DVC Point Charts for 2011 - Post chart release discussion begins on Pg 14

[dianeschlicht]

The funny thing is I jus got off the phone with my guide this morning finding out the newest promotions. My sister and BIL are going down with me next week and I was thinking of doing a tour. If she brings it up I won't discourage them to go, but I will not be pushing them towards DVC any longer. I was excited this morning thinking they might want to buy in (they have been talking about it for a while but have never stayed DVC) but now I feel kinda embarassed like my DH and I have been taken for a ride.

I'm not sure I understand that logic. I looked at the new point charts in detail. The total number of points hasn't changed for each resort....they can't. DVC is merely rearranging the already static number of points to make sure there is a more equitable distribution of demand throughout the year and seasons and weeks. I saw on the OKW point chart where some things went down in one area but up in another....that's how it works. I don't see how that effects the value of what I bought 12 years ago at all. If my time period and unit size changed for an overall week, then I would just change when I go.

 

[lugnut33]

OK, from a business standpoint the changes are a good thing. Think about this for a minute. By lowering the weekend points they are killing two birds with one stone. First they took care of the underbooking problem they had on weekends and second when they go to market the points to new buyers the weekends do not look so expensive now. Honestly, before the reallocations the weekends looked like a ripoff when you first looked at the charts and weekdays looked cheap. Now it looks like Disney is only charging a little premium for weekend stays. You know, DVC now looks like good guys for not trying to take advantage of people who mostly end up having to travel on weekends.

The other thing it feels like they are trying to get people to the resorts when most people can travel, especially if you have kids. That would be during the summer months (and weekends). I believe there might have been a booking issue during summer.

 

[HsvTeacher]

I'm not sure I understand that logic. I looked at the new point charts in detail. The total number of points hasn't changed for each resort....they can't. DVC is merely rearranging the already static number of points to make sure there is a more equitable distribution of demand throughout the year and seasons and weeks. I saw on the OKW point chart where some things went down in one area but up in another....that's how it works. I don't see how that effects the value of what I bought 12 years ago at all. If my time period and unit size changed for an overall week, then I would just change when I go.

Have you looked at AKV's charts. I did a rough comparison and came up with 403 more points. (That, of course, is not counting the standard view GVs that are not available.)

Am I seeing something wrong? All of the weeks that we usually go are more points per week.

 

[dianeschlicht]

Have you looked at AKV's charts. I did a rough comparison and came up with 403 more points. (That, of course, is not counting the standard view GVs that are not available.)

Am I seeing something wrong? All of the weeks that we usually go are more points per week.[/QUOTE]

The highlighted part is the operative of your statement. There can NOT be 403 additional points available resort wide...it's not possible.

Okay, so I just checked it out in more detail, and for our usual weeks, ALL units had point DECREASES at AKV with the exception of the GV's which went WAY up.

 

[tidefan]

No complaints here. Our Spring THV stay will go from 318 points this year to 315 next year, so I'll pick up 3 extra points...

I think that this works out for some, not so much for others, and in the whole, it probably balances out...

 

[BroganMc]

The highlighted part is the operative of your statement. There can NOT be 403 additional points available resort wide...it's not possible.

I went through this all last year. I never got the SSR point chart to match up to equal numbers. It was always off by about 200-500 points. Only explanation I ever got was "the calendar adds some fluctuation". Again, not representative when comparing point totals over previous years but that was the official answer.

Good luck to anyone trying to get DVC to fully detail their calculations. You can scream, demand, sweet talk even offer bribes but they won't talk.

For me the one casualty of this reallocation is my BLT add-on. I bought in Jan '09, am staying for the first time April '10 and by 2011 I've been priced out of using my add on for the reason it was purchased (3 day stays in studios are down to 2).

I'm hoping I hate my BLT stay so I won't miss not going back. The points can be better used elsewhere. Are they still requiring a 100 pt add-on for BLT? If so, these points will remain in my 7 mos' pool, renters-ville or sold in a couple years (when prices rise in the resale market).

Given all those members who are gaining under 10 points and members losing the same amount, I say we start complaining mightily over the 1 tranfer per year rule. If members could freely transfer under 50 points there would be less griping among those who have shortfalls.

 

[drusba]

I did a rough comparison, and like you said, I also see a creation of points. (I didn't include the standard view GV in my numbers.) Something doesn't seem right.

