Disney Heavy Handed Tactics

[BahamaMan Dan]

Do you realize that most people who come by cruise ship don't even get off the ship? That should tell you something about your present and future state of your economy.

72% get off the ships. That came from Kim Prunty’s office. I’m not making this up. Ask Kim!

 

[BahamaMan Dan]

Not according to Wikipedia (yes, I know that info is changeable):
Tourism
The Bahamas relies on tourism to generate most of its economic activity. Tourism as an industry not only accounts for over 60% of the Bahamian GDP, but provides jobs for more than half the country's workforce. The Bahamas attracted 5.8 million visitors in 2012, more than 70% of whom were cruise visitors.

From the Minister of Tourism who states in the next decade the level will be 60%. Wiki is wrong more than a carny worker guessing weight. What is more from the same Minister, cruise passengers account for 75%, not 70%. Oh, the best part? That 75% only accounts for an average of 11% of the entire revenue from tourism for the Bahamas. Bahamians know this. I just would like others to know that this is not a symbiotic relationship. It is parasitic.

 

[BahamaMan Dan]

I think it's a shame that the area is being developed. My understanding though is that the land is for sale, meaning that someone will develop it. So the question is whether Disney is worse than the alternative.

I will certainly follow what happens with development before deciding if I will cruise to the area.

I agree. There are other options, but the people of the south are so impoverished, there needs to be something. There is another plan afoot for employment and declaring this beautiful area a national park. The debate is very heated and that is why I started off with saying that there may not be the warmest welcome. It certainly wasn’t a threat, as the other person suggested. It was simply an observation borne from the fact that the government bulled through without listening to the majority. I know this likely doesn’t happen in your country (just joking) but here it does. I’m not trying to pick oncruisers, really not. I do however, see it as my responsibility to show Disney that what they do affects others. Disney coming to the Bahamas does not preclude us from arriving on your shores to provide information. Perhaps the link I gave wasn’t the best representation of Disney’s tactics, but Kim P. posted that just this morning after there was rumours that the government might delay the decision for 60 days to hear both sides properly. So her response was perceived by the general populace as very heavy handed. Bahamians don’t like to be told that they have to decide right now. Especially if they are told “or else”.

 

[BahamaMan Dan]

Tourism accounts for most of The Bahamas' economy and provides most of the jobs for the country's workforce. Over 70% of tourists who visit the Bahamas are cruise passengers.

I don't get what they're upset about. Disney is the most responsible (and according to the CDC the cleanest) cruise ship line servicing the Bahamas. This isn't Carnival where you got a bunch of 18 year olds renting a $250 cabin so they can get drunk the whole week. One of the reasons I only cruise DCL with my family is the fact that the passengers in my opinion are of higher integrity than most others. I find that most people criticizing DCL have either never been or have other issues. Bahamians complaining about tourism is like a shoe maker complaining about too many people wearing shoes. Strange.

I applaud the conscientious choice in picking the most eco friendly cruise ship line. Of course, in my mind that is like saying that the merits of genocide should be based on how many killed, not on whether the whole idea is repugnant. I don’t think too many Bahamians are complaining about tourists (well, not entirely true. I know a few that dislike em all, but that’s not really a good representation of the majority ) I’m sure DCL is a swell bunch. Just what they do to make it a swell time for cruisers comes at a cost very dear, to very dear people.

 

[BahamaMan Dan]

I think it's a shame that the area is being developed. My understanding though is that the land is for sale, meaning that someone will develop it. So the question is whether Disney is worse than the alternative.

I will certainly follow what happens with development before deciding if I will cruise to the area.

I like the cut of your jib. I am not here to force people to stop cruising. I am here to raise awareness to what it is like for others.

