Disney parks now requiring immunization record for admittance?

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If immunizations work, then your vaccinations protect you so your statment about being placed in danger is illogical. If they don't protect you, then your statment about forcing others to get something that doesn't work is illogical.

I don't think anyone has ever said that immunizations are 100% effective, thus the 'herd immunity' statement. With measles the numbers that are being regurgitated are that the first dose means 95% effectiveness and a second dose takes care of MOST of the remaining 5%. I'm quoting from here: http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd-vac/measles/faqs-dis-vac-risks.htm . I DID go into Disneyland in mid January banking on my immunization from the mid 80s being effective. Since the recommendation at the time was one dose I was careful to monitor myself afterwards for any spots in my mouth or signs of the disease (not that I wouldn't have even if I had two doses), but thankfully I'm clear. Several others in my office visited in December - we were ALL immunized, and no measles followed us home (uahahahahaaaaaaa /ghost host).

But, we all consider ourselves lucky since again, it is NOT 100% effective. Its most effective if the people around you all have that glorious 95% immunity to severely slow or stop the spread in its tracks. If you CHOOSE not to have it, those who can't choose are more likely to catch it from you. If you aren't immunized and get close to an infected person you are 90% likely to catch it though (source: http://www.cdc.gov/measles/about/transmission.html) so that means I go from 90% likely to catch it to 95% unlikely to catch it with one dose. I like those odds.
 
Yall are all overlooking the obvious. Fewer people immunized means higher rates of sickness, which means increased healthcare costs and increased workdays missed equaling lower wages. Sick and broke people don't go on vacation which means lowered rates of attendance at the parks so they aren't as busy and more perks like free dining, etc to increase booking by those that aren't sick or broke. I'm all for fewer immunizations! :rolleyes:
 
As a doctor you can see why less and less people are getting vaccinated. Because at some point we just throw up our hands because we are talking to a brick wall who has already done all the research they want to support their argument and it doesn't matter if it started on gomersrus if it's on the Internet it must be true right??? And then you can look at numbers on the cdc and spin them any way you want to. I try hard for the kids sake but in the end the laws currently are letting parents make any decision they want. Make kids not allowed to go to school and make them home school their kids without a real exemption and I bet those numbers change.
 
And you responded with an article. Articles involve interpretation. I go straight to the actual numbers without interpretation. I'll have to look up the rest, but as far as I remember, immunization for diphtheria started in the 1920s and it was not "eradicated" until some 80 years later. That would seem to be a pretty ineffective vaccine. I'll pull up the actual numbers tonight, free of interpretation.

The problem with just straight numbers is that they need interpretation to come to a proper conclusion. By just looking straight at numbers it's possible to make your own correlation as to what the cause is of said results. It's like looking at the global temperature and the number of pirates in the world. As Pirates have gone down, global temperature has gone up. Thus one could conclude that the lack of pirates causes global warming. Just because the numbers seem to support your argument, it needs qualified interpretations and studies to show how those numbers actually apply to the situation.

Correlation does not equal causation.

Herd immunity FTW.
 

