DVC Direct Economics

[Duckbug.Ducktales]

Amen. IIRC I had 31 Citi HHonors cards back when you could get two new ones every 60 days and Citi hasn’t forgiven me.

Ha, y'all play rough! Lol

 

[broncofan]

Thanks to all for a fun discussion. It is really interesting to see how everyone views the various DVC purchase options - it's a very unique product and decision so it should be no surprise that there are a wide variety of viewpoints!

As much as I'm still convinced the direct pricing is too high to make sense, it also occurs to me that life isn't just about making the best financial decision. You buy a luxury product of any kind to enrich your life, and it would be easy to argue that DVC direct makes way more sense than almost any other luxury product. Let's face it, if making the best financial decisions was the only consideration we wouldn't be going to Disney World all that often !

 

[tom1944]

Thanks to all for a fun discussion. It is really interesting to see how everyone views the various DVC purchase options - it's a very unique product and decision so it should be no surprise that there are a wide variety of viewpoints!

As much as I'm still convinced the direct pricing is too high to make sense, it also occurs to me that life isn't just about making the best financial decision. You buy a luxury product of any kind to enrich your life, and it would be easy to argue that DVC direct makes way more sense than almost any other luxury product. Let's face it, if making the best financial decisions was the only consideration we wouldn't be going to Disney World all that often !

There are so many different stories and justification for a DVC purchase it is really a unique decision for every family.

I originally wanted to purchase back in 1996 and we could have but it would have come with some financial stress and limited our ability to make other financial decisions. We went to Disney a few times since and I always wished we had a membership.

I was at the same employer for over 40 years so in that time I basically knew every other employee and so many of them had memberships. At least 20 families. Every family had a different economic situation but were happy they were owners.

When I was going to retire, I accumulated 2 years of vacation time and was able to receive a check for the time. By this time our economic situation was the best it ever was. We had a fully funded retirement, a paid off house, we had paid for college and a wedding, and we had additional monthly income so that we could fund our granddaughters 529.
Basically, I saw my vacation time money as "free money" that I should blow on a "we want but do not need" gift to all of us. I also wanted to provide my daughter and granddaughter the ability to vacation because sadly their family situation had a setback.

Our timing luckily came with prices trending down we did not buy at the bottom but did okay. Because this is new to us, I limited our point purchase, and we figure we will see how we use the original 180 points we buy. We will have until August 2025 to decide if we should buy more points based on how often we will visit - every year? Every other year?
It also gives me time to decide and make the case to my wife why direct points make sense.

I also enjoy all the research that goes into the purchase decision. Where should we buy, how many points should we buy, should we buy direct, when will we go, how many points and the cost of fees make sense. Add in the vacation planning and I really enjoy the process.

The final piece is I enjoy this site the people are nice, and the information is great. The entire process has been a small but enjoyable part of my retirement.

 

[nalabear]

Would it be possible that they are adding a new skyliner station? I saw people here talking about it going from Coronado Springs to Magic Kingdom.

Until the court cases clarify control and approval; any mass transportation projects and funding will be on hold unfortunately.

 

[nalabear]

Now, the discussion is 40K for 200 direct points vs 20K for 200 SSR points. So the discussion is to pay 20K plus another 20K to stay at new DVC hotel.

Exactly our point of view. Resale will lock you into Legacy DVC for sure and that should be taken into account. The biggest loser would be AUL probably as the last legacy DVC to activate and will gradually lose out on the other resorts as the deeds expire.

I think 25 years from now it will be interesting to see what the landscape and discussion is between Legacy and DVC 2.0 is. Currently the price of direct really reflects two new places VDH and RIV for the differential cost of 150$ pp along with blue card benefits, which are not rich enough to close that gap for many (including myself...sadly.)

Would love to get into VDH, but the differential doesn't pencil out.

 

[buzlite]

Agree with this, there is nothing stopping a resale owner from renting points out and staying at the shiny new resorts or paying cash with the savings as you suggest.

It's entirely OK, but a direct purchase is an emotional one more than a financial or flexibility one, and again, nothing wrong with that at all.

