Do you think that not taking a vacation is cheating your kids???

[crisi]

The thing is, once you lose your income, savings eventually run out. It's never enough.

I'm not sure I agree with that. I'm close to "enough" - not "enough" to live well, but enough to live, raise my kids, feed them myself and my husband, heat the house, keep a single running car. It wouldn't be pleasant, which is why I'm still saving.

But it isn't all about saving, we have balance.

 

[wdwfan16]

Exactly. I have to admit, seeing what we've been seeing around us over the last 2 years or so has made me rethink my financial priorities. At some point, I think you have to accept that you're reasonably well prepared and then put the worry aside and live a little.

I also think that conventional financial wisdom has it all backwards right now (apologies to the DR fans) - I think a lot of people would be better of to forget about the interest rates and long term costs and focus instead on real security in case the worst happens. Paying off a credit card saves on interest and fees; paying off a car or a home means that no one can take your means of transportation or your residence if you're out of work long enough to deplete your savings.

There are two different times to consider. When you are working and when you are not.

Working - CC interest robs you of present and future savings.

Unemployed - CC interest is not important as eventually you may file bankruptcy and eliminate it. You need to keep a roof, not necessarily your present home, over our heads, food on the table and a way to find more work.


They can take your home if you don't pay your taxes. (See the 55 years in the house thread.) You get in trouble it you have a car and drive without insurance or proper registeration (varies by state). So your paid off car and home are not worth too much if that is not backed up with cash.

Money in savings buys you time. The more money the more time. If you can buy enought time you can can prevent a catastrophic financial disaster from happening. You will have time to sell your home, yes even in MI, and not just lose it. Time would allow you to keep the home until the turn around happens and then you could sell. Time will allow you to get another job and not lose your home. You need money for gas for the car that you own. Job huntng costs money.

There is a reason they say "Cash is King".

One can save and enjoy life. I know we do and I know others who do as well.

 

[Crystal0608]

We've only done one 10 day vacation since having kids (Disney). They were 4 and 5 when we started doing 3-4 day long weekend trips to the mountains and beach since I can't take more than 2 consecutive days off in the summer at my current job and thats when we like to go places. Last year we visited Williamsburg, Pigeon Forge, and Myrtle Beach, all within a 4-5 hr drive for us. I can plan a good 4-day trip for under $500 staying at clean nice hotel with a pool and preferably free cont breakfast. I know post people don't like timeshares, but we've had some pretty afforable trips this way.

 

[crisi]

I also think that conventional financial wisdom has it all backwards right now (apologies to the DR fans) - I think a lot of people would be better of to forget about the interest rates and long term costs and focus instead on real security in case the worst happens. Paying off a credit card saves on interest and fees; paying off a car or a home means that no one can take your means of transportation or your residence if you're out of work long enough to deplete your savings.

The issue here is that most people have car and home loans at low interest rates and most people have credit cards at much higher interest rates. DR does have it wrong in that its to the best FINANCIAL advantage to pay off your highest INTEREST debt first. But he's going for the psychological bang of feeling like you are making progress.

MOST people will not loose their jobs (well, most of us will at some time or another, but even at the height of the depression the unemployment rate was 25%). Throwing money at a 6% mortgage when you are then racking up 24% on a credit card is throwing money away - UNLESS you know you are going to loose your job and be in a tight spot, in which case protecting you house might be wise - but then, most people aren't going to be able to pay off their house quickly anyway.

 

[rentayenta]

My DH and I just returned from a mini adults only vacation to Pigeon Forge. We had a great time and our cabin was only $176 for 3 nights. Thats really cheap. Anyhoo, I have been thinking about this trip and how if we dont take any other vacations for about 2 years we could possibly get our truck paid off in 18 months. That would leave us owing on our house, a personal loan, and a student loan. plus an extra $500 a month to put toward the next lowest loan we owe on.

Now back to the question, would it be cheating our kids if we didnt take a vacation for a few years? I feel like we owe it to them to take them somewhere because we went on our mini vaca without them.