Ok, I am biting.
I started researching vaccines in great depth with the birth of my first daughter 8 years ago. There is so much wrong when it comes to the subject of vaccines, it is hard to know where to start. Here are some (very well-researched) facts for you:
1) The current US vaccine schedule has never been tested for safety. Vaccines are "tested" only individually, not in combination with others. (And when these safety tests are conducted, the "placebo" is usually an aluminum adjuvant--a potent neurotoxin. Also, the period of reporting is limited to a few days, maybe a couple of weeks at most.) So, when your doctor tells you it is perfectly safe to give your 2-month old infant 6 vaccines at once, he/she is misleading you. We simply do not know if it is safe because that study hasn't been done. And there have been no long-term safety studies on vaccines at all. Why not?
2) Vaccines absolutely CAN cause autism, and the federal vaccine court has been quietly awarding monetary damages to families so affected since the 1990's. As an attorney, I find it fascinating that these cases exist, and yet public health officials can say with a straight face on the evening news that vaccines absolutely do not cause autism. Also, what happened to journalistic integrity? These stories amount to nothing more than propaganda, and an attempt to sway public opinion. (As a side note, everyone should go online and read some personal accounts of families dealing with regressive autism as the result of vaccination--there are tens of thousands of such stories. This is the only way to achieve real informed consent, because most doctors will never admit to the possible negative effects of vaccines.)
3) The impressive decline in disease mortality over the first half of the past century was the result of improved living conditions (clean drinking water and food, modern sewer systems). There are some excellent CDC graphs depicting the decline in disease mortality well before the introduction of vaccines, and no, you do not need to be a doctor to understand them. This is the reason poor populations in third world countries are still dying in great numbers from these diseases. They don't need more shots--they need clean drinking water and better nutrition.
4) Herd immunity is a term that applies to populations with natural immunity to disease. Vaccines are a poor substitute for natural immunity, and the press has thrown this term around so much that people are confused and think it applies to vaccines. It doesn't, and vaccines have never been scientifically proven to work that way.
5) There has never been a study comparing the health outcomes of vaccinated and unvaccinated populations. You should be asking why.
6) The media frenzy over a few measles cases defies common sense. Yes, measles is highly contagious, but no, it is not highly dangerous to the US population. Not so long ago, it was a very common childhood illness that wasn't cause for concern. Even for babies. Why don't we focus on the 20,000+ deaths each year from hospital acquired infections? 100 cases of non-fatal measles is not news. But you should be asking why it is.
7) Parents--you simply cannot rely on a doctor's beliefs to make up your mind on this issue. Doctors spend very little time in medical school learning about vaccinations. And most of what they learn is limited to conclusions like: Vaccines saved the world, and no one suffers reactions to them. You need to recognize that there have been many instances in the not-too-far past when the medical establishment was wrong about the safety and effectiveness of common treatments. Example: It used to be that pregnant women had x-rays of their babies in utero (1950's). We now know how dangerous this is. Another example: Some common morning sickness medications used in the same timeframe caused horrific and well-documented birth defects, as those medications were not adequately tested before widespread use. Bottom line, you NEED to research these issues yourselves. You do not need to be an MD to be able to read, to reason, and to come to your own conclusions. You just need to be curious enough to look into it for yourself. Believe me, it is a fascinating and terrible read.
8) For those of you calling for mandatory vaccinations: When you no longer have the deciding vote about whether a foreign substance is injected into your body (whatever it may be), that would be the point when you are no longer free. Period.
9) For those you engaging in name calling and finger-pointing: You need to go back and read Dr. Seuss' "The Sneeches" (with stars upon thars).
 
Ok, I am biting.
I started researching vaccines in great depth with the birth of my first daughter 8 years ago. There is so much wrong when it comes to the subject of vaccines, it is hard to know where to start. Here are some (very well-researched) facts for you:
1) The current US vaccine schedule has never been tested for safety. Vaccines are "tested" only individually, not in combination with others. (And when these safety tests are conducted, the "placebo" is usually an aluminum adjuvant--a potent neurotoxin. Also, the period of reporting is limited to a few days, maybe a couple of weeks at most.) So, when your doctor tells you it is perfectly safe to give your 2-month old infant 6 vaccines at once, he/she is misleading you. We simply do not know if it is safe because that study hasn't been done. And there have been no long-term safety studies on vaccines at all. Why not?
2) Vaccines absolutely CAN cause autism, and the federal vaccine court has been quietly awarding monetary damages to families so affected since the 1990's. As an attorney, I find it fascinating that these cases exist, and yet public health officials can say with a straight face on the evening news that vaccines absolutely do not cause autism. Also, what happened to journalistic integrity? These stories amount to nothing more than propaganda, and an attempt to sway public opinion. (As a side note, everyone should go online and read some personal accounts of families dealing with regressive autism as the result of vaccination--there are tens of thousands of such stories. This is the only way to achieve real informed consent, because most doctors will never admit to the possible negative effects of vaccines.)
3) The impressive decline in disease mortality over the first half of the past century was the result of improved living conditions (clean drinking water and food, modern sewer systems). There are some excellent CDC graphs depicting the decline in disease mortality well before the introduction of vaccines, and no, you do not need to be a doctor to understand them. This is the reason poor populations in third world countries are still dying in great numbers from these diseases. They don't need more shots--they need clean drinking water and better nutrition.
4) Herd immunity is a term that applies to populations with natural immunity to disease. Vaccines are a poor substitute for natural immunity, and the press has thrown this term around so much that people are confused and think it applies to vaccines. It doesn't, and vaccines have never been scientifically proven to work that way.
5) There has never been a study comparing the health outcomes of vaccinated and unvaccinated populations. You should be asking why.
6) The media frenzy over a few measles cases defies common sense. Yes, measles is highly contagious, but no, it is not highly dangerous to the US population. Not so long ago, it was a very common childhood illness that wasn't cause for concern. Even for babies. Why don't we focus on the 20,000+ deaths each year from hospital acquired infections? 100 cases of non-fatal measles is not news. But you should be asking why it is.
7) Parents--you simply cannot rely on a doctor's beliefs to make up your mind on this issue. Doctors spend very little time in medical school learning about vaccinations. And most of what they learn is limited to conclusions like: Vaccines saved the world, and no one suffers reactions to them. You need to recognize that there have been many instances in the not-too-far past when the medical establishment was wrong about the safety and effectiveness of common treatments. Example: It used to be that pregnant women had x-rays of their babies in utero (1950's). We now know how dangerous this is. Another example: Some common morning sickness medications used in the same timeframe caused horrific and well-documented birth defects, as those medications were not adequately tested before widespread use. Bottom line, you NEED to research these issues yourselves. You do not need to be an MD to be able to read, to reason, and to come to your own conclusions. You just need to be curious enough to look into it for yourself. Believe me, it is a fascinating and terrible read.
8) For those of you calling for mandatory vaccinations: When you no longer have the deciding vote about whether a foreign substance is injected into your body (whatever it may be), that would be the point when you are no longer free. Period.
9) For those you engaging in name calling and finger-pointing: You need to go back and read Dr. Seuss' "The Sneeches" (with stars upon thars).

