Disney does not want or need FastPass+ Haters business!

[EMode]

According to our school board (and teachers we've talked to):

Early (late Sept and early Oct) and just after midterms (late Jan/early Feb).

For us just after midterms won't work for the kids who are taking 1/2 credit courses since it will be when they first start for the second semester.

I miss being able to take my kids out of school without worrying too much about what will be missed.

 

[kdnmom]

" Originally Posted by pilferk View Post


No, you don't. You really don't. You can park your butt on a bench, walkway, or in a standby line and not spend another dime. And..largely..that's what a good bulk of the complaints I'm reading are. Not so much "We're entitled to more" but "With these changes, we no longer find value in doing LESS". There is a difference. And nobody else can make a value calculation for another consumer.

They don't WANT to "spend more". They don't want to march to Disney's drummer in that respect. And...ultimately..they don't have to. I'm not sure why that offends so many people...."

You are spot on here.

Yes, I agree, this is spot on! Pilferk said what I meant. We do not find Disney with the current system to be the kind of value that we want for our money. Others obviously do and will decide it's worth it to them. I'm not wrong for choosing to no longer spend my money at Disney, and they're not wrong for choosing to continue (or start) to spend their money at Disney. To each their own. And only time will tell if making these changes, and the resulting substitution of some visitors for different visitors, turns out to increase Disney's bottom line or not.

 

[gina2000]

If WDW's intent with FP+ is to get people out of lines and shopping and/or eating, then why did they homogenize the restaurant menus and duplicate the merchandise throughout the parks?

 

[morethananyonex]

If WDW's intent with FP+ is to get people out of lines and shopping and/or eating, then why did they homogenize the restaurant menus and duplicate the merchandise throughout the parks?

Probably because they still increase revenue but significantly lower their costs by scrapping tons of the previously unique offerings and pumping out lots of the same things.

What you mentioned is exactly why we don't bring home too many souvenirs anymore though. One item with the year on it and maybe another clothing item is all we really get now. In the past we would buy resort merchandise for each stay (why in the world does CR/BLT have nothing still??), ride/park merchandise, etc. Now I feel like it's the same stuff just in a differently themed store. That is the reason we don't spend as much, not because of the amount we're riding.

 

[Paula Sedley-Burke]

I use to love that they stocked different items in different parks. I would love to see this return! Also recall having a 'Dixie Landings' refillable mug lol. But I appreciate the economy of scales. One would like to think one napkin throughout the parks is keeping admission down....

But the multiple bands issued for spilt stays now that is a waste of money! We have 5 to customise each for 2 visits...seriously..

 

[MaryKatesMom]

If WDW's intent with FP+ is to get people out of lines and shopping and/or eating, then why did they homogenize the restaurant menus and duplicate the merchandise throughout the parks?

Exactly, and free dining eliminated some of the unusual appetizers at signature restaurants (a salmon dish in Le Cellier and a pie sampler at Rose and Crown if my memory serves). The word homogenize is good. Great for the first time visitor, not so hot for the repeat visitor which is my point.

That varies a lot by district. It's not forbidden here by any means. But whether it is advisable is an entirely different matter.

We planned to take my son out for a week his freshman year of high school and all the teachers (plus the district) were fine with it. At the last minute he decided to go out for the soccer team so stayed behind with my husband for 2 of those days. He still missed 3 days and it still wasn't a problem. I still don't know if we will do that when my daughter is in high school in 2 years. The risks are just a lot greater in high school that they might miss something critical.

It is expressly forbidden in our Private School. I'm paraphrasing but it says we give you the schedule over the summer and expect you to plan your vacations accordingly. Also, if you have above a 90 and miss LESS THAN 10 days you are exempt for the final from that class. Very motivating.

My DD's to travel soccer or basketball plus track in the spring. Holidays are no longer even safe. We cancelled our trip to Miami over Thanksgiving due to a sudden addition of a soccer tournament.

For many, many years we traveled the first full week of December and crowds everything was a walk on SM, Splash was always empty even with the water off and Speedway.

My concern is that with the addition of FP+, like Spaceship Earth. I know late in the afternoon when much of the park has moved farther in, it is worth it to walk back to the front of the park for a much shorter line SB line late afternoon and evening. Now with FP+ added it will drive guests onto that attraction throughout the day making the SB line NOT WORTH IT. That is my concern; SB lines will become so long that what I am willing to wait for will be negligible and diminishing the value of my vacation.

