"Deadbeat Dads" ( or moms )

[cardaway]

The notion of men "always getting the shaft" is quickly becoming a thing of the past..

We'll definately have to agree to disagree.

 

[mickeyfan2]

The visitation arrangement and child support payments are both legal obligations. If one is not getting their court ordered visitation arrangements then that parent needs to go to court and let the court handle it. Support is just that, support for your child. It is not bribe money to see the kid. If you have court ordered support and do not pay it you will find yourself in touble.

 

[cardaway]

The visitation arrangement and child support payments are both legal obligations. If one is not getting their court ordered visitation arrangements then that parent needs to go to court and let the court handle it. Support is just that, support for your child. It is not bribe money to see the kid. If you have court ordered support and do not pay it you will find yourself in touble.

Bribe money?

How is a dad paying support supposed to pay for a lawyer to get to see their kids too? It's not a bribe, it's expecting everything to be the way it should be or holding everything until it's solved.

It's really interesting that the people responding don't have any interest in holding the woman equally accountable for why the support is in dispute. Why not ask her to do what she was told so the payments will resume? In most of these cases, women refusing visitation are also not spending them money on the kids, they are spending it on lawyers or themselves.

All this works real great for the ex wife, probably why it happens as often as it does.

 

[nuke]

We know a family that the dad has custody of the 2 kids because the mother was an addict. She has since cleaned up her act and now get unsupervised visitation twice a month. She has never paid one penny of child support even though she has a job and has remarried. It seems like she got the best deal here. She can be a weekend mommy but doesn't have any of the bills.
Deadbeats go both ways.

 

[mickeyfan2]

Bribe money?

How is a dad paying support supposed to pay for a lawyer to get to see their kids too? It's not a bribe, it's expecting everything to be the way it should be or holding everything until it's solved.

It's really interesting that the people responding don't have any interest in holding the woman equally accountable for why the support is in dispute. Why not ask her to do what she was told so the payments will resume? In most of these cases, women refusing visitation are also not spending them money on the kids, they are spending it on lawyers or themselves.

All this works real great for the ex wife, probably why it happens as often as it does.

If the father had custody and the mother did not pay support I would say the same thing.

In my state the support is taken from the paycheck by the employer and sent to the state. The state then sends it to the parent. There is no way to withhold payment. If you change jobs you need to tell the state. If you just quit, then a warrent is issued for you. If you go to get the kid at your appointed time and the parent says not you called the cops (have the agreement or a copy with you). Then you can tell the state and if persists the state will take the custody from that parent and give it to the other. You can win by using the system.

BTW it seems this is to near and dear to your heart.

 

[noodleknitter]

We know a family that the dad has custody of the 2 kids because the mother was an addict. She has since cleaned up her act and now get unsupervised visitation twice a month. She has never paid one penny of child support even though she has a job and has remarried. It seems like she got the best deal here. She can be a weekend mommy but doesn't have any of the bills.
Deadbeats go both ways.

True, it can. Can't the father take her to court for support, though?

 

[VioltePrincess]

of course he could.

there was a case on Long Island not too long ago, the mother was the noncustodial parent. she quit her highly-paid full time job and moved to florida to avoid paying support. eventually she came back to NY and was arrested on federal charges for crossing state lines to avoid a support obligation.

 

[VioltePrincess]

cardaway, do you really want the courts to micromanage people's lives? that's what you seem to imply by arguing a third party should hold both parents accountable. the courts don't want to do that, and frankly..ewell, every time my ex dragged me into court over visitation issues, he lost, and hardened my attitude about being flexible with visitation. in other words, for many years he got EXACTLY the number of hours of visitation our divorce agreement provided for, and not one hour more.

the last time he went to court, he asked the judge to change custody. the court dismissed his petition, but not until the judge had my children in her chambers for an in camera interview. that was NOT a pleasant experience for my kids.

when the older dd turned 13, her father underwent an attitude adjustment. he realized that his behavior was alienating the girls and so he stopped trying to micromanage their lives.

now that both are teenagers, they're pretty much in charge of their relationship with their father. he comes to all the school events, and they see him about once a month and for holidays. he has their cell phone numbers and calls them regularly. life is much calmer now.

the point of this being -- having the court intervene in the situation was not helpful.

as for child support -- I know a lot of men who regularly see their kids but who fail to pay their support, or pay only a portion of their support obligation. it's not always a "no visitation, no support" situation. be careful of generalizations, they're not always accurate.

 

[cardaway]

BTW it seems this is to near and dear to your heart.

I would ask why you felt you needed to add that, but maybe I don't want to know.

I have no kids, period.

I'm simply arguing for what I believe to be the group that needs support, but I'm done. It was a bad idea to even bother posting to this thread.

