DVC Hawaii Question

[WilsonFlyer]

Who exactly is the market for selling these points to? What I mean is...

I'm assuming that DVD's belief is that DVC is big enough and diverse enough now that it will support a resort this far away at such an exotic and expensive location.

I'm betting that if you don't own priority/home here, you'll NEVER get in. If you buy there, it should be obvious that you likely intend to go about every year.

I'm also betting that DVD will own at least 1/2 the resort which will mean cash for those rooms. Is there a legal requirement that a certain percentage of the resort(s) MUST be owned by members? I'm betting this is governed by timeshare laws in the located state?

Am I way out of bounds here or is HI just going to end up being smoke and mirrors that none of us normal folks will ever have an opportunity to stay at? Please tell me I'm wrong. DVC is likely the only way I'll ever see HI again. I'd love to think it will open the door of opportunity.

 

[CarolA]

Personally I think this will be interesting.

My impression has never been that HHI or VB were "out of the park hits" for DVC. So now they want to go to Hawaii? Hmm... And with the exception of summer you can book them fairly easily. Both of these are in locations with a key "period" While Hawaii has "peak" period it does have a more year round appeal then VB or HH. I owned HH and sold it. I will probably eventually buy something else there. The "Disney" premium just wasn't enough for the cost etc IMHO.

Disney actually is NOT a top tier hotel provider. As for timeshares... they aren't bad, but really when you compare them to the Marriott product for example they aren't the "very best" just based on room quality etc. What they have going for them in Orlando is LOCATION, LOCATION, LOCATION.

Why would you pay a premium for that product IF Hawaii was your annual goal? I am not sure of a good reason. I think they really believe "slap the Disney name on it and we can charge a premium for it" And I am not sure that's true. I am not sure there are enough folks going to make Hawaii thier "home resort" just because "it's Disney" If you want to vacation annually or even semi-annually in Hawaii I can't see this being your "first choice purchase" Maybe I will be wrong!

Honestly, if you put a Disney hotel anyplace else in the country I wouldn't bother to book it for the prices they would want LOL!

 

[WilsonFlyer]

I tend to agree with everything you've said, Carol. That's part of the reason I'm asking too. The whole thing doesn't pass the smell test. I can't imagine how they plan to fill that resort every day much less sell it out to members (new and old) unless DVD buys up a huge percentage of it up front with full intentions to CRO.

Like you said, even if they do that, they'll be hard-pressed demanding what CRO would likely demand after the first year or two of newness has worn off.

I mean, there's no Disney there. There's no other draw that lends itself to Disney's expertise (Orlando and AnaheimARKS).

It is going to be interesting IMHO. You make a good point about Marriot and the like. I think I'd be MUCH more likely to go that route if I was really looking a true timeshare that included HI.

 

[Deb & Bill]

I wonder if this project is going to be delayed with the economic turn-down. I've heard that the three person group at Disney looking at these new offsite resorts is being disbanded for the time being.

 

[5forDiz]

We're east coasters and although we love Hawaii and would love to take the kids there before they eventually all go their own ways but a trip, (granted points would be used for accommodations), would be a huge expense with airfare, etc.

I'm not an expert on what airfares from west coast (& Japan) to HI are but I'd think it'd be lower priced for them ?- maybe these folks are the 'target' demographic ?

 

[Dean]

I've posted this before. DVC cannot sell this resort the way they tried to sell VB and HH, mostly to DVC members and those that frequent WDW and their websites. If they do, this resort will fail. Thus they must be more aggressive in getting prospects in and closing the sale if they want to survive. I hope (and believe) the product they present will be comparable to the top Marriott's. They do have the opportunity to go for a mix of quality and novelty that HI has not seen thus far. Whether they can pull it off remains to be seen. I am hopeful they can because if they can't, this will be the last off property DVC resort in all likelihood. Thus many on members will be in a quandary. If DVC becomes more aggressive in sales by inviting guests to tour/buy, being more aggressive during the tour, developer specials, tour incentives and the like; many on this website will be up in arms saying "this is not the kindler/gentler DVC I once knew and loved", if they don't, the resort will fail or at best, it will be the last of it's kind. DVD can't win on this one. That's not to say they can't be professional and appropriate; Marriott, Hilton and others manage to do just that.

 

[tjkraz]

People may buy Hawaii points with the intention of using them exclusively at that resort. But reality often intervenes. Even with the smallest of DVC resorts (VWL, BCV) there are only very short periods where the entire resort is booked solid before the 7-month window.

