Disney World Employees Picket Park

[WDWKOOK]

Update: Page 3/post 35.


http://www.wesh.com/themeparks/25971129/detail.html



Disney World workers say they rely on handouts:

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSN304043720101130

 

[Oglet]

Disney is a company and should rightfully be able to make a profit after all thats the reason that any for profit company exists however the fact that this company is making quite healthy profits and many of their employees are forced into some sort of public welfare should be a big concern to every tax payer whose hard earned tax dollars are being shuffled around in a system to offset low wages (Foodstamps, Mediicaid, Cast Assistance, Massive tax refunds well in excess of any actual tax paid) and increase profits for a large corporation.

I understand the whole unskilled labor argument and trying to better yourself to get a better paying job but shouldn't someone who is doing even the most unskilled job be able to live welfare free (even if its a very modest poor life.)

The reality is Disney needs their CM's and If everyone who was living below the poverty line moved elsewhere to find a better paying job Disney would have to close its gates as there wouldn't be enough people left to run it so obviously the Company and its workers both have the survival of the company in their own interests.

 

[jlewisinsyr]

But the thing is, because the jobs do not require a high level of skill set, they can be easily be replaced, there are a ready supply of individuals willing to work the positions.

Do I understand the welfare arguement, absolutely because welfare,e tc. are a burden on the general taxpayer, but free market must remain. Increasing minimum wage doesn't change it as it just resets the poverty line and the cycle continues.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

But the thing is, because the jobs do not require a high level of skill set, they can be easily be replaced, there are a ready supply of individuals willing to work the positions.

Do I understand the welfare arguement, absolutely because welfare,e tc. are a burden on the general taxpayer, but free market must remain. Increasing minimum wage doesn't change it as it just resets the poverty line and the cycle continues.

there are a few compelling arguments that indicate your first statement might not be the case:

The first...is that disney has not been able to increase their staffing levels at all since the last round of expansions and they are doing everything but import the chinese to attempt to decrease their staffing levels.

people always pine for a fifth park...i honestly don't believe its even possible. There are not enough warm bodies to do it.

They have effectively exhausted the florida labor pool...the best indication of that is that they will rehire practically anyone who was dismissed...for any reason that falls short of the criminal.

THAT is a fundamental shift in how the operation was designed. There is no argument here.

One counter argument is that "plenty of people would be glad to have that job"...while that is certainly true...every labor analyst ever born will tell you that nobody will relocate for a minimum wage/ poverty level job to statistical significance.
And benefits and other non-monetary compensation really have no effect on this.

So we are back to the central florida area...which...for the first time ever...suffered a decline in population in 2009 (along with the state as a whole...which shows just how badly the land robber barons and idiots signing loans without understanding them really screwed up) and will most likely show a bigger one for 2010.

There are many sides to this argument and it could go on for days or weeks...just thought i'd throw my two lincolns at it.

 

[skiingfast]

If anyone in the union would publicly state that Disney has enough money to pay better I'd like them to show the math that show the surplus of retained earnings that are generated by these union employees. Then they can consider what raise they earned. Of couse if they generated a loss they should accept a pay decrease. That would be fare.

 

[TheRustyScupper]

If anyone in the union would publicly state that Disney has enough money to pay better I'd like them to show the math that show the surplus of retained earnings that are generated by these union employees. Then they can consider what raise they earned. Of couse if they generated a loss they should accept a pay decrease. That would be fare.

1) Disney does not break out Retained Earnings for the parks and resorts.
2) However, per the 11/11/10 Fourth Quarter Earnings Report:
. . . 4th Qtr - Parks and Resorts Revenue $2,819,000,000
. . . 4th Qtr - Parks and Resorts Operating Income $316,000,000
. . . Annual - Parks and Resorts Revenue $10,761,000,000
. . . Annual - Parks and Resorts Operating Income $1,318,000,000
. . . Annual - Retained Corporate Earnings $34,327,000,000
4) Pretty hefty - as the cash cow for the Disney/ABC.
5) For the operating segment (parks) it seems like a raise is easily doable.
6) Since the profits & retained earnings are in the Billions.


Source: http://corporate.disney.go.com/investors/quarterly_earnings/2010_q4.pdf

 

[eliza61]

But the thing is, because the jobs do not require a high level of skill set, they can be easily be replaced, there are a ready supply of individuals willing to work the positions.

Do I understand the welfare arguement, absolutely because welfare,e tc. are a burden on the general taxpayer, but free market must remain. Increasing minimum wage doesn't change it as it just resets the poverty line and the cycle continues.

