DVC point conversion vs cash inventory ?

[daisydisney]

We just spent a great deal of time on the phone with DVC trying to get into FW in mid-January....nothing available within 4 weeks (we finally gave up) of our desired date despite changing the length of stay, type of site, etc. We then decided to call WDW reservations and be a cash paying guest. No problem. Got the exact arrival date, length of stay and type of site we wanted immediately.

This brings up an interesting issue. Apparently, DVC members wishing to convert and use their points @ "The Disney Collection" take a back seat to cash paying guests.

We are quite interested in exactly how this process works as no one at DVC seems to have the knowledge or permission to explain it in detail. It is obvious however that DVC members are not "special" when seeking to use their points with The Disney Collection.

 

[DebbieB]

That happened to me last year at Disneyland. I wanted to stay at the Grand Californian. The disneyland website showed availability. I called DVC to book it on points, it was not available. When I questioned it, they said only a limited number of rooms are available for points stays. I assume DVC does this because they have to in turn rent a DVC room with CRO to the general public to pay for your non-DVC stay and they want to limit the number they may get "stuck" with.

 

[daisydisney]

I feel certain that the reason for the manipulation of inventory is to benefit Disney's bottom line and not because DVC members are "special", or warrant special consideration. Consider for a moment that Disney only recently made HSI available (at no charge) to members staying in DVC resorts....something that has been free at Motel 6, Hampton Inn, Hilton, etc, for many years.

I do believe they should be far more forthcoming regarding the inconsistency of availability within their "collections". While the caveats may be buried in fine print in some obscure location in DVC purchase literature, the prima facia impression given is that your "vacation" points can be used (exchanged) conveniently at hundreds of locations around the world. If a DVC member of 14 years cannot even get a campsite using points at Disney's own resort, I must wonder how effeciently or fairly the other exchange options work. At one point we did check into an exchange for a Sanibel Island resort and the number of points required put it out of reach, as did the convoluted reservation process. We remain satisfied DVC members when working within the DVC resort structure...but no so much when it comes to exchanges.

 

[Chuck S]

I feel certain that the reason for the manipulation of inventory is to benefit Disney's bottom line and not because DVC members are "special", or warrant special consideration. Consider for a moment that Disney only recently made HSI available (at no charge) to members staying in DVC resorts....something that has been free at Motel 6, Hampton Inn, Hilton, etc, for many years.

I do believe they should be far more forthcoming regarding the inconsistency of availability within their "collections". While it may be buried in fine print in some obscure location in DVC purchase literature, the impression given is that your "vacation" points can be used conveniently at hundreds of locations around the world. If a DVC member of 14 years cannot even get a campsite using points at Disney's own resort, I must wonder how effeciently or fairly the other exchange options work.

The free internet service is provided as an incentive to stay at Motel 6 or Hampton Inn. DVC needs not offer it free, the DVC rooms are paid for whether they sit empty or not.

DVC is, at it's core, still a timeshare, who's operating costs are paid for by our dues, like all timeshares. Nothing is "free." The internet service at Motel 6 is included in the room price, just as DVCs internet service has to be paid for somewhere...the question is, since it is now "free" how is it being paid?

Motel/hotel prices have increased dramatically over the last 15 to 20 years to cover these services. I may be showing my age, but I remember when Motel 6 really was $6 and no frills. No TV, no in room phone, and most had no bathtub, showers only.

I'm sorry you can't get your campground reservation, but really, the ability to reserve at any non-DVC location could simply disappear tomorrow, including RCI.

 

[daisydisney]

Your point that DVC does not need to "attract" occupancy lies at the heart of the problem. Once a member for the 50 year perpetuity term, they in essence no longer need to offer incentives to retain your memberhship, or continue to strive to make you feel "special".

As I advised the individual who posted "my argument against DVC", if you purchase simply to utilize the DVC resorts, I believe it is a good and suitable investment. However, based upon your statement that the "collections" could "go away tomorrow", it would appear my advice not to buy based upon the hype of the exchanges is validated.

I agree nothing in life is truly free, but nickle and diming does not constitute good business practice, nor build long-term customer loyalty. As a Disney stockholder, I certainly want the company to thrive. As a DVC member and frequent guest, I would like to come away feeling a bit more "special" with my pockets feeling a little less picked.

