Disturbing incident at Epcot last Thursday . . .

[salmoneous]

In this case I find it very degrading to the child to be treated like an animal.

The thing is, I don't see anything the slightest bit degrading about a leash. If it's a tool that helps mom and the child, why knock it? Just because the same tool is also useful on animals?

 

[planning06]

The thing is, I don't see anything the slightest bit degrading about a leash. If it's a tool that helps mom and the child, why knock it? Just because the same tool is also useful on animals?

I agree. I think some people just can't get past a mental image, no matter how illogical it is.

 

[cleo]

Whoa, Cool-Beans! I didn't even notice your name until you quoted me, so I certainly wasn't singling you out for condemnation. And I didn't mean anything insulting by using a smilie. They are just a commonly used means of communicating an emotion and, just as text can be misconstrued, apparently so can smilies.

I was reacting to a general attitude you see on chat forums. When people don't have to face the person they are talking to, they tend to lay blame in large and unhappy slabs upon people they have never met over issues they may never have experienced. It certainly has nothing to do with you personally.

 

[TinkNH]

Is anyone else completly in awe that a thread about lost children and ways to prevent that from happening turned into arguments about parenting ?? I know I am sorta new here...but people please...do you have to argue about everything????

 

[TinkerbellMama]

Like animals, people (including adults) can be trained through reward/punishment.

HUH????
So you think children should be "trained through punishment" like dogs, but not "leashed like dogs"???
My opinion is that it's much kinder to use a harness on a child than to PUNISH him/her for NORMAL toddler behavior.
My son is a runner, and I know this. I choose not to use a harness, because we are more than able to keep up with him (he is my only and there are 4 or more adults with him in WDW, no other children). However, I don't judge others who choose to use harnesses. I'd much rather see THAT than see a 1 year old being PUNISHED for being a normal 1 year old.

 

[mlayton14]

Bottom line - it is the Parents and SOLELY the PARENTS responsibility to make sure their child doesnt get lost.

Any child can get lost, but the panicked, finger-pointing OP are examples of parents who dont seem to have a clue whose responsibility it is to locate their child. Postpone the fireworks?? Are you nuts??? Inconvenience 20,000 customers, workers, and others because you lost your own child?

I could see if there were a medical emergency or a KNOWN dangerous situation for the customers in the park. But this is case that happens every single day at Disney ..

If you dont have a system for tracking your child, you have to ask yourself why that is and who's fault it is.

And no I dont think parents whose kids get lost are necessarily bad parents, but dont go around blaming others like the OP.

 

[curiouser]

Is anyone else completly in awe that a thread about lost children and ways to prevent that from happening turned into arguments about parenting ?? I know I am sorta new here...but people please...do you have to argue about everything????

when it comes to parenting and the DIS boards? unfortunately, yes...

you know, I had no idea what Code Adam was until this thread DBF and I would walk into stores going "what the heck is Code Adam?"

 

[wanna-b-Tink]

We lost our two children ages 2 and 6 at the time, after the costume contest at MNSSHP a couple of years ago. They were in the little pageant-y contest, walking around in a circle to music with the other children. We were watching them. Then, when it was over, all the kids disbursed, and all of a sudden we couldn't find them. I convinced the dj to call for them, which he did, and another mom brought them to the stage. I've never been so scared in my life.

My son remembers the specific area we lost him in and even to this day he doesn't like going to that area.


I was at Downtown Disney one night several years ago. They were closing the shops, so it had to be what, about midnight? Anyway, there was a lady in the parking lot screaming for "Jordan". I'll never forget that. I'll never forget the name. I thought to myself that the child was probably swept off in another vehicle and gone. I didn't go up to the mom - she was hysterical - but I did walk around for quite a while looking for a child who looked alone. I don't know if the child was ever found. I think about this lady every time I go to DD.

 

[brbenoit]

HUH????
So you think children should be "trained through punishment" like dogs, but not "leashed like dogs"??? ...

People in general are trained through punishment and reward. In general (there are always exceptions) that is how the world works. If a person steals should they not be punished? More important than punishement are rewards for appropriate behavior.

The difference between animals and people is the ability to comminicate a reason. Even at young ages 2/3 children can comprehend the statement that they should not do something because that can be hurt. A dog does not have that capacity.

I'd much rather see THAT than see a 1 year old being PUNISHED for being a normal 1 year old.

This creates the slippery slope, talking about a 1 year old is different than a 4, or 5 or 6 year old. There are people who feel that throwing tantrums in puplic is normal behavior. Or eating directly off the table without plates.

It might be perfectly normal to pick up something and throw it. Let's say that there is a table with breakable objects on it. Should there be no punishment if a 1 year old picks up something they shouldn't. That is normal 1 year old behaviour, should it go unchecked?

 

[Sleeping Becca]

People in general are trained through punishment and reward. In general (there are always exceptions) that is how the world works. If a person steals should they not be punished? More important than punishement are rewards for appropriate behavior.

The difference between animals and people is the ability to comminicate a reason. Even at young ages 2/3 children can comprehend the statement that they should not do something because that can be hurt. A dog does not have that capacity.



This creates the slippery slope, talking about a 1 year old is different than a 4, or 5 or 6 year old. There are people who feel that throwing tantrums in puplic is normal behavior. Or eating directly off the table without plates.

It might be perfectly normal to pick up something and throw it. Let's say that there is a table with breakable objects on it. Should there be no punishment if a 1 year old picks up something they shouldn't. That is normal 1 year old behaviour, should it go unchecked?

You are absolutely right, I'm sold. It is perfectly acceptable to teach your children to call other children "puppies".

You can say all you want to defend your stance that leashing your children is wrong. You have a convoluted yet perfectly understandable point of view. But you don't have a leg to stand on about teaching your children to make fun of other children.