I think many companies are finding out this is not necessarily true.

First, replacing employees is not cheap. If the cost is any thing like what my company experiences every time we have to replace an employee, it's a pain. Between advertising, drug testing, general testing (now via online) and interviewing we now try to either retain employees or contract out the process (which comes at a cost)

This next one may only applyto your front line cm's. but a ready supply may not be the same as a "good supply". we see evidence of this from the complaints of posters who experience those less than magical cm's. More and more reports of "salty" cm's or basically "cm's' who simply don't care. I've run across one or two who pretty much look like they are just passing time until it's time to clock out. I often wonder how much of that 'attitude" is effected by the fact that you are in a hard job (and working with the public is no picnic) for non liveable wages.

 

[skiingfast]

1) Disney does not break out Retained Earnings for the parks and resorts.
2) However, per the 11/11/10 Fourth Quarter Earnings Report:
. . . 4th Qtr - Parks and Resorts Revenue $2,819,000,000
. . . 4th Qtr - Parks and Resorts Operating Income $316,000,000
. . . Annual - Parks and Resorts Revenue $10,761,000,000
. . . Annual - Parks and Resorts Operating Income $1,318,000,000
. . . Annual - Retained Corporate Earnings $34,327,000,000
4) Pretty hefty - as the cash cow for the Disney/ABC.
5) For the operating segment (parks) it seems like a raise is easily doable.
6) Since the profits & retained earnings are in the Billions.


Source: http://corporate.disney.go.com/investors/quarterly_earnings/2010_q4.pdf

Now break it down for only WDW.

 

[jlewisinsyr]

. . . Annual - Retained Corporate Earnings $34,327,000,000

You do know what retained earnings mean, right? Many older companies have retained earnings in the billions, it doesn't mean they have that money sitting around, rather it is just the combined effect of yearly profits minus losses and dividends paid.

 

[sandym718]

Interesting. The one article mentioned the average pay for that union was $10/hour. I have lots of thoughts, several of which have been mentioned above. I will say this, I made $10 an hour when I graduated from college (BA). In a job that required 24 hour on-call responsibilities and had a LOT more responsibility than these positions - I made important decisions on behalf of my consumers that affected every aspect of their lives. And to be clear - I'm not old, college wasn't that long ago for me!! So.... yes, money was tight. BUT, I knew when I got into Social Work, that high pay wasn't coming my way, LOL! Especially because I went the non-profit, not gov't route. You don't go into it for the money! Just as you wouldn't work in the jobs mentioned, at Disney World , for the money.

And, another big point... I only had myself to support on that wage, and I often had a 2nd part-time job (retail, swim teacher, etc) to supplement. I was able to do it without a problem, though there certainly weren't a lot of splurges! There's a real problem in this country of reproducing without the means to care for those offspring.

And just some information, food for thought - a single person (household of 1) is NOT considered to be below poverty level with an income of $10/hour (full time). Neither would a single person making $8/hour, again full-time (the rate mentioned in the other article). Not even ver close, in either regard, actually. It would require a family of 3 at $8/hour and a family of 4 at $10/hour.

Minimum wage is $7.25. A family of 2 is still above actual poverty level at that wage (again, full time), though they would qualify for food stamps (at least here in Ohio). Even at minimum wage, poverty level is not reached until the household numbers 3. And of course, this would mean just ONE, sole income for the household. So either single parent or someone is not working/bringing in any other income (SSDI, etc).

Just some thoughts. I wanted to add this info because of a post above that said even the most unskilled worker should be able to live welfare free. I agree with that. And they CAN based on what our federal government has decided constitutes poverty. They just can't do it AND have a few kids.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

To say that WDW is not at this point mostly to garner profits to support stock price and their other misguided multimedia endeavours is really detached from the truth (i'm paraphrasing a little here...but i know some yahoo is gonna start talking about "magic" and "walt" here soon)

And to say (or suggest or imply)that the WDW complex doesn't generate enough profit to provide substantial raises to its employees and doing so while only cutting into profit that is directed elsewhere in disney's portfolio is also completely false.

I see where some of this is going - some of these "yeah..but you can't prove what the numbers REALLY say"

come on...if you are trying to bring that argument in...you simply just aren't accepting the walt disney company for what it is...

some of us...myself included...are often too harsh or critical. but this is not something you can defend them on to any credibility.

The Walt Disney Company pays as few employees as possible as little as possible in an attempt to make as much profit at the Walt Disney World Resort that is directed significantly to other business units.

