DVC - the math(s)

[MJ6987]

Hi,
I keep getting posts moved from here to Mousecellaneous. Hopefully this is in the right place (it is about purchasing DVC) but if not please move!

Has anyone ever (they must have) worked out how DVC stacks up against booking moderate resorts? I know this is not strictly like-for-like but for most people moderate resorts are a good option, right?

I.e. The comparison would be:

A. DVC plus purchased regular dining plan

Vs

B. Moderate resort booking with free dining (they pretty much always offer it)

Thanks

 

[disneynutz]

DVC resorts are considered deluxe resorts and share the amenities of the deluxe resorts that they are connected to.

You will have to spend time putting all of the variables that are specific to you, resort, room size, category, frequency of vacations, which will tell you how many points you will need.

Bill

 

[MJ6987]

DVC resorts are considered deluxe resorts and share the amenities of the deluxe resorts that they are connected to.

You will have to spend time putting all of the variables that are specific to you, resort, room size, category, frequency of vacations, which will tell you how many points you will need.

Bill

I will have a go at this!

I have always been surprised at the price difference between moderate and deluxe, and that's a price I wouldn't really pay through direct booking. I am never convinced there are *that* many advantages of deluxe over moderate -

Room a bit bigger - but how much time do you really spend in there at WDW?
Better theming
Nearer to one (or two) park/s

The other amenities are generally things that cost you more money like a spa, more expensive restaurants, etc

 

[JimMIA]

I would say that the most valid comparison would be between

• what you have currently actually done for the last 3-5 years
• vs. DVC ownership
• vs. other options that would meet your family's needs, including offsite accommodations.

With regard to the dining plan (free or otherwise) -- first of all I think it's a poor bargain, and second, it may or not be available in the future so I would not include it in a longterm calculation like this. You're talking about a 30-50 year financial timeshare obligation. To use some temporary perk like a dining plan as a factor is not a great idea, regardless of how it affects your calculations.

 

[ELMC]

Hi,
I keep getting posts moved from here to Mousecellaneous. Hopefully this is in the right place (it is about purchasing DVC) but if not please move!

Has anyone ever (they must have) worked out how DVC stacks up against booking moderate resorts? I know this is not strictly like-for-like but for most people moderate resorts are a good option, right?

I.e. The comparison would be:

A. DVC plus purchased regular dining plan

Vs

B. Moderate resort booking with free dining (they pretty much always offer it)

Thanks

With all due respect, I think this is a bit of a flawed comparison. Adding the dining plan into the calculations only serves to complicate the issue of comparing DVC to a Moderate resort. Not to get into a debate on the dining plan because there are people who enjoy using it, but it is rarely a cost saving tool. So if you want to analyze cost savings, it's best to leave it out.

Your real analysis should be DVC vs. a Mod using a discount (anywhere between 10-30%) and then factoring in the advantages of a Deluxe over a Mod vs. the disadvantages of DVC vs. hotel (no housekeeping, etc.).

TLR it works out to about the same over the long run, but you should really do the analysis tailored to your personal experiences and DVC choices.

 

[Dean]

Hi,
I keep getting posts moved from here to Mousecellaneous. Hopefully this is in the right place (it is about purchasing DVC) but if not please move!

Has anyone ever (they must have) worked out how DVC stacks up against booking moderate resorts? I know this is not strictly like-for-like but for most people moderate resorts are a good option, right?

I.e. The comparison would be:

A. DVC plus purchased regular dining plan

Vs

B. Moderate resort booking with free dining (they pretty much always offer it)

Thanks

This issue has been analyze to death over time. There's not really one true answer as it depends on assumptions and variables. IMO there is savings/cost which is what you might depend with DVC vs with the moderate and the TMV which is the largest single financial issue closely followed by yearly dues. And added value which is the extra you get for the price & risk. Realize that the ongoing commitment represents significant risk. At the end of the day using reasonable assumptions (20% moderate discount minimum) and avoiding unreasonable ones (rack rate of DVC as the comparison); DVC should be a little more expensive but return a reasonable added value comparing a moderate to a studio or 2 rooms to a 2 BR. It's difficult to almost impossible to realize a real savings on a 1 BR so the added value has to be important to you. Ultimately even when it looks like DVC saves you money it really doesn't due to the psychology of timeshares and the fact that most people spend the extra money anyway.