From what I have seen, it sounds like Disney will also be putting its unique stamp on the resort in ways that they haven't at VB or HHI. Sounds like they will have a regular slate of character meals and other unique experiences with that Disney flavor.

Oh, and from what I have seen of the pool (which goes beyond the images publicly released), it may put Stormalong Bay to shame.

Honestly I can't specifically define the person who will choose to buy into the Hawaii resort. But then again it's difficult for me to conceive of the ideal VB or HHI customer either. I know DVC made some mistakes with those two resorts (10 years to sell out at VB) but Hawaii is more highly-regarded as a vacation destination so I don't think we'll see a repeat.

Above all, I think those of us who take the time to analyze these things on-line are very much in the minority. The vast majority of DVC owners do not spend this sort of time analyzing the benefit of certain Home resorts and planning small add-on purchases to fit very specific needs.

Look at the number of people here who have little or no knowledge of other timeshare systems. Once the DVC marketing machine goes into full spin, it will be an easy add-on sell for many existing members--people who have no interest in looking at what Marriott or others have to offer.

Hawaii owners will be some combination of people who want to use points there regularly, people who want that occasional 11-month window and people who just view it as a way to get into the system. During certain periods it will be hard for non-owners to book. Most times there will be 7-month availability.

 

[CarolA]

I've posted this before. DVC cannot sell this resort the way they tried to sell VB and HH, mostly to DVC members and those that frequent WDW and their websites. If they do, this resort will fail. Thus they must be more aggressive in getting prospects in and closing the sale if they want to survive. I hope (and believe) the product they present will be comparable to the top Marriott's. They do have the opportunity to go for a mix of quality and novelty that HI has not seen thus far. Whether they can pull it off remains to be seen. I am hopeful they can because if they can't, this will be the last off property DVC resort in all likelihood. Thus many on members will be in a quandary. If DVC becomes more aggressive in sales by inviting guests to tour/buy, being more aggressive during the tour, developer specials, tour incentives and the like; many on this website will be up in arms saying "this is not the kindler/gentler DVC I once knew and loved", if they don't, the resort will fail or at best, it will be the last of it's kind. DVD can't win on this one. That's not to say they can't be professional and appropriate; Marriott, Hilton and others manage to do just that.

Dean, don't you think they have to "upgrade" the product too.... Seriously I compare a 2 bedroom DVC to the Marriott Grande Ocean in HH for example and ....Disney's just not quite as nice. The Marriott product SEEMED bigger to me. (Maybe that was just me) Overall the product just felt more "upscale" And the price points are close...

Now if they go the route of Marriott and Hilton in marketing I have no issues... There are some others But I have dealt with Marriott and while the pressure was higer then Disney it wasn't at all something I look back on with horror LOL! Actually considering the "Freebies" I got from Marriott it was pretty nice!

And I don't get it. I am NOT going to Hawaii to eat with Mickey. Nice touch, but..... We are back to "slap the Disney name on it and it will sell" And a pool as the selling point.. in Hawaii? Plus the "mock ups" for other Disney pools have turned out to not exactly be "reality"

This one has some other issues. After the announcement there was a significant reduction in airline capacity to the islands... resulting in an increase in airfares. Add our current economic issues.....

I think it's going to have issues. I think they really belive "call it Disney and folks will pay... see what happens in Orlando" And it's NOT the same model!

 

[dvc_john]

Don't forget the Asian market. The Japanese are crazy for both Disney and Hawaii!

Hilton and Marriott both market extensively to the Japanese. When I was staying at a Hilton hotel next to Tokyo Disneyland, they had a kiosk in the lobby for the Hilton Hawaiian Village and Hilton Waikoloa Village timeshares.
The Hilton timeshare website also has a version in Japanese.

And last time I stayed at the Hilton timeshare in Waikiki (same trip) and they had an owners reception, well over half those attending were Japanese.

 

[Dean]

Dean, don't you think they have to "upgrade" the product too.... Seriously I compare a 2 bedroom DVC to the Marriott Grande Ocean in HH for example and ....Disney's just not quite as nice. The Marriott product SEEMED bigger to me. (Maybe that was just me) Overall the product just felt more "upscale" And the price points are close...

Now if they go the route of Marriott and Hilton in marketing I have no issues... There are some others But I have dealt with Marriott and while the pressure was higer then Disney it wasn't at all something I look back on with horror LOL! Actually considering the "Freebies" I got from Marriott it was pretty nice!

And I don't get it. I am NOT going to Hawaii to eat with Mickey. Nice touch, but..... We are back to "slap the Disney name on it and it will sell" And a pool as the selling point.. in Hawaii? Plus the "mock ups" for other Disney pools have turned out to not exactly be "reality"

This one has some other issues. After the announcement there was a significant reduction in airline capacity to the islands... resulting in an increase in airfares. Add our current economic issues.....