I don't have 1000 accountants working for me like they do...but even so you can read an annual report with a calculator and get a decent picture of the truth behind the numbers. Start with the 3.5 billion off merchandise at U.S. parks alone last year and see how much more that is than all their employee cost combined for starters (if you divide that number by $25,000 - which is a reasonable cost for the average employee at WDW - it would buy you 140,000 nametags)

The Scupp is absolutely right here and we all know it...so let's not try to play devil's advocate for the sake of it. That is the truth.

 

[skiingfast]

I don't have 1000 accountants working for me like they do...but even so you can read an annual report with a calculator and get a decent picture of the truth behind the numbers. Start with the 3.5 billion off merchandise at U.S. parks alone last year and see how much more that is than all their employee cost combined for starters (if you divide that number by $25,000 - which is a reasonable cost for the average employee at WDW - it would buy you 140,000 nametags)

$3.5B of merchandise? That was all sold in WDW? Really? What about WalMart? Doesn't disney sell a little of it there?

Unions who want raises are alarmists. They shout out numbers which sound big but in actuality don't represent facts that support thier argument. It happens all the time not just around Orlando.

 

[TheRustyScupper]

1) I really need to step in here a little, I am a retired CEO of a $1.25Billion corporation
2) I know what companies can and cannot give to employees.
3) In this case, WDW needs more concern for their employees.
4) Their medical insurance is VERY good.
5) Their hourly pay and retirement benefits are ugly.
6) Disney (USA) Parks & Resorts have approx 73,000 employees.
7) With Disney's income, they can afford better wages.
. . . when viewed, the pay ranges do not seem terrible
. . . low starting pay, but a decent top end rate
. . . BUT
. . . it's physically impossible for hires since 1998 to get to top-of-grade
. . . TRUE
. . . I know, since I worked for a company with the same pay formula
. . . I know couples who work at WDW and get food stamps
. . . I know several couples who get Federal subsidized housing
. . . pitiful
8) In companies I ran expected hard work, but paid well for it
9) There is no reason, other than Greed, to not pay better wages at WDW.
10) They have cut or cut-out pgrograms
. . . hourly employee training has been cut by over 50%
. . . manager trainging has been decimated
. . . they no longer follow the "The Disney Way" textbooks and workbooks
. . . the Continuous Improvement Program has been discontued

NOTE: As an example of greed and stupidity, in 2004 WDW disbanded their Continuous Improvement Program. A thing that most companies would give their eye teeth to operate. So, today, Disney does not take suggestions from employees (BY PRINTED COMPANY POLICY), and therefore things do not get improved or cost-reduced. Pitiful.

 

[schmitty]

If anyone in the union would publicly state that Disney has enough money to pay better I'd like them to show the math that show the surplus of retained earnings that are generated by these union employees. Then they can consider what raise they earned. Of couse if they generated a loss they should accept a pay decrease. That would be fare.

Show me the numbers that say WDW can not increase pay to its employees.

 

[eliza61]

Interesting. The one article mentioned the average pay for that union was $10/hour. I have lots of thoughts, several of which have been mentioned above. I will say this, I made $10 an hour when I graduated from college (BA). In a job that required 24 hour on-call responsibilities and had a LOT more responsibility than these positions - I made important decisions on behalf of my consumers that affected every aspect of their lives. And to be clear - I'm not old, college wasn't that long ago for me!! So.... yes, money was tight. BUT, I knew when I got into Social Work, that high pay wasn't coming my way, LOL! Especially because I went the non-profit, not gov't route. You don't go into it for the money! Just as you wouldn't work in the jobs mentioned, at Disney World , for the money.

And just some information, food for thought - a single person (household of 1) is NOT considered to be below poverty level with an income of $10/hour (full time). Neither would a single person making $8/hour, again full-time (the rate mentioned in the other article). Not even ver close, in either regard, actually. It would require a family of 3 at $8/hour and a family of 4 at $10/hour.


Just some thoughts. I wanted to add this info because of a post above that said even the most unskilled worker should be able to live welfare free. I agree with that. And they CAN based on what our federal government has decided constitutes poverty. They just can't do it AND have a few kids.

I gotta move to Ohio then. The average rent in Orlando Florida is $725.00 month ( according to the city statistics, I did do an own line search and found a few studios for $500 bucks) so a person making 10 bucks an hour, let's see 10X40 hours=400 bucks a week X4 weeks is 1600 bucks "pre tax". If they are in a 15% tax bracket decrease that by 240 bucks a month so they may come home with ~1400. Now already 50% of that is going to rent (on average), so on 610 bucks they now have to pay utilites, transportation, food and any incidentals.


