Disney Employee Suspended After Bringing Gun To Work

[SelfEmployedDebtFree]

It is beyond me why folks in other countries regard us a nation of loud, gun-loving freaks.

They regard us as a lot of things. Not all of them are true. We regard other nations of a lot of things too, and all them aren't true either. I never liked mass stereotypes.

 

[DancingBear]

ANY law created will violate my 2nd amendment.

Even Justice Scalia doesn't think that is true. From District of Columbia v. Heller:

"Like most rights, the right secured by the Second Amendment is not unlimited. From Blackstone through the 19th-century cases, commentators and courts routinely explained that the right was not a right to keep and carry any weapon whatsoever in any manner whatsoever and for whatever purpose."

 

[DancingBear]

They regard us as a lot of things. Not all of them are true. We regard other nations of a lot of things too, and all them aren't true either. I never liked mass stereotypes.

Aren't you the same person that said this in a discussion about the lawsuit brought by a Sikh-AMERICAN?:

"I think its so ironic how a country, whos whole existence is ANTI-American is so defended when they come to OUR country and try to take advantage of OUR businesses so they can send the money BACK to their ANTI-America country."

 

[CanadianGuy]

It is beyond me why folks in other countries regard us a nation of loud, gun-loving freaks.

I wondered why we thought that too... turns out that... (source : University of Pennsylvania Firearm and Injury Center's Report on Firearms Injuries in the U.S. (2003)

Firearm injury in the United States has averaged 32,538 deaths annually between 1970 and 2002. It is the second leading cause of death from injury after motor vehicle crashes and, in several states, is the leading cause of injury death.

An estimated two nonfatal injuries occur for every firearm death. Firearms are involved in approximately 65% of homicides, 55% of suicides, 40% of robberies, and 20% of aggravated assaults. The fatality rate of firearm violence is similar to HIV, which is recognized as an epidemic by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), and is more than twice as high as the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services’ “Healthy People” goals for the year 2010.

For the year 2002 the number of firearm related deaths in Canada was 816. That's not a typo. We had 816 deaths and the USA had over 30,000 the same calendar year.

Ah yes, the USA does have a much bigger population than Canada. So.. multiply the Canadian Deaths by a factor of 10.. to account for the difference in population.

Now we're at USA ==================== 32,000
Canada (if it had a population of 300 million) = 8160

And because included in those numbers are suicide by firearms...

INTENTIONAL SELF-DIRECTED: FIREARM SUICIDE

Suicide is the 11th leading cause of death among Americans. More people die each year in the U.S. from suicide than from homicide. A firearm is the most commonly used method to commit suicide (54%). The firearm suicide rate has remained virtually unchanged over the past two decades

• Someone commits suicide with a firearm every 17 minutes.38
• Handguns are the most frequently used type of firearm, accounting for 70% of the firearm related suicides.
• Suicide attempts with a gun are the most fatal of all gun injury and result in death 70-90% of the time. By contrast, only 10-15% of suicide attempts by any other means (i.e. hanging, carbon-monoxide poisoning, pills, or cutting) are fatal. Hospitals see a significant number of firearm injuries labeled as accidental or unintentional that are intentional in nature. Identification of these attempts is needed to prevent a repeated successful attempt. This is especially important in youth where there are 100-200 youth suicide attempts for every
completion.

Clearly the right to bear arms costs quite a few other arms, and fingers, and toes and legs and .... lives.

And speaking of the 'right to bear arms' --- let's look at the history of the second amendment closely .. (text borrowed from same source indicated above)

The Second Amendment

Those opposed to firearm regulation often cite the Second Amendment to the U.S. Constitution as protecting the individual right of ownership and use of firearms. This interpretation of the Second Amendment is controversial, and has not been supported by the U.S. Supreme Court,which last ruled on the issue in 1939. The Second Amendment of the United States Constitution
states, "A well-regulated Militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms shall not be infringed."

• The U.S. Supreme Court ruled in U.S. v. Miller (1939) that the possession of a firearm is not protected by the Second Amendment unless it has some reasonable relationship to the preservation or efficiency of a well-regulated militia (today the National Guard and Army Reserves). Until recently, federal courts upheld this interpretation of the Second Amendment to protect the creation of state militias, but not to protect an individual’s right to gun
ownership.