What would you do???

I haven't read the other responses so sorry if I repeat...........You do not owe it to your children to take them on vacation. You owe them love, food, shelter, healthcare, and an education (in a nutshell).

 

[daleswife]

I think people (the adults) need to admit to themselves that it's really not all about what the kids want, it's what they want.

I have no problem admitting to this either. I am a stay home mommy and I am with my 3 yr old DS 24-7. And lately, because of all the snow, my DD has been here a whole lot too. I think shes been to school 9 days this month. When spring and summer get here, I like to get out of the house and go somewhere and a staycation just wont cut it. I get that I only owe my kids love, shelter, food, and education. and I get NOW that I dont owe them a vacation, and you all have made a very good point. And im realizing now that I want a vacation to get out of my house. Do I deserve it, Prolly not, but I would like to have it. And my kids are 3 and 7 and I think it would be fun to get them out of this house too. I understand about paying off the bills before going on a big vacation, but am now thinking of a smaller long weekend type vacation. I think my kids would like it and it will do me good to get out of my house....But that dang personal loan HAS to go before we take a big vacation!!!!

 

[tinkerbelletreasure]

Glad you figured out what is best for you!

 

[Ka' eo]

I have no problem admitting to this either. I am a stay home mommy and I am with my 3 yr old DS 24-7. And lately, because of all the snow, my DD has been here a whole lot too. I think shes been to school 9 days this month. When spring and summer get here, I like to get out of the house and go somewhere and a staycation just wont cut it. I get that I only owe my kids love, shelter, food, and education. and I get NOW that I dont owe them a vacation, and you all have made a very good point. And im realizing now that I want a vacation to get out of my house. Do I deserve it, Prolly not, but I would like to have it. And my kids are 3 and 7 and I think it would be fun to get them out of this house too. I understand about paying off the bills before going on a big vacation, but am now thinking of a smaller long weekend type vacation. I think my kids would like it and it will do me good to get out of my house....But that dang personal loan HAS to go before we take a big vacation!!!!

Yes! (to the bolded by me) I felt housebound and needed to get out too when my kids were younger. Now that I am working again full time and the kids are in school, I don't have that same type of need.

You have done great!!!!!!!!!!!! Get that darn personal loan done with and then save for that trip! I am so impressed you stuck with this thread! Nice job!

 

[Took]

When I was young we went on vacation every year. Not necessarily to Disney -- sometimes to a cabin on a lake, or to see a historical monument, etc. As an adult, I once said to my mom "We took great vacations..." and she said, "No. We took *cheap* vacations..."

I honestly don't remember anything cheap about it... although I do remember her cooking in the cabin, etc. (One thing I like about vacation is not having to cook!)

My point of the story is -- if vacation is important to you, do something. Your kids will remember the fun and the memories, not how much you spent.

But, as others have said, if you feel that you can't spend *anything,* on a vacation, that's okay, too. You can have family time and make memories at home/free if you make a point to.

THis was my experience, too. Lots of monuments, cheap hotels (eating sandwiches and so forth, no restaurants), and free stuff, but we had lots of fun. Honestly. I didn't go to WDW until I was an adult. But we did "vacation" a good deal for people who were 'blue collar' and sometimes a bit poor. My folks always paid their bills and saved but they also budgeted for trips (by saving and scrimping on other extras). I loved travelling then and think I had a wonderful childhood.

I guess my answer to the OP is that responsible financial planning is important, but do also plan for vacations and other trips, too. Even is you can't take a vacation for a couple of years, you can actively save for it now and have the children see you saving for it. In the meantime, it is possible to do small daytrips once in awhile to a museum or something like that. For younger kids, that can be an adventure, too.

 

[MrsPete]

The thing is, once you lose your income, savings eventually run out. It's never enough. So no, I don't regret any of our vacations taken over the last 30 years. While trips years ago when we were young tended to be charged, these days we pay cash for them. (And remember I grew up next to WDW, so my trips there tended to be day trips when I was young.)

