Disney changing rules on resale purchases?

[hayesdvc]

As most of you die hards know, I am still trying to look for a DVC deal (but not too good since I have already lost one) for SSR.

I was told today by an agent there are "rumors" going around that Disney may change the rules again as to how points can be used on DVC resale purchases early in 2016 as they have before. I would need to purchase prior to that to be "grandfathered" in with the current rules.

Has anyone heard the same thing?

 

[disneynutz]

Anything can happen with the DVC, I never thought that they would restrict resale buyers and they did and owners just accepted the change.

 

[drusba]

Complete unknown. Sales agents have created far more changes of dire consequence rumored to be just around the corner than could possibly ever occur except that they failed to predict the only resale restriction that actually did occur.

 

[Lynne M]

The guides have been using that line for years. Years. There are always resale rules changes 'coming soon'.

 

[Minniesgal]

This old chestnut again!

In reality DVC is best used for DVC properties which they can't exclude resale from so I wouldn't worry

Remember you are talking to salesmen

 

[blondietink]

Buy where you want to stay, just in case.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

As most of you die hards know, I am still trying to look for a DVC deal (but not too good since I have already lost one) for SSR.

I was told today by an agent there are "rumors" going around that Disney may change the rules again as to how points can be used on DVC resale purchases early in 2016 as they have before. I would need to purchase prior to that to be "grandfathered" in with the current rules.

Has anyone heard the same thing?

I have lost count of how many times that rumor has gone around although not usually from resale agents. But any could use it to encourage a sale.

 

[MsTessP]

The only way that resale owners were "restricted" by those previous changes was to have them avoid very poor use of points. I actually share the opinion with others that this in reality was an actual favor for resale members. The fact is that resale members may use their points for all options - they just need to take the extra step of renting their points and using the cash from the rental for those option. The reason that members just "went along" with these changes was that these were considered "perks" that very clearly stated are not a part of ownership. These "perks" can be modified or removed completely from ALL members - resale and direct - at any time.
We could write a very informative booklet with all the so-called rumors (aka hard-nosed sales tactics) used by some "guides" in order to get a sale. Fortunately all salespersons at DVC do not resort to those tactics.

 

[Dean]

As most of you die hards know, I am still trying to look for a DVC deal (but not too good since I have already lost one) for SSR.

I was told today by an agent there are "rumors" going around that Disney may change the rules again as to how points can be used on DVC resale purchases early in 2016 as they have before. I would need to purchase prior to that to be "grandfathered" in with the current rules.

Has anyone heard the same thing?

There is no guarantee they'll grandfather existing resale buyers, I personally don't think they will. Even though some may tell you otherwise, they can't restrict one to home resort or direct use of the points for DVC resorts with this method though they might be able to with a VIP system.

Buy where you want to stay, just in case.

This can be a very expensive position and one that works for those that truly know where they want. The problem is that most resale buyers really don't know enough to truly do this correctly no matter how much they've investigated. IMO, undying in terms of resort and points is far better than overbuying assuming one gets a full sized contract.

The only way that resale owners were "restricted" by those previous changes was to have them avoid very poor use of points. I actually share the opinion with others that this in reality was an actual favor for resale members. The fact is that resale members may use their points for all options - they just need to take the extra step of renting their points and using the cash from the rental for those option. The reason that members just "went along" with these changes was that these were considered "perks" that very clearly stated are not a part of ownership. These "perks" can be modified or removed completely from ALL members - resale and direct - at any time.
We could write a very informative booklet with all the so-called rumors (aka hard-nosed sales tactics) used by some "guides" in order to get a sale. Fortunately all salespersons at DVC do not resort to those tactics.

I completely agree, they did future buyers a favor by defining the true value of DVC and by decreasing the resale prices somewhat.

 

[BWV Dreamin]

DVC/DVD can continue to grandfather and I do believe this will happen should these changes occur in 2016. This would be the most disruptive to current owners and not put any or work on CM's as most of them don't understand DVC anyway. Not to mention the booking website will have these changes integrated and one will be blocked by those new restrictions via programming the booking tool. Disney has to this point always grandfathered and I see no reason this won't continue.