To stay at an equivalent room in a new resort I would have to rent out my points and then rent points at the new resort. I would also probably need to add a bit of cash due to costs from the renting company. At that point why am I even buying DVC. I might as well save my money and just rent. But with my direct DVC I don’t need to budget each year. Each time a new resort is built it feels like a new home I can try. Calling direct emotional and resale a logical decision is disingenuous. Every financial decision beyond basics of survival has a component of emotion. The question is what is the best way financially to produce long term happiness vs a short term dopamine surge from buying a fancy shiny new product.
Buying direct also let us purchase the exact amount of points we wanted, use a credit card to collect a bunch of points, choose our use year, and get the benefits of a blue card.
My point is not that direct is better or a better financial option. Resale is great if you want a cheap way to visit wdw every year. Direct is great if you view Disney as a lifestyle travel program and want access to the new exciting things.
Modern tourism is basically almost always an emotional idea. The question is whether your financial decisions produce short term or long term emotional wellness. For me resale would have left me disappointed and made me feel like I paid more for less. Now I feel I paid more for more and get excited about everything new.

 

[lilsonicfan]

... Calling direct emotional and resale a logical decision is disingenuous.
... For me resale would have let me disappointed and made my feel like I paid more for less. Now I feel I paid more for more and get excited about everything new.

I think both direct and resale purchases of DVC are emotional. I really don't think either one of them is particularly logical; although maybe an argument could be made if you were in fact going to vacation at WDW 1-2x per year without fail for the length of the contract.

I am still thrilled about my resale contract. I certainly don't feel like I paid more for less. I feel like I paid WAY WAY LESS for not that much less of a product. My 250 points cost $20,000; as a new member, direct with incentives would have placed an AKL purchase at $45,250, and VGF at $50,500. Frankly, even my $20,000 purchase isn't really logical ... it's just fun and I'm lucky to have the option at all. I think those who want direct should do it!

 

[disneyfan123]

Our first contract was a resale one at SSR, but when VGF2 was released we bought direct, and had a really good discount. We got a 200 point contract for about $4000 more than what resale was priced at that time. That was worth the unrestricted points, plus we have taken advantage of the discounts on food and merchandise, so the gap wasn't big enough to warrant a resale purchase.

If we were in the market today, however, the numbers are totally different and I'd go resale all the way. It really depends on what resort you want and how many points you need, when deciding if it's worth it to buy direct vs. resale. Also, as others have mentioned, the landscape is beginning to shift with restricted resorts. It will be very interesting to see what things look like 20 years down the road when the original resorts are out of commission.

 

[tom1944]

Our first contract was a resale one at SSR, but when VGF2 was released we bought direct, and had a really good discount. We got a 200 point contract for about $4000 more than what resale was priced at that time. That was worth the unrestricted points, plus we have taken advantage of the discounts on food and merchandise, so the gap wasn't big enough to warrant a resale purchase.

If we were in the market today, however, the numbers are totally different and I'd go resale all the way. It really depends on what resort you want and how many points you need, when deciding if it's worth it to buy direct vs. resale. Also, as others have mentioned, the landscape is beginning to shift with restricted resorts. It will be very interesting to see what things look like 20 years down the road when the original resorts are out of commission.

I believe we need about 300 total points. We have 180 now. Getting the next 120 points could be done over the next 3 or 4 years incrementally without having a negative impact on our potential vacations.

 

[Drewski77]

To stay at an equivalent room in a new resort I would have to rent out my points and then rent points at the new resort. I would also probably need to add a bit of cash due to costs from the renting company. At that point why am I even buying DVC. I might as well save my money and just rent. But with my direct DVC I don’t need to budget each year. Each time a new resort is built it feels like a new home I can try. Calling direct emotional and resale a logical decision is disingenuous. Every financial decision beyond basics of survival has a component of emotion. The question is what is the best way financially to produce long term happiness vs a short term dopamine surge from buying a fancy shiny new product.
Buying direct also let us purchase the exact amount of points we wanted, use a credit card to collect a bunch of points, choose our use year, and get the benefits of a blue card.
My point is not that direct is better or a better financial option. Resale is great if you want a cheap way to visit wdw every year. Direct is great if you view Disney as a lifestyle travel program and want access to the new exciting things.
Modern tourism is basically almost always an emotional idea. The question is whether your financial decisions produce short term or long term emotional wellness. For me resale would have left me disappointed and made me feel like I paid more for less. Now I feel I paid more for more and get excited about everything new.