 

[DisneyWishes14]

I agree. There are other options, but the people of the south are so impoverished, there needs to be something. There is another plan afoot for employment and declaring this beautiful area a national park. The debate is very heated and that is why I started off with saying that there may not be the warmest welcome. It certainly wasn’t a threat, as the other person suggested. It was simply an observation borne from the fact that the government bulled through without listening to the majority. I know this likely doesn’t happen in your country (just joking) but here it does. I’m not trying to pick oncruisers, really not. I do however, see it as my responsibility to show Disney that what they do affects others. Disney coming to the Bahamas does not preclude us from arriving on your shores to provide information. Perhaps the link I gave wasn’t the best representation of Disney’s tactics, but Kim P. posted that just this morning after there was rumours that the government might delay the decision for 60 days to hear both sides properly. So her response was perceived by the general populace as very heavy handed. Bahamians don’t like to be told that they have to decide right now. Especially if they are told “or else”.

What business in the world is going to approve of a 60 day delay to allow for a competing organization to get their act together to come up with a competing bid and perhaps knock their own bid out of competition? That's not realistic. I'd be willing to bet she would have been fired if she had agreed to a delay that would have helped a competing bid. Don't get me wrong. I understand why local Bahamans would be upset by any development there. I live in coastal New England and we are all quite sensitive and aware of our shoreline, our waters' ecosystem, etc. and have many laws protecting it. Based on the decision, it appears the Bahamas felt like they couldn't afford to have Disney walk away. Hopefully, they live up to their reputation for conservatism and local philanthropy. Your statements regarding people not rolling out the welcome mat are a little disturbing, quite honestly. We travel to meet new people and experience new cultures. We are deliberately cruising out of Puerto Rico this December to some southern Caribbean ports to try to help the economies of many islands that were greatly affected by Hurricane Maria. No tourist is coming to the Bahamas out of ill-will or with the intention of hurting those that live there. I will certainly take your concerns into account, though, and will keep myself abreast of the situation at Lighthouse Point.

 

[DynamicDisneyDuo]

See my reply to an earlier post. Jeff says it is so, with (as I understand it) a few breaks here and there and a small off season to allow for servicing and maintenance.

I'm sorry but unless they are either a. Going to abandon Castaway Cay or b. Share the space with another line, Disney does not have a large enough fleet to support 7 days at the new place and 3-5 days at CC

 

[southerngirl528]

Tourism is 54% of the economy, btw.

I'm from Florida, which is very highly dependent on tourism as well. But I'm curious. What is the rest of the Bahamas' economic base?

 

[southerngirl528]

Here's a very good article link posted by someone on a similar thread:

https://www.bahamaslocal.com/newsit...eleaseCabinet_Office_on_Lighthouse_Point.html

 

[BahamaMan Dan]

What business in the world is going to approve of a 60 day delay to allow for a competing organization to get their act together to come up with a competing bid and perhaps knock their own bid out of competition? That's not realistic. I'd be willing to bet she would have been fired if she had agreed to a delay that would have helped a competing bid. Don't get me wrong. I understand why local Bahamans would be upset by any development there. I live in coastal New England and we are all quite sensitive and aware of our shoreline, our waters' ecosystem, etc. and have many laws protecting it. Based on the decision, it appears the Bahamas felt like they couldn't afford to have Disney walk away. Hopefully, they live up to their reputation for conservatism and local philanthropy. Your statements regarding people not rolling out the welcome mat are a little disturbing, quite honestly. We travel to meet new people and experience new cultures. We are deliberately cruising out of Puerto Rico this December to some southern Caribbean ports to try to help the economies of many islands that were greatly affected by Hurricane Maria. No tourist is coming to the Bahamas out of ill-will or with the intention of hurting those that live there. I will certainly take your concerns into account, though, and will keep myself abreast of the situation at Lighthouse Point.

