Does your High School have this schedule?

[lovetoscrap]

Our district is proposing what they are calling a 4x4 schedule. High School kids will only take 4 classes each semester, meeting everyday and lasting about 90 minutes each day. So 1st semester they take 4 classes and 2nd semester they take 4 new classes. The material they now cover in one year will be compressed into one semester.

However some classes like AP, IB, ROTC and Band will continue to be year long and will meet on alternate days.

There are A LOT of very unhappy parents and from what I am hearing unhappy teachers too. I have a whole lot of concerns about it. Our kids have the potential to take a math or foreign language class in the first semester as a Freshman and then not take the next level until 2nd semester of their Sophomore year (or even beyond depending on scheduling). I find this ridiculous. And if a kid starts to fall behind, with the pace of the class only taking one semester they may not have time to catch up, there will be no time for review and the teacher will just have to keep moving. I would assume they will be teaching multiple concepts/lessons each day so there will be a whole lot to absorb at one time.

The district is holding parent meetings but for the most part it seems like the decision is made and they are not going to listen to any parent input.

I am interested to hear from anyone who's district does this and how it works and what you and/or your student think of this type of schedule.

*Currently we use a Block Schedule, where they take 7 total classes- three 90ish minute classes held every other day and one shorter class that meets every day.*

 

[Cinderella94]

I don't think I would like that schedule either. I'm a senior and my HS has always done "A day/B day," with 4 79 minute classes one day, and 4 different 79 minute classes the next day. Most classes run like that all year, though some are only a semester.

 

[postage stamp]

That's how it was when I went to school. I had a normal schedule freshman and sophomore years and it changed to "block scheduling" my junior year. Everyone was up in arms about it when it changed. Kids didn't want it, parents didn't want it, nobody. After a year we all fell in love with it though. It was SO much easier to concentrate on 4-5 things instead of 7-8 things. At least it was for me.

 

[mumom95]

Our high school had been doing this for close to 10 years and just went away from it and back to a traditional schedule this year. Frankly it just cost the district too much money. Now that they teacher's only have a 50 minute planning period (opposed to what they did have of 90 minutes) they can teach more classes, so they need less teachers.

I will say the students and teacher's were very much opposed to the switch. The kids loved only having 4 subjects (maybe 3 if they had a special or study hall) for homework and the teachers loved having a 90 minute prep.

I don't have a kid in the high school yet, so I can't really comment on it. I used to teach under a 4X4 block, and loved it for teaching my computer classes, hated it for teaching my math classes. In general, I prefer the traditional schedule. I think it's better for the student's education too, but I'm no expert. I do think a 90 minute period is great for classes like band, art and chemistry labs.

 

[golfgal]

It is more commonly called a block schedule and the way your school is setting it up is HORRIBLE. The high school in our old town had this schedule and everyone hates it. The way it is set up you could have math class the first quarter of your freshman year and not have it again until 4th quarter of your sophomore year-happens ALL the time to our friends' kids.

Our middle school had an every other day block schedule and I LOVED that schedule. They had 4 classes one day and 4 different classes the next day but they had the same classes all year long. They had an extra hour each day to take band, etc. too so they really had 5 classes each day if they were in band, etc. The REALLY nice thing with this schedule is that kids had 2 days to get homework done so if they had church or whatever in the evening they could plan around that to finish homework.

 

[MrsPete]

We've been doing this for about 13-14 years now, and I am 100% certain that I was a better teacher under the old system. Negatives:

