Davids DVC: Rental reimbursement or rescheduling?

[McCrae]

I have read nearly every post. Please feel free to educate me.

Read them all.

Buy insurance next time.

 

[McCrae]

The difference in this case is that the renter isn't cancelling, the resort is closed so the reservation is cancelled for the renter, and they cannot go on the trip they booked. It's not the same situation as someone cancelling because they lost their job; someone in travel group died; they are getting divorced etc.

As for insurance, does travel insurance cover this situation? I think some posters have indicated it does not. If insurance will pay out for this, then maybe I agree with you, renters risk, they should have bought insurance, but if not, I disagree.

Not all will do, but some do.

 

[McCrae]

.

 

[Cyberc1978]

Are you aware CFAR policies are prohibited in some states?
That they are not paying off either?
Or to the extent they do anything they require someone to actually be sick with C19?
Are you an insurance agent?

No I’m not aware. I’m located in Europe.

Insurance agent sometimes is wish but no I’m a banker.

early in with the virus I did a google search for CFAR and the first I found I looked up all the terms and read them. They didn’t exclude pandemics or similar. To be honest I dont recall the name.

 

[starry_solo]

So as a FYI, there are different policies in Europe than in the US. Perhaps some policies in Europe cover pandemics but we have yet to find any, including CFAR policies, that cover pandemics in the USA.

 

[LAX]

Read them all.

Buy insurance next time.

More importantly, buy the RIGHT insurance next time.

LAX

 

[Cyberc1978]

So as a FYI, there are different policies in Europe than in the US. Perhaps some policies in Europe cover pandemics but we have yet to find any, including CFAR policies, that cover pandemics in the USA.

That’s true but I looked up the ones in the US.

 

[McCrae]

So as a FYI, there are different policies in Europe than in the US. Perhaps some policies in Europe cover pandemics but we have yet to find any, including CFAR policies, that cover pandemics in the USA.

You might find this article useful.

https://www.aarp.org/travel/travel-tips/safety/info-2020/insurance-coronavirus-coverage.html

 

[LAX]

So as a FYI, there are different policies in Europe than in the US. Perhaps some policies in Europe cover pandemics but we have yet to find any, including CFAR policies, that cover pandemics in the USA.

This is veering way OT, but some of you are overcomplicating this. If you somehow can't find an insurance company to offer a policy that covers your DVC rental for any reason, then just book direct with Disney! The difference you pay is a form of "insurance." You will get your money back if another pandemic ends up closing the resorts. Heck, you can cancel up until a few days before check-in even if you just don't feel like going any more.

The obvious dilemma is whether you are willing to pay the difference (usually not a small amount) in exchange for the protection. Like I mentioned many pages ago, renting DVC has risks and ALL renters need to be comfortable with taking on the risks, or at least be willing to take some measures to mitigate those risks.

LAX

 

[DGsAtBLT]

If it turns out that renters are overall successful with chargebacks, seems to me that's just as good of a cover your "rear" measure as an insurance that covers this scenario, a huge benefit of buying stuff with credit cards. Again that points to the intermediary as the one who did a poor job of considering the risks of renting points out.

 

[Noodlez]

So as a FYI, there are different policies in Europe than in the US. Perhaps some policies in Europe cover pandemics but we have yet to find any, including CFAR policies, that cover pandemics in the USA.

I’m also based in Europe. I’d never heard of CFAR policies before this situation but I always have annual travel insurance and add on as many eventualities as I can to cover whatever may happen. I started doing this as a lot of people (a few years ago) found they weren’t covered for ash clouds. I wanted to make sure I was covered for things out of my control, and it wasn’t much more to do so.

The insurance I have wouldn’t cover if I just decided to cancel it myself, but it covers most other eventualities. Someone asked people to name companies, so mine is https://www.insureandgo.com/. Obviously, you can’t take it out for Covid now, but no insurance will let you cover after the fact.

Edited to add: I’m not in any way trying to promote that company, or even say how good they are. There was an earlier post saying that no one was willing to name companies so I have done.