 

[Lorilais_mommie]

With all due respect, I think this is a bit of a flawed comparison. Adding the dining plan into the calculations only serves to complicate the issue of comparing DVC to a Moderate resort. Not to get into a debate on the dining plan because there are people who enjoy using it, but it is rarely a cost saving tool. So if you want to analyze cost savings, it's best to leave it out. Your real analysis should be DVC vs. a Mod using a discount (anywhere between 10-30%) and then factoring in the advantages of a Deluxe over a Mod vs. the disadvantages of DVC vs. hotel (no housekeeping, etc.). TLR it works out to about the same over the long run, but you should really do the analysis tailored to your personal experiences and DVC choices.

I agree not to add dinning..

If you insist on opening that can of worms:
You also have add the debate for the .TIW card.. (20% off most table meals)
That saves is more money than any dinning plan. "Free" or not..

 

[DougEMG]

Prior to purchasing DVC, we nearly always stayed in a moderate with free dining for a family of three. Now we bought only resale and always looked for the best deal possible so as to minimize the cost for those points. So DVC can beat a moderate with free dining under the right circumstances.

 

[MJ6987]

Thanks everyone for your comments - some interesting views. I didn't realise this was a can of worms!

To answer some of your points:

We have travelled from the UK 4 times since 2009, staying in one of the non-Disney Downtown Disney resorts the first time and then moderate the other times (Riverside, French Quarter and Coronado) so realistically, without DVC, we would continue down that road, possibly even throwing in the new Art of Animation or an offsite villa, but Deluxe is out of our price bracket given the 14 nights we go for - that's where DVC may come in and make that an affordable option! In this case, it would be studios, at least for now.

We have always got the free dining with the moderates and, although it is not always guaranteed, I think Disney would really struggle to wean people off it now. But, like you said, maybe a comparison to discounted moderates (at 20%) would be easier.

Gazing at my crystal ball, I can see us wanting to carry on going to WDW at least every other year (every year if we could afford it!) - one option I am thinking of is buying enough points on DVC to go alternate years by banking / borrowing - presumably this is a valid strategy?

Another option I have thought of is just renting DVC points whever I need it - are there many disadvatages to this, given that they don't seem to be rented at much / any premium overall (see my 'DVC as an Investment' thread where it was concluded that there is not much money to be made by renting out points)?

Thanks again!

 

[disneynutz]

Thanks everyone for your comments - some interesting views. I didn't realise this was a can of worms!

To answer some of your points:

We have travelled from the UK 4 times since 2009, staying in one of the non-Disney Downtown Disney resorts the first time and then moderate the other times (Riverside, French Quarter and Coronado) so realistically, without DVC, we would continue down that road, possibly even throwing in the new Art of Animation or an offsite villa, but Deluxe is out of our price bracket given the 14 nights we go for - that's where DVC may come in and make that an affordable option! In this case, it would be studios, at least for now.

We have always got the free dining with the moderates and, although it is not always guaranteed, I think Disney would really struggle to wean people off it now. But, like you said, maybe a comparison to discounted moderates (at 20%) would be easier.

Gazing at my crystal ball, I can see us wanting to carry on going to WDW at least every other year (every year if we could afford it!) - one option I am thinking of is buying enough points on DVC to go alternate years by banking / borrowing - presumably this is a valid strategy?

Another option I have thought of is just renting DVC points whever I need it - are there many disadvatages to this, given that they don't seem to be rented at much / any premium overall (see my 'DVC as an Investment' thread where it was concluded that there is not much money to be made by renting out points)?

Thanks again!

Maybe you should rent a split DVC reservation from an owner for your next vacation and try out 2 DVC resorts?

For your ownership if you decide to go forward, buy enough points that will allow banking every other year for the number of required points for a vacation every 2 years.

My thoughts on the dining plan is that the price will continue to increase and once you do the numbers, the cost and flexibility of paying out of pocket can be a better deal.

Bill

 

[MJ6987]

Maybe you should rent a split DVC reservation from an owner for your next vacation and try out 2 DVC resorts?

For your ownership if you decide to go forward, buy enough points that will allow banking every other year for the number of required points for a vacation every 2 years.

My thoughts on the dining plan is that the price will continue to increase and once you do the numbers, the cost and flexibility of paying out of pocket can be a better deal.

