Dog Behavior Question

[DVC Sadie]

Thanks for the update!

 

[The Mystery Machine]

Great update! Sounds as if she felt threatened reaching into her crate..Poor baby, probably lots of abuse to work out of her.

 

[Aimeedyan]

Oh, I'm so glad to hear that update!! I think you're right - she must have been abused by someone similar to you. esp since she easily went to a man and a little boy without hesitation. It may take longer for her to warm up to you, which I know is frustrating for a dog lover, but she'll come around =) esp once she realizes that her "buddies" (aka your DH and son) are okay with you.

Hope things continue!

(btw- it took a good week or two for my Shih Tzu to be okay with my Winston when he came home... that takes even longer then people, I think!)

 

[Obi-Wan Pinobi]

Kilee, you know it could have been even the tiniest thing about you that made her think of someone that abused her - could have been a tone of voice, a certain movement or even a scent that was on you last night that triggered the aggressive behavior. Do you remember if you had on any particular lotion or perfume when you first tried to handle her after bringing her home - something that maybe has faded off of you by now since she is being more trusting with you?

 

[ashjohnson80]

Don't feel like it's your fault that it is taking her time to warm up to you. Shih Tzus have the tendency to get attached to one person (it may have been someone at the rescue I don't know) and then it takes them a while to warm up to someone else. My dog, Bogart, is a shih tzu, and he doesn't like new people at all. Give her time to realize that you are her new owner and I think things will get better.

 

[horseshowmom]

Hooray! So glad to hear the update.

 

[grlfrnd2steph]

If you have the national geographic channel, watch the show called the dog whisperer! I am a dog breeder, and I watch this show all the time! I even recomend his DVD to all of my buyers, it's called people training for dogs by cesear millian. What this man can do is amazing.

 

[disneyaggie]

I'd give her a few days to adjust and learn to trust you. She is beyond scared and overwhelmed - what a whirlwind life she's had lately. This is why puppy mills infuriate me so much and I can't believe people still buy from them!!!

You could also check into a behaviorist that can come to your home. The rescue or shelter should be able to point you in a good direction or your vet can help. The foster mom would be a great resource, too. Don't hestitate to call her for advice - she has, likely, dealt with lots of animals that came from her background and may know of some things to suggest.

I totally agree!

All of my dogs are rescues from those horrible puppy mills. One was in a house of 300 dogs! These people should be hung from the highest tree!

Anyway, the one mentioned was put in a cage when I took her to the vet because they needed to do an x-ray on her and another dog was on the x-ray table. My dog SCREAMED when they tried to get her out. The finally had to wrap a towel around her to get her out. No cages for any of my fur babies. Apparently something terrible is associated with coming out of their cage.

I am so glad things are looking up. And you are right, BABY STEPS is the key. Talking with a sing-songy smoothe voice. No loud noises to frighten. And also let them have a doggie bed and space they can call their own. It is their security area.

I am so happy you adopted a fur baby. Sounds like you really love this little cutie and she is coming around just fine.

 

[kayeandjim00]

I second the Dog Whisperer - he has great shows on timid dogs. I think you've made amazing progress from this morning. I would say in a month or so that you'll be one big happy family and this will be a memory - keep working with her and you'll get there.

 

[kilee]

She's bitten me 2 more times this afternoon. The one time I was actually laying down the food and she got me. She was about 3 feet from me and came at me and got my arm as I was setting their food down. I've been in contact off and on all day w/ the foster mom. She actually wants me to bring the dog back. She would rather we try w/ a different dog. She thinks this one just isn't going to work. Which I'm apprehensive about. I think it will really just upset things more to keep shuffling her around. I am so confused. I have another email to read from the foster mom-but I have knots in my tummy and just don't know.......


I do have an aunt that used to bred springer spaniels and showed them. They no longer bred or show-- they just take in springers that were show dogs that are no longer wanted. They also run obedience and agility classes. She thinks its a bad sign that the dog has been so aggressive towards me. She also thinks the dog knows I'm no afraid of her. Which how can I not be, I'm trying not to. But she's gotten me two times that really hurt now. She came close to breaking the skin on the last one.

I need to call the foster mom- because she asked me to call this evening to give an update.

 

[disneyaggie]

I've been in contact off and on all day w/ the foster mom. She actually wants me to bring the dog back. She would rather we try w/ a different dog.

I would not give the dog back. Good grief. Look at what that little doggie has gone through. I think I would bite people too!

And I don't think I would call the foster mom for a while. I would just let the dog get used to the new sights, smells, sounds and surroundings.

Whenever she bites you, just say, "no, no" but say it as kind as you can. You are having to establish boundaries, but very gently. She needs lots of love, but that will come with her trusting you.

Give it more time. You just got her! And who's to say another one will be nicer. Let her fit in on her time. Again, I would not put the dog through any more moving around. She desparately needs and craves stability. You can offer her that. You can not rush an animal to "fit in", especially those who are rescues. They have even more special needs.

