through, I simply cancel (or rebook) and the points come back to me. When renting, money changes hands, contracts are signed and promises are made before a room is even booked. You lose the ability to "guess" at a vacation--renting is a major commitment.

We are very happy to have locked-in our Disney vacation time, at a good price, well into the retirement years.

 

[unixadm]

Look at my numbers here:
http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=851966&highlight=Points

 

[lizziepooh]

I just plain like owning my points and having complete control over those points. When renting, you are trusting a complete stranger with your money and your reservation. While most folks are honest, there is the potential for problems.

 

[Laurabearz]

When we bought a couple of years ago, a lot of people were saying it would take approx 5-10 years for DVC to pay for itself....

For us DVC was a step up. A huge step us, since we prefer the 2 bedrooms. Great villas, great locations.... But, for us, it is the actual villas that made us buy... the Parks were secondary. It is so nice to have the room to enjoy each other... LOL

 

[Disney Doll]

DVC is not a solely financial decision. Believe me, I understand that there is a significant financial impact, since we have purchased 2 contracts in the last 8 years, but it is not solely a financial decision. Here's some "non-financial" things that we took into consideration during our decision-making process:

1. We liked the larger size units. Even the DVC studio is larger than most WDW regular hotel rooms, plus it has the kitchenette, which can contribute to some savings in meals, even if you are just eating breakfast in your room. Go to a 1BR or larger, and there's no real comparison for the average traveller. I know that all the deluxe resorts have suites etc.that are beautiful, but those are generally very expensive and not affordable to the average traveller.
2. While renting is an option, and for some folks a very viable option, I don't have a comfort level with it. I have heard a few "horror stories" regarding timesheare rentals, & my personal preference is to not have to involve myself in something that may ruin my vacation or require legal action. Plus I like being in control of my points and not having to depend on someone else acting as an intermediary. I prefer to deal directly with DVC myself.
3. I like receiving all the DVC mailings, insider info and whatnot. They have sent us some pretty cute stuff over the years.
4. Before we had points, it was always a bit of a struggle to save $$ for the accomodations...that was usually our biggest expense, and you had to come up with a "chunk of change" pretty much all at once. I am not one to finance vacations on a credit card for years. I like to put vacations on my Disney VISA for the protection, rewards points etc, but I like to pay them off within one or two billing cycles. Anyhow, we found it much easier to work a smaller monthly payment into our budget. As an aside, once you pay off the actual loan amount, the total yearly dues are pretty manageable. We have a total of 430 points at OKW, and our monthly dues payment is about $140, which works out to about $1400/year. We paid off the actual purchase cost of both contracts about 3-4 years ago, so our only cost for DVC right now is that $1400 dues fee. Last year, we took 3 trips to WDW using our points, staying in a 1 or 2 BR unit each time, for a total of about 15 days or so, and still had points left over to bank, which gave us more points to play with this year, so we were able to do a group trip where we stayed in an OKW GV with 5 other people for 4 nights. $1400 for 19 nights breaks down to about $73/night for what we consider to be superior accomodations.
5. Belonging to the DVC gives us a more "relaxed" feel to our vacations. We don't feel the need to "commando tour" since we know we'll be back. We find ourselves enjoying the resort itself more...sitting by the pool, DH has played golf, we have rented the boats in the various lakes...rather than feeling like we have to be constantly schlepping through the parks to get our "money's worth" because "who knows when we'll be able to afford to come back?" We know we'll be back again, and probably within the same year. That's a nice feeling.

Now, you mentioned an "authorized reseller". I don't believe something like that exists for the purpose of renting DVC points. There are timeshare resellers that sell DVC points...this board's sponsor, The Timeshare Store is among them...but they are selling you contracts that you will then own, they are not renting out points for you to use once. Purchasing through a reseller is a very viable way to buy into the DVC...we bought our 2nd contract via The Timeshare Store and had a very good experience...but again, they are selling contracts, not renting points.