Bill

Thanks again

 

[Lorilais_mommie]

Thanks everyone for your comments - some interesting views. I didn't realise this was a can of worms! To answer some of your points: We have travelled from the UK 4 times since 2009, staying in one of the non-Disney Downtown Disney resorts the first time and then moderate the other times (Riverside, French Quarter and Coronado) so realistically, without DVC, we would continue down that road, possibly even throwing in the new Art of Animation or an offsite villa, but Deluxe is out of our price bracket given the 14 nights we go for - that's where DVC may come in and make that an affordable option! In this case, it would be studios, at least for now. We have always got the free dining with the moderates and, although it is not always guaranteed, I think Disney would really struggle to wean people off it now. But, like you said, maybe a comparison to discounted moderates (at 20%) would be easier. Gazing at my crystal ball, I can see us wanting to carry on going to WDW at least every other year (every year if we could afford it!) - one option I am thinking of is buying enough points on DVC to go alternate years by banking / borrowing - presumably this is a valid strategy? Another option I have thought of is just renting DVC points whever I need it - are there many disadvatages to this, given that they don't seem to be rented at much / any premium overall (see my 'DVC as an Investment' thread where it was concluded that there is not much money to be made by renting out points)? Thanks again!

I would look at DVC has moderate vs. DVC..
Their are many ways to do this. Adding buy in cost plus annual dues.. Some people view the buy in as a "sunk cost." Depends on how you want to look at it.
When we compared total cost to staying at port orleans river side or French with 20% off 6nights
We found it would be a good deal for us. We would break even at the 8-9 year mark.


Food I would compare dinning plan to TIW depending on where you want to eat.. You'll need to do this each trip..

 

[hakepb]

Thanks everyone for your comments - some interesting views. I didn't realise this was a can of worms!

To answer some of your points:

We have travelled from the UK 4 times since 2009, staying in one of the non-Disney Downtown Disney resorts the first time and then moderate the other times (Riverside, French Quarter and Coronado) so realistically, without DVC, we would continue down that road, possibly even throwing in the new Art of Animation or an offsite villa, but Deluxe is out of our price bracket given the 14 nights we go for - that's where DVC may come in and make that an affordable option! In this case, it would be studios, at least for now.

We have always got the free dining with the moderates and, although it is not always guaranteed, I think Disney would really struggle to wean people off it now. But, like you said, maybe a comparison to discounted moderates (at 20%) would be easier.

Gazing at my crystal ball, I can see us wanting to carry on going to WDW at least every other year (every year if we could afford it!) - one option I am thinking of is buying enough points on DVC to go alternate years by banking / borrowing - presumably this is a valid strategy?

Another option I have thought of is just renting DVC points whever I need it - are there many disadvatages to this, given that they don't seem to be rented at much / any premium overall (see my 'DVC as an Investment' thread where it was concluded that there is not much money to be made by renting out points)?

Thanks again!

One way to look at the numbers: (and there is a link to a spreadsheet that you could update to current numbers)
http://www.mousesavers.com/other-disney-vacations/disney-vacation-club/

Their general conclusion is DVC makes more sense vs a moderate when staying 10+ days/year...but that payback is long enough that I think you need to prefer staying at a DVC resort vs a moderate.

 

[nalajms]

So DVC can beat a moderate with free dining under the right circumstances.

It really depends how you value DVC when comparing. If you're looking at the "rental" rate of $11/12 per point, DVC will rarely beat moderates with free dining. If you're looking at your personal actual cost of DVC, it's probably closer to $8 or $9 per point (dues plus the cost of initial purchase with some interest thrown in), then yes DVC will win out over the FD. But that's only good for OKW & BWV standard view studios. Then the question becomes "Do I rent out my points and get FD? Do I want to stay at OKW or somewhere else?"

 

[Lorilais_mommie]

One way to look at the numbers: (and there is a link to a spreadsheet that you could update to current numbers) http://www.mousesavers.com/other-disney-vacations/disney-vacation-club/ Their general conclusion is DVC makes more sense vs a moderate when staying 10+ days/year...but that payback is long enough that I think you need to prefer staying at a DVC resort vs a moderate.

I agree with this..
I re looked over our math and reason why our 6night worked out was b/c we always upgrade to the preferred rooms or royal rooms.
For some reason we can never settle for just a base room.. ;-)

I don't know what size your family is, but we also like the benefit of having a little more room
and some DVC Resorts are within walking distance or monorail ride to some parks.. (this was a biggie for us!)
After many trips of fighting busses with our two small kids and strollers ect ect. Staying within walking or monorail distance of a park was VERY nice!


Non of this was added into our calculations , but something to think about when comparing mods. Vs. DVC

 

[crisi]

The UK gets much different "deals" than those available here. Most of the analysis that has been done has been done off of U.S. deals - UK packages tend to be far more attractive.