Even just trying to stay away from your new fur child will give her the space she needs to feel a comfort level. It took my dogs a while to come around until they felt they "fit" in. They have been treated so poorly, they are amazed that someone actually can love them, and are suspicious until they realize the love is real! Mine are spoiled rotten and constantly by my side, when they are not in their snuggly beds. But it did not happen overnight! And I have 3 of them, each from a different rescue, each with their own special needs.

Be patient. Do not give the dog back. Give her time to adjust. Hugs to you all!

 

[Cruisin]

Does she only bite or try to bite you?

Can you maybe let someone else take care of her as much as possible and you stick to the background You know, there but not deliberately trying to interact with her.

When you are handling her or doing something that pertains to the dog could you wear some sort of protective gloves or something so that she can't get through to your skin. At least until she starts to settle down with you.

I know it might be hard but try to give her a good chance to get used to her new surroundings and to you especially.

On the other hand if she really truly will not accept you, you can't live with a dog that can't be trusted not to attack you or maybe someone else who comes to vist.

 

[Aimeedyan]

I would give it more time - I think her bouncing from place to place is just adding to her stress and anxiety.

If I were in your shoes, this is what I would do:

- tell the foster mom that you'll update her in a week and that things are improving (which, imo, they are because she responded to your DH)

- have DH do the caregiving for the next few days. Have him feed her, walk her, leash her, give her treats, cuddle with her, etc. You stay present but away from her. Make sure your DH gives lots of signals that you are a-okay with him.

- call your vet on Monday and get an appt asap. Talk to your vet about anxiety meds to give her for the time being. LOTS of dogs that come from those kind of environments get on meds for awhile until they adjust.

- find a behaviorist in your area to at least call and ask advice from.

And give her LOTS of time and space =) She sounds like she CAN be a great dog with time.

 

[LittleRydia]

I have read so far what has happend and just want to give some of my advice. Ive had several Shih Tzu dogs in my life but there is one I had I can relate to you with.

We had adopted a 4 year old male Shih Tzu from the pound once. He had been in MANY homes and always brought back for the same reasons.
Not potty trained, and not easy to handel.

How we found him is, we was there one day just looking for a dog. Then in the back, in small cages in a "restricted area" I seen him. He was nothing but a ball of knots, and his own feeses (sorry brain cant spell). I asked about him and they told me he was going to be put down! I asked why and they told about his problems and hes always being brought back.

Well after much begging and talking, I was able to adopt him. I wanted to see him in a good home, I felt so bad for the little guy. A few days later, I was able to bring him home. Now while at the pound, oh he was so happy to get human attention. To be out of the cage and moving around! I was able to hold him in a towel (they had not cleaned him) untill we got to petsmart. Were had him bathed, hair cut and checked over.

When we got him home.. his whole attitude changed. Same with the problem your having, except we didnt have a crate. He went under our couch and would not come out. If you even SAT on the couch he growled and snaped at any movment around it. After a few days of trying, we thought you know this is not going to work he would not eat or anything. Finally he did start eating.. he came out at night and ate and drink (going to the potty under the couch was not a pleasent smell) Of course he had it on him also and like yours, finally came to us like telling us he wanted to be cleaned. Shih Tzu are very clean dogs, they love to be groomed and washed and pampered so its not surprise she loved it when you did.

It went good for a few days but he would at times go back to bitting, growling from under the couch. It toke us about a good month or more.. before he stoped this behavior. It seemed we could not force ourselves or anything onto him, he picked when he wanted contact with us or anything eles.


Really giving her back is not a good idea at all, since these dogs get very attached to there owners and certain people. You say she did ok with your son on the ride home? and great with your husband? It sounds to me the kind of people who have abused her were females.. is why she is not accepting you right now. our Shih Tzu , did not like males. at all. He would go out of his way just to let any male know in sight how he felt. Really just try sitting in the same room with her. No contact, no talking just sit near her (not in biting reach of course) to show her your not going to harm her or force her to do anything. Also dont keep the crate, or try to keep her in it. Shes from a puppymeal, that is the worst thing you can do for this kid of dog since she was rasied so badly in one.

Really I hope things go well for you, for Shih Tzu are the most loving dogs in my opinon. They really can act like people, with attitude and all.

 

[PlutoPony]

Are you the only female the dog has seen since coming to your house? If so it might be interesting to have a friend come in to test whether the dog is uncomfortable with females in general or something specifically about you (sorry if that's the case ). Our rescue was terrified of men when we got her but did come out of it within a couple of weeks. DH just didn't approach her at all for a while, but did talk to her from a distance. Eventually she approached him and things improved slowly from there. However ours was not aggressive in any way, actually quite the opposite.
That said, prior to getting our currenet rescue we did foster a lab from the loca lab rescue group for weekend. Did it as a favor to them, but clearly they were hoping we'd fall for the dog and take her since we were working with them to find a dog at the time. This was unfortunately the dog from #$%% and it quickly became clear that we just couldn't take her permanently. At the time DS was 18 months old and we felt like it would be a LONG time (if ever) before we'd be able to trust the dog with our son around. We gave the dog back, knowing that we were probably the dog's last chance (long story there) but knew it was absolutely the right decision for our family (lots of tears shed however). So please realize that you have to make the best decision for your family and your sanity.... you're obviously a dog lover and want the best for this dog but most rescue groups realize that you just can't save them all (I'm also a little surprised that this dog was placed at this time by your description). Our story did have a happy ending. The rescue lab ended up getting one more chance and passed the test to be a drug enforcement dog (had drive off the charts) and we found a wonderful mixed breed rescue who's been with us 9+ years.
Good luck to you whatever happens

