DVC has stopped returning borrowed points to original use year

[Yinn]

I just called today. Canceled my April 23 - 30 trip. They returned my points that were borrowed from my Oct 2020 UY and then booked me for Oct 23 - 30 ...
She did need to partner with someone and I sat on hold for a while, but she was great and got it done.

Did you say you wanted to cancel because of a specific reason? How did you go about it?

I called yesterday and they were only handling up to March 31. I was going to sit and stay patient but its becoming more of an issue for me since my airline just cancelled my flight.

 

[Sandisw]

I think they may have an idea it’s going to go beyond current closure because the newest message makes note of not being able to make any decisions regarding banked or expiring points until they no better how long things will effect operations.

But, I agree that they should decide...or should I say announce...the extension ASAP.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

Did you say you wanted to cancel because of a specific reason? How did you go about it?

I called yesterday and they were only handling up to March 31. I was going to sit and stay patient but its becoming more of an issue for me since my airline just cancelled my flight.

Do you have borrowed points that you need to try and deal with? If not then you can still cancel online. If you do have borrowed points then I think you just need to find the right CM via multiple calls if your next call gets the same March 31st response.

 

[Cyberc1978]

I saw someone mention that it could be a legal issue if they extended the expiring points. Is that because there then would be too many points in the system? Or is it really no problem?

 

[Yinn]

Do you have borrowed points that you need to try and deal with? If not then you can still cancel online. If you do have borrowed points then I think you just need to find the right CM via multiple calls if your next call gets the same March 31st response.

I do. I have 215 points committed, 171 of which are borrowed. It stink that I would lose 44 of them if they don’t extend the banking but better than losing all of them.

 

[ljcrochet]

With FL restaurants being take out only through May 8,

Where did you see that FL restaurants being take out through May 8? I live in FL and have not heard that.

 

[LaurenT]

Did you say you wanted to cancel because of a specific reason? How did you go about it?

I called yesterday and they were only handling up to March 31. I was going to sit and stay patient but its becoming more of an issue for me since my airline just cancelled my flight.

No - I just told her that I wanted to move my trip and the online system wasn’t letting me return my borrowed points ... that I wanted to get it taken care of while there were still rooms at my home resort - before the 7 month window. She was very nice and didn’t push back at all ...

 

[Sandisw]

I saw someone mention that it could be a legal issue if they extended the expiring points. Is that because there then would be too many points in the system? Or is it really no problem?

Anything they do outside of the rules could cause an issue, I don’t think they can restore expiring points, let people bank beyond deadline, and put back borrowed points and not royally mess it up for the future,

if they do anything, the membership should just reimburse people the dues for points that expire and then add a special assessment, if warranted, to cover it...similar to what they are allowed to do if there is damage to a resort. Wont be popular, but if all past points go back, no way can it work.

Two week, sure...6 to 8 weeks...doubt it, I think the fact that they have held the line since last week when they allowed some banking beyond deadline, they realized it was impossible. I would even guess they have had data run to show how many points it could be.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

I saw someone mention that it could be a legal issue if they extended the expiring points. Is that because there then would be too many points in the system? Or is it really no problem?

Since they make the rules in this area they can change them whether temporary or not I'd believe. It's like them changing the banking rules many years ago although that was meant as a permanent change - or at least until they might decide to change that rule again.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

I do. I have 215 points committed, 171 of which are borrowed. It stink that I would lose 44 of them if they don’t extend the banking but better than losing all of them.

I'd call again then as they seem to have made a change regarding that again.

 

[Wakey]

No one could have foreseen a pandemic.

Bill Gates did- nearly exactly, shame no one in governments listened:

As to your other question, personally for international visitors I suspect we may not be getting back until post vaccine, which is looking like mid 2021. Unless it miraculously goes away, no country will allow unfettered international travel, unless they’ve developed a test to show if you are infected at the border entry, or unless you can prove you’ve had it via some government scheme (UK in advanced development of “Have I had it test”.)

Remember roughly 50% of people spreading it appear to have no symptoms (Diamond Princess data).

 

[bobbiwoz]

Where did you see that FL restaurants being take out through May 8? I live in FL and have not heard that.

https://www.wptv.com/news/state/governor-all-florida-restaurants-can-only-do-pick-up-delivery

 

[Novakm]

I saw someone mention that it could be a legal issue if they extended the expiring points. Is that because there then would be too many points in the system? Or is it really no problem?

It’s going to be a legal issue no matter what they do. Just making people forfeit banked & borrowed points they used for March is no where near enough to make up for weeks of closure. It’s just a small fraction of the points used in March.

I think the only “legal” way to do this is to refund all points not honored into next use year, and then have the full membership vote on how to solve the imbalance once the full extent of the imbalance is known.

If full membership votes, it would be pretty hard to challenge in court.

 

[Cyberc1978]

It’s going to be a legal issue no matter what they do. Just making people forfeit banked & borrowed points they used for March is no where near enough to make up for weeks of closure. It’s just a small fraction of the points used in March.