Apologies for my post coming off negatively, tried to couch it at the beginning and end to avoid what I know is a touchy subject.

You are also correct about there being an emotional component to both a direct and resale purchase. However, if the overall proposition of DVC is to save money on future vacations: Then resale is the more economical and less emotional choice, the numbers simply bear this out.

However, as I said previously, there is nothing wrong or bad about someone wanting to buy direct for what that brings. An important point though with direct:

Direct doesn't guarantee that a person will get to stay at non-home resorts such as RIV, VDH, and future ones. It gives a person the chance at 7 months to do this, but it is not a guarantee.

If someone wants to guarantee access to RIV, VDH, and future resorts, this could be done by buying resale (saving thousands of dollars) and using those savings (and earnings on the savings) to pay cash for future stays at restricted resorts. Which, unlike the 7 month possibility, can be guaranteed with cash. The resale purchaser could further assist with the payment by renting their resale points, but certainly wouldn't have to.

Again, there is no right or wrong, just important to point out that there are options for a resale owner to utilize their DVC AND stay at restricted resorts if desired.

Apologies again for coming off as negative, and no matter what option, direct or resale, I think DVC is a great choice for those who enjoy being in the Disney bubble like we do.

 

[Sandisw]

Apologies for my post coming off negatively, tried to couch it at the beginning and end to avoid what I know is a touchy subject.

You are also correct about there being an emotional component to both a direct and resale purchase. However, if the overall proposition of DVC is to save money on future vacations: Then resale is the more economical and less emotional choice, the numbers simply bear this out.

However, as I said previously, there is nothing wrong or bad about someone wanting to buy direct for what that brings. An important point though with direct:

Direct doesn't guarantee that a person will get to stay at non-home resorts such as RIV, VDH, and future ones. It gives a person the chance at 7 months to do this, but it is not a guarantee.

If someone wants to guarantee access to RIV, VDH, and future resorts, this could be done by buying resale (saving thousands of dollars) and using those savings (and earnings on the savings) to pay cash for future stays at restricted resorts. Which, unlike the 7 month possibility, can be guaranteed with cash. The resale purchaser could further assist with the payment by renting their resale points, but certainly wouldn't have to.

Again, there is no right or wrong, just important to point out that there are options for a resale owner to utilize their DVC AND stay at restricted resorts if desired.

Apologies again for coming off as negative, and no matter what option, direct or resale, I think DVC is a great choice for those who enjoy being in the Disney bubble like we do.

Yes, a resale owner can certainly pay cash or rent points to stay at a restricted resort

And, right now, with RIV and VDH being the only two, it may be doable. But down the line? It may end up not only being a bit more work, but more expensive and eat into any savings one got, if the restricted ones become choices other want.

I agree..no right or wrong way and it really does depend how important it is to where one stays.

 

[Drewski77]

Yes, a resale owner can certainly pay cash or rent points to stay at a restricted resort

And, right now, with RIV and VDH being the only two, it may be doable. But down the line? It may end up not only being a bit more work, but more expensive and eat into any savings one got, if the restricted ones become choices other want.

I agree..no right or wrong way and it really does depend how important it is to where one stays.

Good points, and it does take some work for a resale owner to stay at restricted resorts.

However, I do think it's important that those who buy direct understand (I know you do) that the ability to use non-home resorts is not guaranteed, and is subject to availability at 7 months.

It's often talked about as if direct points guarantee access to restricted resorts, but this is not the case and it's an important distinction.

But, certainly a chance to use a restricted resort is more than what a person gets with resale, and it's just a question of how much a person values this chance in comparison to resale savings.

 

[Sandisw]

Good points, and it does take some work for a resale owner to stay at restricted resorts.

However, I do think it's important that those who buy direct understand (I know you do) that the ability to use non-home resorts is not guaranteed, and is subject to availability at 7 months.

It's often talked about as if direct points guarantee access to restricted resorts, but this is not the case and it's an important distinction.

But, certainly a chance to use a restricted resort is more than what a person gets with resale, and it's just a question of how much a person values this chance in comparison to resale savings.

Absolutely no guarantee…but resale 100% guarantees you don’t have a chance…

You do hear the same argument, though, regarding resale…which is it still gives you a lot of options at 7 months…so being shut out of new isn’t a big deal., Direct or resale, trading is not guaranteed.

