DD6 says music teacher pulled her ponytail - WWYD?

[ktlm]

I agree that conversation has red flags everywhere. Skip a week and then I'll talk to her alone in class? Don't come by and talk to me together? I don't think I'd let her anywhere near my child after that response. To me, the appropriate response would have been for her to have you and your daughter come meet with her and talk about your daughter's perceptions about what happened. I would think she would want to understand why your daughter was upset and to try to smooth things over. If it was just a playful tug to get her attention, I would think she would want to apologize and say she was sorry that your daughter thought it was something else or was upset. I got the impression from your first post that it was more a case of the teacher grabbing her hair and pulling her by it to lead her to another part of the room, than just a quick light tug to get her attention and then tell her to go to the other area. In any event if it was the quick light tug and the teacher didn't mean anything by it, I would think she would be going out of her way to try to make things right--- not trying to avoid talking to your together, telling you not to go to the principal, and basically trying to corner your daughter alone.

I wouldn't worry about the fact she won some award. Do what you need to do for your daughter.

Also, find your daughter another teacher. I doubt she would ever be comfortable with this woman after this. Not only does your daughter at the very least perceive that something happened, she also perceives that this teacher is lying and trying to cover it up (which the teacher's suspicious response seems to support). Don't let a teacher ruin her love of the piano.

 

[Tiger926]

Thanks to all - spoke to principal last night as she called me right back and she is concerned on several levels. She is most concerned that my DD is feeling like she can't trust certain adults right now, and so she wants to make sure that she knows that she is loved and safe at school. She just about flipped out when I told her about walking to the park, as she says the teacher has broken their contract. She has known my DD since birth, and her classroom is right across from the principal's office and so her and my DD chat all of the time, she has her help her out around the school - they have a very good relationship. We are very lucky as my DD trusts her like she trusts us. She is going to talk to her alone tomorrow, with the other children, and then speak to the music teacher. As soon as I told the principal that DD wanted to talk to her, as well as the music teacher, she said that is very telling. Most kids don't want to handle their school issues at all - she says this speaks volumes to her as she knows my DD. So, if it were an accident (watch or ring) or they were goofing around, she will make sure that my DD feels safe at school and with adults.

DH and I don't know what happened, why or how, but something happened. We have no reason not to trust our DD, so our priority is getting the facts right and then we'll go from there. We believe that her hair was definitely pulled in some way, shape or form. She now says she wants to take a break from piano as her music teacher's lying has upset her and made her sad to piano (those were her words). Principal said not to force her to go, and I said no worries about that as our DD has said she is NOT going back to the piano room under any circumstances.

Thanks to all for your support and help - those of you who are teachers, know that it's hard for us as parents as we don't want to overreact, and so many times we underreact, and I realized that this would be damaging to my DD. I am a Spec Ed teacher who fights (and I mean fights) with other staff, parents, students and government for my at-risk students, so I absolutely must give my own children the same consideration, especially since she's only a baby girl of 6 years old. This event, although small in comparison to many, could shape how she feels about adults for years to come...

Thanks to all, Tiger

 

[Duckyiam71]

I only ask this because it is a private school....Do they have cameras in the rooms? Some of the private schools have cameras and that would just put an end to the problem. I agree with trusting your daughter. I had huge problem at school where the MPs(on post school) were called and they pulled up video that I did not know they had and and sure enough was my DS was right. Good luck!

 

[kpgriswold]

Sounds like you are doing a SUPERB job with a very difficult situation.

Regardless of what happens next, keep the focus on "my child no longer feels safe with this teacher." Don't let the music teacher drag you into what did or did not happen. Just keep saying, my DD no longer feels safe with you and we need a new piano teacher. And encourage that kiddo to keep taking lessons!

 

[Tiger926]

I only ask this because it is a private school....Do they have cameras in the rooms? Some of the private schools have cameras and that would just put an end to the problem. I agree with trusting your daughter. I had huge problem at school where the MPs(on post school) were called and they pulled up video that I did not know they had and and sure enough was my DS was right. Good luck!

Yup, most have cameras, but this room does not. My DD says she is going to tell the principal tomorrow that she needs to get cameras in there - LOL!