I am not sure how to check but it is suspicious for AKV. The weekly totals for 1BR, 2BR, Concierge, GV, except for values (of which there are a small number) have all gone up for all weeks of the year except 1BR standard view in adventure season which went down a few points a week. Value is the only category that has decreases in multiple seasons. Same thing with studios except for 1 point per week decrease for standard view in adventure and choice season. Question is how did they keep total points the same when essentially all rooms for all weeks of the year went up except for values and many of those increases per week in a season are substantial.

 

[HsvTeacher]

Am I seeing something wrong? All of the weeks that we usually go are more points per week.[/QUOTE]

The highlighted part is the operative of your statement. There can NOT be 403 additional points available resort wide...it's not possible.

Okay, so I just checked it out in more detail, and for our usual weeks, ALL units had point DECREASES at AKV with the exception of the GV's which went WAY up.

I just added up our points again for the exact weeks we go, and the points were less with the exception of one week. Our trips are weekend heavy, though.

I did a straight comparison, so maybe it's the differences in the weeks in each season that evens everything out?

I went through this all last year. I never got the SSR point chart to match up to equal numbers. It was always off by about 200-500 points. Only explanation I ever got was "the calendar adds some fluctuation". Again, not representative when comparing point totals over previous years but that was the official answer.

Good luck to anyone trying to get DVC to fully detail their calculations. You can scream, demand, sweet talk even offer bribes but they won't talk.

For me the one casualty of this reallocation is my BLT add-on. I bought in Jan '09, am staying for the first time April '10 and by 2011 I've been priced out of using my add on for the reason it was purchased (3 day stays in studios are down to 2).

I'm hoping I hate my BLT stay so I won't miss not going back. The points can be better used elsewhere. Are they still requiring a 100 pt add-on for BLT? If so, these points will remain in my 7 mos' pool, renters-ville or sold in a couple years (when prices rise in the resale market).

Given all those members who are gaining under 10 points and members losing the same amount, I say we start complaining mightily over the 1 tranfer per year rule. If members could freely transfer under 50 points there would be less griping among those who have shortfalls.

I kept coming out with a difference of 403 points, but like you said, it may be a difference in the weeks in each season.

I am not sure how to check but it is suspicious for AKV. The weekly totals for 1BR, 2BR, Concierge, GV, except for values (of which there are a small number) have all gone up for all weeks of the year except 1BR standard view in adventure season which went down a few points a week. Value is the only category that has decreases in multiple seasosn. Same thing with studios except for 1 point per week decrease for standard view in adventure and choice season. Question is how did they keep total points the same when essentially all rooms for all weeks of the year went up except for values.

I was thinking the same thing, which is why I started adding everything up. I also compared the points per week for the weeks we usually go, and I was coming up with way more points. However, I remembered that we usually arrive on a Saturday and leave on a Sunday. When I added again, the weeks became weekend-heavy, and that gave us a break of a couple of points.

 

[Chuck S]

I kept coming out with a difference of 403 points, but like you said, it may be a difference in the weeks in each season.

It isn't that the total on the point charts add up,

It is the total for the resort for the year.

In other words,

the total number of points needed for a studio, times the number of DEDICATED studios (if any at your resort) plus the total one bedroom points needed for a year times the number of DEDICATED one bedroom units (again, if there are any at your resort) plus the number of points needed for a two bedroom unit for one year times the number of dedicated AND lockoff two bedrooms, plus the number of points needed for a year for a GV times the number of GVs at your resort. This has to be repeated for each booking category, and compared to the "base" year to see if there is any change.

A simple 403 point difference just in the chart means nothing, it is the points to reserve every room in the entire resort for a year that can not change. And no doubt there are instances where there will have to legally be monor differences, like leap year, of if a year has more weekend nghts than another year. That is why they have a "base" year for legal comparisos.

For a simple example, if a two bedroom went up by 10 points, and a GV dropped by 10 points, the simple charts would remain the same, but if there are 400 two bedroom units and 100 GV units, then the charts actually changed by 3000 points for the year.

As OKW has no dedicated studios or dedicated one bedrooms, you'd be legally working with 2 bedroom points and GV points for legal comparisons.

A fairly complicted equation to legally work with, and hence the legal "base" year needs to be considered, as well as the number of each type of unit, the length of each booking season and each booking category, if there is a point difference between categories.