 

[Poly-Anna]

So in reading all of this I surmised that:

A) Universal Studios - with their 2.5 parks - is better because it is cheaper.



For some reason you only hear what you want to hear/read what you want to read. Let's do the math:

9 nights at Universal at Portofino Bay ($280 per night) is $2835.
9 nights at Disney's Beach Club ($424 per night) is $3816.
Both are garden view rooms and I am traveling in summer - 1 adult and 1 child age 10.

I do not need to rent a car at Universal as all parks, restaurants, mini golf, movie theatre, and now bowling are within walking distance of my hotel. Plus I can pool hop to all resort pools (which you cannot do at Disney). If I want to go to SeaWorld, Aquatica, or Wet N Wild there is a free shuttle from my hotel to those parks and back. Only transportation I pay for is the Mears shuttle to and from the airport for $56 round trip (1 adult, 1 child). Obviously plenty to occupy one on vacation for a week.

Tickets - a Universal annual pass is $298.19 (which includes multiple discounts for merchandise, hotel discounts, restaurants and more)
A 4-day base pass at Disney is $297.14
Do I really need to compare the two?

Since I have a 10 year old who has gone to Disney once or twice a year since he was born, we have now gotten to a point where we want a little bit more - more time at the pools, more exciting rides (Spider-Man and Transformers, awesome roller coasters), and a more relaxing vacation done at our pace with minimal wait. Plus more money in our pockets to spend on what we want. Will we go back to Disney, of course, just not until a few "bugs" are ironed out and it becomes once again the parks that we love and want to tour.

Remember, the only thing everyone is "entitled" to is their opinion, so respect mine and others' who might disagree with yours.

 

[palavra]

I don't think their value is as obvious as others, but I think they bring things to the table that one-time visitors do not. Gonna be a long time if ever before we know.

I agree. We moved to central Florida last summer and have since decided against WDW annual passes simply because FP+ is a real problem for off-site guests. We have annual passes for Sea World and busch Gardens this year and are enjoying them very much.

We love Disney and are sad that the changes have made the prospect of visiting the parks for locals more difficult. We get our Disney fix by visiting Downtown Disney, eating at the restaurants occasionally and going to the Boardwalk. Our family really hopes that Disney understands how they are alienating the locals and at least offers incentives for us to visti again in the future.

 

[aubriee]

To those canceling future trips because of FP+ - would you reconsider future visits if you could purchase additional FP+ for a fee, or if you received additional FP+ for staying on-site?

No! As AP holders we are already paying almost $2000.00 for three annual passes. We used to be able to get to the parks at rope drop, ride rides while the lines were short, gathering up fast passes every two hours to use late in the day and got to ride our favorites over and over. Once they started enforcing the fast pass return times, that strategy didn't work as well, but we were still able to use rope drop and fast passes to repeat our favorite rides. Now just because we choose to stay offsite, others are getting a 60 day jump on getting the good fast passes, fast passes are now tiered so that we can ride just one headliner per day, both stand by and FP lines are alot longer then they've ever been, so we are standing in alot more lines and getting less done. I read that annual passes just went up $25.00 yesterday, so in addition to getting less for our APs, we are paying more to get less. We also have AP's for Universal and always spend at least one night over there for their Express Pass. With their version of fast pass the lines are actually fast moving and the passes are for unlimited fast pass. If we want to ride Mummy ten times in a row we can. You are not limited to riding it once a day like you are Disney's headliners. Plus with my annual pass discounts, I can get a deluxe resort at Universal for about the price I would pay for a moderate using my Disney AP discount. I just can't see paying more to get less.

So, you don't mind paying for this in other places, but never at WDW because they are changing the rules? Fair enough, but this is what we in my family call "punishing yourself".

What we hate is we had already purchased our Annual Passes last May, before FP+ started. They took our money, then changed the rules. We feel like we wasted the money we paid for our AP's. Consequently no we will not be renewing them this year. With yesterday's price increase we would be paying more to get alot less.

I agree. We moved to central Florida last summer and have since decided against WDW annual passes simply because FP+ is a real problem for off-site guests. We have annual passes for Sea World and busch Gardens this year and are enjoying them very much.

Our family really hopes that Disney understands how they are alienating the locals and at least offers incentives for us to visti again in the future.

