Disney Called Today Tips will not be cut out of DDP!~looks like they lied:(

[clkelley]

Jim several posters have confirmed the proposed contract:

3) Add an automatic gratuity for guests use the DDE card.

On that one they are cutting out 2% gratuity with a lot of patrons. We generally just add back the 20% when an automatic tip is not added.

We were a party of 6 at Planet Hollywood last May using DDE. They added an automatic 18% gratuity. We left nothing extra. If they had not added the auto gratuity they would have gotten the discount back. I told the manager as such and he thanked me for my comment.

 

[Lewisc]

Many posters do the exact same thing you do, add back the discount as a TIP.

The union wouldn't be negotiating for an "automatic tip" for DDE guests, and for parties of 6 or more, if those groups were consistently tipping 18% +.

Last year I ate at Chefs. Half our group was on the DDP and we ordered wine. The server could have added the 18% automatic gratuity but left the tip off one of the checks. He made a point of telling us that. The server, correctly, assumed we'd be tipping more than 18%.

On that one they are cutting out 2% gratuity with a lot of patrons. We generally just add back the 20% when an automatic tip is not added.

We were a party of 6 at Planet Hollywood last May using DDE. They added an automatic 18% gratuity. We left nothing extra. If they had not added the auto gratuity they would have gotten the discount back. I told the manager as such and he thanked me for my comment.

 

[nbodyhome]

If Disney continues to do the dining plan, I'd prefer to see the price raised to include the tips (to make sure the servers are covered).

 

[DisneyGirl4188]

If Disney continues to do the dining plan, I'd prefer to see the price raised to include the tips (to make sure the servers are covered).

Me too.

I just want them to keep the plan.

 

[JimMIA]

If Disney continues to do the dining plan, I'd prefer to see the price raised to include the tips (to make sure the servers are covered).

Be careful what you wish for...

Lewisc's math above looks pretty accurate to me, and if he's right, you're looking at $46.99-48.99 price to accomplish the same thing as eliminating the included gratuity.

 

[nbodyhome]

Be careful what you wish for...

Lewisc's math above looks pretty accurate to me, and if he's right, you're looking at $46.99-48.99 price to accomplish the same thing as eliminating the included gratuity.

Those who are dining would be paying that much anyway, if they are tipping properly.

I don't personally know how Disney is making much money on the dining plan (except that a lot of meals sometimes stay behind, I know people who have not used up everything they've paid for). But the dining plan is $39.00. If a travel agent booked it, then that is $4.00 gone off the top. Someone having a $50.00 meal, that is $9.00 tipped to the server that Disney has to pay. That doesn't include snack, counter service, and the meal itself. Disney also pays commissions to agents at DRC for booking well, so that eats away from the amount also.

Either way - I'd like to make sure the waiters are taken care of. They do VERY well on the dining plan, but it might go completely the opposite way if the tips were removed.

 

[JimMIA]

Those who are dining would be paying that much anyway, if they are tipping properly.

Oh, I don't know... We're currently paying $38.99 and we typically leave $5 extra tip (often more) to bring the total tip to or above 20%. We also order desserts we have no intention of eating to drive up the total tip for the server. They work hard for their money, and we want to be sure they get it. With 2A/1C, we're only paying about $42 or so per adult now. That's a long way from $49.

However, many people tip 15% (which is an okay tip) and feel that 18% is generous...at $38.99. Some (not me) think 18% is too high.

Others think they should pay the tip based on what they paid for DDP, not on the make-believe prices on the menu. In other words, they agree with the approach the non-Disney restaurants take -- the meal is $25.00, the tip is $4.50, no matter what the menu price is. I don't agree with that, but there are those who do.

I don't personally know how Disney is making much money on the dining plan.

I don't think they are, or ever intended to. But I think they'd like to make it revenue-neutral, or maybe turn a small profit if they could.

If you go back a few years in WDW history, you'll recall a few inconvenient hurricanes. That's what spawned the DDP, not the prospect of getting rich in the restaurants. DDP was originally, and still is mostly, a hotel promotion -- not a dining promotion. When the Orlando area tourism industry was dying two years ago, DDP allowed Disney to fare much better than anyone else. DDP is just one of several initiatives Disney has tried (DME is another) to lure people onsite and keep them there.

