Davids DVC: Rental reimbursement or rescheduling?

[McCrae]

I can confirm that David’s is letting customers with credit notes to re book now ( others have said he will not rebook til August, but I think that just means for stays before August) as I have just re rented my points for a family for 11 months time. From the contract sent I know they only had to make up the deficit of a few $ and the rest was their credit. I have also been paid the remaining 30% for those points. The extra $1 per point will be paid to me at check in. At least one family with a credit note has a successful outcome and one owner (me!) who is happy with David’s response to getting final payment.

This is very encouraging to read, as an owner I have been sitting on the fence thinking about what I will do. My initial thoughts are that I am more likely to offer my points for re-rental.

 

[Cyberc1978]

From David’s point of view offering the Voucher may turn out to be a bad decision. The voucher prevents successful insurance claims and is more likely to create more Charge back claims. If they didn’t offer the voucher and the insurance paid out, charge backs would not be successful.

Unless his thinking is that only very few customers are having insurance and therefore going to pursue a charge back instead.

 

[Deb & Bill]

I can confirm that David’s is letting customers with credit notes to re book now ( others have said he will not rebook til August, but I think that just means for stays before August) as I have just re rented my points for a family for 11 months time. From the contract sent I know they only had to make up the deficit of a few $ and the rest was their credit. I have also been paid the remaining 30% for those points. The extra $1 per point will be paid to me at check in. At least one family with a credit note has a successful outcome and one owner (me!) who is happy with David’s response to getting final payment.

I hope you get the extra $1 and the 30% he still owes you when the guest checks in. He may be insolvent by then. The guest will still have your reservation though.

 

[Sandisw]

Although, in at least some of those instances, he only needs to front the 1-night deposit.

True, but he’d need balance quickly for summer reservations. That is why I think he is not booking with his vouchers so he can build back up to cover the balance when it is due,

 

[cmrdgrs]

Interestingly, he has a number of dedicated reservations for June, July and August. Now, why wouldn’t he allow renters to use their vouchers for them?

Are they studios? I haven't looked, but I'd guess they are not studios.

 

[akadk]

Question for Point Owners and Renters?

We were scheduled via David's for May 2 to May 6. Note: We have used David's successfully in the past and already have another separate booking scheduled in November. Obviously May trip was canceled to park closure.

We have disagreed with the new credit terms if a rescheduled trip is canceled again, we have lost full payment. No one can predict the future but we assume closures will happen again at some point.

We have heard numerous times by David's that the new credit is fair for all involved. How is the credit fair to the Renter if they paid both David's - and by proxy Owner - if they just forfeit all paid fees?

 

[Marionnette]

Are they studios? I haven't looked, but I'd guess they are not studios.

A lot of studios and at a wide variety of resorts.

 

[Marionnette]

Question for Point Owners and Renters?

We were scheduled via David's for May 2 to May 6. Note: We have used David's successfully in the past and already have another separate booking scheduled in November. Obviously May trip was canceled to park closure.

We have disagreed with the new credit terms if a rescheduled trip is canceled again, we have lost full payment. No one can predict the future but we assume closures will happen again at some point.

We have heard numerous times by David's that the new credit is fair for all involved. How is the credit fair to the Renter if they paid both David's - and by proxy Owner - if they just forfeit all paid fees?

It isn’t. That’s just how David’s wishes to market it.

 

[dragonflymom]

I have also been paid the remaining 30% for those points.

So glad to hear it all worked out with you, David's and the renter. I am impressed that David's has already paid you the remaining 30% for the re-rented reservation 11 months out. Did you have to ask for it or was that built into the "new" contract?

 

[Bowen Family]

Question for Point Owners and Renters?

We were scheduled via David's for May 2 to May 6. Note: We have used David's successfully in the past and already have another separate booking scheduled in November. Obviously May trip was canceled to park closure.

We have disagreed with the new credit terms if a rescheduled trip is canceled again, we have lost full payment. No one can predict the future but we assume closures will happen again at some point.

