dining dress code

[extechie rbd/wdt]

Makayna,

Whilst i completely agree with and admire your attitude towards following the rules and requests that DCL ask, you really are flogging a dead horse. I've given up.

Some people are selfish and I will say ignorant, and they will try exploit loop holes and argue that a request is only a suggestion until the death.

Until DCL strictly enforce their rules and request's then people will object and try to either find way's to justify their disobedience or just plain ignore them.

Even if DCL do start to impose a "if you wear shorts, tank tops, jeans etc" you will not be admitted into the restaurant's policy, can you imagine the amount of people that will be complaining as they didn't know, the print was too small etc.....

Now I just think anyone who is offended by shorts, tank tops, jeans etc in the dining rooms should avoid a DCL cruise.

Ex Techie

 

[MisterOJ]

I personally could care less. I just like to argue.

I do too.... but only when I'm right.

 

[MisterOJ]

Makayna,

Whilst i completely agree with and admire your attitude towards following the rules and requests that DCL ask, you really are flogging a dead horse. I've given up.

Some people are selfish and I will say ignorant, and they will try exploit loop holes and argue that a request is only a suggestion until the death.

Until DCL strictly enforce their rules and request's then people will object and try to either find way's to justify their disobedience or just plain ignore them.

Even if DCL do start to impose a "if you wear shorts, tank tops, jeans etc" you will not be admitted into the restaurant's policy, can you imagine the amount of people that will be complaining as they didn't know, the print was too small etc.....

Now I just think anyone who is offended by shorts, tank tops, jeans etc in the dining rooms should avoid a DCL cruise.

Ex Techie

Just a quick question for you...

Look at post 32.

See the difference in the way DCL words their dress codes for Palo and the Main Dining Rooms? Do you think DCL did that accidentally or by design?

 

[Makayna]

Because there is a difference between a request and a rule. At least to me. If you want to adhere to every request that is made to you, that is your prerogative.

I think DCL knew what they were doing when they made it a clear rule that there are no shorts in Palo, but merely requested it in the MDRs. They clearly want to give people the choice.

This next bit is all my conjecture. They also want to keep it somewhat classy,
even in the MDRs. To me, since it is requested that there are no shorts in the dining room, I read between the lines for that to mean, "Look, we're going to allow shorts, but keep them nice, please." I may be way off base, but based on what I have seen through personal experience on my past two Disney cruises, I think that is pretty close to the truth.

Bottom line, DCL has made it optional to wear shorts by stating that as a request. They allow loads and loads of people to dress this way cruise after cruise after cruise. If that bothers you, perhaps you should choose a different, more stodgy cruise line.

My biggest deal is, where does it stop? Not EVERYONE is going to interpret the request as "please dress nicely for dinner, and if you do wear shorts, please make sure they're nice ones." Many people will inevitably see others wearing nice, dressy shorts, and will interpret that as, "I can wear whatever I want" and the "classiness" is completely lost. Just like the teen room, the tween room, the lab and the club ages. Because DCL doesn't enforce the rules, very few 9-10 year olds want to stay in the lab because they let 3 and 4 year olds in there. And then safety becomes an issue as well (letting 13 year olds hang out with 17 year olds CAN sometimes cause issues, but since the ages aren't enforced, it happens).

What I'm saying is, when the rule, policy, request or whatever it is is broken, it causes this muddled mess that makes it IMPOSSIBLE to enforce ANY sort of spirit of the rule or request at all! So instead of only classy shorts, they get people wearing whatever the heck they want! Instead of just 11-13 year olds in Edge, they get 10 year olds and perhaps the occasional 9 year old because they can't enforce the policies they put in place!

I really could care less if people wear shorts to dinner. Hell, I could care less if they're wearing less than that! I've seen dresses with ladies' "ladies" hanging out of them, but according to DCL's guidelines, showing cleavage is perfectly acceptable, but to most, that's more offensive than seeing somebody's shin! So I agree with you there. But at the same time, if we don't all follow the "requests" then it ALL gets muddled and the point that DCL was trying to make when they made the request/rule is completely lost. And THAT is what I find really sad, and in some cases, dangerous.

 

[extechie rbd/wdt]

Just a quick question for you...

Look at post 32.

See the difference in the way DCL words their dress codes for Palo and the Main Dining Rooms? Do you think DCL did that accidentally or by design?

