Do you think Disney makes money on the Fort?

[Katie Dawn]

So, when I first found out Disney had a campground I was thrilled.

I realized I was surprised Disney had a campground because I didn't view a campground as a super profitable business for Disney. (It's not that I don't think that campgrounds can be profitable, I just thought that Disney would probably make more profit on a hotel)

I know that Disney is a for-profit company, and while that fact may not be very important to any of us it is always going to be important for them.

Don't get me wrong ... I was really happy about the very existence of FW, and made reservations very soon after finding out about the Fort. I am so excited about our trip and feel like I have kinda "fallen in love" with FW before even going there. I just thought it probably wasn't a big money maker for Disney. After all, they don't charge nearly as much for the sites as they do for the hotel rooms.

But then it occurred to me that Disney might actually do really well profit-wise at the Fort. Their overhead has got to be really low. For each "room" (aka: campsite) Disney shells out very little for electricity/water, pays much less in staffing "mousekeepers," and the "maintenance" is probably about the same price or even cheaper (i.e. clearing out brush vs. installing new carpets). I wondered if maybe Fort Wilderness is actually a big money maker.

I do know that campers are less likely to buy as much food while on property, which cuts into the amount of money Disney brings in; that's another factor to consider.

So what do you think? Do you think the Fort is somewhat profitable or quite profitable for Disney? There may be some of you who read this and think, "Who cares!" but I know there are probably also some of you out there who think about stuff like this too. (I don't know why I'm always thinking about stuff like this ... I think it's partially my degree in psychology ... I'm always wondering what "motivates" people)

I can absolutely see why Disney opened the Fort in the 70's. But why do you think Disney has decided to KEEP it open? Profit? It gives Disney a "outdoorsy/country" aspect (like HDDR and campfire)? They figure they'll get people that wouldn't normally stay on property to stay at the Fort? They know they have a loyal following and will always be able to "maintain" a certain level of visitors?

I know that we're not going to come up with a definitive answer here, I'm just curious to hear your opinions.

I look forward to hearing your thoughts!!!

 

[kimluvswdw]

Have you seen the price of beer at the fort? Profit, Oh Yeah!

 

[Katie Dawn]

Have you seen the price of beer at the fort? Profit, Oh Yeah!

Ah ha! We've solved the mystery ... Disney decided that the solution to the problem could be found in beer.

There are many who have come to the same conclusion about beer.

 

[des1954]

Ah ha! We've solved the mystery ... Disney decided that the solution to the problem could be found in beer.

There are many who have come to the same conclusion about beer.

Beer can be the solution to many, many problems!!

 

[Disney Campers]

I'd like to think it is "some What" profitable, comparing campsites to hotel rooms you probably make a lot more on rooms. the fort is very big and takes a lot of cast members to maintain, look at all the busses dedicated just to the fort for example - that's got to be expensive. because of the size of the fort most cast members need transportation.. cars, trucks, vans and specialty carts for the site crews etc.

As far as departments in side of Fort Wilderness I'm guessing the bike barn is most profitable, those electric carts probably have a very short ROI period.

I'd like to think the Fort was Walt's idea and would be sacred, keeping the number crunchers at bay.

Profitability is probably why another campground has not been opened on property - hard to justify when the hotels make more money

 

[Thumper_ehhhhh]

The Fort makes money. There primary goal along with the value resorts are not to make the money off of you at the hotel or campsite. It's to get you there and spend the money in the Parks. With that said. There is no house keeping as you have your own trailer. No laundry to clean. Yes they make alot of money off those golf carts and rentals. Yes they have other stuff like buses but in the big picture you can spend alot more money than someone who is flying. Your not limited on space as much. We spend alot more when we drive verses flying. When a site is empty there is no extra cost to them other than a empty site. When a room is empty thats a bigger loss. Not that there is alot of empty spots anywhere at Disney for to long.

 

[HappyDznyCamper]

I can absolutely see why Disney opened the Fort in the 70's. But why do you think Disney has decided to KEEP it open?
I look forward to hearing your thoughts!!!

Why has Disney kept the Fort open? Simple economics of supply and demand. There as always been a demand for camping spaces and now even for cabins. If you look at some old FW maps you will see that it has indeed grown over the years. Many regulars report that it is hard to get sites these days. So as long as the Fort is "full" it will continue.

P.S. Hi from west Knox

 

[Katie Dawn]

Thanks for replying... you've brought up some new aspects I hadn't thought of (the cost of bus transportation, empty sites being cheaper than empty rooms, and the idea that the Fort might remain in part because it was Walt's "baby").

I also had thought that because demand seems to be so high Disney may have a "if it ain't broke don't fix it attitude." In other words, it might not be making a ton of profit -- but it is definitely consistent.

Any other thoughts?

P.S. Hi from west Knox

Maggie, hello from West Knox to you too.

 

[Colson39]

I can almost guarantee you that Disney would not run a resort that was not profitable, I'm pretty sure they make a pretty penny on the Fort. Maybe even an ugly penny.