Thanks, Tiger

 

[TheRatPack]

Hope you get it worked out. I witnessed a teacher grabbing my child once and had another teacher leave a whelp on my sons arm. Never ignore what your children tell you happened....even if kids are being chatty or slow about getting in line, or even down right disobedient, no teacher has the right to ever put their hands on them (unless of course you've signed a paddling policy LOL). There are a lot of teachers out their that abuse their authority (tons that don't....) but still.....it needs to be taken care of.

 

[Schmeck]

I don't get why you need to know this before you can decide if it was right or wrong but as an earlier poster stated, she did answer you.

OK - so the OP is stating that the teacher pulled the entire ponytail? Or was it a few hairs?

The child states that it hurt to have her hair pulled - pulling an entire ponytail does not hurt the head - the mass of hair spreads out the pull. Try it, grab as much hair as you can, try to get all of it, and give it a reasonable tug.

Now, pull just a few hairs - that can really hurt, but try pulling a few hairs that are encased by a ponytail elastic - it hurts a little bit, kind of like if hair was snagged by something.

What I'm trying to say is, what if the teacher was wearing some jewelry, touched the girl's curly ponytail, and some of that hair got caught in a bracelet or ring, and snagged? That would hurt, especially if it was unexpected. The child might think it was deliberate, and the adult might not have even known it had happened.

 

[Tiger926]

OK - so the OP is stating that the teacher pulled the entire ponytail? Or was it a few hairs?

The child states that it hurt to have her hair pulled - pulling an entire ponytail does not hurt the head - the mass of hair spreads out the pull. Try it, grab as much hair as you can, try to get all of it, and give it a reasonable tug.

Now, pull just a few hairs - that can really hurt, but try pulling a few hairs that are encased by a ponytail elastic - it hurts a little bit, kind of like if hair was snagged by something.

What I'm trying to say is, what if the teacher was wearing some jewelry, touched the girl's curly ponytail, and some of that hair got caught in a bracelet or ring, and snagged? That would hurt, especially if it was unexpected. The child might think it was deliberate, and the adult might not have even known it had happened.

I don't remember saying that the entire hair was pulled, my DD said that she pulled a few strands up and used this to make her rise up from the floor. This does hurt - and I disagree that pulling an entire ponytail hurts either. I've had that done to me, and it also hurts. We role played and my DD did exactly what she said the teacher did - grabbed a few strands by the hair tips and used those to pull her up from the floor where she was working in her piano theory book. Sorry if I misled anyone, it's been a very long few weeks around here as both kids were very ill and so we haven't had much sleep, and now we have this problem to deal with...

I also said that perhaps her hair got caught in her ring or watch as that would be a very believable scenario - why then would the teacher not remember or make note of this and mention it to me? The whole thing would be tied up nicely if she had done that. Easy, peasy!

As a teacher myself, it doesn't matter if it was a few hairs or a lot, we can't do it, period. If it had been a snag on a piece of jewelry, this would also be fine, but I would expect the teacher to have some recollection of this. She sounded nervous on the phone, and did not do all that she could have to put a parent's mind at ease (a very involved parent, I might add), nor my child's mind at ease. I gave her many opportunities to come up with solutions to make my child feel more safe and comfortable, and she didn't really go for any of them. This doesn't sit well with us at all...

We don't know what happened, but we know something happened to distress my DD - a child who up until Thursday loved her piano teacher and her lessons, and who now refuses to return to this piano room under any circumstance. This is where our concern lies...

Tiger

 

[Cinderellabride]

Even if it was a "jewlery snag" which based on the info given I highly doubt, what would the teacher's hand being doing in her hair where it could get snagged in the first place?!? That wouldn't happen unless the teacher had the childs hair in her hand or was touching her near her hair. Also I highly doubt one would not notice their ring or watch getting caught on something. If that was the case she likely would have noticed right away and appologized to the child and this would not even be an issue.

 

[seashoreCM]

- pulling an entire ponytail does not hurt the head - the mass of hair spreads out the pull.

Not correct. Some hairs can stretch out before others do (and which hairs stretch out first depends on what direction you are pulling in).

I Like I said, we visit the piano room almost everyday afterschool as we pass by on the way to pick up the baby in his classroom. I suggested that we continue to do this as per normal, and she said that we shouldn't do it.

Lay low for awhile. Do not begin a conversation about that piano room. Don't go in, don't even pause if you need to walk by the room. Let DD find a piano elsewhere on her own when she is ready, don't rush her. Now if some day DD actually leads you to that room and goes in first, then follow her without making any comments.