We tend to evaluate this issue on the impact on us personally, or in terms of our concern for the CMs. Most of us who go to WDW regularly have a soft spot in our hearts for "our" CMs. But to Disney, this is just an MBA money puzzle. What's the impact on revenue? What's the impact on income? As long as DDP offers better revenue and income, we'll have DDP. The instant some other program offers a better return, DDP will be history.

 

[nbodyhome]

If you go back a few years in WDW history, you'll recall a few inconvenient hurricanes. That's what spawned the DDP, not the prospect of getting rich in the restaurants. .

I live in the Orlando area. Being that I've been through the hurricanes, I also remember how slow it's been before them. Late August/early September has always been slow at the resorts, and usually there have been terrific discounts for passholders and Florida residents.

There couldn't have been a free DDP before 2005 because there wasn't a DDP at all before then. There was a Silver Plan, a Gold Plan, etc. From what I personally understand, giving the plan free is to get guests to buy it the next time (and many, many do). And then the guests stay onsite and don't go elsewhere. So in the end, even if Disney makes no money off the dining plan, it's a way for guests to stay onsite - pay money for the hotel rooms and tickets, etc.

I don't agree with paying on the $25.00 or so on the menu. I would expect to pay between 15 and 20% tip on the menu prices if paying cash (which I usually do), whether the prices are higher than real-world prices - which they are - or not. Sometimes the servers do get double tipped now because guests don't realize the tips are included. I'd rather the servers get extra instead of none because some guests don't give them anything at all.

 

[suzannews]

Interesting. If it's permissible for you to do so, can you tell us whether you have -- in fact, not rumor -- been presented with a contract to vote on which eliminates the included 18% gratuity in the DDP?

Don't put yourself in jeopardy, but if it's okay, we'd all appreciate whatever you can tell us. Thanks, and we'll take care of you guys either way!

Jim several posters have confirmed the proposed contract:
1) Got rid of the included gratuity for DDP guests
2) Now add an automatic gratuity for parties of 6 or more (currently 8 or more)
3) Add an automatic gratuity for guests use the DDE card.

JimMIA,

I'm not sure what I am aloud to say and not say but it looks like Lewisc has some good information.

 

[JimMIA]

JimMIA,

I'm not sure what I am aloud to say and not say but it looks like Lewisc has some good information.

Thanks Suzanne. We'll just have to see what happens. Hopefully it will work out for all of us.

 

[surfergrl31]

In my email to disney I explained to them that with changes in the dinning plan, it would no longer be a deal just really an easy way to vacation. I pointed out to them and the castmemeber I talked to with all of the resorts in the area, usually much more price friendly, this is only going to result in me spending more of my money offsite. I can get better quality and better quantity for my money off site and see some sites I have never bothered seeing in fear I would take away from my disney vacation.

IMO I would like to see an actual breakdown instead of percentage to tip my servers. For example if my dinning plan cost a total of 1000 for my entire trip, then 400 of that would be for tipping (I am making rough estimates here so no flaming). Then I could decide at each meal if the service was worth 18% or on like the one occasion I had at Coral Reef I would choose to pay only 15% reflecting the service. The end result the servers that were outstanding would benefit and at the end of my vacation if I still had money left over that I didn't tip (probably wouldn't happen) disney would just pocket a profit.

I know disney is always changing things to make it more appealing for people to stay on property, but this is one time where "if it's not broke, don't fix it!"

Does anyone know how soon this decision might be made? I am hoping for an extra trip in Feb. 08, but this might send me to thinking about renting a house instead.

 

[bicker]

I'd expect to see a definitive answer provided in June or July, when MYW packages for 2008 are released to the public.

 

[RachelEllen]

The other advantage to removing the gratuity is that it's an incentive for people to order less. Disney is not only making back the money they are not spending on a tip, by making people 15 - 20% responsible for what they order, they can assume a significant decrease in people trying to 'get the most' for the plan.

 

[Katiebell]

The other advantage to removing the gratuity is that it's an incentive for people to order less. Disney is not only making back the money they are not spending on a tip, by making people 15 - 20% responsible for what they order, they can assume a significant decrease in people trying to 'get the most' for the plan.

Absolutely, very good point. Not only will people think twice about ordering all the courses, appetizer and dessert if they are not really hungry enough to eat them all, they might also become more price conscious of the entrees if they are going to have to pay the tip OOP. If I don't order the appetizer, and DH doesn't order the dessert and we share those two courses, and we both get pasta or chicken for $15 instead of steak for $28, then we still used our TS credits but Disney saves money on what they served us, and we will pay much less OOP for the tip. Then the DDP becomes less and less of a good deal, and I don't know if the convenience alone is worth the cost.