Whew, I can't imagine trying to live off of 500 bucks a month left over. that isn't living, thats a recipe for endless poverty.

 

[sandym718]

I gotta move to Ohio then. The average rent in Orlando Florida is $725.00 month ( according to the city statistics, I did do an own line search and found a few studios for $500 bucks) so a person making 10 bucks an hour, let's see 10X40 hours=400 bucks a week X4 weeks is 1600 bucks "pre tax". If they are in a 15% tax bracket decrease that by 240 bucks a month so they may come home with ~1400. Now already 50% of that is going to rent (on average), so on 610 bucks they now have to pay utilites, transportation, food and any incidentals.


Whew, I can't imagine trying to live off of 500 bucks a month left over. that isn't living, thats a recipe for endless poverty.

I don't disagree with you - I just stated what the levels our government has set as poverty levels. A single individual making $10/hour is at almost Double the Federal poverty levels. As I also stated -that's what I made out of college. and no, it wasn't great living, and I can't imagine it would be for anyone. BUT, and this is KEY, People have CHOICES. A person is not Forced to work for Disney, Not forced to work for $10/hour (though without education/skills, etc. could be harder to find better), not forced to work just 1 job and not forced to live alone! Options, options....take a second job, get a roommate, etc. I did BOTH of those things when I made $10/hour. (Oh, and yes, cost of living is lower here, but you're probably still talking at LEAST $600/month for something decent).

I just wanted to point out that I wasn't saying it was good living on $10/hour - certainly not. But the fact remains, a single individual at that pay level would not be eligible for MOST of the programs we think of as Welfare(food stamps, medicaid, cash assistance). There are other programs they could be eligible for though - such as LI-HEAP here in Ohio, some food pantries, maybe a few others. They would barely qualify for those ($10.42/hour)

Oh, and I think your calculations could be even worse - if they have to pay health insurance out of their checks?? Not sure if Disney employees have to.

 

[schmitty]

I don't disagree with you - I just stated what the levels our government has set as poverty levels. A single individual making $10/hour is at almost Double the Federal poverty levels. As I also stated -that's what I made out of college. and no, it wasn't great living, and I can't imagine it would be for anyone. BUT, and this is KEY, People have CHOICES. A person is not Forced to work for Disney, Not forced to work for $10/hour (though without education/skills, etc. could be harder to find better), not forced to work just 1 job and not forced to live alone! Options, options....take a second job, get a roommate, etc. I did BOTH of those things when I made $10/hour. (Oh, and yes, cost of living is lower here, but you're probably still talking at LEAST $600/month for something decent).

I just wanted to point out that I wasn't saying it was good living on $10/hour - certainly not. But the fact remains, a single individual at that pay level would not be eligible for MOST of the programs we think of as Welfare(food stamps, medicaid, cash assistance). There are other programs they could be eligible for though - such as LI-HEAP here in Ohio, some food pantries, maybe a few others. They would barely qualify for those ($10.42/hour)

Oh, and I think your calculations could be even worse - if they have to pay health insurance out of their checks?? Not sure if Disney employees have to.

Youre whole argument is pretty irrelevant, most Disney employees are not 22 year olds fresh out of college, they are in fact families with kids. If you want to talk about living with other people to help with the bills, 8 people living in a 2 bed room apartment sounds great. Disney makes you work really odd hours that make having a second job very difficult.
I have a choice to kill myself everyday, that doesn't make it a realistic choice for me. Disney is the number 1 employer in central Florida and in an economy like this, you won't be leaving Disney to try to find work somewhere else. Seriously get real, try to do what you did just out of college now with your kids. That is the reality for most Disney employees.

 

[sandym718]

Youre whole argument is pretty irrelevant, most Disney employees are not 22 year olds fresh out of college, they are in fact families with kids. If you want to talk about living with other people to help with the bills, 8 people living in a 2 bed room apartment sounds great. Disney makes you work really odd hours that make having a second job very difficult.
I have a choice to kill myself everyday, that doesn't make it a realistic choice for me. Disney is the number 1 employer in central Florida and in an economy like this, you won't be leaving Disney to try to find work somewhere else. Seriously get real, try to do what you did just out of college now with your kids. That is the reality for most Disney employees.