For instance, in the U.S. the "free dining discount" has been rack rate for the room and free dining - not much of a real discount when you realize that there is usually a 20 or 30% discount off rack rate. In the UK, people have been able to get the room discounted, plus get free dining. That's a better deal, and it would be hard for DVC to complete if Disney offers that deal to UK residents over the long term. Package tickets have also been a better deal in the UK than they are here.

I think there is still a UK DVC board and it might be a good idea to visit the UK board and ask around. MOST of the posters here will be using US assumptions. The UK board will be more up on what sorts of packages have been offered.

One thing to keep in mind is that from the UK you have two additional risks to think about - airfare costs and foreign currency exchange. If the dollar becomes strong, it can increase the cost of a trip for someone not from the U.S. And if airfare goes up - someone from Texas can drive - you are stuck with airfare at whatever the cost is. With DVC, you can't just say "we will skip the trip" - you are paying for dues if you use the points or not. So you'd need to arrange a rental if that happens - I'm not sure how much more complicated rentals get when you throw in overseas ownership.

 

[Minniesgal]

We are also from the UK and we have DVC , we didn't buy because it saved us money compared to a moderate. We used to rent offsite 3 bedroom condos and they were really cheap but to be honest staying within WDW in a 2 bedroom has not saved us money but greatly enhanced our vacations.

So to me it depends on your party make up. If we were just the two of us we would never have moved to offsite condos we probably would have continued to stay at POR and never even looked at DVC, we only became interested with 3 kids when a 2 bedroom villa was what we really wanted.

So if all you need is a hotel room and you are happy at POR then I think you will struggle to make the numbers work especially if you usually get free dining. However if you see you party size increasing above the capacity of that POR room the analysis is totally different.

Personally I don't see the point of the dining plan for DVC . We always have a full kitchen and we don't cook, but we do breakfast, snacks, ice cream, drinks, hot dogs pop corn etc in the room. For me it is hard to think of paying for the DVC facilities and eating out all the time.

In summary the value to me is in the eye of the beholder. You need to do the analysis based on your personal situation. But be aware your habits might change. We find now we have no interest or low interest in the parks and just want to stay at the resorts and do other things. The DVC rooms are ideal for that with space for everyone.

DVC is an extremely personal decision there is no one answer fits all. You really have to ask yourself what do you wan to do over the next 5-10 years and compare paying for That's versus buying DVC.

 

[ParrotBill]

When we bought (years ago) I calculated my ROI based on prevailing rates for a deluxe hotel, and found that we were paying for 8 years on our financed amount. Since the 8 year mark, our annual dues cost means we are paying for about 2 nights accommodations to get 10-14 nights worth.

We agree that without DVC we'd be staying in moderates, and the ROI would have been longer on that calculated, but I wanted to count it with the benefits of staying at the nicer places... because we would prefer to stay in deluxe resorts. Plus, these are home away from home resorts with kitchens and laundry, so they are actually a 2 category upgrade over a deluxe. And we want access to an array of restaurants and good pools.

We don't subscribe to the idea that you don't spend much time in your room; We want to be comfortable. Four adults (or two plus two teens) trip over each other in moderate and also in a deluxe. But a DVC one bedroom is space for each pair of people.

With all

 

[Dean]

When we bought (years ago) I calculated my ROI based on prevailing rates for a deluxe hotel, and found that we were paying for 8 years on our financed amount. Since the 8 year mark, our annual dues cost means we are paying for about 2 nights accommodations to get 10-14 nights worth.

We agree that without DVC we'd be staying in moderates, and the ROI would have been longer on that calculated, but I wanted to count it with the benefits of staying at the nicer places... because we would prefer to stay in deluxe resorts. Plus, these are home away from home resorts with kitchens and laundry, so they are actually a 2 category upgrade over a deluxe. And we want access to an array of restaurants and good pools.

We don't subscribe to the idea that you don't spend much time in your room; We want to be comfortable. Four adults (or two plus two teens) trip over each other in moderate and also in a deluxe. But a DVC one bedroom is space for each pair of people.

With all

I would add two issues. One, that for any such calculations the highest number used should be a discounted rack rate, 20% is usually the best average but 10% if one tends to travel at the busiest Disney times such as Christmas and Easter. The other is that DVC is not a deluxe option IMO, it's somewhere in between a moderate and a deluxe plus one is giving up other items paid for with a hotel, mainly housekeeping.