They have alienated not just the locals, but alot of annual pass holders that visit frequently from out of state. I know I'm usually down there 4-6 times a year. We are going back March 21-31st, just to get one last trip out of our annual passes, but after that have no plans to go back. I always have a next trip in the planning stages and frequently have two trips booked at the same time. For the first time since 2004, we won't have an annual pass. I have no desire to go back.

 

[TooExcitedCantSleep]

More proof is the recent price hike.......two in less than a year. Corporations that are hurting for business do not raise their prices.

I found this.....

Theme parks roar back to life, attendance jumps

RISING TICKET PRICES

Price of a one-day, one-park adult ticket (ages 10 and up) to Disneyland or California Adventure over the past three decades:

The 1980's

• 1981 - $10.75
• 1982 - $12.00
• 1983 - $12.00
• 1984 - $14.00
• 1985 - $17.95
• 1986 - $18.00
• 1987 - $21.50
• 1988 - $21.50
• 1989 - $21.50

The 1990's

• 1990 - $25.50
• 1991 - $27.50
• 1992 - $27.50
• 1993 - $28.75
• 1994 - $31.00
• 1995 - $31.00
• 1996 - $31.00
• 1997 - $31.00
• 1998 - $31.00
• 1999 - $39.00

The 2000's

• 2000 - $43.00
• 2001 - $43.00
• 2002 - $45.00
• 2003 - $47.00
• 2004 - $49.75
• 2005 - $56.00
• 2006 - $63.00
• 2007 - $66.00
• 2008 - $69.00
• 2009 - $72.00

The 2010's

• 2010 - $76.00
• 2011 - $80.00
• 2012 - $87.00
• 2013 - $95.00

While other companies retrenched, Disney made massive improvements to its empire.

Scrooge McDuck filled a money bin after turning his "Number One" dime into a fortune. The Disney parks, though, might be giving even McDuck a run for his money.

While other companies were retrenching and cutting back investment during the recession, Disney made massive and costly improvements to its global theme park empire. Last year, the company poured $3 billion into its theme parks, investments that are now paying off better than Pinocchio's wish upon a star.

Now, Disney parks are busting at the seams with visitors and well-positioned for what's expected to be one of the busiest summers for theme parks in years. Perhaps most important, attendance is soaring, even as Disney is raising ticket prices and dropping any semblance of discounting.

On Saturday, Disney announced ticket price increases for both its Disneyland Resort in California and Walt Disney World Resort in Florida. The price for a single-day, single-park ticket at Disneyland Resort hit $92 for guests ages 10 and above, a 5.7% increase from last year. Even the traditional discounts the company gave to Southern California residents for Disneyland, called 2fers, were abandoned this year for the first time in years.

"That's Disney's story. They have a lot of pricing power," says Michael Corty, analyst at Morningstar. "There's enough demand they must feel they don't have to (discount)."

Disney is leading the way in what's been a powerful rebound in the fortunes of theme parks. During the recession, visitors dropped off as consumers opted for cheaper putt-putt courses over a day at theme parks. But now, with consumer confidence on the upswing, visitors to theme parks are picking up, as well.

"If this continues, some of these parks will exceed all-time attendance levels this year," says Tuna Amobi of S&P Capital IQ. During the company's conference call announcing first-quarter results, Disney CEO Bob Iger said: "Walt Disney World and

Disneyland Resort both set new attendance records for the quarter."

That's not been missed by investors. Shares of all the major theme park operators -- Disney, Six Flags, Cedar Fair and Comcast -- are climbing. While the market for initial public offerings has been mixed this year, theme park operator Sea World successfully sold stock at $27 a share in April. Shares are up more than 30% since.

The theme park operators are seeing big gains for several reasons, including:

• Reaping benefits from investments. Disney is the poster child for making investments when the economy was soft. The company regained its pricing swagger in large part due to investments made -- at a time other companies hoarded cash and retrenched -- that are generating returns now.

Disney will have plowed $10 billion of expansion investment, not including maintenance, into its theme parks and cruise ships from 2009 to 2015, says Michael Morris of investment company Davenport. It added an entirely new "land" to its California Adventure theme park last year. That $1 billion investment has turned the park, once considered one of Disney's rare flops, into a success. California Adventure is now rivaling Disneyland for traffic, getting 45% of visitors, up from 25% before the investment. It also completely refreshed Fantasyland in Disney World in Florida and is building a new park in China.