 

[Dean]

DVC/DVD can continue to grandfather and I do believe this will happen should these changes occur in 2016. This would be the most disruptive to current owners and not put any or work on CM's as most of them don't understand DVC anyway. Not to mention the booking website will have these changes integrated and one will be blocked by those new restrictions via programming the booking tool. Disney has to this point always grandfathered and I see no reason this won't continue.

We only have one point in time to compare. I believe that creating multiple versions is more disruptive and more difficult for the system. There's certainly nothing to force them to and I do not believe complaints would be sufficient to affect the issue.

 

[supersnoop]

I haven't seen a single rumor include a change that could actually be enforce solely on resale buyers. The rumors are usually something about being limited to your home resort. But, legally, while that could happen, it would apply to ALL owners at that resort; it couldn't be limited to resale purchasers.

 

[ScubaCat]

I haven't seen a single rumor include a change that could actually be enforce solely on resale buyers. The rumors are usually something about being limited to your home resort. But, legally, while that could happen, it would apply to ALL owners at that resort; it couldn't be limited to resale purchasers.

That's exactly right. "Member Benefits" can be cancelled or modified at any time. Exchanging points to book in the Disney Collection, the Disney Cruise Line, the concierge collection, etc. is a member benefit. Booking at a different DVC resort is part of the ownership interest, NOT a "member benefit".

 

[JimMIA]

Even though some may tell you otherwise, they can't restrict one to home resort or direct use of the points for DVC resorts with this method though they might be able to with a VIP system.

Agree...not with this method. But...they certainly could do all sorts of things in terms of creating different classes of members, including VIP systems based on a certain level of ownership or a certain number of points purchased direct. Or, they could take a page from Wyndham's book and use points owned by Disney for the same purpose.

For example, DVD could take piles of points they own at different resorts and package them together in something like Wyndham's Club Access. Owners would have to purchase those points direct, of course, but they would own at each resort in the pool of points and therefore would have 11-month booking at all of those resorts. With Wyndham, frankly, that's not that big of a deal in most cases. But with DVC it certainly would be for a lot of the WDW resorts.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

Agree...not with this method. But...they certainly could do all sorts of things in terms of creating different classes of members, including VIP systems based on a certain level of ownership or a certain number of points purchased direct. Or, they could take a page from Wyndham's book and use points owned by Disney for the same purpose.

For example, DVD could take piles of points they own at different resorts and package them together in something like Wyndham's Club Access. Owners would have to purchase those points direct, of course, but they would own at each resort in the pool of points and therefore would have 11-month booking at all of those resorts. With Wyndham, frankly, that's not that big of a deal in most cases. But with DVC it certainly would be for a lot of the WDW resorts.

I don't really see how they could do that. I'm not aware of how the Wyndham program works but what you suggest would almost certainly be circumventing the home resort priority because it's likely that there would be resorts those "pool" owners would book over others. Since it's deeded real estate interest in a resort that determines the booking time frame I have a hard time thinking it could be done that way.

 

[JimMIA]

I don't really see how they could do that. I'm not aware of how the Wyndham program works but what you suggest would almost certainly be circumventing the home resort priority because it's likely that there would be resorts those "pool" owners would book over others. Since it's deeded real estate interest in a resort that determines the booking time frame I have a hard time thinking it could be done that way.

I'm not a lawyer, so I can't speak to the legalities of DVC deeds. But in Wyndham, the Wyndham Club Access contracts are deeded to each of the resorts involved and those contract owners enjoy home resort booking with all of the points ... at every resort in their contract.

I'm not sure how -- or even IF -- such a strategy could work for DVC, but it's obvious that other systems have found ways to create legitimately advantageous ownership options for direct purchases.

DVC has not -- I suspect because they haven't really tried.

If DVC really wanted to make direct purchase legitimately desireable, they would have only to look at their competitors for many, many ideas.

As Dean has been saying for years, there are many more things DVC could do to enhance their sales success.