And we have quite a bit in savings. We have a college fund, both cash and prepaid tuition, several 401(k)s, two pension plans, and cash savings. We could last months, but probably not years. Truth is, no one could.

I agree that (except for the mega-wealthy, which I assume is no one here) none of us could make it indefinitely without income . . . but being able to last only months isn't much.

We've been rather afraid for some time that DH might lose his job, and we've gone through the scenerios. IF he were to lose his job, we would cut back immediately in a number of ways, and because our house and cars are paid for, we'd be fine for years. We wouldn't be living like we are right now, but between severence pay, my income, unemployment we wouldn't have to touch savings for a while -- and although we're not Mormon, we have cases and cases of food stored like they do -- and we'd never be on the streets or hungry. We have a multi-fauceted just-in-case plan. We hope never to use it, but we'd be okay.

I also think that conventional financial wisdom has it all backwards right now (apologies to the DR fans) - I think a lot of people would be better of to forget about the interest rates and long term costs and focus instead on real security in case the worst happens. Paying off a credit card saves on interest and fees; paying off a car or a home means that no one can take your means of transportation or your residence if you're out of work long enough to deplete your savings.

Over the years, people on this board have argued against the wisdom of paying off your house early. I've never bought into that idea -- given that a house is both a NEED and an INVESTMENT, I've always thought it made sense to own it (rather than own a mortgage), and -- as you said -- we're seeing now why that's a wise choice.

They can take your home if you don't pay your taxes. (See the 55 years in the house thread.) You get in trouble it you have a car and drive without insurance or proper registeration (varies by state). So your paid off car and home are not worth too much if that is not backed up with cash.

Absolutely true. Even if you straight-out own your house and car, you'll still need some money to continue to own and maintain them . . . BUT if you're talking about keeping a roof over your head and basic transportation during a period of unemployment (or underemployment), owing JUST those taxes and other fees is much more do-able than making payments AND paying those same things. If you were, say, working at a fast food place because you couldn't find a replacement for your professional job, making your mortgage would probably be out of reach . . . but paying your taxes on a mortgage-free house would be possible -- maybe not easy, but possible. So having the house and car paid off is VERY USEFUL. It makes it easier to keep your head above water.

 

[Liberty Belle]

If I could only afford one vacation every year or every couple of years I would not take one without the kids. Yes, I do think it's kind of "cheating them." That's just how I feel and I wouldn't judge someone else who felt differently.

 

[gullyf]

You've got to grind, grind, grind
At that grindstone
Though child'ood slips like sand through a sieve
And all too soon they've up grown
And then they've flown
And it's too late for you to give​

You may not be cheating them, but you might be cheating you. As so many others have posted here, it doesn't have to be extravagant. My two older children didn't get to Disney until they were in their teens. We simply couldn't afford it. Yet we always did something with them for at least a weekend, even when it stretched the budget a bit.

We still managed to pay things down, and eliminating (and now staying out of) debt has always been a priority. We paid cars off as early as possible, keeping them for 10 or more years, made principle payments on the mortgage, and have never really had any new furniture. Today we own the house (for almost 10 years now I guess), have no debt, and have a little saved away, for the most part on a below average income.

Our 7 year old twins have been to Disney half a dozen times now, and have pretty much come to expect it, though we are cutting back like so many others, much to their dismay. But my adult son often says how important our weekend camping trips to the Adirondacks were to him, and somehow I think the twins have actually gotten the raw end of the deal.

Plan for tomorrow, live for today. Sounds terribly philosophical and impractical, but today really is the only thing we have. All too soon your children are off to college or out in the middle of the ocean in a submarine somewhere, and the time to do things is past.

 

[wdwfan16]

These are great points, and often lost on this particular board, where the only thing that seems to matter to people is paying off debt.


To care for my elderly father back in Florida after we moved up to Michigan and, I had to travel back and forth every four months weeks or so. I ran up a fair amount of CC debt doing that. It was NOT something that could be 'put off" or "saved for." And I didn't want to use my emergency savings up for it. Or stop going of vacation with our family. Once we found out he was dying, the trips got even more frequent.