 

[Pirate1+Princess4]

How hard did she pull the ponytail?

I must admit I did gentle ponytail tugs to campers to get their attention. It was never hard, about the same strength used to tap on a shoulder. But if their little heads were turned away I would sometimes just lightly tug a ponytail as a playful way of getting their attention and redirecting them to whatever activity we were currently involved in.

Not a single one ever complained of pain, No one ever yelped. It was just a playful tug, as opposed to nagging them repeatedly or anything else. I never thought of this as something the kids would have minded. It was mainly a nonverbal, somewhat playful cue to turn their heads back my way.

.

I have 4 little girls and 1 is extremely tender headed. If you gave her a gentle tug on the her ponytail, I'm sure it would it hurt her. But she likely wouldn't say anything to you. She would just take it. Then she'd NEVER let me put her hair up in a ponytail again. I'm lucky to get her to pull her hair back for 1 hour of soccer.

Just saying that a "playful tug" to you might really be uncomfortable to another.

OP, not sure what I would do. Sounds like you are handling it the right way. (I just had to edit this because I didn't read through the entire thread.)

And FWIW to previous poster about "how much hair", you must not be tender-headed. I could probably handle a little pull on mine, but my one DD would be through the roof. The others aren't quite like this, but my sister was tender-headed too.

 

[Tiger926]

Thanks again to all - my DH and I are always amazed at how helpful and understanding DISers are!

It helps to see many different perspectives on this as I spoke to my mom (same thing happened to my sis as a child, as well as 4 others in class - teacher was suspended and then retired out after a slew of parental complaints), and my sis and best friend who are both social workers (family and school board). We all have some knowledge of this type of situation, so it's good to hear from those who are removed from similar situations, as well as those who have had teacher issues before.

DH and I are still nervous, and DD could not fall asleep last night. She had an amazing day, which we were so happy about because she's been very ill, but as soon as we picked out her uniform clothes and got her backpack ready, she started to get sad, and cried. She is worried about it too...

I actually thought about something else last night while speaking to DH about it - teacher said both in her email to me, and in our phone conversation that she was worried about DD as she looked pale and tired. She knew she had been sick as I emailed her, plus classroom teacher and VP let her know, yet she felt it was ok to have her walk, unattended to her classroom during outside recess? Doesn't add up...even when my highschoolers are not feeling well, I still give them extra care and attention, and some of them are 19 and 20 for goodness sakes! When young kids don't feel well, or in this case, just returning from being ill for almost 2 weeks, she should have done whatever she could to make sure DD was ok. Plus, my DD has low blood sugar, so teacher knows that she can get very pale and shaky, which would be a safety/medical issue as she would need to be brought food from the kitchen and brought to office...

It definitely makes DH and I feel that something happened, and at the very least, she is not someone whom we can trust with our children, if indeed these actions happened.

My tummy hurts as we are getting ready for school, so by 8:15 today, DH might see the piano teacher, and he's worried about how DD might react. We have no choice but to walk by her room, as there is no other way to get across the school to DS's classroom.

I will keep all of you wonderful folks updated, Tiger

 

[Schmeck]

I'm sorry, I guess I never saw the part about it being a few hairs - yes that could hurt a child with sensory issues.

If it was definitely a hair pull (and not an accidental snag that the teacher didn't even realize had happened, which was the point I was trying to make) then have that issue addressed.

 

[allison443]

Thanks again to all - my DH and I are always amazed at how helpful and understanding DISers are!

It helps to see many different perspectives on this as I spoke to my mom (same thing happened to my sis as a child, as well as 4 others in class - teacher was suspended and then retired out after a slew of parental complaints), and my sis and best friend who are both social workers (family and school board). We all have some knowledge of this type of situation, so it's good to hear from those who are removed from similar situations, as well as those who have had teacher issues before.

DH and I are still nervous, and DD could not fall asleep last night. She had an amazing day, which we were so happy about because she's been very ill, but as soon as we picked out her uniform clothes and got her backpack ready, she started to get sad, and cried. She is worried about it too...

