Do you believe in spanking??

[themarquis]

When children are small there HAS to be a line they can't cross. Its so far and no further. They NEED bounderies, they NEED to know what the rules are and how to live with them so that they can join society properly. There are so many children who have grown up without any bounderies they think they can set light to homeless people for fun. Not only do I think spanking should be allowed but (for the UK) the birch should be brought back. I am totally fed up of gangs of young thugs beating people up and killing for fun!

I find it a bit hard to believe that all the modern world's ills are caused by parents no longer beating their children with a switch. Wouldn't that be great though ... we could cure violence, gang warfare, and people setting the homeless on fire(??!) in one fell swoop! Alright, someone hand me a beatin' stick -- I'm off to end violence!

 

[mommaU4]

Do you believe in spanking??

I do but not exclusively. In other words, it depends on the situation. Some cases only a warning is needed. In others a time out. In some taking away a privelege will do and then some times a spank on the bottom is what is needed.

 

[Beca]

Alright, someone hand me a beatin' stick -- I'm off to end violence!

Where IS that darn tag fairy at times like this!!!!

 

[kinntj]

Alright, someone hand me a beatin' stick -- I'm off to end violence!

I almost fell out of my chair laughing so hard reading this one line. Tears are coming down.

Seriously though, I see kids who are spanked and push their parents even harder wondering if they will one up. You could go either way with this, but blaming one side or the other isn't ending the violence.

 

[kimberlym4]

I hope this hasn't already been said, but there might be some serious problems with these kinds of studies. Even if the researchers are very careful to get randomized groups of children who have been spanked/not spanked and have controlled for race, socioeconomic status, region, religion, etc., there will be certain factors common to each group which have nothing to do with spanking per se but which might themselves cause behavioral differences in children.

For example, if you get together a randomized, controlled group of people who spank, you may find that many or most of them are also harsher disciplinarians in general, may have different educational backgrounds than the nonspanking group, and will have different ideas about childrearing, child development, and child behavior than the nonspanking group. It could therefore productively be argued that it is this group's *particular beliefs about discipline/childrearing* which cause behavior differences in their kids; rather than that spanking itself causes the behavior differences. It seems to me that perhaps saying spanking itself causes x y and z (whether x y and z are good or bad things) is very simplistic. I'm not really firmly on either side of the debate, but I would tend to be suspicious of this kind of study.

You are exactly correct. There are problems with this research. Exactly in the way that you describe. That's why I said it isn't perfect. To do a perfect study that isn't correlational you would have to randomly assign kids to spanking and nonspanking groups before they are even born. Obviously unethical and impossible. So the correlational studies I mentioned are done instead. Every study tries to control for different things (like *particular beliefs about discipline*). After awhile the research results may "converge" on a common theme. In this case that spanking may cause more problems than it solves.

By the way, smoking/cancer research has the same problem. The only "true" experiment would be to assign at birth kids to a smoker and nonsmoker condition. Can't be done. So now we look at self-selected groups of smokers and nonsmokers. And yes, there can be other things that cause the cancer. Perhaps those who get stressed easily choose to smoke and it's the stress not the smoking that causes cancer. So other researchers try to test whether stress causes cancer. It doesn't. As more of these kinds of studies are done the evidence "converges" and we can say that smoking causes cancer.

 

[Shere_Khan]

Sorry but I got the belt when I was young and I am probably the least violent person I know. I don't even like watching movies with violence and killing, I'm sensitive.
And when I did get the belt, do you think I made the same mistake twice? Not a chance!

I am not saying hitting a child with a belt is right - but I also think I had wonderful parents.
But in my opinion a swat on the butt with your hand is NOT child abuse.

 

[kimberlym4]

I find it a bit hard to believe that all the modern world's ills are caused by parents no longer beating their children with a switch. Wouldn't that be great though ... we could cure violence, gang warfare, and people setting the homeless on fire(??!) in one fell swoop! Alright, someone hand me a beatin' stick -- I'm off to end violence!

 

[Beca]

kimberlym4....totally O.T.

But, you know your siggy is "out of date" right??

We were singing that the other night, and my 4yr old dd said:

"Dad, that's not the way it goes. It goes like this:

M-I-C-K-E-Y M-O-U-S-E
It's the Mickey Mouse Clubhouse.
Come inside, it's fun inside
It's the Mickey Mouse Clubhouse.
Come inside, it's fun inside."

Then, of course...she started shouting out the names of "Fab 5" at the top of her lungs....

Who knew, even THAT song was now a "classic" version??


Okay....back to the orginal discussion!!!

 

[Castillo Mom]

I have 3 respectful, loving, well behaved teenage sons and all 3 were spanked in addition to using other forms of discipline. None of them have a violent bone in their body and although there's the occasional sibling rivalry, they don't hit each other and I've never had a teacher tell me they've ever hit another child. I've been a single parent for 2 years now and work full time and can do so with peace of mind because of the boundaries that were set with them since they were very little. I'm very proud of them.

 

[kimberlym4]

kimberlym4....totally O.T.

But, you know your siggy is "out of date" right??

Yes, I know One more thing to show my age. I really wish they would bring back the old version of the Mickey Mouse Club. What they have now is OK but obviously geared to a much younger audience and minus the great variety of entertainment. At least I thought it was great when I was 10!