 

[Chuck S]

I agree nothing in life is truly free, but nickle and diming does not constitute good business practice, nor build long-term customer loyalty. As a Disney stockholder, I certainly want the company to thrive. As a DVC member and frequent guest, I would like to come away feeling a bit more "special" with my pockets feeling a little less picked.

Isn't spreading the cost of internet service into dues, in essence, "picking the pocket" of those that do not travel with a laptop for the gain of those that do? What about if dues increased to cover the DDP and make that "free" to all members all the time?

Either way we members are paying for internet, we'd also be paying higher dues if they increased housekeeping, or gave fresh towels daily. Paying higher dues rather than paying for the services you may personally use while others don't need fresh towels isn't a way to make me feel "special."

Again, nothing is free.

Discounts, on the other hand, like dining/shopping/tour discounts, cost us nothing, and are designed to increase overall participation in those venues...but there has to be something in it, like actual increases in revenue for those venues because of those discounts, to make them viable on a continuing basis.

Like any legal contract, expect Disney to fulfill their contractual obligations to DVC members, meaning that we have the right to book at our home resort based on availability. Don't expect other things, like trades, that they are not obligated to, to always be available. We've seen them change almost every year as far as point requirements, resort selections, and availability.

These are all part of the differences between a timeshare and a cash resort, and should be understood at the time of purchase.

 

[logan115]

Isn't spreading the cost of internet service into dues, in essence, "picking the pocket" of those that do not travel with a laptop for the gain of those that do? What about if dues increased to cover the DDP and make that "free" to all members all the time?

Personally, when I'm on vacation at WDW I never have a laptop so am I entitled to a discount or other perk to make up for it ? After all, my MFs are paying for it ? While I definitely appreciate all the live reports, one of my favorite things about being at WDW is the fact that for that 7 or 8 days I'm completely shut-off from the outside world, and that means no laptop for me.

Like Chuck said, just because you're not getting an itemized bill for something it doesn't mean that it's free.

The discounted APs don't work for me either, so if any part of my dues are going to "cover" this cost I'd like a reimbursement to help offset the cost of my MYW tickets. Nor does the free valet as we don't have a car while on vacation.

Now, taking the above into account, I'm perfectly happy with my membership and what I get with it, if others can take advantage of the perks that's fine with me, but I certainly don't want to see DVC going nuts with new incentives (that get buried into MF increases) that I'm not going to use.

I really like all my fellow DVCers and don't mind partially subsidizing what was included when I recently bought in (discounted APs, HSI, free valet, and the other perks), but I don't want to be paying another $100/yr so that someone else saves $100/yr. I'm a nice guy, will even buy you a beer if I meet ya down there, but if I'm going to be spending my own money OOP on you I'd prefer to be able to choose how I'm gonna do it.

Chris

 

[Chuck S]

Personally, when I'm on vacation at WDW I never have a laptop so am I entitled to a discount or other perk to make up for it ? After all, my MFs are paying for it ? While I definitely appreciate all the live reports, one of my favorite things about being at WDW is the fact that for that 7 or 8 days I'm completely shut-off from the outside world, and that means no laptop for me.

Like Chuck said, just because you're not getting an itemized bill for something it doesn't mean that it's free.

The discounted APs don't work for me either, so if any part of my dues are going to "cover" this cost I'd like a reimbursement to help offset the cost of my MYW tickets. Nor does the free valet as we don't have a car while on vacation.

Now, taking the above into account, I'm perfectly happy with my membership and what I get with it, if others can take advantage of the perks that's fine with me, but I certainly don't want to see DVC going nuts with new incentives (that get buried into MF increases) that I'm not going to use.

I really like all my fellow DVCers and don't mind partially subsidizing what was included when I recently bought in (discounted APs, HSI, free valet, and the other perks), but I don't want to be paying another $100/yr so that someone else saves $100/yr. I'm a nice guy, will even buy you a beer if I meet ya down there, but if I'm going to be spending my own money OOP on you I'd prefer to be able to choose how I'm gonna do it.

Chris

Discounts, including AP discounts, are not subsidized by dues. Disney justifies the discount by assuming it increases our park days. Also many DVCers will extend a stay a day or so by using the AP Discout on cash rooms, rather than staying offsite. I know we use the AP Discount at POP if we arrive early. This is easily tracked by Disney computer systems. If the benefit to Disney wasn't there, the perk would (and could) disappear.