I actually thought about something else last night while speaking to DH about it - teacher said both in her email to me, and in our phone conversation that she was worried about DD as she looked pale and tired. She knew she had been sick as I emailed her, plus classroom teacher and VP let her know, yet she felt it was ok to have her walk, unattended to her classroom during outside recess? Doesn't add up...even when my highschoolers are not feeling well, I still give them extra care and attention, and some of them are 19 and 20 for goodness sakes! When young kids don't feel well, or in this case, just returning from being ill for almost 2 weeks, she should have done whatever she could to make sure DD was ok. Plus, my DD has low blood sugar, so teacher knows that she can get very pale and shaky, which would be a safety/medical issue as she would need to be brought food from the kitchen and brought to office...

It definitely makes DH and I feel that something happened, and at the very least, she is not someone whom we can trust with our children, if indeed these actions happened.

My tummy hurts as we are getting ready for school, so by 8:15 today, DH might see the piano teacher, and he's worried about how DD might react. We have no choice but to walk by her room, as there is no other way to get across the school to DS's classroom.

I will keep all of you wonderful folks updated, Tiger

I just read this post and to me it seems to be a contrast for your first post, where your dd was very matter of fact, non-dramatic, just wanted to deal with it calmly. She still wanted to take piano, still loved school. Now it's at the point where you, dh and dd are nervous, you're having stomach pains, dd cried about going to school...it seems like the whole thing has gotten worse, kwim? Please don't take this the wrong way but maybe dd is picking up on your and your dh's concern, stress over this, etc. She sounds perceptive so it's a possibility, right?

Also you seem to have given it more thought and you don't view it as a one-time mistake by a good teacher, but more as she is someone you can't trust for other reasons in addition to the hair incident. (I understand this is from speaking with her and how she reacted to you.)


Is your dd going to speak to the principal today? Will you or dh be there? What do you want to happen? Do you want the teacher fired? I think it's a good idea to have some idea of what your expectations are when you speak to the principal. It sounds like you have a good relationship with the principal, and hopefully this can be resolved. Are there other piano teachers at the school dd could take lessons from?

Good luck and hopefully you can help your dd move past this!

 

[seashoreCM]

This seems strange, DD being mature enough to want to talk to the principal about video cameras yet afraid to walk through the corridor past the room door.

Is the piano teacher willing to lay low let alone bend over backward to help DD feel more comfortable in school again? For starters, doing nothing towards DD that would expect any kind of response. That is, I would guess that smiling at DD would be OK but there should be no action or words that suggest let alone require a response and also no response should be expected. Let time take its course and maybe DD may regain her confidence by herself.

By the way there are similar situations nationwide where the parents side with the teacher. There may be obscure articles in psychology magazines comparing how children whose parents sided one way or the other behaved going on into adulthood.

>>> ... one time mistake ...
A "negative attaboy" (there's an unsavory synonym that won't reproduce on this forum).

>>> ... WWYD ...
I would consider such things as letting the kid stay home the next day (the defacto result of the parent not making the kid cry), and spending the day at the school observing. After careful thought as opposed to snap decisions.

 

[mjkacmom]

I just read this post and to me it seems to be a contrast for your first post, where your dd was very matter of fact, non-dramatic, just wanted to deal with it calmly. She still wanted to take piano, still loved school. Now it's at the point where you, dh and dd are nervous, you're having stomach pains, dd cried about going to school...it seems like the whole thing has gotten worse, kwim? Please don't take this the wrong way but maybe dd is picking up on your and your dh's concern, stress over this, etc. She sounds perceptive so it's a possibility, right?

Also you seem to have given it more thought and you don't view it as a one-time mistake by a good teacher, but more as she is someone you can't trust for other reasons in addition to the hair incident. (I understand this is from speaking with her and how she reacted to you.)


Is your dd going to speak to the principal today? Will you or dh be there? What do you want to happen? Do you want the teacher fired? I think it's a good idea to have some idea of what your expectations are when you speak to the principal. It sounds like you have a good relationship with the principal, and hopefully this can be resolved. Are there other piano teachers at the school dd could take lessons from?

Good luck and hopefully you can help your dd move past this!