I think it's going to have issues. I think they really belive "call it Disney and folks will pay... see what happens in Orlando" And it's NOT the same model!

I think they have upgraded the product to a degree. If you compare AKV and BLT to say BWV and HH, you have a more upscale product. And MGO was not granite before this most recent 10 year refurbishment, it to has also been upgraded. I do think DVD has a lot of work and sole searching to do, we'll see what they come up with. I think the framework and capabilities are in place, lets see if they're willing to compete when they don't have WDW to fall back on. Unfortunately I also think DVC has to change the product itself (and pricing) to be competitive and that really isn't going to go over big on this site if that happens. Giving advantages to those that buy retail over resale, tiered benefits based on how many points you own and min stays will not be popular if they go that route. OTOH, it should be fun to participate in those threads.

 

[PamOKW]

I think this foray into Hawaii is the start of a new expansion of Disney into the general resort and timeshare market. I agree that Asia is probably a prime target for this resort. The sales will have to come from people who aren't "Disney fanatics" -- they'll need to appeal to a general timeshare owner not just a Dinsey timeshare owner. They've been successful in the cruise ship industry and I suspect this is the start of a planned expansion of their hospitality industry -- not just tied to the parks. Whether plans are going to be changed with the economic downturn will be something we'll have to wait and see.

 

[tjkraz]

And I don't get it. I am NOT going to Hawaii to eat with Mickey. Nice touch, but..... We are back to "slap the Disney name on it and it will sell"

What you may call "slapping the Disney name on it" others call "Disney Magic."

 

[CarolA]

What you may call "slapping the Disney name on it" others call "Disney Magic."

Yep and I pay for that in Orlando. I have stayed at HH. Sorry, IMHO it's a nice resort. It's not "Disney" The magic is the ENTIRE event not just your hotel!

I agree Dean it should be interesnting. The hysteria on here to any small change is already entertaining!

Folks on here say the "sales have to come from non-Disney fans" but then we see that one of Disney's "Great" ideas is character meals So as the OP said WHO is Disney selling to? Trying to be all things to all people pretty much winds up being "not right for anyone"

(And Asia is having it's own economic issues... so are they going to be willing to spend dollars for a Disney timeshare. Is timeshare even a concept they get in some parts of Asia.... Not sure about either of those! Tourism is way down in Hawaii this year.... the Asian apparently are not picking up the slack for the Americans who decided to stay home!)

 

[bethy]

I think this resort could be viewed as a sort of best of both world for people travelling with children. I love the idea of going for a nice, traditional beach vacation but doing it at a place that has a proven track record on what makes a great and relaxing multi-generation vacation. Basically I'd love a very nice beach resort with all the usual amenities plus cleanliness, high standards etc AND with the greatest possible kids' club ever! If I'm going to HI anyway and am going to go out to brunch then why not dine with Mickey, too. It's the icing on the cake! And now that I think about it if they can truly recreate that magical carefree charming atmosphere in HI that that would be just wonderful, IMO.

Plus in my travels in HI I've only really encountered 2 or 3 resorts that have a fabulous, recreational pool: Hyatt Kauai, Grand Wailea and maybe the Hilton Waikaloa Village. I'm sure there are a few others but there are many many nice resorts there just have nice, luscious pools. Swimming in HI can be scary at times, quite honestly and some folks truly prefer a great pool with the nice sounds of waves and the accompanying view in the background.

Granted I am on the West Coast so that adds to the appeal as well. I pretty much won't travel anywhere regularly where the flight is longer than 5 hours or so.

So the resort appeals to me and I'm sure I'd try and use my points there if I could someday (though I'd have to supplement with cash.) But I would never by points there. I don't want to commit to any one destination regularly ever. My nice long annual weekend at Disneyland is more than enough timeshare for me. And the occasional trip to WDW is a nice bonus too but I don't feel as tied to it thank goodness. I'm not in the market for more timeshares anytime soon.

 

[CarolA]

I think this resort could be viewed as a sort of best of both world for people travelling with children. I love the idea of going for a nice, traditional beach vacation but doing it at a place that has a proven track record on what makes a great and relaxing multi-generation vacation. Basically I'd love a very nice beach resort with all the usual amenities plus cleanliness, high standards etc AND with the greatest possible kids' club ever! If I'm going to HI anyway and am going to go out to brunch then why not dine with Mickey, too. It's the icing on the cake! And now that I think about it if they can truly recreate that magical carefree charming atmosphere in HI that that would be just wonderful, IMO.