 

[LisaS]

Okay, so I just checked it out in more detail, and for our usual weeks, ALL units had point DECREASES at AKV with the exception of the GV's which went WAY up.

But don't you usually stay AKV Concierge? All of them went up -- every villa size for every season for a 7-night stay. Savanna View 1BRs went up for a 7-night stay for every season except Premier. So unless you were staying only Friday and Saturday nights, if you stay AKV Concierge it's going to cost more in 2011. Same for a stay in a Savanna View 1BR, unless you go Christmas or Easter weeks.

 

[mikeandkarla]

So...If DVC is going to base the difference in weekday and weekend points based on travel patterns, will every other years points for weekends go up and down if members adjust their travel patterns to maximize their points? In other words, If weekends become booked full for 2012(because it requires less points) and weekdays are sitting with empty rooms, Will DVC increase the weekend points for 2013? Then back down for 2014? and so on... It used to be so simple.

 

[disneynutz]

IMHO Disney does little in an effort to "improve the Member experience" and most changes seem to eventually benefit the Bank of Disney. Will these changes benefit some Members, sure, but I bet that based upon todays vacation patterns, it will hurt more Members than it helps.

Last year when they moved points around, they were so busy selling add-ons and re-writing contracts that were in process, that they brought in temps from other Disney units to help screen the Guides telephone calls. It worked in 2009 and it will work in 2011.

If the only goal is to even things out, why not just do it correctly one time?

Bill

 

[Shamus]

So...If DVC is going to base the difference in weekday and weekend points based on travel patterns, will every other years points for weekends go up and down if members adjust their travel patterns to maximize their points? In other words, If weekends become booked full for 2012(because it requires less points) and weekdays are sitting with empty rooms, Will DVC increase the weekend points for 2013? Then back down for 2014? and so on... It used to be so simple.

The point adjustments for the most part have been in very small increments of 1-2 weekday points at the base level (studio/1bdrm).
DVC has done this in attempts to avoid the exact scenario of a yo-yo affect that you are describing.

 

[Shamus]

It isn't that the total on the point charts add up,

It is the total for the resort for the year.

In other words,

the total number of points needed for a studio, times the number of DEDICATED studios (if any at your resort) plus the total one bedroom points needed for a year times the number of DEDICATED one bedroom units (again, if there are any at your resort) plus the number of points needed for a two bedroom unit for one year times the number of dedicated AND lockoff two bedrooms, plus the number of points needed for a year for a GV times the number of GVs at your resort. This has to be repeated for each booking category, and compared to the "base" year to see if there is any change.

......

Chuck is correct in his explanation here.
DVC cannot just create points to add to the chart.
When it is fully calculated out by the number of each room type for the entire year, the points should generally remain the same for each room type for each resort.

 

[Shamus]

Lets all not forget that Disney is in this to make $$$$$. The more $$$$$ the happier the DIS shareholders. When you look at it from a business perspective it all makes perfect sense. Charge more points for the peak reservation times, and less for the slow times. Raising point requirements requires owners (us) to go out and buy addons to continue our vacation habits. Those who cannot affors addon will cut days off thier vacations and this opens more rooms up to disney to offer to the cash paying public. During the slow times, less required points means more reservations, which fills otherwise empty hotel rooms. The reallocation of points is designed to put money in Disney's pockets. If it had no purpose of financial gain, why else would the point charts be altered. I wish Disney would follow the principle, "If its not broken, don't fix it".

The majority of money from any additional open rooms rented out to the cash paying public, is not going into Disney's pocket. Disney (DVC and CRO) may get a small percentage of this as an administrative fee but the majority goes to offset the dues and appears as "Breakage Income" on the budget.

 

[Quilter007]

We usually stay 5 or 6 nights including Friday & Saturday because we fly in, so we gain a few points a year. It helps us a little. Perhaps this is the way DVC membership is trending (we are relatively new DVC members) and they truly are responding to what people have been requesting? It is possible! (I didn't say likely.)

 

[bookwormde]

Hakepb,

For the GVs to contribute at all to offsetting the increases elsewhere they would have had to make close to ½ Standard view and even if they did the “count” is so low that the impact would be small. It is likely that the GVs gained points along with all the other sizes.