I think I agree with this. You asked WWYD - I'd let it go. I totally believe your dd - the teacher tugged on her pony tail. The teacher, in a split second, reacted badly, out of frustration. I've done the same. I'm not over sensitive, and my kids aren't - to the point that I sincerely doubt they would've brought this incident to my attention in the first place. This was an isolated event, the first time your child had issues with this teacher. I could see a problem if this kept happening, but your dd had no issues with this teacher before this happened. I think that if, when she told you, you let her know that grownups aren't perfect, and that you would talk to the teacher, this would be over by now. Again, you asked WWYD - I'd be way over it by now.

 

[taximomfor4]

I think I agree with this. You asked WWYD - I'd let it go. I totally believe your dd - the teacher tugged on her pony tail. The teacher, in a split second, reacted badly, out of frustration. I've done the same. I'm not over sensitive, and my kids aren't - to the point that I sincerely doubt they would've brought this incident to my attention in the first place. This was an isolated event, the first time your child had issues with this teacher. I could see a problem if this kept happening, but your dd had no issues with this teacher before this happened. I think that if, when she told you, you let her know that grownups aren't perfect, and that you would talk to the teacher, this would be over by now. Again, you asked WWYD - I'd be way over it by now.

TOTALLY agree.

 

[Tiger926]

Well, this morning the music teacher took my DD for piano lessons at the beginning of the day - never did this before, plus, today is not her normal day. Classroom teacher did not know and released her, as principal hadn't gotten to school yet. She sent my DH a text to tell him that she took DD to piano class and that she had a fun time, and she wants to talk to me tonight afterschool.

My DD talked to principal and VP, just like she said she would, and told them what happened - same as us. She also role played - they totally believe her, and they are upset with the teacher at this point as there is a hands-off policy, plus, a big peace education program at the school. Principal went to talk to music teacher, but she is busy with students, so she is waiting on the first opportunity to do so. She thanked me for telling her, and said I absolutely did the right thing as this is an important issue. Even if it had been an accident, she was going to speak to her about how to better smooth things out with parents and students, as DD thinks that an adult is ok to lie.

Principal said that my DD was in an ok mood - not overtly excited about piano at all. She said should could go to piano if she needed to. Principal thinks she felt a sense of duty to go to her lesson, and apologized for the mix-up in her attending class.

I am on my way to speak to the music teacher - I don't want her fired or am looking to get her into trouble. I really gave her several opportunities to admit or explain the situation, as I know that sometimes, kids can get feisty (I have never touched a student, but things do happen), but she didn't give me anything to go on and in fact, her info was opposite of what DD told myself, DH and principals - that she was chatting and upset the teacher by that. Perhaps this was a one-time event, but at this point, that really not important, as she touched a child, and that can't be an acceptable way of working with children.

Just in response to above poster - my posts since the 1st one are different because after actually speaking to the music teacher, and my DD relaying a 2nd safety issue, we have concerns. We don't feel like at this time, we can trust her completely, as she made a few bad choices that could have had serious consequences.

I will keep you all posted about what happens now - principal has made it a priority to speak to the music teacher as she is not happy with what has transpired at all.

Thanks, Tiger

 

[FSUDisneyGirl]

I hope things worked out after school. Let us know!

As far as a WWYD- As others said, your daughter seemed okay after the initial incident...not happy about it, but not overly stressed/ traumatized. I would let her know it was wrong, and that the adults would make sure it would not happen again (between you, teacher, principal), and leave it at that with your daughter. It seems that your daughter is feeling your stress about the situation...so hopefully, with you talking to the teacher, things will be worked out now!

 

[Ciciwoowoo]

Goodness, you are a very patient person. My initial reaction would be to pull my child from that school. If my child was to continue at the school, I would insist this teacher no longer worked there. I would not want my child to fear going to school or any negative reaction from seeing the music teacher in the hall.

As far as the whole hair pulling incident is concerned, even had your child been talking and the teacher needed her attention, a simple tap on the shoulder would have been more that sufficient. There should never have been contact with her hair.

I think the way this teacher continues to act is very suspicious. She is acting guilty. And if she doesn't have qualms doing this to your daughter, what makes you think she isn't doing this to other children as well? Abusers never stick to just one victim. I was completely creeped out when you said she took your daughter this morning. I would have been livid beyond belief!!!

Good luck to you and your family. You are totally doing the right thing here by following up on it all. Keep listening to your daughter, and as much as you like the school, if she is hesistant to go to school at all in the future, look around for a new one. I fear that until the music teacher is gone, your daughter is going to continue to suffer.