Now, that debt is paid off, and I don't regret it one little bit. Did it cost me some extra money in interest? Yeah, but it was worth it.

Life is all about balance.

Good luck to you.

The thing is, once you lose your income, savings eventually run out. It's never enough. So no, I don't regret any of our vacations taken over the last 30 years. While trips years ago when we were young tended to be charged, these days we pay cash for them. (And remember I grew up next to WDW, so my trips there tended to be day trips when I was young.)

And we have quite a bit in savings. We have a college fund, both cash and prepaid tuition, several 401(k)s, two pension plans, and cash savings. We could last months, but probably not years. Truth is, no one could.

I'm not sure why you leaped to the conclusion we have no savings.

My point was life is about balance. So I'd be culling out some money for savings, and some money for vacations. I also try to take on extra work to pay for things extras these days.

I certainly agree you don't need huge blowout vacations every year...in fact for us, it was traveling with fun people that made for the best vacations, not necessarily where we stayed. For several years we went to a campground on the beach in Florida for a weekend, and I considered that a great vacation!

You did tell how you ran up a CC debt. That would imply lack of liquid savings. A plane ticket a month (If that is what you said) should not cause CC debt unless you are living on the edge.

 

[jodifla]

You did tell how you ran up a CC debt. That would imply lack of liquid savings. A plane ticket a month (If that is what you said) should not cause CC debt unless you are living on the edge.

I don't run to my savings every time something comes up. Once my money goes into savings it stays there. It's a lockbox to me. It's a different philosophy.

I paid with the CC, because I knew I had a lot of extra work coming in and would be able to pay it off relatively quickly.

 

[mafibisha]

You may not be cheating them, but you might be cheating you. As so many others have posted here, it doesn't have to be extravagant.
Plan for tomorrow, live for today. Sounds terribly philosophical and impractical, but today really is the only thing we have. All too soon your children are off to college or out in the middle of the ocean in a submarine somewhere, and the time to do things is past.

YES, ITA!

MOST people will not loose their jobs (well, most of us will at some time or another, but even at the height of the depression the unemployment rate was 25%). Throwing money at a 6% mortgage when you are then racking up 24% on a credit card is throwing money away - UNLESS you know you are going to loose your job and be in a tight spot, in which case protecting you house might be wise - but then, most people aren't going to be able to pay off their house quickly anyway.

If you lose your job, its a different discussion. Losing your job changes everything.

I have to agree with the minority on this board. Life is short, kids are young once, family time is more than precious.

Vacations are critical to me and my family. A "staycation" will not and does not cut it. Really? What's new and exciting about seeing yet another lake? Yet another croweded Mall of America? A vacation to us takes us at least a few hours from home.

We try and do a week long winter vacation to somewhere warm and a weeklong summer vacation to somewhere up north. It's a part of our savings - 1/3 of what I save each month goes into a "vacation" account. 1/3 goes to a regular savings, and 1/3 goes to an "emergency" savings.

And you know what, we were up to our eyeballs in old debt up until last fall. 20K + on credit cards from our younger years. we didn't use our credit cards anymore, but the debt was still there. and we STILL traveled each year. It's how we live and it works for us.

We are debt free now...only the house remains. And some deferred student loans (that I still do make an interest payment on each month so I can stay ahead there). But you know what, it would NEVER stop us from vacationing where and when we want.

My dad and mom took us to WDW, to our cabin up north, to a resort here and there. But they saved for YEARS to have the time/adequate amount of money to do Seattle (taking the train from here). My dad died 3 months after he retired. They never got the chance.

Add me to the minority, too! And there are probably many more here too, but don't wanna get flamed!!
I'm so sorry about your dad ITA with what you're saying, especially the part I put in BOLD. Its been said for years, and here too, that money can always be made, but not time. Time is limited and when its gone, its gone.

