DVC Down the road...advice?

[ELMC]

They work on commission, all of them.

I know that where did I say they didn't .

Just wanted to make sure people who were new to the process understood that while you may never have felt like they were working on commission, they were.

For them to not understand that they would have to be new to reading ,not DVC .

With all due respect BDE, I think Missy's point was polite and appropriate. There are times that your posts do not effectively communicate your thoughts and clarification is needed. While I understood what you were trying to say, I can see how it is open to multiple interpretations and why Missy would want to clarify. As you know, sometimes it is easy to misread or misunderstand what someone is trying to say, as you did in this very thread with Dean's comments. I don't think there is any harm in someone trying to help clarify things for the many readers on here who don't post questions when they don't understand something.

 

[Mickey'sApprentice]

Reducing the points definitely puts it in simpler terms for consideration.

Your welcome!

We have owned 100 boardwalk points since 2006 and are very happy. My motto with DVC is buy what you need, but need what you buy. I think you will be fine either way as long as you use what you buy (to use or to rent) to the fullest.

 

[ELMC]

True, but I can imagine I would make precautions to avoid having such renters, and would cover those concerns in a rental agreement that works in my favor in case of such events.

While theoretically this is true, you really have no way of knowing who is going to stiff you and who isn't. Along those lines, there is a big difference between having a rental agreement and actually enforcing it. If it comes down to having to sue to get remuneration, it will be a lengthy and expensive process. That being said, I think the risks of renting are minimal and certainly not enough to dissuade me from doing it.

 

[minnienmickey]

She is talking about buying more points than she needs for the sole purpose of renting them out for financial gain. That is the dictionary definition of an investment. Now there's nothing wrong with this thinking as you said. But we really should call it what it is.

I suppose this is a matter of semantics. You are correct on your definition, but I am also correct. An investment Is a worthwhile endeavor equalling a favored outcome. For most DVC owners, the favored outcome will be the ability to vacation every year at Disney resorts, for me it is to vacation every other year while utilizing unused time to cover maintenance fees.

 

[minnienmickey]

Your welcome!

We have owned 100 boardwalk points since 2006 and are very happy. My motto with DVC is buy what you need, but need what you buy. I think you will be fine either way as long as you use what you buy (to use or to rent) to the fullest.

Thanks! I like the motto.

 

[minnienmickey]

While theoretically this is true, you really have no way of knowing who is going to stiff you and who isn't. Along those lines, there is a big difference between having a rental agreement and actually enforcing it. If it comes down to having to sue to get remuneration, it will be a lengthy and expensive process. That being said, I think the risks of renting are minimal and certainly not enough to dissuade me from doing it.

I agree, it is not enough to dissuade me either.

 

[ELMC]

I suppose this is a matter of semantics. You are correct on your definition, but I am also correct. An investment Is a worthwhile endeavor equalling a favored outcome. For most DVC owners, the favored outcome will be the ability to vacation every year at Disney resorts, for me it is to vacation every other year while utilizing unused time to cover maintenance fees.

I understand what you are saying, but I disagree that it is a matter of semantics (as well as with your definition of an investment). You can frame it however you choose, but we are talking about money here. You are talking about dedicating extra money towards the purchase of a DVC contract above and beyond what you need for your personal vacations for the purpose of renting out those extra points and using the money gained to pay your expenses. This is an investment. You could just as easily purchase half the points and bank from one year to the next to go on vacation every other year. This would not be an investment, it would be a timeshare purchase (an expense). I'm predicting that you're going to say that this is an investment in your vacations, or your happiness, or your family...it's been said a million times. I'm sorry but that's timeshare salesperson talk and I don't buy it. You're not investing in your happiness, you're spending money to help experience happiness. While perfectly normal and a great thing to do, it's not an investment.

If you are set on purchasing extra points to rent, you should really consider all options for that money to determine what produces the best outcome. It might very well be that putting that money in a low risk, tax free municipal bond fund might yield enough to pay your maintenance fees on a right size contract better than your proposed plan. It certainly would limit your risk.

I'm not arguing with you for the sake of it, and I'm not trying to shoot down your plan or trying to make you feel bad. I actually like the way you are thinking. But you asked for advice and whether or not we saw any holes in your plan. My advice is that your plan may be fundamentally flawed and until you do an honest comparison analysis of the different options of the excess money you plan on spending, you have no real way of knowing if this is a viable option for you.

As far as the purchase of points for your personal use, if you think you can afford it and it makes you happy, go right ahead and spend the money.

 

[MoreTravels]

True, but I can imagine I would make precautions to avoid having such renters, and would cover those concerns in a rental agreement that works in my favor in case of such events.

Most renters do not need to provide any photo ID to rent from here. If any DVC member insists on getting SSN and Passport copy before renting, he or she will likely lose that business.