Ay, there's the rub - I did not and would not have kids on what I made just out of college. Personal responsibility is key. And families with kids SHOULD have another income - whether the other parent is in the home or not, be it employment or child support. We all know that doesn't always happen - but then again it's not Disney's fault if deadbeat parents don't pay up. I'm just wondering, and I honestly want to know, what do you think would be a fair houly wage for a Disney employee (in the categories represented by this union)? To me, $10 per hour, on average, sounds fairly reasonable, maybe low if it's impossible, with seniority to go much higher than that. Do you feel minimum wage should be raised? Because the scenario you present is definitely not unique to Disney employees. It seems it would be pretty common for unskilled workers, with families, in almost any job - retail, for example, landscape laborers, customer service, etc.

 

[Oglet]

Youre whole argument is pretty irrelevant, most Disney employees are not 22 year olds fresh out of college, they are in fact families with kids. If you want to talk about living with other people to help with the bills, 8 people living in a 2 bed room apartment sounds great. Disney makes you work really odd hours that make having a second job very difficult.
I have a choice to kill myself everyday, that doesn't make it a realistic choice for me. Disney is the number 1 employer in central Florida and in an economy like this, you won't be leaving Disney to try to find work somewhere else. Seriously get real, try to do what you did just out of college now with your kids. That is the reality for most Disney employees.

Very well said.

It's common knowledge around Disney that anyone who has been with the company for a number of years and is on the higher end of the pay scale needs to watch their back.

Look at the recent contract negotiations, Disney is dangling a $550 carrot out there in the form of a bonus in exchange of a 25 cent pay raise. It's obvious that they are doing this because they know workers are desperate, christmas is almost here and bills need paid. $550 sounds great until you really think about it. Your giving up 25 cents and in exchange you will get a fraction of the $550, If you were to stay with the company 10 years working 40 hours a week your giving away over $5000 in lost wages and the company know this.

Have you ever noticed the ever increasing number of college kids working at Disney? It's not because Disney are just wanting to help kids out with work experience its because its a huge cash cow for them, they charge them rent, pay them even less than regular CM's, they have no union protection and can be terminated at any time and most of them put the majority of their money back into the parks.

When FT Cast Members leave a department they are not being replaced with new FT jobs, they are being replaced by CP's for the most part, just ask anyone who knows anything about department staffing and labor at Disney.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

$3.5B of merchandise? That was all sold in WDW? Really? What about WalMart? Doesn't disney sell a little of it there?

Unions who want raises are alarmists. They shout out numbers which sound big but in actuality don't represent facts that support thier argument. It happens all the time not just around Orlando.

I already had this argument with somebody up on the koolaid a few months ago.

if you read the 2010 annual report...in amongst the tables that repeated and reformatted mostly the same data about 100 times...there was a reported revenue of roughly3.5 billion dollars in 2009 in merchandise, food and beverage at the US PARKS...so yeah...that is wdw as the goal scorer with assists by Disneyland and California Adventure.

The merchandising numbers at walmart undoubtedly dwarf those...

so here's the thing...you just need to take a deep breath, sit down if you need to...and accept WDW as the cash cow it is. So yeah...that makes them look like slave drivers to keep the thing going...just like every exploitive company in todays world. And make no mistake...is it the new definition of exploitive.

At one time, WDW alone accounted for 30% of the Walt Disney Company's operation income....and think at just how few of the world's population gets anywhere near it in a year...

Lots of money pumping through that place. I can only tell you that a resort i worked at had room revenue alone that averaged about $265,000 per night...based on an average occupancy of 93.5% at the time. so just there you had revenue of about 100 million a year in one of twenty locations at the time....so that would be 2 billion in revenue per year if that were the average in just rooms. 2 billion dollars would pay the entire WDW staff and management with cash to spare each year.
Most of room revenue is tied up in overhead...so there's not alot of profit there....but that doesn't take into account one ticket, hamburger, coke, mickey plush, or tshirt sold...and that is where the real money is made.

It just is the way it is...if you cannot effectively judge how they pay their employees until you understand just how much cash is in Scrooge McDuck's WDW money bin. To do so is unfair.

And for the record...anti-"unionists" believe that policies that favor the ultra rich (like "tax cuts" and low wages for the majority) are actually good for them...when the reality is that they push the gap between themselves and the powerful even wider and make them have smaller and smaller value in an economy that has become completely ruthless. and one day the lemmings will hit the sea with out a boat....but the lemming is honestly dumb enough to be fooled as he jumps.

I'm harsh...i know...but there is the truth for the taking. And to be honest...people as a whole really don't take the time to find out what they're doing when they go and drop 10K there on a week. It leads to lots of cash and they just want to think that the employees are being taken care and wipe it from their minds. but that is either BARELY the case or not at all...and there's no way to put lipstick on that pig. And it wasn't always that way...so you can't use that as an excuse either