Sure, it's probably not as profitable as a hotel room, but it still makes money.

 

[Gatordad]

How is it not as profitable as a hotel room? Your capital costs will kill you on a hotel room. For $80 a night, they give you water, electric and a hole in the ground. And that's not counting the people that are doleing out $300+ for a singlewide covered with wood.

They make a boatload of cash on FW.

 

[Colson39]

Well, depends on the hotel room. If we're talking All Star, it might be. If we're talking Grand Floridian, I highly doubt it. And with the cabins, those are basically hotel rooms so they of course make lots of profit.

The Fort probably has a profit margin comparable to the value/moderate resorts. You're right that the costs of the footage of a hotel room are more compared to an empty plot of land.

 

[Bunchkin]

I'm positive they are making a profit.

We just plunked down a bunch of loot to stay in a cabin and to have a golf cart for 6 days.
And we were happy to do it I might add!!!

The loop we were in, 2800, was packed when we were there. I don't think there was a single cabin empty that I noticed. Maybe one or two on our last day.

 

[Minnie's Mate]

I don't see how you can compare a value resort room to a Ft. Wilderness camp site. With the exception of value season, the price of a preferred site is about 75%, or more, of that of a Value Resort room and you furnish all of the accommodations, linens, house keeping, and clean the site when you leave!--alright, they blow it off with a leaf blower, but they don't use a vacuum cleaner or mop in the bathroom or clean the shower and vanity...what shower and vanity.

Yes, they make money and plenty of it. One way to look at it is they make money off of every family that stays on site and in many instances the families that stay at Ft. Wilderness might not be able to stay on property if they didn't have FW to stay at and that would mean that accommodation expense would be going to KOA-Kissimee or one of the other local camp grounds. If campers are going to Disney they might as well stay on property and pay that money to Disney!

 

[bigdisneydaddy]

Beer can be the solution to many, many problems!!

Beer makes people smarter, girls prettier, campfires warmer, bigdisneydaddys happy and on and on.......

Back the original topic....... the mere fact that FW still exists today is proof of its profitability, Disney doesnt hang on to things they cant make money on.

Scott

 

[parrothead365]

I'm sure they make money. I learned a long time ago not to get between Mickey and a dollar.

 

[mousebrain]

I have done the math also, and it is not all that cheap to camp at Ft. Wilderness if you get a preffered site. An All-stars room is not that much more at all. We can fit the whole crew on one site (7 people) were in most cases we would have to rent 2 rooms. We are primarily in the parks all day anyway, it doesn't make sense to spend alot on a room that we won't be hardly in anyway. So the money we save on not having 2 rooms allows us to afford the dining package! So preferred site plus dining package plus tickets..... times 4 kids and 1 junior and 2 adults, yep they make money. But on the other hand, they spend alot also.... keeping the boats floating has got to cost, in addition to the busses. That is the best secret about the fort is access to the boats. SSSHHHH!!

plus $9 for a pint of tequila......

Hey ya all!
Peace!

Mousebrain

 

[Katie Dawn]

Great discussion!

I definitely agree that if Disney was not making profit the Fort would be scrapped.

But obviously it IS making money, because it's still around. I just have wondered if it was a moderate money maker or a pretty good money maker.

I don't suppose we can say it's a windfall, because as a PP said, if they made tons of money you know that Disney would have several campgrounds! They have to do okay though.

And I'm glad -- cause we all get to go!

Everyone have a great rest of your week!

 

[clkelley]

Who knows what the actual dollar values are. On the same square footage as a campsite, they can put 3 All-Star Rooms (3 stories to the building) or 4 Pop Century rooms (4 stories to the building), however, then you have to subtract housekeeping for 3 or 4 rooms each day, towels, linens, soaps, shampoos for 3 or 4 rooms each day. They only clean the sites at the end of each stay. (Do they also give them a once over if it has been empty for a few days before someone checks in??) The only daily cleaning is 20 some odd bath houses and laundry rooms. As far as "Walt" things being sacred, I'm afraid there are very few "Walt" things that are regarded as sacred any longer.

I dunno, but I'm glad it's there!!!

 

[ftwildernessguy]

For gross revenue, I'm sure any of the other resorts will easily top the Fort. I would not be surprised, however, if FW comes closer to the top when you look at gross vs. net.

 

[Sammi2]

The A/C bill alone for the resort hotels must be mind numbing.

I think it also goes into the elastic vs. inelastic economics concepts. My vacation budget is relatively inelastic. I will spend about the same amount on vacation, regardless of whether it's weighted towards hotel costs or weighted towards being able to buy more junk and buy higher priced entrees for dinner (and a few more beers). Its inelasticity is also seen in the number of times I might go on a certain vacation, or the length of time I stay. I'll stay longer if I'm at the fort vs at a hotel, thus going to the park more often and buying more food overall.

My basic premise is as others have stated. Its making money or it wouldn't be there.