Do you wish there were no cabins at CCV? [Game Theory]

[Duckbug.Ducktales]

First: Math (I will explain in more detail how I got my numbers and provide you access to the data directly with calculation)
Second: This discussion is specifically about a "Cabin" vs "No Cabin" resort and what it does to .

Preface:
Copper Creek is known already 3 years in to opening as one of the hardest studios to get even at 11 months. As I reviewed a recent availability chart for the resort I started to think directly about the difference between the last 3 resorts that DVC has launched (POLY, CCV, RIV) and the planned but on hold (REF). The only resort of the group not to have Cabins/Bungalows is Riviera (which has instead low point PODs for 2 people and likely to be full 100% of the time).

What is the point to this:
With the inclusion of Cabins you are able to lower point charts while causing a room shortage at the resort. On the flip side by not having Cabins you will have more "rentable" rooms but increased point charts. So while Riviera will have higher point charts that CCV it actually allows for easier availability year round as 100% of the points allotted are in room categories typically rented.

What to look at:
You will notice that Rivera will come in right at the midpoint between the Cabin and Without Cabin point charts from CCV.

Example Point Chart:
May 1-June 10; Oct 1-Nov 23; Nov 27-Nov 30
Copper Creek

Room Category	Week as it stands	Week without Cabins existing	Mid-Point of "Less Profit" for DIS
Studio	114	169	142
1BR	232	345	288
2BR	299	444	372
GV	788	1170	979
Cabins	748	Does not exist	Does not exist

Riviera

Room Category	Standard View	Preferred View
POD	99	99
Studio	123	155
1BR	260	333
2BR	345	412
GV	857	857

Just coming across this, great stuff! It makes me wonder if maybe instead of say half the cabins they could have built another structure that included more studios. Not sure how that would work or looked, but it would have been nicer given that most people buy to get studios.

You mention Poly, I think it's rather worse there because those bungalows are just hardly ever booked up, it's so silly to have many of them there just sitting empty. The cabins cost less and are more popular.

 

[sethschroeder]

You mention Poly, I think it's rather worse there because those bungalows are just hardly ever booked up, it's so silly to have many of them there just sitting empty. The cabins cost less and are more popular.

Poly as an example though only has studios so you have more capacity and you also force X% of points to book at other resorts when they want a 1br or 2br (or kitchen).

Poly might be a bigger hindrance on DVC as a whole at 7 months though.

 

[qwerty2k]

Is ccv studio availability still a big issue in august for example at 11months? I’m from U.K. and considering it being my first dvc purchase but am a bit worried about buying there and not being able to get a studio for 2 weeks every other year in august.

 

[Duckbug.Ducktales]

Poly as an example though only has studios so you have more capacity and you also force X% of points to book at other resorts when they want a 1br or 2br (or kitchen).

Poly might be a bigger hindrance on DVC as a whole at 7 months though.

Yeah, I think Poly is a bigger hindrance because at least many folks using non-CCV points book up several of the cabins but there seem to always be empty bungalows. They are more point-expensive after all.

 

[hhisc16]

Based on some back of the napkin math, CCV studios makes up about 15% of the total points sold at the resort. So if you buy there with the intention of primarily booking studios, along with many others who do so, you're competing against a large pool of points for a relatively limited set of rooms. If studios are what you're after and you don't plan on always booking at 11 months, then a resort with more studio booking flexibility may be a better fit.

Compare this to some other resorts:
BRV studios - 21% of total points
BWV studios (pool/boardwalk) - 26% of total points
Poly studios (standard) - 56% of total points

Since roughly 45% of POLY's points are bungalows, I wonder what % the bungalows sit empty.
Is that why POLY studios at 7 months are difficult to book?

 

[Duckbug.Ducktales]

Since roughly 45% of POLY's points are bungalows, I wonder what % the bungalows sit empty.
Is that why POLY studios at 7 months are difficult to book?

I've actually found POLY studios, at least lake views, to be relatively available at 7 months. I think because many POLY owners use it for SAP or end up needing 1BR/2BR and trade into other resorts to get them

 

[hhisc16]

I've actually found POLY studios, at least lake views, to be relatively available at 7 months. I think because many POLY owners use it for SAP or end up needing 1BR/2BR and trade into other resorts to get them

So for comparison:
CCV studio at 7 month is impossible?
POLY studio at 7 month is possible?
Interesting since bungalow vs. cabin points

( I am curious since we will be trying to get 2/3 nights at studio in summer 2022 at 7 months. Comparing POLY vs. CCV chances.)

 

[Imkarlawithak2005]

We own at Copper Creek with no intention of ever booking a studio. I think it just depends on your needs.

 

[sethschroeder]

CCV studio at 7 month is impossible?
POLY studio at 7 month is possible?
Interesting since bungalow vs. cabin points

It has less to do with the points and more about the breakdown of category % of the points.

With POLY having only studios it resolves some of the issue by pushing owners off to other resorts at 7 months. While people owning at CCV are looking to get a limited number of studios as points exist in 1BR and 2BR as well which dont book as quickly or possibly with 1BRs don't go until 7 months.

 

[Carol_]

We bought at CCV with little to no interest in the studios. DVC had added value for us only if we could cook in the room, make those chocolate chip cookies, breakfast while the sleepy heads slowly got up, mid-day snacks in the fridge for anybody lazing about in the room all day... We love the cabins and try to go as much as we can but a week there is a point suck. We’re 3 nights at WDW and done kind of people anyway.
All this to say we don’t compete for studios with our CCV points.