I think the only “legal” way to do this is to refund all points not honored into next use year, and then have the full membership vote on how to solve the imbalance once the full extent of the imbalance is known.

If full membership votes, it would be pretty hard to challenge in court.

DVC is not just making members forfeit their points. Every member myself included have had two to use banked points. Nobody is saying I need to wait until the very last minute to use them. Life happens and sometimes you are unable to go. This is one of the times when life happens. I’ll give you its a very unusual event but nevertheless it’s happening.

 

[Bullseye]

Last notice I've seen says they will automatically cancel any reservation scheduled for arrival during closure. So for Mid May trip if I choose to do nothing I can go on the trip if they're open, and if they're not open they will stick my 2019 points back into 2019 UY. My question is, are they not allowing you to bank those 2019 points? I haven't read that anywhere.

 

[Sandisw]

It’s going to be a legal issue no matter what they do. Just making people forfeit banked & borrowed points they used for March is no where near enough to make up for weeks of closure. It’s just a small fraction of the points used in March.

I think the only “legal” way to do this is to refund all points not honored into next use year, and then have the full membership vote on how to solve the imbalance once the full extent of the imbalance is known.

If full membership votes, it would be pretty hard to challenge in court.

Actually, the only true legal way to do it, that we know about, is to have not waived any rules,

As members, we don’t have to right to vote on things like this, The contract spells it out pretty clearly as to what the aoosication and the board of directors must seek the members to actually vote,

So, at this point, any changes they choose to make leaves it in their hands, My hope is that behind the scenes they are looking at whatever options they can implement without violating the contract above and beyond what they are doing,

I know it’s disappointing and frustrating that members could lose points, but in everything I have currently read, it’s a consequence of the system and traveling at the end of a UY.

I think we all need to be prepared that if this lasts more than 2 weeks,, there will be issues in the system and people will struggle in booking rooms down the road, and could lose points,

Personally, I think they are doing the best they can right now and working to figure it out for us, if they can, to minimize the loss of points to as many members as they can,

 

[Sandisw]

Last notice I've seen says they will automatically cancel any reservation scheduled for arrival during closure. So for Mid May trip if I choose to do nothing I can go on the trip if they're open, and if they're not open they will stick my 2019 points back into 2019 UY. My question is, are they not allowing you to bank those 2019 points? I haven't read that anywhere.

Currently, they are making no changes to the banking rules, but they said they are monitoring the situation.

So, as of today, if the resort is closed in May, and you are beyond your banking deadline when that trip is canceled, those points will expire as usual at the end of the UY.

The issue we members need to face is that we can not change rules to such a degree that it cripples the system. It is unfortunate for the members who could be on the losing end, but it’s up to DVC to make sure that if they do change the rules, it doesn’t have long term consequences that are much worse than the short term.

 

[VWLforever]

It seems to me that there is a fairly straightforward solution to excess points in the 2020 UY, that Disney could implement. Disney has only declared 28.3% of the Riviera resort for DVC. If Disney wished to accommodate the excess points in the system, all they would need to do would be to immediately upon reopening, declare 100% of the resort for DVC- and simultaneously limit or suspend direct sales, such that the existing members could use their points at RIV before those new contracts are sold to new home owners. This would even help the "white card" members, because without a doubt some "blue card" members would switch their bookings to RIV, thus freeing up inventory in the legacy resorts. And such a strategy could be carried forward when Reflections opens, if excess system points stock still exists at that time.

To be clear, there is absolutely nothing that would require DVC to adopt such a plan. And it would cost them a considerable amount of money to do this. But it seems that it would fully rectify the looming points excess crisis, buy a ton of goodwill from the membership, and get the existing system back on track.

 

[Yinn]

Or...since I’m stuck at home. And points are going to expire. Let me trade them in to pay for my Disney+ subscription.....For the next 10 years.

 

[Sandisw]

It seems to me that there is a fairly straightforward solution to excess points in the 2020 UY, that Disney could implement. Disney has only declared 28.3% of the Riviera resort for DVC. If Disney wished to accommodate the excess points in the system, all they would need to do would be to immediately upon reopening, declare 100% of the resort for DVC- and simultaneously limit or suspend direct sales, such that the existing members could use their points at RIV before those new contracts are sold to new home owners. This would even help the "white card" members, because without a doubt some "blue card" members would switch their bookings to RIV, thus freeing up inventory in the legacy resorts. And such a strategy could be carried forward when Reflections opens, if excess system points stock still exists at that time.

To be clear, there is absolutely nothing that would require DVC to adopt such a plan. And it would cost them a considerable amount of money to do this. But it seems that it would fully rectify the looming points excess crisis, buy a ton of goodwill from the membership, and get the existing system back on track.

Or just as easy, keep things as is, don’t change the rules, and suspend banking and borrowing.

But, from what they have done, it seems like they are trying to help but being mindful of the future.

As an owner, I am glad they are taking their time and making sure that the ultimate impact is good for both short term and long term.

But also remember, the Disney resorts side is suffering as well so taking that much inventory out of service for regular hotel guests makes a change like this much more difficult.