Disney letting the owners rent out thier points

[Muushka]

How is paying Disney $95 more dollars a good thing?

Well, I guess in terms of people who rent out points, no, it is not a good thing. But in terms of that $95 going back into the maintenance of the DVC, for those of us who don't rent, it would be a good thing.

Renters would just have to pay a little more to rent points. It is a bargain as it is for them.

 

[Sammie]

well obviously something has changed. I called today about booking a unit and its the first time I was specifically asked would I personally be staying in the unit. I told the CM yes, but why did it matter, and she said she was required to ask and if I said no, then she was required to ask if I was renting the unit.

 

[Dean]

And that I definitely agree with as long as they do not state the 20 ressie rule as one not subject to any exception such as the owners' ability to explain that he is not just doing rentals.

I think the issue was none in others name after you get to 20. But how do they get to 20? Does a split stay or room change count as multiple? And I'm sure they'll look at the case if it's an issue.

 

[dianeschlicht]

I think the issue was none in others name after you get to 20. But how do they get to 20? Does a split stay or room change count as multiple? And I'm sure they'll look at the case if it's an issue.

YEs, they were very vague about what constitutes 20 reservations. Lately, we have had two reservations for each trip, because we have been splitting our trips between AKV and OKW. Maybe it's not an issue, since we are always named on the reservations, but I would like to know how they really plan to track this.

 

[kerickson]

1. You cannot "transfer" points for value. Thus an express agreement to transfer points for a dollar amount per point is itself prohibited. The reason for this is that your "points" are deemed to have no monetary value in the official documents. They simply represent your real estate ownership interest in the property, which can be rented and does have value. To a certain extent this is just a matter of how you word the rental in any contract to do so.

Is this true? What about the 'Transfer' posts on the Rent/Transfer thread? Can someone please explain specifically how transfers are allowed or not allowed?

 

[crisi]

Disney could also make it non-competitive in other ways. They could, for instance, make it known that non-owners staying in DVC units got "bad" units and didn't get into them until after 4:00pm - prioritizing members (which as a member who uses her own points - I have to say isn't all bad). They could make DDP and ME a member perk or CRO benefit - you need to have your blue card to take advantage of these perks. Some of these things would push people over into the CRO category.

And the reason Disney would do this is because people renting DVC points are NOT paying CRO for their reservation. Disney profit on DVC at selling is substantial. But their ongoing profit is in renting rooms through CRO. They'd rather have you in Orlando than somewhere else. On property than off. Staying CRO than staying DVC. If CRO is having problems filling their rooms, they'll look at DVC rentals as competition - and do what they need to to make them non-competitive.

 

[Dean]

Disney could also make it non-competitive in other ways. They could, for instance, make it known that non-owners staying in DVC units got "bad" units and didn't get into them until after 4:00pm - prioritizing members (which as a member who uses her own points - I have to say isn't all bad). They could make DDP and ME a member perk or CRO benefit - you need to have your blue card to take advantage of these perks. Some of these things would push people over into the CRO category.

And the reason Disney would do this is because people renting DVC points are NOT paying CRO for their reservation. Disney profit on DVC at selling is substantial. But their ongoing profit is in renting rooms through CRO. They'd rather have you in Orlando than somewhere else. On property than off. Staying CRO than staying DVC. If CRO is having problems filling their rooms, they'll look at DVC rentals as competition - and do what they need to to make them non-competitive.

That's require DVC to have and admit they have bad units, I don't see that happen. As a rule, private renters from an owner in most systems are treated as an owner because they are seen as an extension of the owner. If they start to treat non owners differently when staying on the owners point, that would almost certainly pertain to all guests including immediate family.

 

[letsgodisney]

Then how can we explain all the Ebay listings for rent some guy actually wanted like $2500.00 for easter week which would be about $22 a point. It definitely was a business for this guy. Just makes me mad Oh well LOL

 

[drusba]

Is this true? What about the 'Transfer' posts on the Rent/Transfer thread? Can someone please explain specifically how transfers are allowed or not allowed?

Yes, there is a prohibition against transfering points for monetary value. It is obviously one rule generally ignored by most who do so, including on the rent/trade boards. Also, it may be mostly an issue of "legalese," meaning it may depend merely on how you word what you do in any written contract. Transfers for value are generally not much of a concern for Disney. Now that it has returned to the one transfer per use year rule, transfers are not the means used by commercial renters who may own points. Instead, they simply use their own points to make reservations in the other's (the renter's) name, which is not a "transfer" of points. Thus, transfers are going to be done by owners who don't usually rent but have points they are willing to part with on a one time in the use year basis.

The reason for the stated rule that there are to be no transfers for monetary rule is essentially two-fold. One, DVD has set up a system where you have a real estate interest that has value but your points are legally deemed to have no monetary value; they are simply symbols of what you do own. That is, of course, contrary to what members think and the reality of the market, but it is a legal point and Disney's stated prohibition legally prevents anyone from claiming against it that points themselves in fact have a monetary value (as opposed to the real estate interest you own). Two, the rule prevents Disney from ever getting caught in the middle involving a transfer for money that goes wrong. Neither the transferor owner nor the transferee owner can ever claim Disney did anything wrong and should pay money if the transfer was done incorrectly because its defense is that it cannot be liable for an act that was prohibited in the first place.

In other words, Disney to date has not taken action to enforce the no transfer for monetary value rule and has no real reason to do so. Also, one may easily be able to word any contract in a way that avoids the issue, although whether this would work is untested. Rather than expressly agreeing to transfer points for money, one could possibly just agree to transfer his right to use during the applicable use year (or one thereafter if the renter chooses to bank points after the transfer) that portion of his real estate interest in the property that is represented by a given amount of points. You transfer that right to use for a stated dollar value and then agree to complete the transaction by doing any act necessary for the renter to acquire that right including the transfer of points. Net effect: the contract gives monetary value to the right of use you are transfering not the points and thus possibly avoids any prohibition against the actual transfer of points for monetary value.