I seem to remember one of your posts indicating that buying into the DVC was something you were looking into, PD. At least I think it was you, but then again, I am getting old and confused, so forgive me if I am wrong! Just so you know our "demographics" a bit...we are a middle-aged married couple (I am 43, DH is 47). We bought our first contract in 1997, so I was 35, DH was 39. We do not have any children. I work as a nurse, DH is the manager of a real estate office. We live in a relatively "normal" Cape Cod style house (3BRs, I think about 1800 square feet). I consider us middle-class. We are able to do fun things within reason, we are trying to save for retirement, but we do not have an endless or overly abundant supply of money. There is no "old money" in my family, nor do I have any rich relatives who are going to obligingly die and leave me millions. My guess at our combined yearly income is probably somewhere between 75K-125K, depending on how well DH's office does...some of his income is tied into their productivity & sales. We live about an hour north of NYC, so our general area is "expensive", and it can be tough, at times, to be "middle class" here.

That being said, I will end my little "missive" here by saying that we have never, for a moment, regretted our purchase. We didn't look at it as a purely financial investment...although believe me, when we were considering buying our 1st contract from DVC, DH researched it every which way from Sunday to make sure that there was no huge financial or legal risk to it, and could find none. Since he's in real estate and has been for about 18 years, I was comfortable with his assessment of the program. The point values for our home resort (OKW) have gone up since we purchased, so if we were to sell it now, we'd probably make a little money, or at least break even. We also look at the DVC as an investment in family, friends, relaxation and memories. You can't put a price tag on that.

 

[JohnNJ]

]2. While renting is an option, and for some folks a very viable option, I don't have a comfort level with it. I have heard a few "horror stories" regarding timesheare rentals...[/font]

What horror stories have you heard? I don't recall seeing any posted here.

 

[tjkraz]

What horror stories have you heard? I don't recall seeing any posted here.

There have been a few noteworthy tales. The one I remember most vividly involved someone who tried to rent all of his points before selling the contract. As most know, the first thing DVC does when a contract changes hands is to cancel all pending reservations. That's exactly what happened here, and a number of renters were left with no room when they arrived.

In the end it was something of an honest mistake. I seem to recall that DVC even attempted to resolve the situation for some of the impacted guests. But there were others who had their trips totally ruined over the problem.

There have been other problems and there WILL be more. It's only a matter of time. I'm not trying to imply that there are enough problems to discourage renting, but it's just one other concern that goes away when one is actually a member.

 

[Daitcher]

If you are a DVC memeber, and include your yearly dues + the equivalent of one years points, is it much cheaper to be a DVC member vs. paying rack rate? Or vs. just renting points? ( all things being roughly equal as far as when you go, size of room... )

I guess, what I am getting at, is with the exception of booking, why not just rent points or book through an authorized reseller?

Trying to justify a purchase financially is the wrong way to go. Timeshares as a rule are not saving anyone any money. Buy because you plan on going to WDW every year and truly love it there. Buy because you've had it with staying in cramped hotel rooms. Buy for the memories. Buy if you can comfortably afford it now. Any thing else is just a way to rationalize it to family and friends.


DAVE

 

[erikthewise]

I agree 100% that DVC is not just a financial decision. However the first question asked by OP was a purely financial question, and deserves an answer.

There are a lot of different ways of calculating costs. The method I use says

-- paying rack rates is always most expensive, by a considerable margin. (No surprise here!)
-- At current prices, buying DVC is only slightly less expensive than renting points. But it's close enough that reasonable methods may disagree.

IMO buying DVC is still the better choice for those who are committed to an annual WDW trip and want quality on-site accommodations. Renting is OK if your WDW trips are sporadic or you don't want to make a long term commitment.

If you choose to finance your DVC purchase at 10% over several years, that will make buying DVC significantly more expensive.