- You have fewer total hours in each class. Sure, the student can now fit in 8 classes instead of 6 each year, but he's speeding through the material at break-neck speed. In theory, this is good for the high-level students because they can get in all those upper-level classes that they want AND can fit in fun electives like Journalism. In reality, the high-level students are forced to sprint through those AP classes so fast that many of them choose to take a short day and leave early, or they take a no-brainer class like Library Assistant so they can have a little study hall each day.
- With fewer hours in each class, enrichment activities that students used to enjoy immensely have disappeared -- we have to get through the basics. Also, pep rallies and other social items that made school something other than ho-hum constant work have disappeared.
- It's worst for low-level academic students. To get through the curriculum, the teacher must assign more homework each night. For the students who aren't going to do it /can't do it well, this puts them further and further behind. Imagine you're a poor reader; under block scheduling, your teacher must assign 3-4 chapters per night. If you fall behind one night, you're probably screwed. So the reality is that teachers in low-level classes use a portion of their in-class time to read a chapter or two -- but remember that you've already cut your class time.
- We must cover a great deal of material in each and every class, so a student who's absent for a couple days can fall behind FAST. A student who becomes very sick (or perhaps has a baby) and misses a great deal of class may fall so far behind that it's impossible to catch up. Essentially missing one day in block scheduling = missing two days in traditional schedule.
- Keeping students going for 90 minutes isn't always easy, especially in classes that aren't favorites. It's especially hard for 9th graders and kids with ADHD.
- They tried to sell us on the idea that a student who, for example, messes up in Junior English can re-take Junior English in the fall, move on to Senior English in the spring . . . and still graduate with his class. The reality is that at-risk students figure this out fast, and they seem to take their classes less seriously. So, let's say a student doesn't do his research paper and it's a big enough grade that he's going to fail first 9-weeks. Under the traditional system, kids used to say, "I've gotta see what I can do -- I want to graduate with my class." Now those kids say, "Eh, who cares? I'll just let this class go; after all, I can take it again next year and still graduate on time."
- In my personal opinion, students seem to retain less material than they used to. This, of course, is purely subjective observation on my part -- I can't say that I've run a study or anything.
- Academics aside, I used to have better relationships with my students, used to get to know them better. Now they're in and out so fast.


Reasons why it'll never go away here:

- It's cheaper. Say you have 400 students taking Algebra 1. With a traditional schedule, you need to buy 400 Algebra books because the students need them all year long. With block scheduling, 50% of the students take Algebra 1 in the fall, 50% take Algebra 1 in the spring . . . so you only need to buy 200 textbooks. With textbooks running $75 each, this is a realistic concern.
- Same thing with teachers. When I taught under traditional scheduling, I taught 5 classes each year. With block scheduling, I teach 6 classes each year (3 fall, 3 spring). No, my classes aren't smaller. I'm teaching 20-30 more students each year.
- Some seniors like the idea that they can complete their coursework at Christmas and take spring semester off. I'm not convinced that this is a great choice.

Two things I can say positive about it:

- When it becomes evident that one of my seniors isn't going to graduate, it's easier to sell him on the idea of returning for one semester than it is to talk him into coming back for a whole 'nother year.
- Classes like auto mechanics, PE, and home ec love it. They only set up once, and they get twice the work time. But those classes are the exception, not the rule.

If I could go back in time, I'd rally against this schedule choice.

 

[FlightlessDuck]

Yes, our high school has this schedule. My daughter currently has three academic classes of 90 minutes each and one period of 135 divided into three 45 minute periods: One for an elective, one for band, and one for lunch.

She is a freshman, so it's hard to say how well this works for her. But she is getting slightly better grades this year than she did in middle school.

However, the band director hates this setup because it reduces the amount of time for electives. At least in 9th and 10th grade. It is also really hard to actually eat lunch. A lot of the band kids apparently end up eating lunch in the band room.

 

[golfgal]

I should say that the science teachers LOVE the 90 minute periods because they can do the lecture/lab all at once but other than that, yuck.

We are on a trimester system and THAT is a great system too. Kids can take up to 21 classes/ year. Freshman/Sophomore years there isn't much room for electives (2 periods/day) but junior and senior year there is a lot of room. Most classes are a year long but not all and they could take 3 different writing classes, for example, one year if they want.

 

[FlightlessDuck]

It is more commonly called a block schedule and the way your school is setting it up is HORRIBLE. The high school in our old town had this schedule and everyone hates it. The way it is set up you could have math class the first quarter of your freshman year and not have it again until 4th quarter of your sophomore year-happens ALL the time to our friends' kids.

Wait... what? So you would have 16 courses in one year? Four per quarter? Or two really long classes per quarter?

 

[golfgal]

Wait... what? So you would have 16 courses in one year? Four per quarter? Or two really long classes per quarter?

You would have 4 per quarter, so 16 classes each year, but each class is a semester's worth of learning, or in theory it is anyway, so you could end up basically going almost 2 years without having math.

 

[Darcy03231]

Our high school does it. I'm on my 4th kid with the schedule and so far its worked out ok for us. The kids like it because they only have four classes a semester so that's only four teachers to do homework for vs. 7-8 with the old schedule. Also, with 90 minute periods they get more done in class and there seems to be a lot less homework coming home than what they had under the more traditional schedule (middle school). In fact, my son's last year of middle school it transitioned to this type of schedule too.