To me travel is very, very, very important. Is that an "excuse?" I don't care if it is. I'd rather see the world and have some debt than not travel and be too old to do it, or have my kid be too old to appreciate all the fun things there are too do when you are young.

YES! ITA!

I've been trying NOT to reply to this thread (since some time ago I promised myself not to get involved in these kinds of discussions since there is rarely a point in offering up yet another opinion) but your last three sentences made me change my mind.

Life is short. Life is unpredictable. In life there are no guarantees. And while it's true that I know everyone 'knows' that, I must say that I never really 'understood' what it meant until I had a child with a life-threatening medical condition.

Vacations ARE important. Time away from the everyday routine. Time to really appreciate one another. Time to experience new adventures together as a family. Time to make extra special memories. Sure it's important to make memories every day but memories from special family trips are often extra special. I think it's a mistake to wait 5 yrs, 3 yrs, or "until little Johnny is 'old enough'", or "we pay off the car". Talk to people who have done that and they will often tell you how the years kept rolling along and there was always another reason not to go. Of course in the case of my family, we may have all our debt paid off but be missing our cherished little boy. I think the choice is obvious.

Sure we go to the movies and for day trips to the beach. We play in the backyard and camp out in the family room. We go sledding in the winter and have picnics in the summer. And those activities are wonderful memory making opportunities. But to say they are the same as 3,4, 5+ days in a row; waking up leisurely with NOTHING to do but enjoy our time together as a family, well, that's simply not true. The extended uninterrupted family time is so much more. And I do happen to think that it should be a priority.

Of course like many have said vacations don't have to be expensive. Alot of fun can be had without spending thousands of dollars. Too often people lose sight of that. I actually pride myself on seeing how many trips we can take per year on our vacation budget. It's a hobby. Even Disney can be done without breaking the bank. Don't make the mistake that too many do and think that you have to 'go big' or not go at all. You can have fun no matter how you 'go'. It's all in the attitude.

So I'm going out on a limb and saying that yes you do owe your children, and yourselves, regular vacation time. It is important. Life is supposed to be enjoyed. But obviously be responsible. Establish a budget and stick to it. Pay your bills but make sure that money is set aside for extended uninterrupted family time. You can't count on tomorrow, only today. Enjoy it

Oddly enough my 7 year old 'Wish' child just came up to me, gave me a hug and said "I wish we could live forever". Out of the mouths of babes.

Awe, he sounds so cute.
And yes yes yes yes YES YES YES to everything you said. ITA especially with your post!!!

These are great points, and often lost on this particular board, where the only thing that seems to matter to people is paying off debt.

Yeah, no kidding. And why is that? Paying off debt is important but you can't forget to live in the process. It is all about balance and every situation and family are different. Sometimes the judgment and self-righteous tone here is beyond ridiculous and rude.

 

[Planogirl]

I've noticed that many have said that they are debt free NOW and that's wonderful. However that implies that they did have debt at one time and I would assume that some have been to WDW during that time. Am I wrong?

 

[Ka' eo]

These are great points, and often lost on this particular board, where the only thing that seems to matter to people is paying off debt.

Yeah, no kidding. And why is that? Paying off debt is important but you can't forget to live in the process. It is all about balance and every situation and family are different. Sometimes the judgment and self-righteous tone here is beyond ridiculous and rude.

I think the written word can be easily be misinterpreted both in content and tone. I honestly do not see flaming on this thread. I see people challenging ideas about debt. I do not believe that most people here on this budget board are only focused on paying off debt. I see the mantra as 'living within your means'. I have not seen one post that says they never vacation, buy things or spend money.

People jumped to encourage the OP to "Go! Life is short! You deserve it!" I am so impressed that she figured out what was behind her impulse to disregard her personal loan and spend more money she does not have.

