Deal reached to extend The Patriot Act: Does this concern you?

CheshireVal said:
I posted the link to the actual Patriot Act. You can read for yourself the changes it has made to evidence gathering prodedures. I don't know how much more clearly I can state that. :confused3 I guess maybe you're just defining civil liberties differently than I do if you believe that it has changed nothing along those lines.
You contended that the PA has eliminated civil liberties, but you are unwilling/unable to provide any evidence to support that. Your posting a link to the PA is not evidence of the elimination of civil liberties. Try this: post one link to anything that clearly demonstrates that a U.S. citizen has lost a civil liberty or right as a direct result of the PA. Not someone "saying the PA is bad", but evidence of an actual loss of liberty or right. Should be simple enough to do given your mountain of evidence.
I would be happy to post our evidence files, but it's gathered using internet and library database searches and then cutting and pasting into MS Word. If you're really that curious about policy debate, I'd recommend looking at planetdebate.com or cross-x.com . Many of the typical arguments are listed there. Schools are always looking for coaches who can start up solid debate programs. Maybe you'd be interested in helping out where you live!
Bottom line: you have nothing to support your contentions and can only deflect, feint and retreat. No one has lost a single civil liberty or right as a result of the PA. You don't like the PA and that's fine. There are lots of laws I don't like. Difference is I don't try to wage a fear campaign based on wild speculation with no basis in reality against those laws. Just something to consider.
 
The PATRIOT Act allows law enforcement to discriminate based on race.

Mariano-Forentino Cuellar, Asistant Professor at Stanford Law School, 2003 (Spring, Harvard Latino Law Review, 6 Harv. Latino L. Rev. 9, p.L/N)

Yet this injury is small in comparison to those experienced by people subjected to detention, searches, and surveillance under the USA Patriot Act. The Act permits individuals to be targeted, in part, because of race and subjected to a government search of their homes with little judicial [*37] supervision. n107 Moreover, the government can now legally choose never to notify her of that search. n108 The government also has the option of designating U.S. citizens as enemy combatants, thereby depriving them of protections normally enforced through judicial review. n109 Further, those held outside of the United States lack recourse to the writ of habeas corpus. n110 Finally, new investigative strategies will realistically not be limited to the most dangerous potential terrorists (even if we could agree on who they are) if part of their justification is that they help determine who fits into that category. As long as there is some legal reason for using an investigative strategy, such as traffic enforcement, then police can justify their decision regardless of what actually triggered the use of the investigative technique. n111 For example, invasive tactics such as roving wiretaps, searches without ex post notification, or other procedures permitted by post--September 11 legislation are justified on the basis of fighting the war on terror--an objective that seems compelling to the public. Regardless of the justification, the impact of this discretion on profiling should be considered in the context of all non-terrorism related enforcement. This renders troubling the discretion-enabling provisions of the USA Patriot Act, since few checks exist that force investigators to explain their actions. n112 This is not to say that the government has invidious motives in tapping phones, infiltrating computers, secretly searching homes, or labeling people as enemy combatants. Legislators may choose to give prosecutors and investigators discretion for reasons that have nothing to do with discrimination. In practice, however, discretion may be discrimination's handmaiden, giving authorities the opportunity to make arbitrary decisions in the name of fighting terrorism.

It’s a slippery slope: Because the War on Terror will continue indefinitely, the incursions on civil liberties in the Patriot Act will spill over to worse rights violations.


George Harris, Professor of Law at the University of Utah College of Law, 2003 (Spring, Cornell International Law Journal, 36 Cornell Int'l L.J. 135, p.L/N)
As Chief Justice Rehnquist has reminded us, "law is silent in time of war." n78 By transforming its anti-terrorism policy from the "criminal model" urged by the authors to a "war model" not fully anticipated by the authors, the administration has played a powerful card against those who would use the courts to reign in its authority. Unlike the threat posed to our national security and consequently to our civil liberties in World Wars I and II, however, the current war on terrorism conjures the prospect of being at perpetual war and courts being perpetually silent in the face of executive actions in the name of prevention and national security. Ironically, to the degree that present policies fail to prevent future attacks, further incursions on civil liberties in the name of national security will undoubtedly gain momentum from the resulting national apprehension and fear. One shudders to imagine the impact on civil liberties of another attack of the magnitude of 9/11.