Thank you, this is so very well stated!
 
Bottom line, you NEED to research these issues yourselves. You do not need to be an MD to be able to read, to reason, and to come to your own conclusions. You just need to be curious enough to look into it for yourself. Believe me, it is a fascinating and terrible read.
Really? The rest of your post makes me have some problems with that logic...

So if what you're saying is true, where's the proof? Where's the scientists backing up your claim? Where's the report coming from experts with years of expierience corroborating your stories?

They don't exist.

Government, institutions, and independent researchers are not behind you.

As for vaccines causing autism? We seriously can't still be having this argument...

The only point I agree with is 8. We should however, educate people about their benefits to the best of our abilities. Frankly I'm starting to lose my resolve on this issue with the anti vaccine crowd growing.

I could go point by point, but I know there's no way I could ever sway you. Have fun with measles...
 
Ok, I am biting.
I started researching vaccines in great depth with the birth of my first daughter 8 years ago. There is so much wrong when it comes to the subject of vaccines, it is hard to know where to start. Here are some (very well-researched) facts for you:
1) The current US vaccine schedule has never been tested for safety. Vaccines are "tested" only individually, not in combination with others. (And when these safety tests are conducted, the "placebo" is usually an aluminum adjuvant--a potent neurotoxin. Also, the period of reporting is limited to a few days, maybe a couple of weeks at most.) So, when your doctor tells you it is perfectly safe to give your 2-month old infant 6 vaccines at once, he/she is misleading you. We simply do not know if it is safe because that study hasn't been done. And there have been no long-term safety studies on vaccines at all. Why not?
2) Vaccines absolutely CAN cause autism, and the federal vaccine court has been quietly awarding monetary damages to families so affected since the 1990's. As an attorney, I find it fascinating that these cases exist, and yet public health officials can say with a straight face on the evening news that vaccines absolutely do not cause autism. Also, what happened to journalistic integrity? These stories amount to nothing more than propaganda, and an attempt to sway public opinion. (As a side note, everyone should go online and read some personal accounts of families dealing with regressive autism as the result of vaccination--there are tens of thousands of such stories. This is the only way to achieve real informed consent, because most doctors will never admit to the possible negative effects of vaccines.)
3) The impressive decline in disease mortality over the first half of the past century was the result of improved living conditions (clean drinking water and food, modern sewer systems). There are some excellent CDC graphs depicting the decline in disease mortality well before the introduction of vaccines, and no, you do not need to be a doctor to understand them. This is the reason poor populations in third world countries are still dying in great numbers from these diseases. They don't need more shots--they need clean drinking water and better nutrition.
4) Herd immunity is a term that applies to populations with natural immunity to disease. Vaccines are a poor substitute for natural immunity, and the press has thrown this term around so much that people are confused and think it applies to vaccines. It doesn't, and vaccines have never been scientifically proven to work that way.
5) There has never been a study comparing the health outcomes of vaccinated and unvaccinated populations. You should be asking why.
6) The media frenzy over a few measles cases defies common sense. Yes, measles is highly contagious, but no, it is not highly dangerous to the US population. Not so long ago, it was a very common childhood illness that wasn't cause for concern. Even for babies. Why don't we focus on the 20,000+ deaths each year from hospital acquired infections? 100 cases of non-fatal measles is not news. But you should be asking why it is.
7) Parents--you simply cannot rely on a doctor's beliefs to make up your mind on this issue. Doctors spend very little time in medical school learning about vaccinations. And most of what they learn is limited to conclusions like: Vaccines saved the world, and no one suffers reactions to them. You need to recognize that there have been many instances in the not-too-far past when the medical establishment was wrong about the safety and effectiveness of common treatments. Example: It used to be that pregnant women had x-rays of their babies in utero (1950's). We now know how dangerous this is. Another example: Some common morning sickness medications used in the same timeframe caused horrific and well-documented birth defects, as those medications were not adequately tested before widespread use. Bottom line, you NEED to research these issues yourselves. You do not need to be an MD to be able to read, to reason, and to come to your own conclusions. You just need to be curious enough to look into it for yourself. Believe me, it is a fascinating and terrible read.
8) For those of you calling for mandatory vaccinations: When you no longer have the deciding vote about whether a foreign substance is injected into your body (whatever it may be), that would be the point when you are no longer free. Period.
9) For those you engaging in name calling and finger-pointing: You need to go back and read Dr. Seuss' "The Sneeches" (with stars upon thars).