• The U.S. Fifth Circuit Court of Appeals challenged Second Amendment precedent in U.S. v. Emerson (1999). The Court of Appeals issued two decisions in October 2001. One decision upheld the federal law passed in 1994 that prohibits persons under a restraining order to possess a firearm. With the second decision, the judges ruled 2-1 by obiter dicta, (a so-called judicial excursion not directly relevant to the case being decided), that the Second Amendment grants an individual right to gun ownership.

So.. it would appear that ... to borrow a Perry Mason-ism --- the jury is still out on that one.... HOWEVER..

NOW I GET IT ... I FINALLY understand what the talking heads on FOX NEWS are getting at when they talk about 'activist judges' at the Courts of Appeal ...

I'm sorry .. this thread has now taken a very significant detour from the topic which was the Disney Employee who was fired for failing to cooperate with the investigation of whether he brought a firearm on Disney property against Disney policy and Florida law.*

*Florida law because the exemption that Disney has from the State of Florida is fireworks and safety related.



Knox

 

[genkav]

mickey mouse brings a gun to work. scary.

 

[DancingBear]

Canadian Guy, to be fair, the decision a few weeks ago in District of Columbia vs. Heller renders that statement about U.S. v. Miller moot (at least unless and until the composition of the U.S. Supreme Court changes).

 

[extreme8]

Sorry to quote the whole post, but I didn't want to take any of the propaganda out of context.

32,538 deaths by firearms yearly.
30,917 of them are by suicide (the "facts" state that "Someone commits suicide with a firearm every 17 minutes".)
That leaves just 1621 deaths at the hands of others. Not nearly as bad as one might expect from a country of over 300,000,000 people, full of violent gun nuts.

Note that I don't buy any of the numbers cited below, just pointing out that you should double check the "facts" you cherry pick to backup your point.

I agree that this post has veered off of point a bit, but these types of discussions normally do. Since the off-point juggernaut is being propagated by a mod, I guess we just roll with it.

I wondered why we thought that too... turns out that... (source : University of Pennsylvania Firearm and Injury Center's Report on Firearms Injuries in the U.S. (2003)



For the year 2002 the number of firearm related deaths in Canada was 816. That's not a typo. We had 816 deaths and the USA had over 30,000 the same calendar year.

Ah yes, the USA does have a much bigger population than Canada. So.. multiply the Canadian Deaths by a factor of 10.. to account for the difference in population.

Now we're at USA ==================== 32,000
Canada (if it had a population of 300 million) = 8160

And because included in those numbers are suicide by firearms...


Clearly the right to bear arms costs quite a few other arms, and fingers, and toes and legs and .... lives.

And speaking of the 'right to bear arms' --- let's look at the history of the second amendment closely .. (text borrowed from same source indicated above)



So.. it would appear that ... to borrow a Perry Mason-ism --- the jury is still out on that one.... HOWEVER..

NOW I GET IT ... I FINALLY understand what the talking heads on FOX NEWS are getting at when they talk about 'activist judges' at the Courts of Appeal ...

I'm sorry .. this thread has now taken a very significant detour from the topic which was the Disney Employee who was fired for failing to cooperate with the investigation of whether he brought a firearm on Disney property against Disney policy and Florida law.*

*Florida law because the exemption that Disney has from the State of Florida is fireworks and safety related.



Knox

 

[PrincessKsMom]

As long as your not dialing a number instead of driving, you have nothing to fear. What SCARES me is the soccer moms trying to drive those HUGE SUVs while juggling 2 fighting kids, a cup of coffee, 3 text messages, and an email while driving down the road.
Nothing against SUVs, but When you are driving, EVERYTHING should STOP except for your driving. This means ALL emotional phone calls, all calls that avoid extra fingers and scanning your cellphone for numbers, all emails, all texts, all fast food, all makeup applications, etc. I have a temper because people all around me are doing STUPID things rather than trying to CONCENTRATE on their driving!!! I get sick and tired of having to swerve to avoid an accident from some brainless idiot who is doing EVERYTHING BUT concentrating on their driving.


Above the law??? The 2nd amendment guarantees my right to defend myself with a firearm. ANY law created will violate my 2nd amendment. THAT would anger me.

I completely agree about drivers not paying attention to driving. I'm with you 100% percent. However, I am concerned about someone with obvious anger issues driving around like Dirty Harry chasing soccer moms on cell phones. As far as your Second Amendment right, I'd like to see that fly in New York City with the hyped up security since 9/11. Come on by and give it a try!

 

[CanadianGuy]

32,538 deaths by firearms yearly.
30,917 of them are by suicide

(the "facts" state that "Someone commits suicide with a firearm every 17 minutes".)