 

[RunDanceSkate]

I had the 4/4 way back when I went to school starting in 1984. My older brother had it too, so at least since 1982. My kids have it and they love it, especially DS, several of his grade 12 science course require him to have gr 12 math 1st. He is taking grade 11 math now, grade 12 math next semester, and his sciences next year in grade 12.

 

[klj27]

My daughter is a freshman and has block A/B scheduling. When she was looking at high schools the three she was considering all had different types of schedules and I must say we really like this one the best. She has 4 classes on A days and 4 different classes on B days. We bought an A day bookbag and a B day bookbag to make things easier on her also.

 

[lovetoscrap]

It is more commonly called a block schedule and the way your school is setting it up is HORRIBLE.

Our middle school had an every other day block schedule and I LOVED that schedule. They had 4 classes one day and 4 different classes the next day but they had the same classes all year long.

This actually a bit different from Block Schedule as our District is defining it now. What we have now is Block Schedule just as you describe above. Well mostly. Our Middle School is 8 classes, High School is 7 classes. No idea why.

We've been doing this for about 13-14 years now, and I am 100% certain that I was a better teacher under the old system.

Thank you so much for all the information. Most of you what you have brought up are exactly the same concerns we have been trying to voice. I do think that the only advantage I can see is the idea that they will only be working on 4 classes at once instead of 7 or 8.

Negatives:

-
-
- They tried to sell us on the idea that a student who, for example, messes up in Junior English can re-take Junior English in the fall, move on to Senior English in the spring . . . and still graduate with his class. The reality is that at-risk students figure this out fast, and they seem to take their classes less seriously. So, let's say a student doesn't do his research paper and it's a big enough grade that he's going to fail first 9-weeks. Under the traditional system, kids used to say, "I've gotta see what I can do -- I want to graduate with my class." Now those kids say, "Eh, who cares? I'll just let this class go; after all, I can take it again next year and still graduate on time."

This is actually one of the things they are pushing as being so positive about this. That kids that fail the class can take it again right away. Gosh isn't that great-- maybe instead we should be looking at ways of keeping them from failing in the first place???

It's worst for low-level academic students. To get through the curriculum, the teacher must assign more homework each night. For the students who aren't going to do it /can't do it well, this puts them further and further behind. Imagine you're a poor reader; under block scheduling, your teacher must assign 3-4 chapters per night. If you fall behind one night, you're probably screwed. So the reality is that teachers in low-level classes use a portion of their in-class time to read a chapter or two -- but remember that you've already cut your class time.
- We must cover a great deal of material in each and every class, so a student who's absent for a couple days can fall behind FAST. A student who becomes very sick (or perhaps has a baby) and misses a great deal of class may fall so far behind that it's impossible to catch up. Essentially missing one day in block scheduling = missing two days in traditional schedule.

This is one of the things that bothers me the most. My younger one struggles and this sort of pace will completely sink her. And she has some illness issues that do cause her to miss more school than most. My dd in high school now is an advanced learner but stresses and I think this kind of pace will absolutely freak her out.

- In my personal opinion, students seem to retain less material than they used to. This, of course, is purely subjective observation on my part -- I can't say that I've run a study or anything.

This study agrees with you: http://www.virginia.edu/insideuva/2006/08/block_scheduling.html

As does this one: http://professionals.collegeboard.com/data-reports-research/cb/block-schedules-ap

- Academics aside, I used to have better relationships with my students, used to get to know them better. Now they're in and out so fast.

Another thing they are trying to convince us of is that this means the teachers will be able to really get to know the students since they will see them everyday.


A huge concern here is that we have a very transient population-- families move in and and out throughout the year and many coming in choose our town because of the excellent schools. However this is going to make it nearly impossible for the high school kids coming in. How do you come into a district where they are 1/2 way through Algebra 2 by November and you were only at the beginning in the district you came from?


I am also concerned about the actual time for teaching the needed material. We know that teachers spend the first 1-2 weeks just reviewing past material to make up for retention loss over the summer. My dd's French III class is still reviewing the French II material and it is 6 weeks in to the semester.

Then they spend 1-2 weeks reviewing the material for the state mandated tests, the district mandated tests and the school level finals. So out of 18 weeks of class time we have now allowed only 16 weeks-- 80 days -- to cover a years worth of material. This doesn't include the days/classes that are shortened or missed by half days, school assemblies, fire drills and all the other normal interruptions. And all this with teen brains that are overwhelmed by hormones and have social/personal issues as the priority.