 

[HookdonWDW]

I own also own at VWL (BRV), and factored in popularity and unit availability when we bought. I purchased 2 fixed week studios (Week 49) to avoid this issue. Works great for us!

 

[keishashadow]

Copper Creek is known already 3 years in to opening as one of the hardest studios to get even at 11 months.

We own at WL. Just for giggles waitlisted the studio At CCV studio I’m sitting in as I write this post .

2nd WL for 4th of July trip again came thru last week.

I’m guessing people are still cancelling, just closer to arrival dates

I'm OK with the cabin and bungalow concept, but I wish they had built fewer of them - maybe about 1/3 of what they actually built.

Have walked around resort last few nights. Only a handful appear to be occupied in both sections combined

 

[DougEMG]

I hate the cabins and bungalows. They seem nothing more than a way to goose the number of points at a resort and increase breakage income for DVC.

 

[MonaMN]

We bought at CCV with little to no interest in the studios. DVC had added value for us only if we could cook in the room, make those chocolate chip cookies, breakfast while the sleepy heads slowly got up, mid-day snacks in the fridge for anybody lazing about in the room all day... We love the cabins and try to go as much as we can but a week there is a point suck. We’re 3 nights at WDW and done kind of people anyway.
All this to say we don’t compete for studios with our CCV points.

We also bought at CCV with the intention to have the kitchen and more space - not that we might not do a studio now and then, but we wanted to upgrade from what we was available at regular resorts.

 

[Leight19]

I hate the cabins and bungalows. They seem nothing more than a way to goose the number of points at a resort and increase breakage income for DVC.

I would think these room types actually hurt breakage; motivation for including IMO is more to generate revenue on the sale of extra points when resort opens rather then breakage income during operation.

The reason I think it hurts breakage is these rooms do not have high cash to point ratios and as others have said sometimes sit empty. When these rooms go unbooked, the breakage points are not generating revenue and in fact may cost Disney if the owners are using these points to book other rooms with higher cost per point ratios. I actually think these high point, low demand units hurt breakage and is part of reason dvc management has gotten creative with point charts lately to recover lost revenue.

I’ve never done the math but with no lock off premium (studios only) and excess inventory of bungalows, I imagine poly was a net negative in breakage income when added to inventory since the excess points which can’t get studios would trade out for rooms at other resorts worth more then Disney can rent bungalows on open market for cash.

 

[Memorymakerfor4]

I could be wrong, but given time, I think people will choke less and less on the high point cost of cabins as more resorts come out. I just compared 2 bedroom rates for the same week this summer at CCV and RIV and there is a 7-21 point difference per night, depending on if it's a standard or preferred view. If the next resort has a similar increase, the cabins won't look so bad. It won't help 11 month studio availability if those bookings come from owners at other resorts, but will at least keep them 'in house' and help availability across DVC in general.

 

[dvc lover 1970]

Is ccv studio availability still a big issue in august for example at 11months? I’m from U.K. and considering it being my first dvc purchase but am a bit worried about buying there and not being able to get a studio for 2 weeks every other year in august.

I own at CCV and I do not see what people are talking about with the lack of rooms. As long as you make your reservation in the 11 month window you should be fine....with the exception of Thanksgiving to NYE.

 

[sethschroeder]

I could be wrong, but given time, I think people will choke less and less on the high point cost of cabins as more resorts come out. I just compared 2 bedroom rates for the same week this summer at CCV and RIV and there is a 7-21 point difference per night, depending on if it's a standard or preferred view. If the next resort has a similar increase, the cabins won't look so bad. It won't help 11 month studio availability if those bookings come from owners at other resorts, but will at least keep them 'in house' and help availability across DVC in general.

I just looked in summer it's a 60% increase from VGF Lake View to CCV Cabins.

Riviera is said to be high but still is below VGF and Poly while being in the neck of the woods with BLT.

It's unlikely the Cabins are ever even within 20% of other resorts 2BR except possibly the new Disneyland Resort.

 

[New Mouse]

I could be wrong, but given time, I think people will choke less and less on the high point cost of cabins as more resorts come out. I just compared 2 bedroom rates for the same week this summer at CCV and RIV and there is a 7-21 point difference per night, depending on if it's a standard or preferred view. If the next resort has a similar increase, the cabins won't look so bad. It won't help 11 month studio availability if those bookings come from owners at other resorts, but will at least keep them 'in house' and help availability across DVC in general.

On top of that, in theory there are supposed to be changed to the point charts which make monstrosities like bungalows and cabins more appealing to book. I would argue that the past few years Disney has not been doing that, but that should be the goal at least.

 

[mac_tlc]

I do not own at the Poly or CC, but am a 29-year DVC vet. I do not like either arrangement. The number of premium accommodations injects a disproportionate number of points into the entire system relative to the number of available "non-premium" accommodations. It affects everyone and makes the 11-month window very important for all owners. Currently, we tend to book only for a couple days at a time and rarely within the 11 month window. While we can usually find something, it is more of a "take-what-you-can-get" situation. The issue has been coming on for years -- go back and look at what people said about SSR flooding the system. Its just more blunt when you do it like CC and Poly.

mac_tlc