 

[bunny]

How are men supposed to pay legal costs to sue the mother for visitation rights after paying a huge amount of their salary in child support?

 

[noodleknitter]

I wouldn't know the answer to that one. I don't know any men who pay out a huge amt. for child support. Statistically speaking the father's quality of life improves post divorce, while the mother's declines.

 

[mickeyfan2]

I wouldn't know the answer to that one. I don't know any men who pay out a huge amt. for child support. Statistically speaking the father's quality of life improves post divorce, while the mother's declines.

Absolutely. I know somebody whose DH mades $150K+ who gets $1k per kid (2) and $1K in alimony per month. The support is tax free to her but the alimony is taxable. She has not worked for most of the marriage, so now he lived on $114K ($150 - 36K) less taxes and the mom and two kids live on $66K ($30k [her job] + $36K) less taxes. So how is she better off?! Two less people live on $48K more pre tax.

 

[SillyMe]

How are men supposed to pay legal costs to sue the mother for visitation rights after paying a huge amount of their salary in child support?

Are you kidding me? I get $40/week in child support for dd15.

 

[poohandwendy]

Absolutely. I know somebody whose DH mades $150K+ who gets $1k per kid (2) and $1K in alimony per month. The support is tax free to her but the alimony is taxable. She has not worked for most of the marriage, so now he lived on $114K ($150 - 36K) less taxes and the mom and two kids live on $66K ($30k [her job] + $36K) less taxes. So how is she better off?! Two less people live on $48K more pre tax.

How much ofhis income should she and the child have?

 

[mickeyfan2]

How much ofhis income should she and the child have?

Personally I think it is fair, but that is another story.

I was just showing that the Dad is not so poor from paying support that he has not monee to pay a lawyer with! That was many here were claiming.

 

[VioltePrincess]

we're grappling with issues here that perplex the legislatures and the courts.

there's no magic forumula here.

for every custodial mom whose standard of living is reduced, you can probably find a custodial mom who remarried a wealthy man and who has the financial ability to make her ex "pay up".

I have a friend who has been divorced 8 years, and has had to go to court at least once every year on financial issues. she represents herself because she can't pay lawyer. he ex owes her thousands of dollars. she'll be collecitng on the judgments against him long after the youngest child graduates from college.

another friend, well, his ex-wife remarried and moved to California. she married a wealthy man and doesn't "need" the child support. He pays his child support in full and on time. still, his ex makes it difficult for him to fly out there to visit the kids, or for the kids to fly here to visit him.

how do you address both situations fairly and even handedly, for the welfare of the children?

 

[poohandwendy]

Personally I think it is fair, but that is another story.

I was just showing that the Dad is not so poor from paying support that he has not monee to pay a lawyer with! That was many here were claiming.

LOL, sorry, I missed your point.

I don't know anyone who is thrilled with paying legal fees. Not much you can do about it when your kids are at stake, so sometimes you just gotta suck it up.

 

[noodleknitter]

How much ofhis income should she and the child have?

In our area of the country a family could do alright on that amt. But I think it would depend on where the family is located. If the custodial parent's income has been severely affected by being a mutually agreed upon stay at home parent, then they should get enough to get by, IMO. At that point, I think you need to look at percentages over time. My opinion, of course.

 

[bunny]

Wow, I don't know what part of the country you guys live in, but in PA, child support is calculated on a percentage of the father's income after taxes. For 1 children it is approximately 25%, 2 children 35%, and 3 children 40% plus. On top of that the non-custodial parent must pay 1/2 of childcare and health insurance coverage and usually all travel expenses. And the child support is done by payroll deduction and automatic deposit.

The child support is handled through a government agency and changes can be initiated without charge to the mother. The father can also handle his own case if he desires BUT visitation is handled in court. If you want to enforce a visiation agreement you need an attorney. Your minimum charges will be $10,000 plus. Even more if the ex lives out of state. Then the case may be switched to her area and you will need to pay traveling costs and depend on an attorney you have only met over the phone.

Why isn't visitation handled in the same way as child support? Why is it so expensive to fight for it?

 

[SillyMe]

When I made the comment about legal fees I was referring to a middle income/low income father. If he has 2 children he will be paying approximately 35% of his income. Say he makes $3000 a month, he will pay $1050. So he now has $1195. Maybe his ex-wife does have less than this to live on, but in terms of legal fees how could someone making less than $2000 a month afford $10,000 plus in legal fees to fight over visitation? On top of that what if he also needed to pay child care costs and transportation? In a divorce I don't think anyone is better off. The couple needs to split their income to afford two houses.

I understand what you're saying. By the same token, flip that around. A mother isn't receiving any child support, yet he's allowed to see the child. She doesn't have money to pay for an attorney to fight for her child support. That's not fair, either.

I believe it depends completely on the situation. There is no black or white answer/solution.