Do u use re-usable bags? If so, read this...

Also, a reminder that E Coli is an ADULTERANT in meat. It's not supposed to be there. If people are finding E Coli everywhere, we're really in trouble. :faint: (Which is why I'd tend to be skeptical about these findings, especially if it was commissioned by the plastics industry, lol .)

With that said, I don't use reusable bags simply because I never remember to bring them with me. And if I did, I definitely wouldn't put dripping meat packages in there. :scared:
 
So the vast majority of Europeans (in the countries I am familiar with anyway--Germany, Spain and France mostly) use cloth bags for nearly all of their grocery shopping. I don't think people come down with E coli based illnesses here at a greater rate than in the USA:confused3 If this were really a problem I think we would see a jump in such illnesses in countries that use the bags often.
 
The other side of the story:
Then again, you may want to consider the dirty bag study in proper perspective, because funding for it came from the American Chemistry Council which represents plastic bag makers, among others. They, in turn, are fighting a bill in California's state assembly that would ban the use of plastic bags.
[Source; KGO San Francisco]
 
I have a question. If E.Coli is present how would one contract it? If you have e.coli in the bag, would cooking/washing the food get rid of the possibility of it?
 

I wash our reusables pretty regularly although not every time. I also resuse the plastic grocery bags for trash for my car, my bus and kitty litter.
 
Common sense should dictate that you don't put raw meat directly in a re-usable bag. We use a liner bag each time.

Also important to note (as it was in our newspaper) is that this study was commissioned and released by the plastics industry. They clearly have a vested interest in promoting the use of plastic bags rather than re-usable bags.

Very interesting


I have a question. If E.Coli is present how would one contract it? If you have e.coli in the bag, would cooking/washing the food get rid of the possibility of it?

Yes you can get rid of it by cooking but only at a certain temp for a certain amount of time. We just had a few students get very sick with ecoli from eating hamburgers, and they were cooked. Also just a quick washing of your produce won't get rid of it.
 
I worry more about E.coli when I go out to eat at restaurants - not shopping at grocery stores. At least the food I prepare for my family has been properly washed, prepped and cooked. It's not eaten straight out of the cloth bag!
 
I have washed our reuseable bags with no problem. Also we always put our meat and produce in plastic bags. If the meat seems to be really drippy, then we double bag it.

I don't have any of the plastic type, so I don't know how they wash up. But it would make sense that you could probably wipe them down with Lysol.
 
I saw this yesterday on the news and read about it my local paper. Nasty.
 
I have a question. If E.Coli is present how would one contract it? If you have e.coli in the bag, would cooking/washing the food get rid of the possibility of it?
Not necessarily. It takes just a very few bacteria to cause an infection.

E Coli is present in the bowels of animals, mainly cattle, where it does them no harm. (There are theories out there that if they ate grass like they were supposed to, instead of cheaper "grain", E Coli bacteria wouldn't have evolved like it has. There are different strains of E Coli, but 0157:H7, the one commonly found in hamburger, produce and petting zoos is the deadliest. It can cause kidney failure, stroke and even death.) If during the slaughter process the contents of the animals' bowels gets on or ground into the meat, then it stays there to comes home to you.

Once home, just a drop of the bloody meat on the counter is enough to be transmitted and cause illness. Making hamburgers with bare hands using contaminated meat, as one could imagine, could spread it to all kinds of places - a dish towel, countertops, sink handles, cabinet handles, etc, if one's not careful about not touching things with adulterated meat on their hands.

Even if one is careful about handling contaminated raw meat, eating is a whole other ball of wax. In theory, meat needs to be cooked to 160 degrees in order to kill bacteria. But whether this is an exact science is highly questionable, as people still get E Coli illnesses even when food is cooked "properly".

Once ingested, they settle in your bowels, grow there, and give you a nasty GI infection. The scary part about 0157:H7 has a toxin that releases into the bloodstream as it dies off. This causes a cascade of problems in the body involving clumping of red blood cells which then travel through organs and cause big problems there, kidney failure, or hemolytic uremic syndrome, being the most common, especially in children and the elderly (as if the extremely painful illness isn't enough).

Many times when there's an illness, it's not known exactly how the illness was contracted, but studies have been done in actual microbiology labs to try to prevent spread of infection of E Coli using techniques a typical homemaker would use, and microbiologists were unable to prevent the spread of E Coli around the "kitchen". If they couldn't, that's a big problem for the rest of us. FYI E Coli also survives the freezing process.

When there's an "outbreak", they actually go in and study the DNA of the bacteria [that's come out of people] in order to identify other cases and a source, as you see recalls when there are a large number of cases. And yes, cases in an outbreak came from one source, ie one cow, maybe another, whose bowel contents spilled on the meat during the slaughter process and was never caught via testing of said meat (which is another ball of wax, most don't test in the first place, yet there you have a USDA stamp on the package saying it's safe to eat).