When the 2042 resorts are gone, regardless of what happens, it really limits those with resale points to the big three.

Most resale BLT, Poly, CCV, and VGF owners are not buying to SAP…and if they are, it may be to to try for BCV or BWV…but I don’t think the bulk are trading out to stay at those easy to get resorts.

That’s why I think ii is more important now to make sure you are okay with where you are buying resale because the ease at which to use SAP is changing…

 

[Drewski77]

Absolutely no guarantee…but resale 100% guarantees you don’t have a chance…

You do hear the same argument, though, regarding resale…which is it still gives you a lot of options at 7 months…so being shut out of new isn’t a big deal., Direct or resale, trading is not guaranteed.

When the 2042 resorts are gone, regardless of what happens, it really limits those with resale points to the big three.

Most resale BLT, Poly, CCV, and VGF owners are not buying to SAP…and if they are, it may be to to try for BCV or BWV…but I don’t think the bulk are trading out to stay at those easy to get resorts.

That’s why I think ii is more important now to make sure you are okay with where you are buying resale because the ease at which to use SAP is changing…

Yes, I mentioned that a chance with direct is more than what a person gets with resale. And yes, no guarantees of trading into resorts whether you are a resale or direct buyer.

The only guarantees are an 11 month booking advantage for your home resort, significant savings buying resale, and the chance to trade into restricted resorts with blue card benefits for paying a lot more for direct.

And I think buying where you are OK with staying is good advice for direct and resale owners:

As who knows what availability will be like at 7 months for restricted resorts when resale owners at these resorts can only stay there, could be harder for direct owners of other resorts to trade into.

 

[Cfabar1]

As who knows what availability will be like at 7 months for restricted resorts when resale owners at these resorts can only stay there, could be harder for direct owners of other resorts to trade into.

This cannot be emphasized enough…. Direct owners are going to lose on this change in some ways as well… Resale truly has to be buy where you want to stay right now. For me that is VGF, BW, BCV, and BLT right now…. I’m not comfortable with BLTs expiration date given my age and the price premium. I’d consider BW if I got a good deal, but the 2042 thing is a big deal for me…. Also, as I have said before, and others may disagree, for those of us who stay only a couple nights at a time the value add between Swolphin and BW/BC is marginal, especially with the fact Swolphin now has actual suites available in the Swan Reserve Collection.

To me, VGF, direct or resale is probably the best way to go right now…. There is an attractive correlation between direct and cash rates. Resale is even more attractive, but you do lose certain things… Also, it is the flagship resort. Going against it is a nasty points chart, for those of us on the younger side 2064 expiration, and the fact another resort for less points is an easier walk to MK. If you’re a gambler, maybe Aulani (subsidized ideally) resale is another good way to go hoping you can trade in - which you’ll be able to do until 2042 or so… after, harder to predict….

The pet friendly thing at wilderness lodge cabins has the potential to be huge…. Biggest questions is will the couch be a pull out sofa and will there be a door on the “master” bedroom…. Making it feel like a designated 1 BR will be very important….

I think DVC’s obituary is far from over, and that Direct still offers many advantages… The program is changing and there are lots of unknowns, but I do think DVC has done some things really well recently - the resorts are much more attractive than in the old days, the locations are more convenient than OKW/SSR/AKV, and they seem to be pursuing a more luxury product, which is nice.

 

[TT4Dis]

My husband and I have 200 resale points (100 BRV and 100 AKV). I would love to have 100 more to give us a 1 bedroom for 6 nights during spring break. Ideally I’d love to buy unrestricted direct points to trade into future resorts but I get hung up on direct prices. It’s just a little easier for me to rationalize 100-150 more points at $105pp than $200+ for direct.

We are older parents (50 and 60) of a 6 year old so will be taking annual trips for the foreseeable future. But, we don’t have intentions of holding until contract expiration for anything longer than 2042.

So, for those that have decided direct was the right answer, other than member events and ability to have unrestricted points is there any other factor that swayed you to choose direct over resale, especially if you were in an older demographic?

 

[tom1944]

My husband and I have 200 resale points (100 BRV and 100 AKV). I would love to have 100 more to give us a 1 bedroom for 6 nights during spring break. Ideally I’d love to buy unrestricted direct points to trade into future resorts but I get hung up on direct prices. It’s just a little easier for me to rationalize 100-150 more points at $105pp than $200+ for direct.

