Disney insults us all yet again!

[TigerLaw]

I just got the confirmation docs for my oct. trip in the mail, and I have to tell everyone, I was beside myself when I read the contents. Specifically, there was a little insert promoting the character caravan. What KILLS me is that on it, it says the "we created CC and got rid of early entry because you, the public, wanted it!" story we all have been hearing for months now.

Folks, I can accept that the powers that be want to cut costs and thought that EE was an easy target. But what I can't take is the continual B.S. reasoning we get for the change! Has anyone ever met or heard of these magical people who told disney that they would rather have a few minutes of character-time at their resort than additional time at the parks? NO? THAT'S BECAUSE THESE PEOPLE DON'T EXIST! Now, I understand that the response can't be "we're cutting costs" but come on, don't continually lie to us! Anyone over the age of eight could figure out that the value of staying on site is diminished by this action!

sorry for the rant, but given I am paying for regular season rates, with no EE, no enights, reduced hours from previous Octobers (including last year, one month after 9-11) I can't take much more!

 

[WDWHound]

I was talking with a Disney rep on the phone the other day. I mentioned that I really missed EE. His response was that they have been receiving A LOT of complaints on this subject.

The whole idea that they did away with early entry because customers wanted them to is a joke.

 

[wdw4us2]

I believe they justify these statements by citing survey information.

If you are ever asked to participate in a survey when you enter or exit one of the Parks, pay close attention to how the questions are worded. It's very easy to be misled when you're excited about getting into the Park, or you've just had a lot of fun in the park.

I used to participate whenever they asked. Now, I only do so if I have time to really listen to what they're asking. You might be surprised if you do the same!

BTW, I am one of the frequent complainers about the elimination of EE. I email or write to them after we return home from our trips.

Lisa

 

[raidermatt]

How many times do we have to go through this?

They said not many guests used EE. STOP

They said many guests requested more character interaction. STOP (And, yes, I am 100% sure that some guests answered yes to this. I know I would have.) There was no need to mislead guests on this question. "Do you want more character interaction?" Do you really think there is nobody who would say yes?

They said they got rid of EE and added CC.

None of this is a lie. They did not say that the guests who used EE would prefer CC.

They spun them together, to avoid calling EE a cut, but who really gives a rat's behind? Ragging on the spin completely misses the true source of the problem, and detracts from discussion of the real issue, which is the cancellation of EE.

CC IS enjoyed by a number of guests. Its existence does not preclude EE from coming back, nor did it cause EE to go away in the first place.

I am NOT saying that the cancellation of EE was a good decision. But take the wording of the announcement at face value and don't worry about how it was spun. If you're going to go on a tirade everytime a corporation spins something, your headed for a great deal of therapy.

 

[WDWHound]

Originally posted by raidermatt
They did not say that the guests who used EE would prefer CC.

Sorry, but they are saying exactly that. The message I recieved from both the consierge staff at AKL and from the reservations operator when I complained was that they canceled EE becuase guests told them they would rather have more interaction with with characters. I am certain of this because, in both cases, my response was "well, this is one guest who would rather have EE".

I agree that we are making a bit of a fuss over the spin, its just frustrating to be charged the same amount for less product and then be told they did this becuase we told them to.

 

[raidermatt]

I was referring to the insert received by the original poster, which has been going out since late last year.

I honestly have to say I'm still doubtful that very many CMs are saying they surveyed guests who USED EE and they said they would prefer CC to EE. (This is actually the first time I've heard that one). This may have been your interpretation, but I highly doubt this is what they meant.

I've heard the general statements that more guests wanted charater interaction, and/or that the decision was based on surveys. But never did they say they polled actual EE users and they said they didn't want EE.

I understand the frustration. Its the same frustration I feel over 6pm MK closings. But what point is there in quoting Disney statements about the Magic being as strong as ever, and b & m'ing about them being liars?

However, if that's helpful to some, go right ahead. I'll back off...

 

[All Aboard]

Matt, it was more than just spin, it was downright insulting.

The postcard I got said "We got a wakeup call! You spoke and we listened! Many guests were not using Early Entry and told us that they wanted more characters..."

If that doesn't say, "We got rid of EE and brought you CC because that's exactly what you wanted" then honestly, I don't know what does.

 

[raidermatt]

backing off.....

 

[TigerLaw]

First, thanks to gcurling for quoting the insert-I should have had it with me before I posted this.