Resort services, utilities and amenities, like housekeeping, pool upkeep, telephone, electricity, et cetera, are dues items.

Free valet at DVC resorts that offer valet are because the contracted valet services are partially covered by the dues at that resort as a common area resort amenity.

 

[logan115]

Discounts, including AP discounts, are not subsidized by dues. Disney justifies the discount by assuming it increases our park days. Also many DVCers will extend a stay a day or so by using the AP Discout on cash rooms, rather than staying offsite. I know we use the AP Discount at POP if we arrive early. This is easily tracked by Disney computer systems. If the benefit to Disney wasn't there, the perk would (and could) disappear.

Resort services, utilities and amenities, like housekeeping, pool upkeep, telephone, electricity, et cetera, are dues items.

Free valet at DVC resorts that offer valet are because the contracted valet services are partially covered by the dues at that resort as a common area resort amenity.

Thanks for clarifying Chuck, perhaps I listed some bad examples.

Just seems like every week there's another thread started about someone wanting more perks that may be beneficial to them that may end up being subsidized by those who don't use it.

Like I said, happy with what I got and don't expect anything else. Won't turn down any freebies, but certainly don't feel that I'm owed any.

Chris

 

[daisydisney]

I never intended to hit a such a raw nerve with my comment regarding the internet, but you are missing an important element that "allows" Disney to get away with charging 10 bucks a day. It has been free @ Hilton Head for some time, because there are so many Wi-Fi signals available at Shelter Cove that DVC couldnt maintain their exclusive stranglehold on internet access as they can on WDW property. They apparently deduced that it was better to make Wi-Fi free and at least get the Disney name and marketing in front of the guests than to hope someone would pay for DVC internet in an area rife with free signals. Given how inexpensive bandwidth is in 2009, I am curious as to an estimate of how much it costs DVC to remove the pay function from the HSI (which of course had billing and administration costs involved) and make it free. Also, if it is bandwidth cost you are concerned about being passed along to members, why not drop the "24 hours of contiguous use" packaging protocol and allow me to pay by the MB or GB used, al la carte.

Regarding the balance of DVC resorts, I do know that so many members complained about paying for HSI that DVC finally caved and made it available to DVC guests staying in DVC resorts.

As for exchanges being something to which DVC is not contractually obligated, I have a call in to my Guide to establish exactly what the bottom line is. I did just receive another in a long list of DVC marketing brochure touting "600 locations" worldwide available for exchange. If this is just a "nice to have" feature of DVC, then it should not be marketed as an integral and ongoing part of the DVC experience, or as having perpetuity.

With all due respect to Logan115, my Wife and I are both self-employed businesspeople, and cannot afford to be shutoff from the world (aka...our clients) for 7-8 days. We travel a great deal but always must do so with laptops and cell phones available. While some may think this is an inconvenience, being able to conduct business while traveling is something we feel quite fortunate to be able to accomplish as it juxtaposes work and play quite effectively.

 

[Chuck S]

For the bottom line, rather than relying upon your guide, you should look to your legal documents.

Very few things in the DVC program are guaranteed, other than the right, based upon availability, to book at our home resort using points according to the point chart, which is subject to re-allocation.

From a practical common sense standpoint, DVC has no control over RCI or Interval International, or any other trading company. They could go into bankruptcy tomorrow, or simply cease operations. There is no way Disney/DVC could guarantee that any sort of inter-timeshare trading program will be available for the entire length of your contract.

 

[daisydisney]

If you could point me toward the appropriate verbiage, it would save me a great deal of time.

 

[Modeltrf]

It is distubing to hear DVC members may not be able to make reservations at The Disney Collection despite availability! As one who just bought into DVC I can assure you the ability to make reservations with your points at all Disney World sites was heavily promoted.

I also wonder if the time of the year has anything to do with it. I do know some snow birds that use points to stay at FW. Maybe there are too many of them?

I believe we should not assume the internet fees are coming out of our MF. Many people use the internet connection and it probably pays for itself with non-DVC fees. Disney may have resisted giving it away for free as a lost revenue stream. It may not cost us anything. That being said, some of us bring our own internet service. I use an air card from AT&T and I have always got hi-speed access. Even in FW!

 

[Chuck S]

If you could point me toward the appropriate verbiage, it would save me a great deal of time.

Wouldn't it have been your responsibility to research and peruse the legal documents before you purchased? The formatting of the POS, and the order of the attachments and subdocuments change from time to time, so pointing you to a specific location in my original 1991 OKW POS would be pointless.