We are older parents (50 and 60) of a 6 year old so will be taking annual trips for the foreseeable future. But, we don’t have intentions of holding until contract expiration for anything longer than 2042.

So, for those that have decided direct was the right answer, other than member events and ability to have unrestricted points is there any other factor that swayed you to choose direct over resale, especially if you were in an older demographic?

That would be our situation.

My wife and I are 65 so contracts ending in 2042 were probably fine for us. We put our daughter on the deed and since she is 33 we decided to go for a longer contract. We originally tried BLT but I could not get a deal I wanted in time, so we purchased at SSR and I booked an August trip and we are staying at BLT using the SSR points.

I believe we will add more points over the next 2 or 3 years and I figured I would try to get a BLT contract. The new Poly resort is making me rethink that plan-but only if it is a new association.

One reason is because we have a 4-year-old granddaughter and in 15-20 years she can be added to the deed if it makes sense when the time comes. Having that option is reason to go out to 2070 or beyond.

 

[MartyParty]

My husband and I have 200 resale points (100 BRV and 100 AKV). I would love to have 100 more to give us a 1 bedroom for 6 nights during spring break. Ideally I’d love to buy unrestricted direct points to trade into future resorts but I get hung up on direct prices. It’s just a little easier for me to rationalize 100-150 more points at $105pp than $200+ for direct.

We are older parents (50 and 60) of a 6 year old so will be taking annual trips for the foreseeable future. But, we don’t have intentions of holding until contract expiration for anything longer than 2042.

So, for those that have decided direct was the right answer, other than member events and ability to have unrestricted points is there any other factor that swayed you to choose direct over resale, especially if you were in an older demographic?

Yes, it’s an interesting choice. My wife and I are early 50s with our two daughters early 20s and no families of their own yet. We are all direct with our points. Started with 190 but have added 40, 110, and 65.

• They simplest way I’ve rationalized it is if just for me and my wife then resale and shorter expiration dates make sense.
• Since we intend to pass on to family then direct works as I want them to enjoy the maximum flexibility and benefits (us as well while we here!).
• If it doesn’t work out that the family wants the points, I’ve structured them in to smaller contracts to sell down, recoup some of the costs, and keep only what my wife and I need.
• At some point as we approach 2042 I have to think the later deed contract resale values will be higher. If selling down for us it would likely be around then. As our contracts are all 2060+ I think they’ll still have some reasonable resale value.
• If doing the rack rate vs DVC points math the cost breakeven is a shorter amount of years with 1-2-3 bedrooms vs studio stays.
• We have a 3 bedroom BLT stay this month to celebrate a graduation. We banked and borrowed our way to the points. If paying cash rates it would be something like $15k for the week. Now if you want to throw in an offsite hotel or other resort then obviously the math is different but that’s not what we want.
• And being direct I’ve booked the dessert fireworks option at the Top of The World Lounge in BLT.

Lastly we seldom spend our money on luxury cars, clothes, restaurant, etc. Nothing wrong with that and we do hit a top tier restaurant every once in a while. But we have spent it on direct DVC because it makes us happy having all the perks. Again, not a financial decision but an enjoyment decision.

I hope this helps. Regardless direct or resale, you’ve given your family a wonderfully expensive gift. You’ll have more frequent bedroom options at the 300 point level. Short term, we really enjoy the bedrooms now that the kids are adults. Longer term, I want our kids families one day to enjoy the parks the way we have. Given the trajectory of costs I think passing DVC along allows for that to happen.

Keep in mind the above is all DVC focused. You’d need to also consider your health, health insurance, ability to travel as you age, retirement savings, etc.

 

[Duckbug.Ducktales]

Yes, it’s an interesting choice. My wife and I are early 50s with our two daughters early 20s and no families of their own yet. We are all direct with our points. Started with 190 but have added 40, 110, and 65.