 

[Pluto777]

As I mentioned in my prior opinion, I never worked in any way with David's specifically - either as a renter or owner, but another broker which I used (I am not able to post the name here) does have insurance that SOME of my family paid for. They did and do offer a "cancel for cancel reason" policy "no questions asked" IF you want to pay for it which some members of my family insisted on signing up for. They never used it, but it gave them piece of mind which they said made it worth it for them, and I have no doubt they would have given me a LOT of "I told you so" criticism had a snag come up and i was forced to change plans without insurance. - and maybe they would have been 100% right to do so. Again I am not aware of how it works over at David's.

As to the choice I made not to take the CFAR policy, I did not sign up for it because I (perhaps foolishly) viewed it as a very remote possibility. It was pure luck that I turned out to be correct, and I do sympathize with those who have lost money in this mess. It was a bit of a gamble, but I accepted that because I felt the risk was remote. Had things not worked out for me I was absolutely 100% prepared financially and mentally to accept the financial loss just as I was when I took an even greater financial risk by buying into DVC.

I have cancelled vacations and had to pay airline 'penalty fees' of thousands of dollars because I did not have CFAR insurance. I did not get angry, but simply took the hit and moved on. I saw the money spent on the airfare and rented points as 'already spent money' whether we went or not. Again just recently and for the 2nd year in aa row I lost some money on plane ticket 'penalty fees' that I did not insure and I viewed the penalty itself as a type of insurance on the tickets, so again I paid up and moved on. I always try to familiarize myself on the cancellation policy of any trip/vacation I take, the likelihood of a cancellation and factor it in to decide if I should insure or not. So yes, it was 100% a type of gamble when I rented points and didn't take CFAR insurance from the unnamed broker I decided to use and that was my original point. I accepted that risk as part of the savings and that was it.


Again, I never worked with David's and so I really can't comment on how they are handling things one way or the other or even what their policy is. However I would say that in my opinion (for whatever thats worth!) as a buyer for any large cost trip, you should always check such things and decide if and what travel insurance you need.

 

[CanAdianDad]

Read them all.

Buy insurance next time.

As you love stating ”buy insurance” you know owners could do the same to protect their points should they expire in the event that they weren’t able to provide the agreed upon reservation And are due to provide a refund as they did not live up to their end of the contract by closing the resort. I think that both owners and renters can easily point the finger at David’s in this case as he promised protection to both sides. As most can attest, insurance is not the answer for renters.

 

[Dracula]

Can anyone think of any reason David’s would resist contacting the owner about deferring my reservation for 1 year? That’s what I’ve asked them to do and am awaiting a response. Our 1 week AKL stay is mid-May 2020, so technically not yet cancelled, but I want to be pro-active about asking the owner to try on June 1, 2020 to re-book our 1 week stay for May 2021. Seems a very simple way to resolve this, as the # of points and booking season are the same. No voucher, no refunds, just a deferral. Any thoughts on how David’s will respond. Because this is the only solution I’m interested in. If they refuse to act as my “intermediary” on this, we’ll just initiate a chargeback. Hope it doesn’t come to that.

The solution you are suggesting is not optimum, in David's eyes, for a few reasons:
- Mid-May DVC reservations have not yet been canceled, and according to your contract, the reservation cannot be canceled or changed. You would need to wait for Disney to cancel it - they are doing it approximately one week ahead.
- A reservation next May can be a different number of points, and points are $1 more expensive this year anyway. So an even exchange may not be possible, David would like you to redeem the voucher and pay the difference.
- The earliest the reservation can be re-booked is mid-June, and this is only if the owner has AKL points. Otherwise it is mid-October, with no guarantee of availability.
- As other people mentioned, the points may not be usable next year. David is currently asking owners to verify point status after cancelation by Disney - doing it before is not always obvious.
- From David's standpoint, if the owner's points can be re-rented, he would rather re-rent them now to someone else and book you later with someone else's fresh points - booking you with the exact same points, even if possible, may not produce the best match.
- Finally, if both you and the owner realize how easy is to get in touch, make reservations and change them, would you still go through David next time? You are jeopardizing his business model.

 

[LAX]

As you love stating ”buy insurance” you know owners could do the same to protect their points should they expire in the event that they weren’t able to provide the agreed upon reservation And are due to provide a refund as they did not live up to their end of the contract by closing the resort. I think that both owners and renters can easily point the finger at David’s in this case as he promised protection to both sides. As most can attest, insurance is not the answer for renters.

That "insurance" would be David's from owners' perspective. The commission he makes should be more than just match-making.