After 9/11, hundreds of Arabs were racially profiled and unjustly detained.

Linda Fisher, Associate Professor of Law and Director of the Center for Social Justice at Seton Hall Law School, 2004 (Winter, Arizona Law Review, 46 Ariz. L. Rev. 621, p.L/N)

Nor does it appear that religion or ethnicity can accurately serve as a proxy for involvement in terrorism. One need only cite the detention of over 700 Muslim men in New York and New Jersey - virtually all unconnected to terrorism - after September 11. n216 Other interrogations and arrests of Muslims across the country corroborate the point. n217 Because profiling based on these characteristics causes great harm and has not been demonstrated to provide effective indicators of criminality, another standard must be employed, as set forth in the next Section.

The Patriot Act dramatically increases racial profiling.

Lindsey Kendrick, J.D. Candidate at Howard University School of Law, 2004 (Spring, Howard Law Journal, 47 How. L.J. 989, p.L/N)

The [PATRIOT] Act, in its vagueness, has serious ramifications for racial profiling. Racial profiling is a tactic used by law enforcement officials that involves stopping and searching suspects, not based on any particular activity or conduct, but based on the race of the suspect. n74 In a report by the Maryland State Police, for example, Blacks constituted seventeen percent of all drivers on the road, yet comprised more than seventy percent of all drivers that were stopped and searched. n75
 
Anyway, those are some of our Affirmative files if you want evidence. I spend enough weekends helping my kids debate these issues. I think I'll respectfully bow out of this debate now. I have tons of other things I need to do this afternoon, like go shopping for my trip next week! :wave:
 
Disney Gator said:
That was the point I was trying to make earlier. The people who are up in arms against the PA's invasion of privacy are (generally) completely fine with the government invading our wallets more and more. On the other side of the coin the supporters of the PA are (generally) against gun control. Both sides seem to pick and choose when government invasion is ok and when it's not. Clearly both left and right are in favor of a bigger, more powerful government...just in different ways.

Hey, we're at war...

That means what ever the Congress thinks is necesary and proper to tax and spend for they can. Even a strict constructionist can see that.

:rotfl: Congress thinks is necesary and proper... :rotfl: If only it worked that way in real life. Ever heard of pork barrel?
 

Racial profiling is troubling and probably unjustified. I don't see the value as long as there are individuals such as Timothy McVey out there.

As for the slippery slope argument, haven't our taxes in general gradually increased over time? Except for a few small tax cut bumps, it sounds like we're all sliding on down that hill!
 
Detention without trial on this scale is contrary to every scrap of humanity left in the world and we need those scraps to separate ourselves from the terrorists.



Rich::
 
Geoff_M said:
I'm not a fan of "fringe" groups on either side of the aisle, and the ALA is clearly part of the "Fringe Left."
:rotfl2:
Maybe you want to let President Bush know that his wife is a member of an organization that is on the "left fringe". He might make Laura turn in her membership card! :rotfl:

You are incorrect that library's are being encouraged to "destroy" patron data. However, all major integrated library systems give you the option of retaining/not retaining the link between the patron record and the item borrowed. Most library's do not retain the link unless there is a fine attached to it.

Librarians are in the business of preserving information... and the patron's right to access that information.
 
Laugh O. Grams said:
Not so fast, my friend. The Senate, 52 to 47, blocked the reauthorization yesterday. Seems they were less than thrilled about the hundreds, possibly thousands, of American overseas phone calls that were tapped by the feds without a warrant.

Again, another example of the Republicans refusal to negotiate or compromise with Democrats who are, rightly it turns out, concerned about the erosion of our civil liberties and the sneaky way this is being accomplished. This "My Way Or The Highway" mentality of the Republican power players is getting a bit old. I am hoping 2006 will bring us back to a two party power share with all the checks and balances back in place.
 


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