 

[Dean]

Agree...not with this method. But...they certainly could do all sorts of things in terms of creating different classes of members, including VIP systems based on a certain level of ownership or a certain number of points purchased direct. Or, they could take a page from Wyndham's book and use points owned by Disney for the same purpose.

For example, DVD could take piles of points they own at different resorts and package them together in something like Wyndham's Club Access. Owners would have to purchase those points direct, of course, but they would own at each resort in the pool of points and therefore would have 11-month booking at all of those resorts. With Wyndham, frankly, that's not that big of a deal in most cases. But with DVC it certainly would be for a lot of the WDW resorts.

I think a VIP system is one way and really the only way I can think of they could do this.

I don't really see how they could do that. I'm not aware of how the Wyndham program works but what you suggest would almost certainly be circumventing the home resort priority because it's likely that there would be resorts those "pool" owners would book over others. Since it's deeded real estate interest in a resort that determines the booking time frame I have a hard time thinking it could be done that way.

By rule they have 100% control in this area. In a sense I agree with you but the reality is that several other FL based companies have made changes that do affect the reservation options of other owners. I'm not sure Wyndham is the best example since they've had a VIP system for much of their existence. Bluegreen doesn't have a home resort priority (all can reserve at 11 months) but they also have a VIP system. Their system allows one to go on a waitlist based on what VIP level they are. Even though the reservations aren't made until 11 months out, one can go on the wait list and get those reservations over other owners up to 4 months over non VIP owners. I'm not sure how long they've had that compared to their existence but I do know they created a new upper category during the time I've owned giving those new upper level members priority access. Marriott changed their weeks reservation system to allow multiple reservations (concurrent or consecutive) to be made a month ahead of single week owners/reservers. Their VIP system for their trust and destinations points was in effect at the onset but has recently been expanded with additional upper categories.

So since others have done it that are based in FL, I'm going to say they can give priority access based on a VIP system even if it gives some priority over others at 11 months.

 

[JimMIA]

I'm not sure Wyndham is the best example since they've had a VIP system for much of their existence.

True, but their VIP levels have changed at least once recently. Some folks who were once VIPs no longer are, and others now find themselves at a lower level than they enjoyed before.

The Wyndham Access program referred to above is a relatively new type of ownership for Wyndham, but not the only new type of preferential system applied to already-existing resorts.

They also have Presidential Reserve, which are specific units bookable mostly only by owners of Presidential Reserve points (think DVC making GV's available only to a new class of ownership). Only if those villas are not taken close to arrival do they become available to the common folk.

They also now have Wyndham Club Pass, which took many Worldmark properties away from Wyndham owners and made them available only to Club Pass owners. At the same time, they added a bunch of Worldmark resorts which had not previously been available to Wyndham owners.

So that's at least three new preferential systems Wyndham has put in within the last 3-4 years, in addition to their VIP program -- and all of them offer booking advantages over "regular" owners, including resale purchasers.

Much of the availability in those new programs came from points Wyndham has "taken back" via foreclosure or deeds in lieu of foreclosure. Other points come from other timeshares they have purchased in numerous locations around the country during the recent recession (Reunion, Smuggler's Notch, their NYC, Chicago, and San Francisco properties, etc, etc.). And now, they have even started a program called "Ovation" to repurchase points from current owners at a decent price.

All of the points from those various sources go into one of the three programs above and are sold only direct. So, rather than DVC using ROFR only occasionally, Wyndham is actively buying back points to repackage and sell with new booking advantages to the new buyers.

Wyndham is a Florida company, so I'm sure their approaches fit comfortably within Florida law.

 

[Dean]

Wyndham is a Florida company, so I'm sure their approaches fit comfortably within Florida law.

Marriott & Bluegreen are also Florida based.

 

[blondietink]

Starwood timeshares have a system where is you buy a property via resale at any resort other than a mandatory resort (of which there are very few), you can only use your resale at the resort you bought into. The only people who can stay at other resorts within the Starwood system are the people who bought from the developer directly. Now that the Starwood timeshare system has been bought out by Interval, it remains to be seen what will happen, but most people are saying it should remain as is.