This article was poorly worded and least one point wrong it would appear. The statistics on suicide seem to be a fairly fluid. Several sources agree on the following statistic therefore they probably should have said someone attempts suicide every 17 minutes.. 57 % of those are with a gun. The footnote for that reference is the American Association of Suicidology but upon visiting their website, it very clearly states the above info WRT the 57% are gun related.

The unspoken point was that the 17 minutes rule holds in Canada as well, but since access to guns is so much more limited, many fewer die and instead receive treatment.

Note that I don't buy any of the numbers cited below, just pointing out that you should double check the "facts" you cherry pick to backup your point.

I agree that this post has veered off of point a bit, but these types of discussions normally do. Since the off-point juggernaut is being propagated by a mod, I guess we just roll with it.

Mods are allowed to express personal opinions within the DIS Posting Guidelines.

But even you don't believe ANY of the numbers.. the only point I was trying to make is ... when you compare on an equitable basis (per 100,000 population say), Canada's handgun deaths, automatic firearm deaths and firearm deaths in general (regardless of cause) are a factor of four or more times... LESS than the US.

This makes me chuckle whenever someone blames violence on TV, videogames etc... as Canada gets the same TV and the same videogames..



You're absolutely right however, I should have never cracked my keyboard on this end of the topic. It's not really relevant to this thread (really) ... and opposing sides can quote numbers at each other every day for a year and at the end of it, they'll still be arguing over sources... and not the topic at hand.

So ... I guess we DIS posters share that with the NRA and the anti-gun lobby.

Knox

 

[extreme8]

CanadianGuy, I appreciate the civil response, and I agree that neither side is likely to make any converts in a forum like this.

I certainly agree that mods can and should be able to post personal opinions and I hope I didn't appear to say anything contrary to that. I was just saying that as long as we were wandering off topic it was nice to have a mod along for the ride - kinda like having adult supervision when you're doing something a bit dangerous.

Regarding the suicide rate - It sort of supports my stand of not believing the numbers (regardless of which side publishes them)
What might be seen as a "poorly worded" statement by one person can easily be seen as outright deception by another.

The numbers can usually support whatever point the author is trying to support - again side "A" is just as guilty as side "B" when it comes to this nonsense.
For example, in many studies, anyone under the age of 21 is considered under the "children killed by guns" category.
I don't pretend to know the socio-economic issues in Canada, and I don't have any figures regarding such things in the U.S. (even if I did I probably wouldn't believe them ), but my internal common-sense-o-meter says that if you were to remove drug and gang related violence from those gun numbers it would probably show a completely different picture.

 

[CanadianGuy]

Extreme:

Ditto on civility.. I'm not sure that I qualify as adult supervision. I'll check with a webmaster and when they're done laughing, I'll get back to ya

if you were to remove drug and gang related violence from those gun numbers it would probably show a completely different picture.

But ... we have drugs and gangs too.. and yes sometimes they shoot innocent people even ... but at a rate dramatically less than in the US. In fact, probably if you removed those from the Canadian numbers you'd wonder if anyone else in Canada HAS a gun. (joke)

Maybe it's the ready availability of "Smarties" candies to keep everyone calm. ?

Knox

 

[WDSearcher]

To veer back to the original topic for a sec ... ... here's my question.

The security guard in question has been with Disney for 13 years, yes? And for 13 years he's presumably been driving to and from work unarmed. No mention in the article that he had been a past victim of a car-jacking or other "unarmed in a car" type of crime. (Because I'm thinking that if he HAD been, that would have gone into the story somewhere.)

So why is it NOW so important for him to carry a gun to protect himself? Has the crime rate on I-4 changed so drastically that he now feels that it's so important to carry a gun in his car when he presumably got along just fine without one for the past 13 years? And if he's worried about the late night and the dark parking lot ... well ... gun's not going to help him unless he's IN the car, right? He's not carrying to and from his work location. So if someone decides to mug him in the parking lot as he's walking to his car, how does having a gun in his car help?

He's using crime and the late hour and the deserted parking lot as his reasoning, but why is that such a big deal now, when he's apparently been fine for 13 years? I work at Disney too. I do early mornings and late nights. I drive I-4 and backroads. Never have I had even a hint of trouble. And really ... if crime against people in or around Disney was a problem, don't you think someone like the Sentinel would have done a HUGE expose by now? "Disney Cast in Constant Peril" is what the headline would read. But even the Sentinel can't come up with crime numbers that support this guy's story except to look at Orlando in general. And unless this guy lives in one of the dicier neighborhoods, I don't get the sudden need for protection.