As a result, anyone can get a pre-paid cell phone and gift MasterCard, open an online account, and rent from someone here with any name as they wish. Your rental agreement or contact information really offer no protection in case of a dispute, especially an intended one. They can also use their fake ID, the ones for bar entry, to check in.

I can just imagine some college students trying to party for spring break... getting DVC rentals for their wild acts.

You are taking a risk, albeit a small one, but not zero.

 

[RSWA2]

OP, I think we can all agree that we don't know what Disney will do or what the market will be like for resales 30+ (or even 1 or 5 years) from now. Maybe they put more restrictions for new non-direct buyers, such as only staying in the home resort, or something. That would really change the market.

With regards to renting points during the times you don't go. Maybe just buy enough points to go, every other year, like you want. And then with the other half of the money that you've saved up, invest it, or buy some other financial vehicle to cover the MFs. Posters have point out the potential negatives with renters. I'm not sure how often that happens, but as they always say, it only takes 1.

Just like with most finances, you want to find multiple ways to protect against any potential loss. You want to diversify yourself. I would say to pay DVC expenses with more DVC wouldn't be a financially smart thing. $10000 with an average 5% growth compounded monthly will produce $511.62 in a year.

 

[minnienmickey]

If you are set on purchasing extra points to rent, you should really consider all options for that money to determine what produces the best outcome. It might very well be that putting that money in a low risk, tax free municipal bond fund might yield enough to pay your maintenance fees on a right size contract better than your proposed plan. It certainly would limit your risk.

I'm not arguing with you for the sake of it, and I'm not trying to shoot down your plan or trying to make you feel bad. I actually like the way you are thinking. But you asked for advice and whether or not we saw any holes in your plan. My advice is that your plan may be fundamentally flawed and until you do an honest comparison analysis of the different options of the excess money you plan on spending, you have no real way of knowing if this is a viable option for you.

As far as the purchase of points for your personal use, if you think you can afford it and it makes you happy, go right ahead and spend the money.

No worries. I am looking for logical, viable options, and, I'm weighing/considering everyone's opinions. A lot of points that I'm considering I'm poking at until I understand the logic behind it.

I do want to own DVC, for many reasons I have not outlined here, mainly because I feel it's beside the point; some may have financial value (saving on food by cooking) and others (such as having a reason to visit the parks more frequently and I just like the resorts) have no monetary value. I'm just not going to hand my money over to a salesperson because it makes me feel good. That's not me.

 

[minnienmickey]

Most renters do not need to provide any photo ID to rent from here. If any DVC member insists on getting SSN and Passport copy before renting, he or she will likely lose that business.

As a result, anyone can get a pre-paid cell phone and gift MasterCard, open an online account, and rent from someone here with any name as they wish. Your rental agreement or contact information really offer no protection in case of a dispute, especially an intended one. They can also use their fake ID, the ones for bar entry, to check in.

I can just imagine some college students trying to party for spring break... getting DVC rentals for their wild acts.

You are taking a risk, albeit a small one, but not zero.

Honestly, I would try to sell my points within my own personal network before reaching out to strangers, but even then it's a risk.

 

[minnienmickey]

OP, I think we can all agree that we don't know what Disney will do or what the market will be like for resales 30+ (or even 1 or 5 years) from now. Maybe they put more restrictions for new non-direct buyers, such as only staying in the home resort, or something. That would really change the market.

With regards to renting points during the times you don't go. Maybe just buy enough points to go, every other year, like you want. And then with the other half of the money that you've saved up, invest it, or buy some other financial vehicle to cover the MFs. Posters have point out the potential negatives with renters. I'm not sure how often that happens, but as they always say, it only takes 1.

Just like with most finances, you want to find multiple ways to protect against any potential loss. You want to diversify yourself. I would say to pay DVC expenses with more DVC wouldn't be a financially smart thing. $10000 with an average 5% growth compounded monthly will produce $511.62 in a year.

Thanks for the input, I am putting it on the list.

 

[JustTinking]

I understand what you are saying, but I disagree that it is a matter of semantics (as well as with your definition of an investment). You can frame it however you choose, but we are talking about money here. You are talking about dedicating extra money towards the purchase of a DVC contract above and beyond what you need for your personal vacations for the purpose of renting out those extra points and using the money gained to pay your expenses. This is an investment. You could just as easily purchase half the points and bank from one year to the next to go on vacation every other year. This would not be an investment, it would be a timeshare purchase (an expense). I'm predicting that you're going to say that this is an investment in your vacations, or your happiness, or your family...it's been said a million times. I'm sorry but that's timeshare salesperson talk and I don't buy it. You're not investing in your happiness, you're spending money to help experience happiness. While perfectly normal and a great thing to do, it's not an investment.

If you are set on purchasing extra points to rent, you should really consider all options for that money to determine what produces the best outcome. It might very well be that putting that money in a low risk, tax free municipal bond fund might yield enough to pay your maintenance fees on a right size contract better than your proposed plan. It certainly would limit your risk.