I have read the entire thread and many others about the same subject.
However DCL state they have a zero tolerance policy for shorts and jeans etc etc etc in Palo and Remy.

They also request that shorts are not worn in the restaurants'.

http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/request
"an act of asking politely or formally for something:"

If you chose to ignore a polite or formal request then sir, you are being ignorant.
You are deliberately choosing to ignore the owner's or managers wishes. (DCL)

Just because they allow it to happen, doesn't make it right.

Ex Techie

 

[TLSnell1981]

Shorts are completely allowed. You will see plenty of people wearing them - children and adults.

For some reason, DCL requests no shorts in the dining room, but it is a request only and your boys (or husband) will not be either turned away or even look out of place in the main dining rooms if they choose to wear shorts.

 

[extechie rbd/wdt]

misterOJ,

Please accept my apology as I didn't mean to say you were ignorant, just that you are misunderstanding the meaning of the word.


My post should read:

If you chose to ignore a polite or formal request then sir, you are misunderstanding the meaning of the word.
You are deliberately choosing to ignore the owner's or managers wishes. (DCL)

Just because they allow it to happen, doesn't make it right.

Ex Techie

 

[MisterOJ]

I have read the entire thread and many others about the same subject.
However DCL state they have a zero tolerance policy for shorts and jeans etc etc etc in Palo and Remy.

They also request that shorts are not worn in the restaurants'.

http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/request
"an act of asking politely or formally for something:"

If you chose to ignore a polite or formal request then sir, you are being ignorant.
You are deliberately choosing to ignore the owner's or managers wishes. (DCL)

Just because they allow it to happen, doesn't make it right.

Ex Techie

If DCL really didn't want anyone wearing shorts at dinner, they would simply make it the same policy as Palo and Remy.

It is fully within DCL's power to set whatever dress code the company wants. They choose to request no shorts - leaving it up to the consumer to decide. If they wanted no shorts, they could make it so. Since they choose otherwise, it is completely logical to conclude that they don't mind shorts - at least to a certain degree.

DCL knows what is going on in its dining rooms. If they felt the atmosphere of the past several years was inappropriate, they would take steps to change it. If anything, the main dining rooms have gotten more casual - not less.

You can choose to see it however you like. I think my view reflects how DCL does, since they obviously are not taking any measures to change how people choose to dress in the MDRs.

 

[MisterOJ]

misterOJ,

Please accept my apology as I didn't mean to say you were ignorant, just that you are misunderstanding the meaning of the word.


My post should read:

If you chose to ignore a polite or formal request then sir, you are misunderstanding the meaning of the word.
You are deliberately choosing to ignore the owner's or managers wishes. (DCL)

Just because they allow it to happen, doesn't make it right.

Ex Techie

No apology necessary. No offense taken. lol

 

[Makayna]

If anything, the main dining rooms have gotten more casual - not less.

Exactly!!!

 

[MisterOJ]

Exactly!!!

I know it's not for everyone, but I am glad for it. I go on vacation to relax and have fun. I don't want to worry about dressing up and whatnot. Now, I'm not going to look like a slob, mind you. I will be perfectly presentable, but casual.

I know that's not to some people's liking, but I think this is the way most people feel about vacations. And I think DCL realizes that. That's why they give people the option of wearing shorts to dinner, because a good (maybe large) portion of their consumer base likes it.

I don't look for DCL to change its dress code so long as its model right now stays profitable and the majority of people cruising are happy with the way it is.

 

[extechie rbd/wdt]

DCL has rules for CM's, one of them is:

Safety
Show
Courtesy
Efficiency

But they should read (IMO and experience)

Safety
Profit
Show
Courtesy
Efficiency

But that's and entirely different thread!

DCL have rules and if Guests ignore them, then they chose to ignore the disobedience.
Trip reports and cruise rating's take precedence over their wishes as it reflects in their pocket and cruise ratings.

It's all about the dollar and if people do not complain and not come back then nothing will change.

Ex Techie

 

[TLSnell1981]

I know it's not for everyone, but I am glad for it. I go on vacation to relax and have fun. I don't want to worry about dressing up and whatnot. Now, I'm not going to look like a slob, mind you. I will be perfectly presentable, but casual.

I know that's not to some people's liking, but I think this is the way most people feel about vacations. And I think DCL realizes that. That's why they give people the option of wearing shorts to dinner, because a good (maybe large) portion of their consumer base likes it.