We have heard numerous times by David's that the new credit is fair for all involved. How is the credit fair to the Renter if they paid both David's - and by proxy Owner - if they just forfeit all paid fees?

Many on this thread have the same questions and concerns. I certainly do.

As for fair or not: I feel that renters who were booked a DVC stay on an owner’s distressed points, ie points on the verge of expiration and therefore no practical chance of using or re-renting, then the voucher seems fair. Perhaps it’s even more than fair, since the owner isn’t likely to get their remaining 30% payment for their lost points, but the renter at least has an offer from David’s of a possible future booking at full value. Assuming this voucher system works as expected.

But in any other circumstance I can think of, accepting the voucher leaves the renter exposed to a lot of risk and the chance of getting nothing, while both the owner and David’s can be made whole. That is the part that doesn’t sit well with me.

 

[akadk]

Many on this thread have the same questions and concerns. I certainly do.

As for fair or not: I feel that renters who were booked a DVC stay on an owner’s distressed points, ie points on the verge of expiration and therefore no practical chance of using or re-renting, then the voucher seems fair. Perhaps it’s even more than fair, since the owner isn’t likely to get their remaining 30% payment for their lost points, but the renter at least has an offer from David’s of a possible future booking at full value. Assuming this voucher system works as expected.

But in any other circumstance I can think of, accepting the voucher leaves the renter exposed to a lot of risk and the chance of getting nothing, while both the owner and David’s can be made whole. That is the part that doesn’t sit well with me.

Here's the rub, we were vacationing with other family members using their own DVC Points (not David's). They were near expiration. Disney already gave them their points back with extended expirations. Seems fair of Disney and not shocked they treated their guest that way.

We are 100% certain that David's points owners have also received their points back from Disney as well with extended deadlines for use. Even if David's is negotiating with those owners to utilize the returned points, why try to handicap the renters with new terms?

 

[Marionnette]

We are 100% certain that David's points owners have also received their points back from Disney as well with extended deadlines for use. Even if David's is negotiating with those owners to utilize the returned points, why try to handicap the renters with new terms?

DVC only extended the points for affected owners with April and June UYs. Not every owner was given an additional 6 months to use their points.

 

[Maddiesmum03]

So glad to hear it all worked out with you, David's and the renter. I am impressed that David's has already paid you the remaining 30% for the re-rented reservation 11 months out. Did you have to ask for it or was that built into the "new" contract?

I confirmed with them before booking that they would pay me on booking, rather than at check in. Having read on here that their rates had gone up I cheekily suggested payment of the $1 at the time of check in and to my surprise they agreed without any argument and put a note against my points. They automatically paid once the renters had paid their extra dollars on top of their credit note.

 

[YourEveryDayAdam]

I confirmed with them before booking that they would pay me on booking, rather than at check in. Having read on here that their rates had gone up I cheekily suggested payment of the $1 at the time of check in and to my surprise they agreed without any argument and put a note against my points. They automatically paid once the renters had paid their extra dollars on top of their credit note.

I am glad to hear that it sounds like David's may be starting to do this credit right by owners. That is encouraging. I am also glad that he is letting renters with vouchers actually book right now, even if he's not letting them travel until August or September. Even though evidence suggests that Disney is going to open June 1, in at least some capacity, I get that Disney may not be open this summer at all...and this is likely avoiding a situation where they get their reservation cancelled out from under them again.

 

[akadk]

DVC only extended the points for affected owners with April and June UYs. Not every owner was given an additional 6 months to use their points.

Thanks again. That's useful information. I imagine Disney will keep extending points back until such time they can open safely. Note: We were not asking David's for money back originally, just no new terms with loss of funds and no trip. It will be interesting to see if people flock to Disney once reopened. I suspect many may not feel safe traveling to the resort.