Second, to back up our beloved hound, when I sent a complaint letter last year before my nov. 01 stay at CBR, I got the same answer-people said they would prefer more character interaction INSTEAD OF extra park time, and so that's what we (disney) are giving to the masses. Anyone who tried to assert that CC was not sold as a direct replacement of EE is living in fantasyland. (not a bad place to be of course!)

Finally, I would like to make one additional point - weren't there characters out (at least at MK) during the EE hours? I sure seem to remember so. If we assume that was the case, then the inserts make even less sense, b/c the same actual time a person could get w. a character at CC (i.e., a minute or two) that person could get at the EE park, so the "supposed" additional character time actually was the same. Now I can't believe anyone would say they would rather have character interaction in their resort lobby than they would in a park would they?

one last point - why do we need characters at the resorts anyway? yes, its a nice perk (albeit a grossly inferior one to EE) but is it THAT difficult to find the characters at the parks?

 

[raidermatt]

Anyone who tried to assert that CC was not sold as a direct replacement of EE is living in fantasyland. (not a bad place to be of course!)

If I weren't backing off, I'd counter that anyone who believed that interpretation, or thought that Disney really believed that interpretation, would have to be elected mayor of Fantasyland... (and if you're going to be mayor, it might as well be there!)

I'd also comment on this quote:

people said they would prefer more character interaction INSTEAD OF extra park time, and so that's what we (disney) are giving to the masses.

Substitute EE for "extra park time" and that's very similar to what many people posted. However, that does not say that guests WHO USED EE preferred more character interaction. We all know that its a fact that a relatively small percentage of guests used EE. Let's say its as high as 20% (we know it can't be much higher, or the parks would have been swamped during EE). That means that there's a pretty good chance that over 50% of the on-site guests would have chosen character interaction over EE on a survey, even if it were spelled out that way (which it probably wasn't).

Was that really the motivation for the decision?

Of course not. But if you expect Disney, or any other service company to come right out and tell you that most cuts are purely to increase profits, you're going to experience a lot of frustration. Its just not going to happen.

Again, focusing on that communication is like complaining about Saddam Hussein because he spit on the sidewalk.


Alright.

Now I'm done. I promise.

I relinquish the last word to whomever chooses to type it...

 

[Another Voice]

"why do we need characters at the resorts anyway? "

The actors who perform the costumed characters have one of the strongest unions on all of the property. According to rumor, when Disney went through one of their rounds of slashes - park hours, live shows, character breakfasts - it left too few hours to fullfill some of the union contracts. Very simply, Disney had to find a place for all these union workers. Hence you got a couple of high senority people in rubber suits waving at the crowded bus stops in the morning.

It seems to me that if WDW put half the effort into making things instead of all the effort they put into making up excuses there'd be an awfull lot less to complain about.

 

[WDW2002]

Originally posted by gcurling

The postcard I got said "We got a wakeup call! You spoke and we listened! Many guests were not using Early Entry and told us that they wanted more characters..."

They have the #'s on who used or did not use EE, no survey needed for that one. Guest said they wanted more Character interation. Two seperate things.

 

[Eeyore2U]

If you all go back and read the post when EE was stopped, like the thread on the Themes Park board you will see that not as many people used EE as you thought.

You will also see that MANY, if not the majority see no real loss now that they have gone without it.

Anyone who tried to assert that CC was not sold as a direct replacement of EE is living in fantasyland. (not a bad place to be of course!)

If you believed that CC was a replacement for EE, would you like to buy some swamp land in Arizona?

The actors who perform the costumed characters have one of the strongest unions on all of the property. According to rumor, when Disney went through one of their rounds of slashes - park hours, live shows, character breakfasts - it left too few hours to fullfill some of the union contracts. Very simply, Disney had to find a place for all these union workers. Hence you got a couple of high senority people in rubber suits waving at the crowded bus stops in the morning.

For those who have been following "as the EE turns" heard this on the DIS many months ago.

 

[EUROPA]

......and I bet the number of people that make use the CC is very similar to the numbers that used EE or even less, based on the number of people we saw at the CC interaction. The only difference is they only need a few employees to run CC where as it took many more to run EE. Its all about the $$$$



...one point though...if EE was not as widely used as everybody is saying then why did almost every guide book, Website, fourm, or "person in the know" say to avoid the park that has EE that day?

 

[WDW2002]

Originally posted by EUROPA
one point though...if EE was not as widely used as everybody is saying then why did almost every guide book, Website, fourm, or "person in the know" say to avoid the park that has EE that day?

Could it be that the EE days coincided with the parks already busy day?? And then add to it the onsite guest would DID take advantage of EE, you got a crowded park.