We have a gorgeous old farm, hundreds of acres we have bought (with cash over the years around it), traveled to Europe, South America, the Caribbean, Hawaii, and all over the US including Alaska. We have horses, a boat and a vacation home. I would hardly call this "only focused on paying debt". We work hard, play hard and live within our means. When the time comes to send the kids to college, retire, etc, we'll sell it all, downsize and live really comfortably. We will be able to leave something for our children, as well. This did not just happen. We are not trust fund babies. We went to college, grad school and have been pretty careful about our choices and I did not work for 6 years while our kids were at home and did accrue some cc debt at that time. I hated it!!!!!!!!

If we had not taken all those trips, spent the money on skiing, horses, a vacation home and all the land, we'd have at least 2x the amount we currently have in retirement. (which is a rather large sum) We have chosen to balance spending/saving. I am sure for those of us advocating responsible financing this balance is more the norm.

Paying institutions interest (and sometimes penalities) and depending on credit cards to spend money one does not have is a BAD financial philosophy. Not having savings, emergency funds in case of sickness, death, unemployment or any other disaster is poor planning, and ultimately irresponsible, because it burdens the rest of us.

No flames here, just a difference of opinion. I think the defensiveness comes from truly not reading the intent of posts like mine, if they are interpreted as judgmental and rude.

 

[jodifla]

I think the written word can be easily be misinterpreted both in content and tone. I honestly do not see flaming on this thread. I see people challenging ideas about debt. I do not believe that most people here on this budget board are only focused on paying off debt. I see the mantra as 'living within your means'. I have not seen one post that says they never vacation, buy things or spend money.

People jumped to encourage the OP to "Go! Life is short! You deserve it!" I am so impressed that she figured out what was behind her impulse to disregard her personal loan and spend more money she does not have.

We have a gorgeous old farm, hundreds of acres we have bought (with cash over the years around it), traveled to Europe, South America, the Caribbean, Hawaii, and all over the US including Alaska. We have horses, a boat and a vacation home. I would hardly call this "only focused on paying debt". We work hard, play hard and live within our means. When the time comes to send the kids to college, retire, etc, we'll sell it all, downsize and live really comfortably. We will be able to leave something for our children, as well. This did not just happen. We are not trust fund babies. We went to college, grad school and have been pretty careful about our choices and I did not work for 6 years while our kids were at home and did accrue some cc debt at that time. I hated it!!!!!!!!

If we had not taken all those trips, spent the money on skiing, horses, a vacation home and all the land, we'd have at least 2x the amount we currently have in retirement. (which is a rather large sum) We have chosen to balance spending/saving. I am sure for those of us advocating responsible financing this balance is more the norm.

Paying institutions interest (and sometimes penalities) and depending on credit cards to spend money one does not have is a BAD financial philosophy. Not having savings, emergency funds in case of sickness, death, unemployment or any other disaster is poor planning, and ultimately irresponsible, because it burdens the rest of us.

No flames here, just a difference of opinion. I think the defensiveness comes from truly not reading the intent of posts like mine, if they are interpreted as judgmental and rude.

Thanks for this post! I don't agree entirely with everything you've said, but you made a lot of great points here.

(Your farm sounds great! I'm jealous.)

 

[Ka' eo]

Thanks for this post! I don't agree entirely with everything you've said, but you made a lot of great points here.

(Your farm sounds great! I'm jealous.)

I hope you don't agree with everything! Different viewpoints are important!

Don't be jealous! It takes a lot of upkeep and something is always broken. I bought it when I was in my late 20s when I had no kids. We were parents later in life because we lost our infant son and couldn't conceive again. So we had a lot of years with no kids to really work on finances, schooling etc. By the time we adopted our kids, we were in a good place financially. And as I have said, but not for my dh, I might have spent, spent, spent. We are a good match, he is extremely frugal, I am a bit more carefree. So we have the middle ground, which works!

 

[Colleen27]

I've noticed that many have said that they are debt free NOW and that's wonderful. However that implies that they did have debt at one time and I would assume that some have been to WDW during that time. Am I wrong?

There is nothing quite like the passion of the newly converted...

Maybe that's why I don't quite feel so strongly about it. We never had any "bad" debt and very little "good" debt, and we've always managed a balance between saving for someday and enjoying today.