An important point to ponder is that a recall is a failure of the system. We basically shouldn't be seeing recalls if food was inspected and tested properly. Food safety needs an overhaul, and there are people working on it, but the process is slow, and unfortunately people are getting sick and dying from food in the meantime. :mad:

As for things like produce, cookie dough, petting zoos, raw milk, again, the bacteria is transmitted by the fecal-oral route, which means that animals' stool contents are eaten, basically, as gross as that sounds. Produce is washed with water that may have been runoff from fields where animals are; petting zoos, well, animals get stool on their fur when they lay down and we touch them then touch our mouths (which is why they have Purell now at most petting zoo stations), and cookie dough, last I checked, is still unknown how E Coli got in there (but it had to come from stool somehow), and raw milk gets bacteria in it during the milking process and then is not pasteurized.

If all this makes you really nervous, you shouldn't. It's very rare. But it is around and it is increasing. Everyone needs to know how to protect themselves from it. It is spread very easily, and person to person transmission via the fecal-oral route is high once someone's harboring the bacteria in their system.

A word about hamburger. Be very careful about it. It's usually the culprit in an outbreak. Ground beef is made from cheap cuts of meat that may come from different cows and all ground together without testing of individual components. Often it is then washed with ammonia to kill off any E Coli that might be present, and again, not tested before sending out to consumers. If it's "undercooked" (and not just meaning with pink centers), you win the illness. Steaks and other muscle cuts are usually (but not always) safe because if there is bacteria on the outside of the meat, it will probably be cooked off. With hamburger, the inside isn't always cooked enough to kill it.

The only other thing I want to add, is that I've seen people say they're going to buy steaks and have their butcher ground them themselves, etc. You will still have a potential problem if there's E Coli on the outside of that steak, it is then ground into the inside, and it's not cooked thoroughly. You also have the handling issue of contaminated beef. I've also seen people say they're going to buy organic beef, but that can be an issue as well. They're rare, but organic farms do have E Coli outbreaks, and Whole Foods even had an E Coli 0157:H7 outbreak recently which at first they denied ("not us!"), but DNA testing confirmed it was from them. Turns out their grass fed, well loved cows were slaughtered at one of the nastiest slaughterhouses our country has when the facility they normally use was closed down, and consumers were unaware. So you just basically have to be very careful about eating beef.
 
It's everywhere....:scared1:

Seriously - wash your hands and don't lick the cart and you'll be fine.;)

exactly!

whole thing is being somewhat exaggerated, IMHO.

we use re-usable bags. Of course you have to wash them from time to time. Just common sense.
 
I don't get it either :confused3



Don't people put the packages of meat in plastic bags? My grocery store has little bags that you put the meat in. Same with vegetables. Do other stores have this?

I thought all stores had them. Maybe not? I would never put meat in my bag without it being in a plastic bag first. Who wants all that blood and stuff dripping onto your other groceries? Eww!!!!
 
Something that just occurred to me. . .would it also be reasonable to assume that there is probably e.coli on shopping carts?

Exactly. The carts are probably crawling with germs. Not to mention they are used over and over in the same day. The germs don't have a chance to die off. My bags are used once per week, and left in my car sitting in the sun where the high temps and length of time probably kill the germs. Are we going to stop using shopping carts now? What about the belt where we place our groceries at checkout? I know they don't clean inbetween each order.


To the PP who says that the e coli can come from the produce... Well then that means you will be getting it from your produce no matter how you bag it. Think of all the hands from people touching the produce every day. People pick it up, squeeze it, smell it etc.



I have been using cloth bags for a long time, and my family doesn't get sick more often than others. In fact we probably do less. I think we are fine, and we will continue to help keep plastic (and paper) bags out of the landfills!
 
Exactly. The carts are probably crawling with germs. Not to mention they are used over and over in the same day. The germs don't have a chance to die off. My bags are used once per week, and left in my car sitting in the sun where the high temps and length of time probably kill the germs. Are we going to stop using shopping carts now? What about the belt where we place our groceries at checkout? I know they don't clean inbetween each order.


To the PP who says that the e coli can come from the produce... Well then that means you will be getting it from your produce no matter how you bag it. Think of all the hands from people touching the produce every day. People pick it up, squeeze it, smell it etc.



I have been using cloth bags for a long time, and my family doesn't get sick more often than others. In fact we probably do less. I think we are fine, and we will continue to help keep plastic (and paper) bags out of the landfills!

Absolutely agree.
 
I heard this on the news but all I could think was, "duh!" of course, you're supposed to wash them!

I don't put anything in those smaller plastic bags. The whole point in using re-usable bags is to cut down on plastic usage! :confused:
 
I wash my bags, and I put my meat and product into the plastic bags provided by the grocery stores. :)
 


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