Approve? I didn’t say anything of approve. The government was deciding on it, and Disney felt compelled to interject their voice once again into the affairs of government. They weren’t asked to approve it. There is a saying in the Bahamas when it’s not your place to say ( never understood it myself) something on a topic, they say “sit small”. Disney doesn’t like to sit small, lol. On the subject of Kim? Oh, definitely! This was certainly not her call to publish the demand to a”agree or else”. This was higher up the food chain to be sure. Lastly, no, I really don’t think, nor did I imply any where, at any time that you all go on these cruises with ill will or cruel intentions. Those that love Disney are not that type. I love what Disney represents, I just want all of us to be aware of how they operate when not in front of the “cameras” of public scrutiny.

 

[southerngirl528]

BahamaManDan, I just read a few pieces on this & apparently the land in question is privately owned? And has been on the real estate market for a good while? I truly do understand how painful progress can be when you see places you love that are pretty much unspoiled, turn into something else. I've watched that happen a lot in my favorite place, Hawaii. But if indeed Lighthouse Point and the surrounding area are privately owned, couldn't a group have put in for the purchase themselves? No doubt it was a sizable chunk of money, but if what I'm reading is correct re: privately owned and the land was for sale for a while........ well, I'm just sorry that this has upset some people. But Lord knows someone far worse could have purchased this lovely place.

 

[BahamaMan Dan]

I'm from Florida, which is very highly dependent on tourism as well. But I'm curious. What is the rest of the Bahamas' economic base?

Well the break down is roughly 17% Financial services, Agriculture and Fisheries 5%, Taxation 16%, Industry (like beer and salt, lol) 6% and Tourism about 54% ( it fluctuates a point or two depending on year). The other 2% is everything else.

 

[BahamaMan Dan]

BahamaManDan, I just read a few pieces on this & apparently the land in question is privately owned? And has been on the real estate market for a good while? I truly do understand how painful progress can be when you see places you love that are pretty much unspoiled, turn into something else. I've watched that happen a lot in my favorite place, Hawaii. But if indeed Lighthouse Point and the surrounding area are privately owned, couldn't a group have put in for the purchase themselves? No doubt it was a sizable chunk of money, but if what I'm reading is correct re: privately owned and the land was for sale for a while........ well, I'm just sorry that this has upset some people. But Lord knows someone far worse could have purchased this lovely place.

I commend you for reading the info. Lord knows there is enough out there. Equipping oneself with the facts, as long as they are facts to be sure, is the hallmark of a civilized and conscientious people, and ensures oneself not being swayed by fake news or corrupted principles. Most of the land is privately owned. However, how it works in the Bahamas is government approval must be given before a parcel of land of this value is transacted, and in addition to a foreign entity. Furthermore the development must receive approval before the land can be transacted and government is usually required to consult the public. The fact that it is privately owned (by the Related Group, Jorge Perez, Miami) does not mean just anything can happen to it. There was also a competing offer by a Bahamian consortium that would have provided the land Bahamian ownership and turned into a National Park. And that’s where it gets murky. The government is corrupt, and is well known for being unduly influenced by bribes and payoffs and perks. But it always takes two to tango on that dance floor. The fact that what was paraded around as public approval was a meeting with 150 people and that the government seemed determined from the start to approve Disney makes all of us believe the fix was in. That being said, we know this is not you fine peoples problem. You all want to go on vacation. But we all know that 25% of the tourists to our country ( the stay over, heads in beds tourists) provide 89% of that revenue that accounts for 54% of our GDP. That is why I say the real losers are the people of the Bahamas, and our most delicate, sensitive resource that is our sand and sea, which is usurped by hungry corporations eager to satisfy the needs of the voracious appetite of their customers.

 

[southerngirl528]

Well the break down is roughly 17% Financial services, Agriculture and Fisheries 5%, Taxation 16%, Industry (like beer and salt, lol) 6% and Tourism about 54% ( it fluctuates a point or two depending on year). The other 2% is everything else.

Thanks. I truly had no idea.