So.... I'm keeping my siggie till they bring back the old Mickey Mouseclub!!
... that'll show 'em !

 

[Duckfan-in-Chicago]

Actually, I said there were many effective ways to discipline. Time out was only one of them. It doesn't work in every situation. That's why you need many different techniques. When students do poorly I give them "natural, logical consequences" (another one of, what an earlier poster said, the million ways to discipline). They receive a poor grade and possibly no course credit.

Right...but spanking could be an effective means of discipline that doesn't work with college students just like a time out. You ruled out spanking because it wouldn't work with a student who gets a bad grade for your college age students in your example. Why don't you do the same with a technique you support?

Since time outs wouldn't make a college age students study and raise their grades, the next time you have your soap box moment you should say something like 'If someone thinks that spanking and time outs are so effective, I will start spanking and giving time outs to every student that has below a C on the next test. Chances are they would study harder next time right?' At least if you wanted to be fair.

 

[Aisling]

I never spanked my kids. I can't stand it when I see people smacking and hitting their kids. My sons are now 21 and 14, and are respectful, loving guys, never in trouble with the law or in school. So I'm proof that there are other ways to discipline kids without hitting them. I sometimes felt like hitting my kids when they made me very angry, and that feeling just confirmed for me over and over again how wrong spanking is.

 

[katerkat]

I torn - I believe in spanking and have used it as a last resort. The boy has been spanked once, with a well-stuffed cloth diapered bum so I sincerely doubt he felt anything, for trying to push another kid down a set of concrete stairs. He tried it three times in a space of about five minutes - two time outs didn't work and the spanking caught his attention. He cried for about a minute and then was back to playing with his friends - and he's never pushed anyone since.

I've also smacked his hand for touching the TV and DVD player, again as a last resort after redirection and time-outs didn't work. He doesn't touch TVs and other electronics anymore. He was too smart for redirection and time outs don't really seem to do anything at his age, for him.

I don't expect to be spanking him at all ages. Once I learned to read, my mother learned that the most effective punishment for me was taking away my books. I assume that eventually Russ will show a preference for something that will make it effective to take away.

Now, on the other hand, my neighbor spanks freely, and it annoys me. Her son will run and spank their dog when she is barking at the dogs behind their fence - because he thinks she's being bad. And he gets spanked for that. It's very, very circular and I don't think he's learning anything. She also uses his crib as a place for time outs - isn't that against every rule of dog training to not use the "sleeping crate" as a punishment??

 

[chris1gill]

I have kids that are 9 & 12... IMHO we laid down the guidelines for the children from the time they were crawling.... there were expectations set, and it was clearly indicated there would be repercussions should the expectations not be met... With both my DH & I using this method in our child rearing, we have never had to punish either child & I have a wonderful relationship with both of them. They are two wonderful children... Of course that's mostly a result of them and their personalities, but I like to believe I had the tiniest hand in it...

I never see the need to spank... set appropriate expectations, and provide plenty of positive reinforcement....

 

[cats7494]

No - I do not spank my children. DD12 has not been spanked nor do I intend on spanking my dd8months when she gets older.
I do not judge those who do spank..but for my family it is not acceptable.

Although, I have a family member who flicks her children in the hand and that drives me crazy - it just makes me cringe because she always does it for such silly little behavioral things!
They use that baby-wise method - and I completely 100% disagree with the methods detailed by that method. That is a whole different thread there!

 

[sajetto]

I was spanked and so was my DF. Neither one of us appear to have any ticks or twitches.

 

[Stitchfans]

I used to believe in spanking, but not anymore.

 

[HOGFAN]

Im all for spanking. Nothing else really works from what Ive seen. My neighbor doesnt spank her kids and they are the biggest brats!
I was in a store recently and you could hear this kid screaming all over the store. it went on forever. I was really lucky to be checking out behind them. the mom was trying to talk the kid into stop crying. It wasnt working. A good swat on the behind would have been all it took for MY kids to stop.

 

[Nancy]

I never spanked my kids. I can't stand it when I see people smacking and hitting their kids. My sons are now 21 and 14, and are respectful, loving guys, never in trouble with the law or in school. So I'm proof that there are other ways to discipline kids without hitting them. I sometimes felt like hitting my kids when they made me very angry, and that feeling just confirmed for me over and over again how wrong spanking is.

Your last lines say it all...you should NEVER hit an child in anger. When my girls got a small smack on the butt (one smack) it was Never done in anger, it was done to get their attention and make them stop whatever they were doing...and it did. Most times I just had to tell them to stop, but once in a while a bit more reinforcement was needed. Yes, there are ways to discipline without a spanking, I've done others too. One thing I don't do is scream and yell. I might raise my voice a bit and my tone changes...but I don't ever get to the yelling phase. Usually now that the girls are all older I just tell them they are pushing me too far and that stops them in their tracks.

 

[noodleknitter]

What always amazed me were those who made such a big deal about not spanking, but would shake, scream, cuss, shove, push and kick their child. All in anger.

We've spanked, but understood early it does no good if the kid wins the emotional battle (pisses you off to the point you lose control, verbally, emotionally or physically.)

Discipline is so very much different than punishment.