I'm not arguing with you for the sake of it, and I'm not trying to shoot down your plan or trying to make you feel bad. I actually like the way you are thinking. But you asked for advice and whether or not we saw any holes in your plan. My advice is that your plan may be fundamentally flawed and until you do an honest comparison analysis of the different options of the excess money you plan on spending, you have no real way of knowing if this is a viable option for you.

As far as the purchase of points for your personal use, if you think you can afford it and it makes you happy, go right ahead and spend the money.

ELMC makes some great points. I've owned for 10 years, but have never rented. I thought there were contractual terms that DVD put in all the contracts that if they saw a pattern of renting (I.e., you rented frequently) they would stop it. But the resalers all offer rent programs, so I'm a little confused on the current practice. Can anyone clarify?

 

[Missyrose]

ELMC makes some great points. I've owned for 10 years, but have never rented. I thought there were contractual terms that DVD put in all the contracts that if they saw a pattern of renting (I.e., you rented frequently) they would stop it. But the resalers all offer rent programs, so I'm a little confused on the current practice. Can anyone clarify?

DVC has banned "commercial renting," which they've defined as 20 or more rentals per membership per year. I don't believe this is in the POS so Disney can change it at anytime or enforce renting rules differently.

For me, I look at renting as a nice perk if there comes a year where I cannot use or bank my points. It's not something I rely on as a central part of my DVC ownership. So if Disney slashed the number of rentals per year they would allow, it wouldn't affect me all that much.

The only other time where counting on renting can be very helpful is when you first buy a loaded contract and can't use all the banked points in time.

For any DVC purchase, your value will be in the use. So buying a small contract at a resort you will enjoy will almost always work better than buying double the points at a resort you don't care for that was picked simply because of its end date.

 

[Dean]

True, but I can imagine I would make precautions to avoid having such renters, and would cover those concerns in a rental agreement that works in my favor in case of such events.

For DVC, a rental agreement really only serves to communicate information. It would be unrealistic in most cases to go after someone for the dollars involved but even if one received a judgement, being paid successfully would be another matter. The ways to protect ones self are to rent early in the UY ONLY current UY points then to have an effective deposit and payment policy that included a no refund clause.

I suppose this is a matter of semantics. You are correct on your definition, but I am also correct. An investment Is a worthwhile endeavor equalling a favored outcome. For most DVC owners, the favored outcome will be the ability to vacation every year at Disney resorts, for me it is to vacation every other year while utilizing unused time to cover maintenance fees.

IF it's an effective option, why not buy 10K points or more and rent them all out. I can tell you from personal experience that the amount of time and effort is not worth it financially. On my end I simply have enjoyed the people part of it plus I already owned the points, renters are so much more appreciative than owners it seems. IMO it only makes sense for one who only needs a smaller contract and can't find an appropriate one or one who needs more points later and wants to get them all now.

 

[minnienmickey]

For DVC, a rental agreement really only serves to communicate information. It would be unrealistic in most cases to go after someone for the dollars involved but even if one received a judgement, being paid successfully would be another matter. The ways to protect ones self are to rent early in the UY ONLY current UY points then to have an effective deposit and payment policy that included a no refund clause.

Good information. I agree, in most cases it would be unrealistic to go after anyone, especially for something minimal.

IF it's an effective option, why not buy 10K points or more and rent them all out. I can tell you from personal experience that the amount of time and effort is not worth it financially. On my end I simply have enjoyed the people part of it plus I already owned the points, renters are so much more appreciative than owners it seems. IMO it only makes sense for one who only needs a smaller contract and can't find an appropriate one or one who needs more points later and wants to get them all now.

I'm sure it would be effective, but not practical just as you said.

 

[minnienmickey]

DVC has banned "commercial renting," which they've defined as 20 or more rentals per membership per year. I don't believe this is in the POS so Disney can change it at anytime or enforce renting rules differently.

For me, I look at renting as a nice perk if there comes a year where I cannot use or bank my points. It's not something I rely on as a central part of my DVC ownership. So if Disney slashed the number of rentals per year they would allow, it wouldn't affect me all that much.

The only other time where counting on renting can be very helpful is when you first buy a loaded contract and can't use all the banked points in time.

For any DVC purchase, your value will be in the use. So buying a small contract at a resort you will enjoy will almost always work better than buying double the points at a resort you don't care for that was picked simply because of its end date.

Do members with more points get more discounts? I think somebody mentioned that.

 

[Missyrose]

Do members with more points get more discounts? I think somebody mentioned that.

Nope. Someone with a 50-point contract has the same access to discounts as someone with point total of 1000+.

 

[Dean]

I'm sure it would be effective, but not practical just as you said.

To me it makes more sense to buy a lot of points and do it on a larger scale than just end up with around one rental a year. The return vs the risk simply isn't there, IMO. I try to keep things as clean and simple as possible unless I'm getting a dramatic return or benefit this approach adds significant risk and potential complications with relatively little return potential.