 

[calypso*a*go-go]

Then the DDP becomes less and less of a good deal, and I don't know if the convenience alone is worth the cost.

Exactly!!! Right now most of the cost savings comes from ordering everything that is allowed and being able to pick from the more expensive menu items. If you don't do that, you might be in a situation where you barely break even using the DDP (which is probably what Disney intended from the get-go!). I'm sure when the plan was envisioned no one realized how quickly people would find so many loop holes that would allow getting even more value out of it (sharing, using child credits for adult meals, etc). I personally feel this is one marketing scheme that really backfired.

 

[nbodyhome]

I don't see many guests changing what value they would want to get with the dining plan. If I was paying for it (and I don't), then I would still want to order more expensive items to make up for the cost.

 

[JimMIA]

Exactly!!! Right now most of the cost savings comes from ordering everything that is allowed and being able to pick from the more expensive menu items.

I look at DDP "value" completely differently. I don't compare menu prices to DDP costs for two reasons: 1) the menu prices are significantly overpriced to begin with, and 2) we would never order an appy, entree and desert at every TS meal. To me, the value to my family is the cost of what we would actually spend paying cash minus the cost of the DDP. If DDP costs less than our anticipated cash expenditures, it's a bargain. If not, it's not a bargain and we don't buy it.

Realistically, paying OOP, we don't eat CS at all and we don't snack much, so I don't consider those costs. Although some folks use the full array of menu prices to DDP and figure they save enough to retire the national debt, I figure we save $100 or so on each 4-5 day trip. By save, I mean we actually lay out fewer dollars than we would have without DDP.

I don't think cost is the only benefit to us -- we also enjoy the convenience, the ability to try other restaurants we haven't tried, and the fact that the dining is somewhat upgraded from what we would usually do at WDW. If the tip is removed and the savings becomes a net cost, we'll have to evaluate whether the net cost is worth the intangibles. For us, I suspect it will not be worth it.

We'll just have to wait and see what happens and then re-do the math.

 

[bicker]

Then the DDP becomes less and less of a good deal, and I don't know if the convenience alone is worth the cost.

However, that's really the point: Right now I believe the Dining Plan is under-priced. The magic is how Disney will increase prices/reduce value provided just-the-right-amount to bring the price better in line with the value.

 

[Katiebell]

However, that's really the point: Right now I believe the Dining Plan is under-priced. The magic is how Disney will increase prices/reduce value provided just-the-right-amount to bring the price better in line with the value.

I agree that the Dining Plan is under-priced if it is used wisely and people don't have leftover credits at the end of their trips -- if it isn't used efficiently, it can end up being very costly. However, it is being marketed as a way to "save up to 40% on dining". The lower that savings is, the closer the guest comes to the break-even point, the less appealing the plan becomes. The dining plan does have it's downsides; it makes the guests sort of a captive audience at WDW, because if you leave and go offsite, you may waste credits for which you've already paid. Without the plan, you can eat what you want when you want (provided you can get into a restaurant), and there is no obligation to use up all of your credits so you don't waste your money. If you can't get into a restaurant or can't find anything that's appealing to you, then there are some great CS restaurants, or if you have transportation, you could go offsite -- and Disney doesn't want that!

If the included gratuities are dropped, then the cash value of the plan for the customer is lower (OOP cost will be higher), and they will also have to carry cash and calculate tips, reducing the convenience factor (another significant value of the plan). DL has a dining plan of sorts, or at least they used to -- but it was something like pay $20 for $25 worth of meal vouchers, and there was no change given -- it's probably much closer to equal for cost/value, and not popular at all. Hardly anyone likes it or wants to bother with it, because it's just not worth the hassle.

 

[JimMIA]

...The dining plan does have it's downsides; it makes the guests sort of a captive audience at WDW, because if you leave and go offsite, you may waste credits for which you've already paid. Without the plan, you can eat what you want when you want (provided you can get into a restaurant), and there is no obligation to use up all of your credits so you don't waste your money. If you can't get into a restaurant or can't find anything that's appealing to you, then there are some great CS restaurants, or if you have transportation, you could go offsite -- and Disney doesn't want that!

That's not a downside, Katie! That's the whole point of DDP!