 

[Pembo]

My son's hs does this. Band and choir are in the block though. There are 4 blocks each day. Block 3 is divided into 4 parts for band and choir. My son eats lunch in 3A and has marching band in 3B-3D. He has 3 core classes. In the next semester he will have 3 new classes. Some kids have 4 if they don't take band or choir during block 3.

 

[janette]

Our HS has this schedule and it has worked out very well for my girls. They aren't overwhelmed with homework since they have only 4 classes at the same time. My older DD took AP classes including Calculus and had no problem with the breaks between math classes. She got a 5 on the AP exam, the majority of the class got 4/5 (they had Calc the fall semester and took AP test in April). Since they had extra time in class they started on Calc II - she says it has really helped her this year in college since her Calc II teacher in college isn't as good as her HS teacher was.

The ability to make up classes also works to your advantage and depending on a students interests it can make it easier to take specialized classes. One of my older DD's friends was interested in theatre and was able to take it every semester in HS, my younger DD is interested in art and should be able to take art every semester in essence giving her 8 yrs worth of credits in art and lots more variety than she would have been able to do otherwise.

One of the 1st things my oldest DD told me after starting college is how quick those 1hr classes seemed. Since she's been on the long schedule for so long she said it just seemed like not enough time to really get into the material.

All the parents I know like the schedule too, takes a bit to get used to but just seemed to work very well.

 

[The Mystery Machine]

Our district is proposing what they are calling a 4x4 schedule. High School kids will only take 4 classes each semester, meeting everyday and lasting about 90 minutes each day. So 1st semester they take 4 classes and 2nd semester they take 4 new classes. The material they now cover in one year will be compressed into one semester.

However some classes like AP, IB, ROTC and Band will continue to be year long and will meet on alternate days.

There are A LOT of very unhappy parents and from what I am hearing unhappy teachers too. I have a whole lot of concerns about it. Our kids have the potential to take a math or foreign language class in the first semester as a Freshman and then not take the next level until 2nd semester of their Sophomore year (or even beyond depending on scheduling). I find this ridiculous. And if a kid starts to fall behind, with the pace of the class only taking one semester they may not have time to catch up, there will be no time for review and the teacher will just have to keep moving. I would assume they will be teaching multiple concepts/lessons each day so there will be a whole lot to absorb at one time.

The district is holding parent meetings but for the most part it seems like the decision is made and they are not going to listen to any parent input.

I am interested to hear from anyone who's district does this and how it works and what you and/or your student think of this type of schedule.

*Currently we use a Block Schedule, where they take 7 total classes- three 90ish minute classes held every other day and one shorter class that meets every day.*

My dd had this schedule in TX and loved it. So much better than 7 classes a day. Plus they got to take 8 credits a yr as opposed to 7.

YMMV. It was a better system for MY DD than the 7 a day.

My youngest is going to have the 7 a day here in MO.

 

[suzannews]

My DD is a sophomore in HS and is on a block schedule. Takes 4 classes for a semester, 4 new classes for the next semester. As others have stated, it works for us because its only 4 classes to deal with at a time with homework, reports and tests. Bad part is being absent one day is really like 2 days worth of work. Because of this, many kids go to school sick so they don't fall behind. We have been lucky so far that last year and this year my DD has 2 core classes and 2 electives each semester. The schedules are computer generated so last year my neighbor had all 4 core classes one semester and 4 electives the next semester. After a few phone calls and a trip to guidance by her mother, the schedule was changed.

 

[lastminutemom]

I despise the 4 by 4 block. It is another educational trend that needs to go away. In a true 4 by 4 situation, students only have math and English one semester. That means that students can go a year without math.

Foreign language is an interesting one as well. A student can take 4 years worth of foreign language by the end of their sophomore year. However, many colleges require FL so that is a pretty big gap.

In addition, it is more costly than a 6 or 7 period day. If you system is having any financial woes, this is the last thing they should be considering.

A tremendous amount of money needs to be spent on professional development for teachers to make sure they know how to teach in a 90 minute block. This, however, doesn't alleviate the problem of students paying attention.

Not a fan.

 

[swkmom]

There are several schools in our county that follow the 4x4 schedule or block schedule. The county is doing away with all block scheduling after this year, I believe the reason they are doing it is because some of the students weren't getting all the credits in they needed for graduation, but I could be wrong about that.

My daughter attends the only high school in the county that runs on a modular schedule, I attended the same school and loved it. It's a 3 day rotating schedule and classes are never at the same time each day, she can have up to 8 classes on one day and only 6 on the next.