 

[Dean]

Then how can we explain all the Ebay listings for rent some guy actually wanted like $2500.00 for easter week which would be about $22 a point. It definitely was a business for this guy. Just makes me mad Oh well LOL

Cost per point doesn't translate to "commercial". If I rent, I want to get the most I can and anyone that doesn't is a fool or has an alternate reason such as renting to family and friends. I'd love to get $22 per point and if I though I could consistently when I did rent, you'd see me list at that price.

 

[bobbiwoz]

I have 22 complete vacations listed in 2008. I don't rent, but do switch resorts and invite family and friends often. When I bought, and read the papers I took commercial renting to be any renting, commerce...so I was stunned to learn that people do rent their reservations, points, whatever. Renting my points is not something I ever want to do.

Bobbi

 

[keishashadow]

I called last week to check availablity for a potential renter and CS told me "this is a recorded line. It is a violation of your lease to rent points". What gives?

i have never heard this message when calling

well obviously something has changed. I called today about booking a unit and its the first time I was specifically asked would I personally be staying in the unit. I told the CM yes, but why did it matter, and she said she was required to ask and if I said no, then she was required to ask if I was renting the unit.

seems as though they've been asking the names of guests for as long as i can remember, guess it circumvents being asked this Q directly along with the appropriate information for their records

i do recall last summer being told that i 'might' have an issue having my oldest DS take over a ressie there was a chance i wouldn't be using , as a result of me calling to question when we thought we'd have a change in our plans

so...any recent issues with those trying to change the name(s) on a confirmed ressie?

 

[66Tink]

Hello everyone. As someone who is renting points for the fist time from a DVC member, do I need to be worried that my ressie will be cancelled by Disney? I know this sounds stupid of me to ask, but reading this thread is making me a bit nervous. I have a contract from my DVC owner and the Vacation Club ressie from Disney with our name on it...I should be good to go in May right?

 

[jpolak]

I really don't know why they would care. Their job is to sell points and to make additional revenue from people who vacation at Disney.

A member renting their points doesn't change that. They still bought points and the renters are at Disney spending their money.

Historically, they only time Disney goes after someone is when they are taking money out of the Mouses pockets.

By renting you are taking money out of their pockets. If you rent that is one less guest paying cash to stay in a Disney resort. A renter is using points that have already been paid for. If you don't rent Disney gets both. I should add I really don't care, I'd rather have the money over Mickey.

 

[Deb & Bill]

Hello everyone. As someone who is renting points for the fist time from a DVC member, do I need to be worried that my ressie will be cancelled by Disney? I know this sounds stupid of me to ask, but reading this thread is making me a bit nervous. I have a contract from my DVC owner and the Vacation Club ressie from Disney with our name on it...I should be good to go in May right?

You can call the resort directly a few days before the start of your trip to make sure the reservation is still there.

 

[letsgodisney]

Cost per point doesn't translate to "commercial". If I rent, I want to get the most I can and anyone that doesn't is a fool or has an alternate reason such as renting to family and friends. I'd love to get $22 per point and if I though I could consistently when I did rent, you'd see me list at that price.

Well then I guess Ebay doesn't translate to "Commercial" if it quacks like a duck.... In my opinion selling different weeks on EBay with the same account different resorts to me sounds Commercial but maybe I'm wrong I don't know. I just didn't think it was right thats all......
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[Dean]

Well then I guess Ebay doesn't translate to "Commercial" if it quacks like a duck.... In my opinion selling different weeks on EBay with the same account different resorts to me sounds Commercial but maybe I'm wrong I don't know. I just didn't think it was right thats all......
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Mnay people sell one time or limited items on ebay. The question isn't whether renting is OK, the question is what constitutes commercial renting. PROFIT per se is not part of the equation. If I rent I want to get the most I can and anyone that doesn't either has an underlying reason to rent cheaper OR they are not very bright. You are looking at this emotionally I think. My guess is it bothers you if something you want is available for a rental but not for you to reserve. Not everyone is tied to DVC as much as some others are and many that were, their situations have changed. Sorry but that is what you bought into whether you knew it or not.

 

[Brian Noble]

I told the CM yes, but why did it matter, and she said she was required to ask and if I said no, then she was required to ask if I was renting the unit.

As the rules stand now, Members are required to identify renters, and differentiate them from guests. Members' guests are extended many of the minor Member perks (free internet, etc.) whereas renters are not.

Naturally, most people who rent do not identify their renters as such, to increase the value of the product they are renting. It is possible that Member Services is trying to encourage the Members who are renting to be a bit more forthcoming.

 

[dianeschlicht]

As the rules stand now, Members are required to identify renters, and differentiate them from guests. Members' guests are extended many of the minor Member perks (free internet, etc.) whereas renters are not.

Naturally, most people who rent do not identify their renters as such, to increase the value of the product they are renting. It is possible that Member Services is trying to encourage the Members who are renting to be a bit more forthcoming.

That's a good point. I don't rent either, and I have NEVER heard the statement from MS about renting being illegal. I don't really see how renting could be prevented, since most timeshares allow you to rent out your "time" when you can't take advantage of it yourself.

I would think renting out a LOT of "time"(points) would be a red flag of activity that is bordering on "commercial". As Dean said, there is no real definition of "commercial", so we all have to guess.

 

[Entropy]

I called last week to check availablity for a potential renter and CS told me "this is a recorded line. It is a violation of your lease to rent points". What gives?

What lease? You own the membership, you don't lease it. I would have asked to speak to a surpervisor because it's apparent that whomever you spoke to wasn't clear on the rules.