I don't look for DCL to change its dress code so long as its model right now stays profitable and the majority of people cruising are happy with the way it is.

You have to be in shorts to relax and have fun... really?

 

[lbuher]

You have to me in shorts to relax and have fun... really?

Both my DH and DS do, yes.

 

[MisterOJ]

You have to me in shorts to relax and have fun... really?

Do I have to? No, not really. Some nights I wear dress slacks to dinner. Some nights I wear khaki pants. Other nights I wear khaki shorts. For me, I find shorts the most relaxing of those three options though. And I'm glad DCL allows me to choose which I want to wear to dinner.

 

[Makayna]

I think my view reflects how DCL does, since they obviously are not taking any measures to change how people choose to dress in the MDRs.

Just because they're not enforcing their policies doesn't mean that they feel exactly the way you do. If they did, they wouldn't list not wearing shorts at all on their website and in cruise documents. They would word it differently so it is understood that guests are to dress nicely for dinner, not just "please do not wear shorts." But, they listed it the way they listed it on purpose. I believe that they DON'T want guests to wear shorts to dinner! But that they allow it in order to not appear stuffy, and to encourage repeat business. If they were SO rigid on that fact, then they would lose repeat business and would get a reputation for being pretentious and snobby. And that would be far worse to them than having some of their patrons wear shorts to dinner.

However, I believe that their NOT enforcing rules is going to one day bite them in the you know where. Perhaps not with dining attire, but more likely some other rule that they choose not to enforce, such as letting infants in swim diapers in the regular pools or allowing 3 year olds to hang out in the same place as 10 year olds. A 3 year old is at a completely different stage mentally, emotionally and physically than a 10 year old! And the fact that those two groups are somewhat combined is ridiculous to me! Both of those present major safety hazards, and yet DCL chooses not to enforce those policies as well.

Yes, shorts to dinner is a more "benign" breaking of the rules. But what it does is it sets a tone. It sets the tone that DCL does not and will not enforce the policies that they have in place. And I really don't think that tone is a positive or beneficial one. It is MUCH easier to continue to enforce rules and procedures than it is to all of a sudden start enforcing them (as DCL is very certainly going to find out on August 2nd ). And that's partially why I think they DON'T enforce the no shorts at dinner policy. They haven't enforced it up to this point, so enforcing it now would have FAR more negative consequences than if they'd simply followed the procedure since the beginning. And they don't want to deal with the consequences of tightening their enforcement of the procedures, so they continue to allow the breaking of said procedures. And one day, they're going to get bit because of it. Most likely, it will NOT be because of allowing people to wear shorts in the dining room, but perhaps it will be that issue (for instance, if something were to happen such as what girl_barrie described and a man's private parts were exposed to numerous children and DCL did nothing to stop it from continuing night after night after night at dinner. ).

The point is, if DCL enforced ALL of their rules and policies, or worded them better to describe how they actually feel about a specific topic, then they wouldn't have the issues that they do have. And cruising would be more enjoyable for all.

 

[extechie rbd/wdt]

I guess not wearing shorts in a restaurant after 6pm is all dependent on your upbringing?!?

I wonder what Walt would say......

 

[Cerberus9]

This is a pointless argument. You can't force people to have class and manners if they don't want to. The best you can do is try to instill these character traits in your children.

 

[MisterOJ]

DCL has rules for CM's, one of them is:

Safety
Show
Courtesy
Efficiency

But they should read (IMO and experience)

Safety
Profit
Show
Courtesy
Efficiency

But that's and entirely different thread!

DCL have rules and if Guests ignore them, then they chose to ignore the disobedience.
Trip reports and cruise rating's take precedence over their wishes as it reflects in their pocket and cruise ratings.

It's all about the dollar and if people do not complain and not come back then nothing will change.

Ex Techie

And I think that is exactly why they simply request folks not wear shorts instead of banning them outright. It's better for the bottom line if they allow them, so they do. That way, they can cater to both sides of the coin. The people that want a more upscale dinner see the request as meaning "there will be no shorts" and the people that want a more casual dinner see it as meaning, "it's okay to wear shorts."

 

[chaoskids]

We've been on two Disney Cruises: in 2008 and 2010 and we will be cruising on the Dream in 2012. I really haven't posted to any of the debates on the shorts or no shorts in the dining room threads. However, when reading about the promotional materials depicting people in shorts in the dining rooms, does anyone think they could be breakfast or lunch pictures??