 

[Another Voice]

…you will see that not as many people used EE as you thought…

Yes, according to rumors 8,000 to 10,000 guests represent the “not as many people as you think”*. And yes I read many postings by people who said that since they didn’t use early entry, they didn’t mind that it was missing. Funny, but I read more postings (on this a Disney “fan” board) by people who are upset by the move. Of course, Disney being shut another hotel and their overall poor performance probably indicates what the general public thinks about the constant reduction in value of Disney resorts.

If you believed that CC was a replacement for EE, would you like to buy some swamp land in Arizona?

Funny, that’s what they said at the time. Maybe the real reason all the parks shut hours early is because all the guests were demanding to rush back to their resorts to watch all those primetime ABC shows on TV.

For those who have been following "as the EE turns" heard this on the DIS many months ago.

Which makes it puzzling why Disney continues with the lie.


* - also according to rumor, that's twice the daily attendance at California Adventure. Sadly, no one is talking about closing DCA and turning it into a character greeting stage.

 

[DisneyFanGuy]

I, quite frankly, am much more upset about the reduced overall operating hours than EE. Most people that I know liked EE because they visited OTHER parks on that day to avoid the crowds.

It's the reduction in hours that is making me nuts. No longer can I build a rest break in at mid-day, or effectively park hop if the MK closes at 8 or 9 in the busy part of the year.

I am convinced that Disney has a strategy of moving guests either to E-Ticket nights (at an extra charge), or to DD or PI to encourage a higher level of spending. I'm sure that they try different things to encourage a higher per guest average spending, and try different things to increase that number. They probably dropped EE as part of an overall strategy along with the earlier closes. The guests move to other, premium areas of the resort, spend more money, and costs are reduced because the parks who already have most of their revenue for the day eliminate a big portion of their labor.

On the books it looks really good. Higher spending per guest, and reduced costs. What's not to like? Oh I forgot............Decreased "perceived value" of the resort leads to fewer return visits.

I know many people who are going to Disney. I also know many people who have been disappointed by their recent visits and they don't spend time reading fan boards. They just will go someplace else next time. We are about to see more and more cuts folks. It's going to get really bloody really fast. We are seeing just the beginning.

By the way.....I was there on July 4th and had a great time. We saw some pretty amazing service shortfalls though. I mentioned that to the guest service manager at our off-site hotel and she chuckled and said that everyone in Orlando knows that Disney is sliding fast. She also mentioned that Sea World and Universal are actually adding people and improving service to ATTRACT more guests vs. cutting costs. She suggested that I check them out and I would be impressed at what they have been doing. hmmmmmmm.

 

[Bob O]

The insert by wdw is a outright lie, a intentional lie to cover up another major cut/reduction for people who stay on site. Then they add furthur insult by putting together the CC as a supposed replacement for EE!!! We had our best intereaction with the characters duing EE at the MK. It was great to get unrushed photo's without other people in the backround, escpecially with the castle as a backdrop!!! Some may be fine with this and may swallow all the BS that disneywill give them. I know myself we wont stay onsite without EE!!!! It wont break wdw by any stretch of the imagnation but will cause them the loss of a couple of thousand dollars and savemy family money. Of course we will stay onsite at USF where they still offer great perks for their guests. With more actions like this maybe wdw will close even more resorts than they a;lready have!!

 

[EUROPA]

Originally posted by WDW2002

Could it be that the EE days coincided with the parks already busy day?? And then add to it the onsite guest would DID take advantage of EE, you got a crowded park.

Ummm...sort of the chicken or the egg there...which came first.

EE was a way to help people enjoy the parks before they got busy. If attendace of EE was so poorly attended how would 2000(some numbers I've heard people say) more people even be noticable?

 

[DaveO]

By the way.....I was there on July 4th and had a great time. We saw some pretty amazing service shortfalls though. I mentioned that to the guest service manager at our off-site hotel and she chuckled and said that everyone in Orlando knows that Disney is sliding fast. She also mentioned that Sea World and Universal are actually adding people and improving service to ATTRACT more guests vs. cutting costs. She suggested that I check them out and I would be impressed at what they have been doing. hmmmmmmm.

In my experience during my last trip in December - This is NOT true. IOA/US/SeaWorld all had the same cuts and in US case there were MORE cuts. I went to all three. I also did not see any better service - in the case of SeaWorld it was horrible. JMHO

PS - I do not like the hours being reduced or EE being gone. My prediction is that by next summer EE will be back in some form if not sooner.

Dave O.