 

[Papa Deuce]

I'm gonna shorten the quotes, but first say THANK YOU for spending a considerable amount of time on your response....

13. I like receiving all the DVC mailings, insider info and whatnot. They have sent us some pretty cute stuff over the years.



Last year, we took 3 trips to WDW using our points, staying in a 1 or 2 BR unit each time, for a total of about 15 days or so, and still had points left over to bank, which gave us more points to play with this year, so we were able to do a group trip where we stayed in an OKW GV with 5 other people for 4 nights. $1400 for 19 nights breaks down to about $73/night for what we consider to be superior accomodations.

5. Belonging to the DVC gives us a more "relaxed" feel to our vacations. We don't feel the need to "commando tour" since we know we'll be back. We find ourselves enjoying the resort itself more...sitting by the pool, DH has played golf, we have rented the boats in the various lakes...rather than feeling like we have to be constantly schlepping through the parks to get our "money's worth" because "who knows when we'll be able to afford to come back?" We know we'll be back again, and probably within the same year. That's a nice feeling.


I seem to remember one of your posts indicating that buying into the DVC was something you were looking into, PD. At least I think it was you, but then again, I am getting old and confused, so forgive me if I am wrong! Just so you know our "demographics" a bit...we are a middle-aged married couple (I am 43, DH is 47). We bought our first contract in 1997, so I was 35, DH was 39. We do not have any children. I work as a nurse, DH is the manager of a real estate office. We live in a relatively "normal" Cape Cod style house (3BRs, I think about 1800 square feet). I consider us middle-class. We are able to do fun things within reason, we are trying to save for retirement, but we do not have an endless or overly abundant supply of money. There is no "old money" in my family, nor do I have any rich relatives who are going to obligingly die and leave me millions. My guess at our combined yearly income is probably somewhere between 75K-125K, depending on how well DH's office does...some of his income is tied into their productivity & sales. We live about an hour north of NYC, so our general area is "expensive", and it can be tough, at times, to be "middle class" here.

That being said, I will end my little "missive" here by saying that we have never, for a moment, regretted our purchase. We didn't look at it as a purely financial investment...although believe me, when we were considering buying our 1st contract from DVC, DH researched it every which way from Sunday to make sure that there was no huge financial or legal risk to it, and could find none. Since he's in real estate and has been for about 18 years, I was comfortable with his assessment of the program. The point values for our home resort (OKW) have gone up since we purchased, so if we were to sell it now, we'd probably make a little money, or at least break even. We also look at the DVC as an investment in family, friends, relaxation and memories. You can't put a price tag on that.

I'm a very "dollar oriented" kinda guy. For me, I couldn't care less if I ever visited WDW again. But that is just me. My wife loves it.My kids didn't enjoy it too much, but they were only 3 and it was like 100 degrees for all 11 days we were there.

I don't see us going to WDW every year. I think even my wife would grow tired of it if we did, but with DVC we would have other options on places to go / stay. If that was not the case I "KNOW" we would not join DVC. We had FREE accomodations in Myrtle Beach every year for 7 years and we grew tired of going even though MB has TONS of stuff to see and do ( not like Disney, I know ).

Our trip for 11 days including 7 day PH+ passes for 4 adults and 2 kids in 2004 cost about 5K - 6K for everything. Now we would just be 2 adults and 2 kids, so that trip would now probably be $1500 less. I'm including airfare, food, the PH+ passes....

So, I would guess that a 5 -6 day DVC trip would cost about 3K... which we could easily afford, but I'm too dang cheap, I guess!

I do see a some extra value in what you state.

Anyway, our first experience with a Disney property will be 3 days in HH in September.

Lots and lots to consider.

Thanks everybody!

 

[bz8bls]

My DVC IS my Toyota. I love it!!

Now to say it was a Ford or Chevy, that's more like Motel 6 to bring back an old thread.

My DVC is a Ford or GM (better to me than the Toyota IMO)