 

[DCL_Wonder]

In an attempt to force the Bahamian Government into accepting their plans for a new private cruise port on Eleuthera, Bahamas, Disney PR spokesperson Kim Prunty issued a statement found here in a Nassau newspaper: https://thenassauguardian.com/2018/...DBtQYthcSibN5oMrEdpJ1ykNXIC4F4vOTU3lkwYWRCF60

Disney cruise line execs have been secretly on the island for 6 months trying to rally support for their plan which is proposed for 700 acres on the southern most tip of Eleuthera, a pristine and untouched and very sensitive ecosystem. The plans are for one cruise ship a day, 4000 passengers, every day. The environmental impact of this would quickly degrade the surrounding area, both in the sea and on land. Bahamian citizens are not fond of being pushed around and vow to make their voices heard. They want the Disney cruise customers to know that there will not be a welcome mat on the beaches of Lighthouse Point. So, after saying all that, what is your opinion?

I can't wait to visit the DCL's Lighthouse Point! Do you know when it will be ready for ships?

 

[undertheradar]

So the Bahamian people are against a cruise line that is flagged by The Bahamas, developing another island in The Bahamas? For an island country that depends upon tourist dollars to survive, the opposition is foolish. Many repeat cruisers refuse to depart the ships when they are in Nassau, perhaps tourist spending will increase if another island is developed.

 

[BahamaMan Dan]

I can't wait to visit the DCL's Lighthouse Point! Do you know when it will be ready for ships?

Disney says 2022/23

 

[we"reofftoneverland]

Who is this Bahamaman dan? My guess is you are with the Sierra Club. Lol. No thanks. Take your political talk somewhere else. There is nothing heavy handed in Disney's statement. If anything this is a huge opportunity for the Bahamas. But, in the end, it is PRIVATE property up for sale.

 

[BahamaMan Dan]

So the Bahamian people are against a cruise line that is flagged by The Bahamas, developing another island in The Bahamas? For an island country that depends upon tourist dollars to survive, the opposition is foolish. Many repeat cruisers refuse to depart the ships when they are in Nassau, perhaps tourist spending will increase if another island is developed.

You know of course that companies use the Bahamas to flag their fleet because the country does not have the resources to enforce maritime governance, and even that is a lower bar to hurdle than in the states. Have you asked yourself why Disney, the epitome of conscientious cruise ship travel chooses to register in a country such as the Bahamas? Well, not because they are sticklers for the law, I can tell you that much. A report done on this very subject quoted here: “flags of convenience" trend dates back to Prohibition: "Cruise lines have been circumventing U.S. statutes and regulations since as early as the 1920s." She also cites a legal journal report on ship registry practices: "By opting to re-flag in a new nation, a vessel owner becomes subject to the safety, labor and environmental codes of that nation. Thus, those nations whose open registries have become the most popular also tend to be those who possess the most lax labor, safety and environmental codes." From Caitlin Burke, University of Florida.
May I also point out and I repeat, they don’t depend on tourist dollars. It’s important, but not the entire picture. They particularly don’t depend on cruise ship dollars. Cruise ship revenue is 10-11% of the tourism dollar spent, and tourism is 54% of the total GDP. That is between 5.4 and 5.94% of the GDP. So the “increase” you speak of with another island developed isn’t something Bahamians are grovelling for. And the cruise port will be private and controlled, meaning Disney retains most all of the profits on shore. Few of the tour providers make more than basic wages. To be fair, Disney appears to be attempting to be somewhat more generous than Princess Cruise Lines. Their take of the tour operators rates is 70% if they want access to Princess’s customers. Again, being better than that isn’t that hard because frankly, what Princess cruise lines is doing would make Captain Jack Sparrow proud!

 

[BahamaMan Dan]

Who is this Bahamaman dan? My guess is you are with the Sierra Club. Lol. No thanks. Take your political talk somewhere else. There is nothing heavy handed in Disney's statement. If anything this is a huge opportunity for the Bahamas. But, in the end, it is PRIVATE property up for sale.

Who am I. Just someone (no, not with any club of any kind) that witnessed the struggle on Eleuthera, saw it torn apart, and tried to do something.