• They simplest way I’ve rationalized it is if just for me and my wife then resale and shorter expiration dates make sense.
• Since we intend to pass on to family then direct works as I want them to enjoy the maximum flexibility and benefits (us as well while we here!).
• If it doesn’t work out that the family wants the points, I’ve structured them in to smaller contracts to sell down, recoup some of the costs, and keep only what my wife and I need.
• At some point as we approach 2042 I have to think the later deed contract resale values will be higher. If selling down for us it would likely be around then. As our contracts are all 2060+ I think they’ll still have some reasonable resale value.
• If doing the rack rate vs DVC points math the cost breakeven is a shorter amount of years with 1-2-3 bedrooms vs studio stays.
• We have a 3 bedroom BLT stay this month to celebrate a graduation. We banked and borrowed our way to the points. If paying cash rates it would be something like $15k for the week. Now if you want to throw in an offsite hotel or other resort then obviously the math is different but that’s not what we want.
• And being direct I’ve booked the dessert fireworks option at the Top of The World Lounge in BLT.

Lastly we seldom spend our money on luxury cars, clothes, restaurant, etc. Nothing wrong with that and we do hit a top tier restaurant every once in a while. But we have spent it on direct DVC because it makes us happy having all the perks. Again, not a financial decision but an enjoyment decision.

I hope this helps. Regardless direct or resale, you’ve given your family a wonderfully expensive gift. You’ll have more frequent bedroom options at the 300 point level. Short term, we really enjoy the bedrooms now that the kids are adults. Longer term, I want our kids families one day to enjoy the parks the way we have. Given the trajectory of costs I think passing DVC along allows for that to happen.

Keep in mind the above is all DVC focused. You’d need to also consider your health, health insurance, ability to travel as you age, retirement savings, etc.

Nice thoughts, and it's nice that you'll be able to combine all your points, that can be a good perk as well.

 

[take36]

My husband and I have 200 resale points (100 BRV and 100 AKV). I would love to have 100 more to give us a 1 bedroom for 6 nights during spring break. Ideally I’d love to buy unrestricted direct points to trade into future resorts but I get hung up on direct prices. It’s just a little easier for me to rationalize 100-150 more points at $105pp than $200+ for direct.

We are older parents (50 and 60) of a 6 year old so will be taking annual trips for the foreseeable future. But, we don’t have intentions of holding until contract expiration for anything longer than 2042.

So, for those that have decided direct was the right answer, other than member events and ability to have unrestricted points is there any other factor that swayed you to choose direct over resale, especially if you were in an older demographic?

I am an older parent with kids around your child and I have a mix of direct and resale.

The prices these days (I know I am a boomer!) are just absolutely crazy if you are not upper middle class/upper class! 30k minimum buy in! That is 30% of your income if you make 100k! "Back in my days" about 10-15 years ago you can get in at 150 points (or less) for 15K which even at 30% of your income is like 50K, so even accounting for inflation, the DVC prices has not "kept up" with wages. I feel for the new generation but that's not a topic for here!

Today I would advise any of my Disney loving family (all middle class except like 2 rich rich cousin) to consider resale heavily if they want DVC as they do go enough for it to make sense.

I will consider direct today only to ensure that I am "part of the club" if that matters. The in park lounges while a nice perk for most, may be a huge deal for those with kids and needing a place to relax. We may be gone before but the new properties have longer expiration dates so in theory it should hold its value longest. Also direct prices always going up so if you know in your heart of hearts you need to be a "full member" then its best to pay once and cry once.

At risk of a humble brag but the more years I use my DVC and stay at other resorts (just on Disney trips and not even counting other destinations) it is becoming more restricting. My stays at DLH with lounge access, Four Seasons, and JW Marriot cannot be paid with points and had I not been out of points I would never have stayed there and they are absolutely amazing! My kids and nieces for the next trip found a video on one of the all star and insist we stay there so now I’m have to book there! I have fully loaded and borrowable GFLO points children! My last 3 stays have been DLH, value, and moderate and had a great time without being locked into DVC "restrictions" of planning way ahead and locking up my money. To make it worst, I had originally wanted DVC to bank/borrow/use for larger family trips but with every one's schedule and despite all loving Disney, we simply cannot commit to 11 months. Our last 12+ member family trip we ended paying cash and the last trip we did as an extended family/friends on my points was pre pandemic.

With so much to consider it really takes a buyer to look into your heart of hearts and see what you really want. Spreadsheets won't do it (DVC wont add up) and your ideal use for it won't do it (things always come up!).

Best of luck and I hope to see all of us smiling in the parks!