 

[Bowen Family]

Thank

Here's the rub, we were vacationing with other family members using their own DVC Points (not David's). They were near expiration. Disney already gave them their points back with extended expirations. Seems fair of Disney and not shocked they treated their guest that way.

We are 100% certain that David's points owners have also received their points back from Disney as well with extended deadlines for use. Even if David's is negotiating with those owners to utilize the returned points, why try to handicap the renters with new terms?

In our case, we have a May 10 check-in that still shows up in MDE. My understanding is that DVC is only cancelling reservations on a rolling basis 5 days out from check-in. So I expect the owner has been smart and not cancelled my res on his own, so that this coming Tuesday the reservation will be cancelled by DVC. This means the owner will then receive his points back from DVC, and though his points have not been extended (I have learned from David’s that these points are borrowed from a Nov 2018 UY, so not eligible for the recent April and June 2018 UY extensions), he still has until the end of November 2020 this year to use them. That’s a six month window from a presumed June re-opening. Not bad for him.

So will ‘my’ owner re-book these points for his own use by November 2020? Will he rent them to someone else? I have no idea. All I know for certain is I’ve paid $1,000’s for these points, and right now the owner has either 70% of my money and David’s the other 30%; or David’s has all of it.

So what do I want to happen?

My first preference would be to know the owner’s actions. If he refunds my money to David’s and receives his points back from DVC, I simply can’t understand why David’s wouldn’t refund me. The original contract is distressed. Cancel it and let us all move on. I’d gladly forego David’s commission, just give me back the rest!

Failing that best case, I’d be cautiously open to this credit system, but not with the conditions attached. Going forward, I’d want to know when my next batch of rented points expire (all future DVC renters should start insisting on this info, IMO), and retain the right to rebook or otherwise receive compensation of some sort in the event of a resort closure.

But after a lot of thought and reading on this topic, these two scenarios are all I’m interested in. Anything else and I’ll take my chances with a chargeback. I don’t want to put David’s in a tougher spot than they’re in, I really don’t. But I also need to protect my own interests. We all do!

 

[akadk]

In our case, we have a May 10 check-in that still shows up in MDE. My understanding is that DVC is only cancelling reservations on a rolling basis 5 days out from check-in. So I expect the owner has been smart and not cancelled my res on his own, so that this coming Tuesday the reservation will be cancelled by DVC. This means the owner will then receive his points back from DVC, and though his points have not been extended (I have learned from David’s that these points are borrowed from a Nov 2018 UY, so not eligible for the recent April and June 2018 UY extensions), he still has until the end of November 2020 this year to use them. That’s a six month window from a presumed June re-opening. Not bad for him.

So will ‘my’ owner re-book these points for his own use by November 2020? Will he rent them to someone else? I have no idea. All I know for certain is I’ve paid $1,000’s for these points, and right now the owner has either 70% of my money and David’s the other 30%; or David’s has all of it.

So what do I want to happen?

My first preference would be to know the owner’s actions. If he refunds my money to David’s and receives his points back from DVC, I simply can’t understand why David’s wouldn’t refund me. The original contract is distressed. Cancel it and let us all move on. I’d gladly forego David’s commission, just give me back the rest!

Failing that best case, I’d be cautiously open to this credit system, but not with the conditions attached. Going forward, I’d want to know when my next batch of rented points expire (all future DVC renters should start insisting on this info, IMO), and retain the right to rebook or otherwise receive compensation of some sort in the event of a resort closure.

But after a lot of thought and reading on this topic, these two scenarios are all I’m interested in. Anything else and I’ll take my chances with a chargeback. I don’t want to put David’s in a tougher spot than they’re in, I really don’t. But I also need to protect my own interests. We all do!

Totally agree with all stated. Vacations aren't supposed to be a spin on the roulette table. My wife and I jumped on this forum to confirm are perspective as a renter is not crazy or unheard-of. This whole situation should have been handled in a different way.