 

[planning06]

This creates the slippery slope, talking about a 1 year old is different than a 4, or 5 or 6 year old. There are people who feel that throwing tantrums in puplic is normal behavior. Or eating directly off the table without plates.

It might be perfectly normal to pick up something and throw it. Let's say that there is a table with breakable objects on it. Should there be no punishment if a 1 year old picks up something they shouldn't. That is normal 1 year old behaviour, should it go unchecked?

I think the problem is there are different appropriate responses depending on age and maturity level. Age 1 redirection is best. Age 2/3 redirection and you can start incorporating in consequences to actions. As they get older, response to unwanted behavior should continue to change with the child's maturity level.

The problem with across the board proclamations, that tend to happen on bbs, is these kinds of constantly changing responses are ignored.

 

[ExPirateShopGirl]

My wife doesn't like the fact that I've taught our daughter to say "What a cute puppy" when kids on a lease go by.

Your wife is right. Bullies and bores don't just happen. They are taught, as you've demonstrated.

 

[Rpsemont]

I ahven't read the WHOLE thread and it seemd to have gottent a bit Off topic and this may have been mentioned but reading this makes me think of a couple suggestions:
1) if you have a picture cell phone or digital camera, take a picture of your family when you head to the parks. Then you'll be sure to remember exactly what they're wearing. You can erase it at the end of the day.
2) the rule that DD and I have had since she's been about 7 y.o. and admitedly only is good in stores, is "don't leave the store without me - no matter what anyone says" We're paged each other in stores a few times (though not at WDW)

 

[kimmikayb]

You are absolutely right, I'm sold. It is perfectly acceptable to teach your children to call other children "puppies".

You can say all you want to defend your stance that leashing your children is wrong. You have a convoluted yet perfectly understandable point of view. But you don't have a leg to stand on about teaching your children to make fun of other children.

ITA with you Becca!! What a absolutely horrible thing to teach a child!!

 

[Eeyore2003]

Is anyone else completly in awe that a thread about lost children and ways to prevent that from happening turned into arguments about parenting ?? I know I am sorta new here...but people please...do you have to argue about everything????

Unfortunately yes. And as you can see there are MANY narrow minded judgmental opinions around the DIS. Everybody knows everything about everyone even though they really know nothing about anyone, but like to tell them what to do and how to behave and think.

I personally don't think anyone should tell any parent what to do until they're own children are completely grown. The older the kids get, the more humble a parent becomes. Mine are in college, I judge no one, and thank my lucky stars that my boys are very nice wonderful young men. How they got that way I hope is because of some good parenting and a loving home, but looking back...it's a hard road and like I said, very humbling.

Let's just put it this way. Before I had kids I was the perfect parent, and would of course have perfect children because I KNEW exactly how to raise them right......27 years later..... I am humbly grateful that they turned out as they did, realizing how little I know.

 

[golden1]

A 1 or 2 year old is more difficult, you can't fully reason with them but you can work to lay the foundation. Like animals, people (including adults) can be trained through reward/punishment.

My dd was very clingy and I never had to worry about her running away. She holds on to the stroller or my hand when we walk anywhere. My now two year old ds is a darter. He sees something and snap, he is gone, just like that! We are working on teaching him to stay with us and are making progress but he still runs away. I don't like harnesses generally but you bet we will have one for WDW. I hope we don't need to use it but it is just too scary.

 

[tink1978]

Disney CM's usually help with this situation....maybe they already had informed someone else who was dealing with it. Also, if you have lost kids, go to Guest Services, that's where CM's take lost children. I have seen two lost children in the parks over the years and I took one to Guest Services and handed another off to a CM. When I got to Guest Services, the boys parents were already waiting there looking for him.

 

[TinkNH]

Unfortunately yes. And as you can see there are MANY narrow minded judgmental opinions around the DIS. Everybody knows everything about everyone even though they really know nothing about anyone, but like to tell them what to do and how to behave and think.
.......

I think being sort of a newbie I am still shocked that there is so much negativity flying around here.
I totally agree with you. I may have opinions about how children should be raised, but I would never tell anyone what to do. I even have a hard time giving advise when it is asked for (I worked with children in a residential setting for 10 years and was a teacher for 8 yrs after that, so I get asked a lot of questions by friends and family) I also know that the way I viewed parenting before I had a child was vastly different than now..heck I think about things differently now than last week sometimes! I also know that my parents were a lot smarter than I gave them credit for when i was growing up.
They taught me not to judge people, not by the way they look, dress, religion, ethnicity, weight, sex, orientation..ect ect. And I try my hardest to never judge someone untill I know them. I say try because being a human I am flawed by nature and will make mistakes..and will jump to conclusions.
I think the world would be a much better place if people would worry more about themselves and criticise others less.

 

[disneytraveler]

They do NOT make announcements for lost adults (the children are never lost, it's the adults that are lost).

I would bet that they temporarily lose hundreds of parents a day.

In the millions of families that visit WDW a year, this ONE incident gives you concern? In a closed environment? With cameras and security everywhere?

You think they've got this kind of security at your kids' school? THAT'S something to worry about! Or, how about the local mall? Or Toys R Us?

I'd put Disney's track record up against anyone you want.

This is true i guess ,One year i heard an annnoucement concerning lost parents and would they come to a particular area.

 

[janey99]

Any child can get lost, but the panicked, finger-pointing OP are examples of parents who dont seem to have a clue whose responsibility it is to locate their child. Postpone the fireworks?? Are you nuts??? Inconvenience 20,000 customers, workers, and others because you lost your own child?

QUOTE]

Hi - I'm the OP. I'm a little confused about why you are attributing these behaviors to me. This thread started with me relating an incident I had observed involving OTHER PEOPLE.