MroganMc,

If they will not give our the calculation, all that needs to be done is to file a fomal complaint with the regulation agency and DVC will have to supply them as part of the investigation, they are then subject to FLFIA standards and can be obtained with a little patience

Chuck S

Yes to do the formal calculation you need to have how many of each size and type of unit there is, I have an algorithm to do this that I made last year. Ayone have the “counts” of units at AKV???

Shamus

DVC cannot within the ”timeshare regulations” create points, if they want to or are just not incompetent to do the calculations they certainly can create points until someone challenges them.

bookwormde

 

[BroganMc]

the total number of points needed for a studio, times the number of DEDICATED studios (if any at your resort) plus the total one bedroom points needed for a year times the number of DEDICATED one bedroom units (again, if there are any at your resort) plus the number of points needed for a two bedroom unit for one year times the number of dedicated AND lockoff two bedrooms, plus the number of points needed for a year for a GV times the number of GVs at your resort. This has to be repeated for each booking category, and compared to the "base" year to see if there is any change.

Yes, I know. I went through all these claculations last year with SSR. Breaking down total points per each room multipled by the number of rooms in each category. I ALWAYS came up with a discrepancy of more points in the 2010 vs 2009 use year. Member Services could never explain that to me but always said "we'll get back to you but our policy is that it can't happen".

Just because it is policy doesn't mean that policy is obeyed. Proof is in the figures which DVC never choses to actually show us. Instead they hide behind "member requests" and we change our schedules.

I just looked over my point calculations for SSR. My 120 pt resale (purchased at $20-50 dollars less than what Disney was selling) picks up 1 point for its intended May stays. My massive 430 pt master contract however (purchased direct from Disney) lost value to the tune of 6-13 points per year. Now if I alter my booking habits and shorten my stay from a week to 5 days, including a weekend, I'll break even. I won't be happy about it, but then Disney can lose my spending dollars. Lesson learned in this: if you're gonna buy SSR buy resale.

I was wrong about my BLT contract. I am priced out of Spring Break stays, but if I switch to May-only I'll have a 3 pt buffer. No biggie. That's what my Marriott weeks are for anyway.

Speaking of... my 4 Marriott weeks, purchased before DVC, are still worth 4 weeks. Makes me happier about that purchase. I guess I can always protest a bit more and start renting out my points (undercutting CRO) and spend more time offsite at Universal & Seaworld. They probably won't care but I can have a moral victory.

Or I can pick up some more cheap SSR points on the resale market and give myself a bigger buffer for the next round of shenanigans.

I really wonder how these yearly point reallocations are affecting the buying market. If I had just purchased in the last 2 years I'd be pretty disgruntled about now. The system does not seem stable as promised.

 

[Shamus]

The rest of the TS industry does not do it that way. DVC has listed a "maximum reallocation" for each resort where all points needed for a Studio would be equal for weeknights/weekends/every night of the year and the same for 1BRs/2BRs and GVs. While it's possible (it would need to phased in over time due to the 20% per year restriction), I don't see any need for DVC to do that.

IMO, the 2011 reallocation is pretty close to what was needed to maximize the point utilization at DVC resorts. I suspect that there will be minor tweaking at most in the coming years - unless weekends now become unavilable due to the lower point costs.

Stay tuned!

Doc - I agree that 2011 should be close to whats needed.

Also - If I recall correctly the original minimum buy-in (240 pts ?) for DVC (OKW) was based on the flat reallocation of points for a two-bedroom.

This was an important number because it guaranteed you enough points to at least have an opportunity to book a full week which could be used for external exchanges and in addition DVC could require a minimum 7-night stay.

When DVC later lowered the minimum buy-in, although they included warnings of limited membership and the potential for not being able to fully utilize the membership, IMHO DVC was doing those new members a great disservice.

 

[RobDoc]

Doc - I agree that 2011 should be close to whats needed.

Also - If I recall correctly the original minimum buy-in (240 pts ?) for DVC (OKW) was based on the flat reallocation of points for a two-bedroom.

This was an important number because it guaranteed you enough points to at least have an opportunity to book a full week which could be used for external exchanges and in addition DVC could require a minimum 7-night stay.

When DVC later lowered the minimum buy-in, although they included warnings of limited membership and the potential for not being able to fully utilize the membership, IMHO DVC was doing those new members a great disservice.

That's a very good point. The original minimum was 230 - and you are correct, when the minimum was lowered beginning in 1993 there was a caveat about possibly not being able to take advantage of all features of the program with smaller purchases.