I have a banquet business and couldn't imagine telling brides that their date has come and gone, but they can rebook; however, if our venue is closed upon 2nd booking - WE KEEP THE MONEY FOR NO SERVICES. I'd be out of the wedding business in a few months.

 

[Marionnette]

In our case, we have a May 10 check-in that still shows up in MDE. My understanding is that DVC is only cancelling reservations on a rolling basis 5 days out from check-in. So I expect the owner has been smart and not cancelled my res on his own, so that this coming Tuesday the reservation will be cancelled by DVC. This means the owner will then receive his points back from DVC, and though his points have not been extended (I have learned from David’s that these points are borrowed from a Nov 2018 UY, so not eligible for the recent April and June 2018 UY extensions), he still has until the end of November 2020 this year to use them. That’s a six month window from a presumed June re-opening. Not bad for him.

So will ‘my’ owner re-book these points for his own use by November 2020? Will he rent them to someone else? I have no idea. All I know for certain is I’ve paid $1,000’s for these points, and right now the owner has either 70% of my money and David’s the other 30%; or David’s has all of it.

So what do I want to happen?

My first preference would be to know the owner’s actions. If he refunds my money to David’s and receives his points back from DVC, I simply can’t understand why David’s wouldn’t refund me. The original contract is distressed. Cancel it and let us all move on. I’d gladly forego David’s commission, just give me back the rest!

Failing that best case, I’d be cautiously open to this credit system, but not with the conditions attached. Going forward, I’d want to know when my next batch of rented points expire (all future DVC renters should start insisting on this info, IMO), and retain the right to rebook or otherwise receive compensation of some sort in the event of a resort closure.

But after a lot of thought and reading on this topic, these two scenarios are all I’m interested in. Anything else and I’ll take my chances with a chargeback. I don’t want to put David’s in a tougher spot than they’re in, I really don’t. But I also need to protect my own interests. We all do!

DVC is returning points to the UY that they came from when the reservation was made. It doesn’t matter whether the owner cancels or DVC does it. So, the owner is not “being smart” by allowing the reservation to stand.

If the owner cancels the reservation, the renter is entitled to a cash refund, not a voucher. David’s is discouraging owners from canceling and asking them to allow DVC to do it. That way, David’s can say that “it’s no one’s fault but here, let me offer you, the renter, a voucher”. But on the other end, they are trying to strong arm the owner into either re-renting the points or returning the money by claiming that the contract has been “frustrated”.

 

[Grumpy by Birth]

Going forward, I’d want to know when my next batch of rented points expire (all future DVC renters should start insisting on this info, IMO)

This goes back to the question of whether you are paying for a certain NUMBER of points or a specific SET of points. If the former, expiration shouldn't matter because if those points expire, the owner should still be on the hook to provide a reservation using additional points if necessary. Some have asserted that the renter is renting the specific points and they must be used by the renter before they expire.

At the risk of sounding like a broken record, this gets further complicated by the broker's 3-way contract. The broker DID know the status of those points. Did he pay the owner for the expiring points specifically or for that many points in general?

I would venture a guess that many points in the rental market are to some degree "distressed." Some owners may plan well in advance to rent points they know they won't be using that year, but it's probably fairly often that they are renting specifically because they are going to lose the points due to expiration.

 

[Bowen Family]

DVC is returning points to the UY that they came from when the reservation was made. It doesn’t matter whether the owner cancels or DVC does it. So, the owner is not “being smart” by allowing the reservation to stand.

If the owner cancels the reservation, the renter is entitled to a cash refund, not a voucher. David’s is discouraging owners from canceling and asking them to allow DVC to do it. That way, David’s can say that “it’s no one’s fault but here, let me offer you, the renter, a voucher”. But on the other end, they are trying to strong arm the owner into either re-renting the points or returning the money by claiming that the contract has been “frustrated”.

I could have been clearer, but yes, this is exactly what I’m referring to when I said the owner was smart to leave the reservation and let DVC cancel it, lest they owe me a refund.