Could you provide us with a source? Even just one? So much of what you wrote is simply factually inaccurate, but it would help us explain why it's wrong and help provide you with actual, scientific facts, if you could provide us with at least one place where you get your information.
Thanks!
 
Could you provide us with a source? Even just one? So much of what you wrote is simply factually inaccurate, but it would help us explain why it's wrong and help provide you with actual, scientific facts, if you could provide us with at least one place where you get your information.
Thanks!


Here is a link to JamesthePeach item #2: http://www.injurylawyerblog.center/...ents-for-injuries-caused-by-vaccinations.html

Here is a link to item #3 about the decline of infectious disease mortality: http://jama.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=768249
 
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No matter which side you fall on with regards to vaccines, many children do "Make a Wish" trips to Disney World and Disneyland and they are at high risk. Measles could be deadly to most of them.

Anti-vaxers don't care who they kill with their arrogance and stupidity. Too bad it is not their own children who will be the ones likely to die. Too bad their parents loved them enough to get them vaccinated. If they hadn't, more of them would be sterile and less of a danger to others.
 
Here is a link to JamesthePeach item #2: http://www.injurylawyerblog.center/...ents-for-injuries-caused-by-vaccinations.html

Here is a link to item #3 about the decline of infectious disease mortality: http://jama.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=768249


The first one, they were being compensated for the encephalitis, which is a rare complication to the MMR vaccine. http://www.hrsa.gov/vaccinecompensation/adverseeffects.pdf

Your second link is an overall trend of ALL infectious disease mortality. It does not break down ones that have vaccines and ones that don't.

http://www.software3d.com/Home/Vax/Graphs.php
 
I'm not worried about my children who have been vaccinated. I'm worried about the infants and other children who can't be vaccinated due to allergies or other health issues. Their safety relies on "herd immunity." The reason you think your childern have little chance of being exposed to these diseases is because so many of us have been immunized. If enough people stop getting imunized, these diseases come back. In 2000, measles was basically eradicated in the US.

I'm worried about my vaccinated kids, at least one of them. My youngest dd had a moderate reaction to a vaccine and after that her doctor gave her a dose of Tylenol before her vaccinations, but she warned us that the Tylenol might suppress immune response. So it's possible that my daughter didn't develop a good immunity to measles, plus, she hasn't had her second round of mmr yet. She's healthy, so she would probably survive the measles unscathed, but we follow the doctor recommended shot schedule so that our kids don't have to endure these diseases. My mother had measles when she was 7 years old and she remembers it clearly, she has described it as weeks of hell, when her whole body hurt terribly and she prayed to God to die. That's not something that I want my kids to experience, and I'm angry at the anti-vaxers for putting my kids at risk with their stupid, selfish choices.

I hope that something good comes out of this epidemic, I hope that we can get the laws changed to require immunization for attendance in public school, no exemptions. Screw personal freedoms--when your own actions endanger others you should lose your right to take those actions.
 