The theme parks business at Disney, the gold standard for the industry, was a major driver of profit and growth during the recently reported first quarter. Revenue at Disney's Parks and Resorts unit jumped 14% at the theme parks unit, making Disney one of the few companies going beyond cost-cutting to find the growth that investors are craving. But higher prices, too, helped by pushing operating income up 73% for the segment.

"The transformation of Disney California Adventure at Disneyland Resort and the expansion of Fantasyland at our Magic Kingdom park in Florida highlight just a few of the major investments we have made to our parks around the globe," Tom Staggs, chairman Walt Disney Parks and Resorts, wrote in an e-mail. "We constantly challenge ourselves to connect our guests with beloved Disney characters and stories in ways that are more imaginative, more interactive and more immersive than ever before."

Even analysts have been surprised at how fast the big investments Disney has made in the parks have paid off, says Amobi of S&P Capital IQ. "They made investments in the recession," he says. "No one could see how things could come back so quickly."

It's a similar story with Comcast Universal, which invested heavily to build the Harry Potter theme park in Orlando. "They're putting up some of the best numbers they've ever put up," Amobi says.

• Finding ways to garner more revenue. Not only are theme parks weaning consumers off discounts, they're finding new ways to sell products to them. Higher average ticket prices, plus a bump in spending on discretionary items, such as food and merchandise, are fueling results.

The story is in the numbers. The average amount of money spent by a Disney park visitor rose 10% in the first calendar quarter of the year, Davenport's Morris says. That's a return to form for Disney not seen since the recession disrupted the industry in 2008 and 2009. Average spending per Disney visitor was up 7% in 2012, 8% in 2011, 3% in 2010 and declined 6% in 2009, Morris says.

• Shaking off the recession. Theme park operators in some cases resorted to extreme measures to endure the slack demand during the recession. In the case of Six Flags, the company loaded up with debt and the interest costs hurt the company's prospects, says Michael Broudo of Miller Tabak. "The debt had gotten out of control," he says.

After emerging from bankruptcy protection, the company has focused on its core business of offering thrill rides mostly to local visitors. The company isn't investing heavily in new rides -- it spends about 3% of revenue on capital expenditures -- so it's not expecting big gains in revenue, he says. But the company has a big opportunity to boost the bottom line by raising prices and pushing profitable annual passes, Broudo says.

Some see the recovery of theme parks as a case in which investing for the future has paid off. "A Disney vacation has been something of an aspirational good in a softer economy," Morris says. "Consumers have put off visits for a number of years, but we're gradually seeing people coming back to it." http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/business/2013/06/01/disney-theme-park-stocks/2343753/




Disney Parks are "bursting at the seams." Another Pareto Principle rule is that 80% of the complaints come from only 20% of your customers----that is another aspect to take into account. I do believe this because I saw one person here make multiple complaints to Disney about the same issue. It does look like Disney has written off certain kinds of complaints.

The price increase is only at the Disney World parks....there were no increases for Disneyland and DCA parks.

 

[TooExcitedCantSleep]

I am an Annual Passholder and Florida Resident who lives 5 minutes away. We have MagicBands and FP+ because of a 1-day stay on property in late 2013.

We go to the parks a few times per WEEK. We buy food and spend money there all of the time. To us, FP+ is actually an IMPROVEMENT of the FP- system, because it makes us want to go to the parks MORE.

Instead of dealing with the tourists snatching up the Toy Story Mania tickets, or Star Tours, or Soarin', or whatever is popular, we can book and plan our days in advance and go on the rides we want. If we miss one, we'll book it for the next week instead. It makes the parks smoother and easier for us to plan.

I think a lot of people don't realize that local residents are a BIG part of Disney's money and they want more of it. Anyone within a 3 hour drive is a "local". There are always discounted room deals, Florida resident passes, and perks for locals. FP+ benefits us greatly as well.... which is why all AP holders will get FP+ access and MagicBands for free this spring.

I guess what I am trying to say is that FP+ isn't bad for everyone, it's good for some people too (like the original poster states). People like US!

If you are a super planner who has "fast pass runners" who tries to go on every single ride in your short vacation, Disney wants you to STOP. If you want to do that, extend your vacation (so you can do all the Tier 1 rides you want) or just don't come at all.