 

[cruisedad]

Anyone can throw all the spin around on this topic. The bottom line is he violated company rules and brought a gun to work. Disney employees are told the rule on this when they start working there and are told that there cars are subject to random searches by Disney Security and their K9.
If this guy has a Florida concealed weapon permit he should know the boundries on where he can/can not carry a weapon and a place that has explosives(fireworks) is off limits. He is just looking for attention and probably big bucks from Disney, but he has violated too many rules.

 

[SelfEmployedDebtFree]

Canadian bear... You got me. Guilty. I thought about that post the moment I hit the submit button. To be honest, I wish i had never even seen the other thread. Nothing i said came out the way I wanted. It was a disaster. At least I'm man enough to admit when I'm wrong. Thats worth something.
PrincessKsmom. I never SAID I was Dirty Harry (though I do think he'd be a better President than what we have, OR either we have running!!!!) and I never said I was hunting for soccer Moms in SUVs. I don't HAVE to, they find ME!!! They are usually the ones who are 6" from my bumper. As I pull up a few feet for comfort sake, they are usually looking off to the right or left (or at the cellphone keypad) as they inch forward closer still. And its not just soccer Moms who gab and dont pay attention. That flaw covers all people, age, experience, and social types.
Anyways, I think this discussion has hit the bottom, so I'm unsubscribing.
Back to the food porn! Its a happy place there!

 

[KINGBOBOFTHENORTH]

Orlando Sentinel columnist Mike Thomas has a column in today's paper which pretty much explains the whole story. In brief, the gun lobby successfully got the law through the Florida legislature that allows employees with concealed weapons permits to keep a gun in their car at work. So when it became apparent that the law was going to pass, work was done to grant exemptions to companies that held federal explosives permits. Proponents were napping when they didn't study what that meant and little did they realize that included companies that used fireworks. So now that's the law and they either have to live with it or change the law. Meanwhile, the law as it stands faces many challenges. The NRA and the gun lobby were outsmarted by the Mouse, as the column concludes.

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/business/orl-miket1308jul13,0,7464186.column

BobK/Orlando

 

[doubletrouble_vb]

I wonder if this lovely law included an exemption for places of government employment. It must because there are certainly places the Federal government really wouldn't want its employees to have the right to bear arms of their own. I betcha the state legislature doesn't let unauthorized employees walk around packing weapons.

It would be entertaining to see what would happen if employers banned ammunition from their premises...but you'd be free to carry the gun.

 

[doubletrouble_vb]

This is just the exemptions but pretty its fairly likely there is a state law somewhere that bans arms on state property. And Federal law supercedes this one so the federal thing is a non-issue.

What is interesting is the school exemption. Why exempt schools if you didn't plan to exempt other locations where children congregate?

(7) EXCEPTIONS.--The prohibitions in subsection (4) do not
196 apply to:
197 (a) Any school property as defined and regulated under s.
198 790.115.
199 (b) Any correctional institution regulated under s. 944.47
200 or chapter 957.
201 (c) Any property where a nuclear-powered electricity
202 generation facility is located.
203 (d) Property owned or leased by a public or private
204 employer or the landlord of a public or private employer upon
205 which are conducted substantial activities involving national
206 defense, aerospace, or homeland security.
207 (e) Property owned or leased by a public or private
208 employer or the landlord of a public or private employer upon
209 which the primary business conducted is the manufacture, use,
210 storage, or transportation of combustible or explosive materials
211 regulated under state or federal law, or property owned or
212 leased by an employer who has obtained a permit required under
213 18 U.S.C. s. 842 to engage in the business of importing,
214 manufacturing, or dealing in explosive materials on such
215 property.
216 (f) A motor vehicle owned, leased, or rented by a public
217 or private employer or the landlord of a public or private
218 employer.
219 (g) Any other property owned or leased by a public or
220 private employer or the landlord of a public or private employer
221 upon which possession of a firearm or other legal product by a
222 customer, employee, or invitee is prohibited pursuant to any
223 federal law, contract with a federal government entity, or
224 general law of this state.

 

[CanadianGuy]

Wow.. IANAL -- but there are a LOT of exemptions there and a creative lawyer could probably shoe-horn just about any business thru there somehow in a pinch.

Cool.. Thanks for posting that.