I'm worried about my vaccinated kids, at least one of them. My youngest dd had a moderate reaction to a vaccine and after that her doctor gave her a dose of Tylenol before her vaccinations, but she warned us that the Tylenol might suppress immune response. So it's possible that my daughter didn't develop a good immunity to measles, plus, she hasn't had her second round of mmr yet. She's healthy, so she would probably survive the measles unscathed, but we follow the doctor recommended shot schedule so that our kids don't have to endure these diseases. My mother had measles when she was 7 years old and she remembers it clearly, she has described it as weeks of hell, when her whole body hurt terribly and she prayed to God to die. That's not something that I want my kids to experience, and I'm angry at the anti-vaxers for putting my kids at risk with their stupid, selfish choices.

I hope that something good comes out of this epidemic, I hope that we can get the laws changed to require immunization for attendance in public school, no exemptions. Screw personal freedoms--when your own actions endanger others you should lose your right to take those actions.


I understand, I was speaking in regards to my childern who are old enough to have completed all their shots. However, I've heard of many people giving their kids Tylenol or Advil when getting vaccinated and never heard anything about it affecting the effectiveness of the vaccines.
 
I repeat .....
Forum join date + number of posts = do not respond!
But it's so hard when they post a novel of unsupported, illogical, factually inaccurate dribble.

And didn't you notice, he's a lawyer and everything? Afterall, I'm a healthcare professional that's been working at the #2 research medical center for the last 25 years, so that makes me an expert on law, right?

j
 
I, my boss is thinking if cancelling her tip and the subject line is her reason behind it. We leave in a little
Over a week to go to Disney world, and this article just doesn't sit right with me. But I can't find it being debunked on snopes either.

Http://www.gomerblog.com/2015/01/immunization-record/

So I turn to my favourite Disney know-it-alls

Is this true or false?

God I hope you were kidding. But if you are still going I have to cancel my trip due to a Nigerian Prince sending me $50,000.00
If you want my suite in Cinderella's Castle, just let me know. I will need a cashiers check, but I did pay extra for Tinkerbell to tuck the kids in.:tilt:
 
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Sigh. I hear dihydrogen monoxide (aka DHMO) is really dangerous too. If you get levels that are too high, it can easily cause death. Thousands of people a year die from DHMO inhalation. We should absolutely ban it. http://dhmo.org/

Or... you know... actually deal in scientific fact and not made up crap-science. Except for your paragraph about the flu, pretty much every single thing you wrote is false and factually inaccurate.

As they say, you're entitled to your own opinion, but not your own facts.

:jumping1: nuff said. Thank You!


"Where did you hear that? The internet and they can't put anything on the internet thats not true...

 
The problem with just straight numbers is that they need interpretation to come to a proper conclusion. By just looking straight at numbers it's possible to make your own correlation as to what the cause is of said results. It's like looking at the global temperature and the number of pirates in the world. As Pirates have gone down, global temperature has gone up. Thus one could conclude that the lack of pirates causes global warming. Just because the numbers seem to support your argument, it needs qualified interpretations and studies to show how those numbers actually apply to the situation.

Correlation does not equal causation.

Herd immunity FTW.

Saw Dr Gupta say that on CNN. I also saw him point out that (laymen terms and not an exact quote) but the potency of the vaccinations over the past 10 or 15 years has been reduced dramatically, while at the same time autism diagnosis have skyrocketed. So you could argue (and he was not) that immunizations helped prevent autism (if you use that correlation DOES equal causation). I use this just as an example that statistics can be used to strengthen your argument even if it is not accurate. Many diagnosis of autism are not found until after vaccination ages (depending on vaccination) and it the time frame happens to be when diagnosis are able to be detected. Again correlation does not equal causation. Cancer rates continue to grow as smoking decreases should we encourage smoking?

I am not making light of Autism or a parent wanting to protect their children, I get it. But by not vaccinating exposes others who may not be able to be vaccinated or of the proper age yet.

If you don't want to vaccinate your children there will be consequences. Should parents be put in jail if there child dies of measles? Should they be sued for all of their possessions if another person get sick because of them? Should they not be allowed in school? And as silly as the article that started this was should they be banned from public events? If States are quarantining Doctors and Nurses and military returning from Ebola infected countries do we need to quarantine families when they run a fever? I have to go back to the internet now....:rolleyes1
 
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