Plus in my travels in HI I've only really encountered 2 or 3 resorts that have a fabulous, recreational pool: Hyatt Kauai, Grand Wailea and maybe the Hilton Waikaloa Village. I'm sure there are a few others but there are many many nice resorts there just have nice, luscious pools. Swimming in HI can be scary at times, quite honestly and some folks truly prefer a great pool with the nice sounds of waves and the accompanying view in the background.

Granted I am on the West Coast so that adds to the appeal as well. I pretty much won't travel anywhere regularly where the flight is longer than 5 hours or so.

So the resort appeals to me and I'm sure I'd try and use my points there if I could someday (though I'd have to supplement with cash.) But I would never by points there. I don't want to commit to any one destination regularly ever. My nice long annual weekend at Disneyland is more than enough timeshare for me. And the occasional trip to WDW is a nice bonus too but I don't feel as tied to it thank goodness. I'm not in the market for more timeshares anytime soon.

But this is EXACTLY the issue. Everyone wants to "visit" No one wants to BUY! Anyone see an issue with this model?

 

[bethy]

Hee! true! I will say that I personally don't want to buy any timeshare in HI. But then I guess the bottom line is that if I'm not buying, I'm not buying. Thus there is no sale.

It doest occur to me that something like this could be an excellent "trader" since so many people want to visit.

 

[BnADisneyDad]

I think you would see more banking and borrowing for HI if they keep that in place. Being from the east cost it is easy and pretty cheap to hop on a plane or drive down to FL for a couple of day stay once or twice a year. With HI I think you would see longer but less frequent trips. I plan to add on there if I can as long as I can still bank and borrow and then go every 3 years or so.

 

[tjkraz]

Folks on here say the "sales have to come from non-Disney fans" but then we see that one of Disney's "Great" ideas is character meals So as the OP said WHO is Disney selling to? Trying to be all things to all people pretty much winds up being "not right for anyone"

Not necessarily. I suspect Disney will create a pretty diverse product and structure its marketing to target certain groups. The promotional videos shown on WDW and DL resort TV will go heavy on the characters. Ads in travel magazines and websites will be more spa and beach-centric.

Another poster mentioned DCL and that may be a good parallel for this resort. 10-15 years ago I bet people were wondering about the market for Disney cruises. I think we'll see a lot of the same offerings in the Hawaii resort--character interaction, variety of restaurants, live performances (luau?), spa, etc.

 

[Anal Annie]

We are East coasters who in the past have gone to HI once every 5 years for a 10 day stay. The trip is just too far & the airfare too expensive to go for anything less. The other reason we only go once every 5 years is that the accomodations are fairly expensive. We HAD high hopes when they first announced Ko'Olina but now that I've seen the point charts for BLT and VGC (or whatever that's called now) I have my doubts about actually buying there. I would've hoped it would make the trip more affordable...but I'm worried what the points will run and we may have to take our chances at 7 months.

We usually island hop and Oahu is tied with Kauai for our least fav. No, actually, Kauai would be our last choice and Oahu would be the runner up. We won't stay on Kauai but we will stay on Oahu. But Maui is our island of choice for the longest part of our stay. Oahu is a stop-over island for us and the Big Island falls somewhere inbetween. Oahu is usually where we start out for 2 or 3 nights. I can possibly see splitting the stay between 5 n on Oahu and then likely paying for a cash room somewhere on Maui for 5 n now that they've switched to RCI and have cut out all of the better choices there.

Sigh. With all that in mind...once the darned place is UP and running IF the point charts are reasonable and the reviews good...we MIGHT be persuaded to go more often than once every 5 years and we might stay on Oahu for a full week. There is still too much unknown about it yet. But the price point has to be MORE AFFORDABLE than vacationing on cash and the point charts have to be reasonable for us or we'll just skip Oahu altogether. If they think they're gonna charge as much as a trade out to the Grand Wailea they can forget it! Costco's got some great cash packages. I have a limit for what I think our points are worth using them for. I want to try it at least once...but I'm really worried that they've already priced us out.

It will be a much better value for West coasters & the Asian market. Honolulu is a BIG vacation spot for the Japanese. Even the announcements in the airport are in English and Japanese and the signage is often bilingual. That tells me that there will be a big Japanese fan base.

I'm still hoping for a miracle (that it will be affordable) but am losing faith in that idea rapidly.

 

[WilsonFlyer]

But this is EXACTLY the issue. Everyone wants to "visit" No one wants to BUY! Anyone see an issue with this model?

That was sorta my point too in my OP.