Disney doesn't do things lightly. They are one of the biggest companies in the world. They are willing to cut you (the FP+ complainers who vow not to come anymore) out because they likely see bigger profits elsewhere. Being loyal does NOT equal being their best customers.... as illogical as that sounds, it's true. Their best customers SPEND MONEY rather than ride rides.

This is true----completely agree.

Although my post may have a little bit of an ascerbic tone, it's as good a theory as any to explain the 80/20 principle proferred by the OP. As I understand the principle, it states that a business should focus on pleasing the 20% of customers who provide 80% of the profits. We've been operating under the (possibly false) assumption that we die-hards are the 20%. But if that was true, why reallocate FPs from the die-hards to accomodate the casual "show up at 11am and can't get a TSMM FP" guests? The changes to FP+ clearly favor that group, so I posited that perhaps data exists showing that they are the 20% doing the most spending.

I believe Disney's 20% is DVC.....this is Disney's meat & potatoes and everyone else is just gravy.

The thing is that they succeeded in that goal and most of us are living proof BECAUSE Disney had a decades long track record of World Class customer service... going the extra FIVE miles to make everyone's stay as enjoyable as possible. FP+ is only one aspect of what many people perceive as a steady decline in that philosophy in recent years. CMs yelling at guests, etc. To heck with making people happy... we've already got their money. And if they never come back, who cares? There are millions more rubes out there who can be conned into spending thousands for their "once in a lifetime" vacation.

The customer service is great.....it's just not what it used to be and that is a management issue.

Mr. Spock says:

If someone pays for and uses an extra ticket to get extra FP+, more power to them. But, it seems to me, there is quite a moral gray area in exploiting a loophole like you described. The intent is for you to receive three FP+ with each paid admission. If you can redeem FP+ using ticket media that have not been "used" at the gate, then you could use them over and over again and not be out any extra money. Seems like that might be more than your "fair share."

Spot on.

The one thing I'd add is that, bottom line, the overwhelming majority of folk who go to Disney enjoy it. Otherwise, they wouldn't still be in business.

A lot of folk seem to think their personal opinion is somehow greatly important to Disney. It isn't.

Then there are the folk who go by "my family, friends and neighbors think FP+ sucks", and therefore very illogically are convinced that the rest of the world thinks it sucks. They don't.

So regardless of how it was, how it is, how it will be, and what folk on the boards (a very small microcosm of folk who go to Disney) personally think, what Disney's doing is working for them, or they wouldn't be doing it.

And good for Disney, as I enjoy my Disney vacations. And the better things go for them, the better things are likely to get in the parks, and the more I'll be able to enjoy them.

These are all good points.....I completely agree with this.

 

[mmmagique]

So in reading all of this I surmised that:

A) Universal Studios - with their 2.5 parks - is better because it is cheaper.



For some reason you only hear what you want to hear/read what you want to read. Let's do the math:

9 nights at Universal at Portofino Bay ($280 per night) is $2835.
9 nights at Disney's Beach Club ($424 per night) is $3816.
Both are garden view rooms and I am traveling in summer - 1 adult and 1 child age 10.

I do not need to rent a car at Universal as all parks, restaurants, mini golf, movie theatre, and now bowling are within walking distance of my hotel. Plus I can pool hop to all resort pools (which you cannot do at Disney). If I want to go to SeaWorld, Aquatica, or Wet N Wild there is a free shuttle from my hotel to those parks and back. Only transportation I pay for is the Mears shuttle to and from the airport for $56 round trip (1 adult, 1 child). Obviously plenty to occupy one on vacation for a week.

Tickets - a Universal annual pass is $298.19 (which includes multiple discounts for merchandise, hotel discounts, restaurants and more)
A 4-day base pass at Disney is $297.14
Do I really need to compare the two?

Since I have a 10 year old who has gone to Disney once or twice a year since he was born, we have now gotten to a point where we want a little bit more - more time at the pools, more exciting rides (Spider-Man and Transformers, awesome roller coasters), and a more relaxing vacation done at our pace with minimal wait. Plus more money in our pockets to spend on what we want. Will we go back to Disney, of course, just not until a few "bugs" are ironed out and it becomes once again the parks that we love and want to tour.

Remember, the only thing everyone is "entitled" to is their opinion, so respect mine and others' who might disagree with yours.

I think your AP discount will bring your room down even more. Just put APH in the promo-code box.

I love how clean and fun Universal is. It kind of reminds me of how Disney used to be.