 

[kilee]

After a lot of phone calls and emails from the foster mom. I had told her I'd just take a bit more time to see how it all goes. Now, I will admit it had gotten to the point I was afraid of her. She was going to break the skin first off., and it wasn't going to be nice as she was becoming more aggressive. I worked in the ER for quite a few years. Around here if you go in for a dog bite- it's mandatory that the police are called and your homeowners insurance company has to be contacted (for owning an aggressive dog). The police have confinscated many family pets for biting.

Evenutally, I put her, her crate open in the laundry room (which is large) w/ a gate across the doorway. So, she could still see everything, but maybe wouldn't feel so anxious. Unfortunately, though by evening end NOBODY in my household could approach her. I had recontacted a women I know that teaches obedience and agility. She said she'd come look at the dog on Monday evening.

Anyow, in the end the foster mom really wanted her back. Eventually, the director of the rescue group and I chatted (the foster mom's doing) and they are insistent they want the dog back. She said they'd find me a different dog (I think I took this the wrong way because the statement turned me off a bit. To be fair the director told me she was in the middle of a major weekend w/ moving a lot of dogs around. However, she came off as real blunt and short w/ me and actually upset me a lot more.)--and to please just return this one to the Foster Mom. She did tell me this dog had only been in foster a short time, and they usually keep them a bit longer. Which is ironic becuse the foster mom told me she had her a lot longer than what the director said. So, I don't really know. In the end she went back late last night. I cried the whole way there, and honestly,today I feel like a failure at this. I knew there would be adjustment periods and such. I didn't foresee the biting and sheer aggression (I will be honest I wasn't prepared for that aspect). I did expect lots of "accidents w/ potty training", I figured it was going to take some to for her to trust and accept or love. I didn't expect her to like my dog right away. I don't know I feel like I'm just not the "right person" for the job I guess. This has been a hard day, I've been on an emotional rollercoaster, and well I guess thats it. This has been so emotionally heart breaking I doubt I'll do it again. I don't want to upset or displace another dog.

 

[PlutoPony]

FWIW I think you did the right thing and have to say I'm not particularly impressed by the rescue group. They really should have a better idea of what's going on with their dogs in order to make a good, solid placement and at least be up front with you about the dog's problems. I can understand if you don't want to go thru this again, but when you've had some time away from this situation you might want to talk to another rescue group - I think you'll find there are others out there who do a better job deciding which dogs CAN be adopted and matching them to a good home.

 

[LittleRydia]

You really shouldnt be upset with yourself, really you did all you could for her. It does sound as if the adoption agency should of been better about what dogs they find homes for, and train them as well. The best thing is you did try and show this dog some love. You had a lot more patenice then some people would of. But sometimes scares can go to deep in dogs and theres nothing you can do for them.

As emotional this is for you, it would be best to wait before just getting another. Sounds as if the agency is like "well ok return it and well give you another" A dog is not some peice of clothes or item you can just exchange because the other was "broken" what kind of agency is this? is it private owned or county?

Also well this is just a suggestion, i didnt even get to look at your profile as to were you live. But within the next year we plan to have some dotson puppies, two litters from our two females. we plan to sell them since they will be pure breed long hair. BUT id be willing to give one to you and your son if your wanting puppie. Since you have another dog, it might be best for you start with a puppie so they would grow up and get along. It sound as if your is wanting a play mate trying to play like he/she was.

If your interested, just PM me. I can send a picture of my two dotson and the going to be father of there litters. just note there just now in there first heat cycle, were waiting for the second before we breed them. So it will be almost a year before the puppies will be born.

 

[Cruisin]

I'm sorry that it did not work out for you this time.

I hope that you find yourself willing to give another try with another dog sometime. You seem like a real dog lover and any dog would be lucky to have a home with you.

Good luck with any future furbabies.

 

[luvsmickeymouse]

FWIW I think you did the right thing and have to say I'm not particularly impressed by the rescue group. They really should have a better idea of what's going on with their dogs in order to make a good, solid placement and at least be up front with you about the dog's problems. I can understand if you don't want to go thru this again, but when you've had some time away from this situation you might want to talk to another rescue group - I think you'll find there are others out there who do a better job deciding which dogs CAN be adopted and matching them to a good home.

I agree with this. I tried a dashound rescue, it didn't work out either. We ended up buying a toy poodle and she is everything I wanted in a dog and more. She is 9 and has grown up with my kids. She is great! The kids were small when I tried the dashound rescue, and I was afraid one of them would be bitten. Before this we had 2 dogs from the humane society, who were great and lived to the ripe old age of almost 14 years old each. We had these 2 dogs before the kids and when the kids came, they acted as though the kids had always been there. I am sorry that it didn't work out but I do think that you made the right decision. It was a hard decision for me to make, but I know that I did the right thing. I had the kids to consider.