 

[5forDiz]

Wouldn't it have been your responsibility to research and peruse the legal documents before you purchased? The formatting of the POS, and the order of the attachments and subdocuments change from time to time, so pointing you to a specific location in my original 1991 OKW POS would be pointless.

Good post

And with all due respect OP, everyone's time is valuable

 

[Chuck S]

In my 1991 POS, the section dealing with RCI (which was the trading company at that time, before they switched to II, and back to RCI) lists details and requirements for the trades, however the final paragraph is in all capital letters. BTW, the RCI exchange program, at that time, was called Member Getaways, not the World Passport Collection.

Here are a couple sentences from that final paragraph....

DVC makes no commitment to extend or to renew the RCI agreement, DVC, subject to DVC's reasonable business judgment as to availability and economic feasibility, will use reasonable efforts to enter into another agreement of short or long duration with RCI or with another provider of exchange services so that club members will have the opportunity to avail themselves of alternative vacation opportunities through the duration of the Disney Vacation Ownership plan. There can be NO ASSURANCE, however, that DVC will be successful in doing so. Under such circumstances, Club Members may contact RCI or another provider of exchange services directly to establish individual exchange privileges. There can be NO ASSURANCE, however, that an individual Club Member will be able to satisfy the terms and conditions then required by RCI or another provider of exchange services to participate in RCI or other exchange program. If neither DVC nor the individual Club Member is successful in establishing an agreement with RCI or another provider of exchange services, the ability of an individual Club Member to request future exchanges outside of the Disney Vacation Club will cease.

 

[daisydisney]

Very few things in the DVC program are guaranteed....

You said it....I trust you are not an advocate for purchasing a membership in the DVC

 

[daisydisney]

Thank you for validating my point modeltrf

 

[daisydisney]

Chuck,

My guide will be quite dissapointed to learn that you, as a moderator, do not believe his information is reliable or worth seeking...as will anyone reading this post and considering a DVC membership.
Im not quite clear as to whether you are a Disney advocate, or simply use pragmatism to avoid accountability.

Whatever the case, we are DVC members, shareholders and passionate about the Disney experience. This does not however, excuse efforts by Disney to place the bottom line ahead of the guest or member experience. Without the support of guests, DVC members, or the consumer in general, Disney will be no better than any other corporate entity which believes that the P in Profits supplants the first letter in People !

 

[culli]

Chuck,

My guide will be quite dissapointed to learn that you, as a moderator, do not believe his information is reliable or worth seeking...as will anyone reading this post and considering a DVC membership.
Im not quite clear as to whether you are a Disney advocate, or simply use pragmatism to avoid accountability.

Whatever the case, we are DVC members, shareholders and passionate about the Disney experience. This does not however, excuse efforts by Disney to place the bottom line ahead of the guest or member experience. Without the support of guests, DVC members, or the consumer in general, Disney will be no better than any other corporate entity which believes that the P in Profits supplants the first letter in People !

Disney uses superior customer service as their competitive advantage to make profits. They are for profit and everything they do it to increase. If they say People first it is only because that is what they believe will differentiate them from others in the market. They are no longer a family run business........they are a HUGE corporate entity.

I still believe that buying DVC for anything but using at WDW or WDL is a waste. I can get into everything any DVC member trading can to for A TON CHEAPER than using my DVC pts. Of course this is my opinion but DVC is for people that value staying on property with larger accommodations. For instance I would only stay at the HH location if I wanted to get into HH for a specific time and couldn't get a trade. Example I got a Marriott HH 2br in July via trade which with MF and exchange cost was under $800 and I paid $350 including closing costs for the week I used to trade. If I stayed at HH DVC MF alone would be in the $1400+ range and that doesn't figure the original costs of the points.

I also traded into a 1br Hawaii resort with the same unit, heck they are giving away Wyndham points for almost nothing. Also because Disney control what a DVC member can and cannot do in RCI or whatever exchange company they go with in the future I also have much more options. I control my searches and I see everything in RCI or II plus I decide what exchange company I want to use (well for the most part).

Ok I even forgot what the heck point I was trying to make. But if you want to go to other places do it BUT DON'T use your DVC pts to do it unless cost isn't an issue. And I understand for some they really don't care and I understand that too but regardless it is rare that it is cost justified.