LAX

 

[Disaseny]

As I mentioned in my prior opinion, I never worked in any way with David's specifically - either as a renter or owner, but another broker which I used (I am not able to post the name here) does have insurance that SOME of my family paid for. They did and do offer a "cancel for cancel reason" policy "no questions asked" IF you want to pay for it which some members of my family insisted on signing up for. They never used it, but it gave them piece of mind which they said made it worth it for them, and I have no doubt they would have given me a LOT of "I told you so" criticism had a snag come up and i was forced to change plans without insurance. - and maybe they would have been 100% right to do so. Again I am not aware of how it works over at David's.

As to the choice I made not to take the CFAR policy, I did not sign up for it because I (perhaps foolishly) viewed it as a very remote possibility. It was pure luck that I turned out to be correct, and I do sympathize with those who have lost money in this mess. It was a bit of a gamble, but I accepted that because I felt the risk was remote. Had things not worked out for me I was absolutely 100% prepared financially and mentally to accept the financial loss just as I was when I took an even greater financial risk by buying into DVC.

I have cancelled vacations and had to pay airline 'penalty fees' of thousands of dollars because I did not have CFAR insurance. I did not get angry, but simply took the hit and moved on. I saw the money spent on the airfare and rented points as 'already spent money' whether we went or not. Again just recently and for the 2nd year in aa row I lost some money on plane ticket 'penalty fees' that I did not insure and I viewed the penalty itself as a type of insurance on the tickets, so again I paid up and moved on. I always try to familiarize myself on the cancellation policy of any trip/vacation I take, the likelihood of a cancellation and factor it in to decide if I should insure or not. So yes, it was 100% a type of gamble when I rented points and didn't take CFAR insurance from the unnamed broker I decided to use and that was my original point. I accepted that risk as part of the savings and that was it.


Again, I never worked with David's and so I really can't comment on how they are handling things one way or the other or even what their policy is. However I would say that in my opinion (for whatever thats worth!) as a buyer for any large cost trip, you should always check such things and decide if and what travel insurance you need.

I am okay with losing the money as it was only me going for 4 nights and less than 1k.....I am still going for a chargeback, but if that fails, I won't take their travel voucher. I just don't trust the company any longer. From the way he botched this and their deleting of negative comments and reviews on Facebook, it shows me what type of company they really are. He needs to be able to take the good and the bad.

 

[cmrdgrs]

I presume David’s would know status of these points, and obviously that’s out of theirs and the owner’s hands. I’m hoping that with the policy change yesterday from DVC, expired points becomes less a problem for re-booking (though obviously still a possibility that I’d have to accept).

I don't presume that at all. His actions IMO do not support this knowledge.

 

[yankeesfan123]

Does not matter that things have worked flawlessly for years or not. You always need to plan for the unexpected. If you don’t you have to be a man and suck it up.

I’ve been traveling for more than 20 years not once did I go without insurance.

I’ve looked it up early in and at least one travelers insurance covered. You need to buy a CFAR. I would however expect that they at least won’t cover Covid-19 anymore.

Hi. The vast majority of insurances do not cover this. Just like business insurances. Just not covered under a typical insurance policy.

And actually, now that COVID-19 is foreseeable, many contracts sold now WOULD automatically cover it.

 

[LAX]

I don't presume that at all. His actions IMO do not support this knowledge.

I believe I have read somewhere that David is a DVC owner himself. Thus, I think he should have at least decent knowledge of the system. In fact, he might even know the system so well that he can use it to his/his business' advantage, which doesn't necessarily align with the best interests of other owners or renters.

LAX

 

[McCrae]

As you love stating ”buy insurance” you know owners could do the same to protect their points should they expire in the event that they weren’t able to provide the agreed upon reservation And are due to provide a refund as they did not live up to their end of the contract by closing the resort. I think that both owners and renters can easily point the finger at David’s in this case as he promised protection to both sides. As most can attest, insurance is not the answer for renters.

The contract the renter signed accepted a no refunds, or changes clause. This is why they needed insurance if they were not happy with this risk. It’s harsh, but renters could have taken steps to remove this risk and have to take responsibility for not doing it.

Owners risk Is different to renters because they signed a different contract with the broker. Yes insurance is an option an owner should consider. It’s likely to be a different type of insurance than the renter, probably a policy covering critical illness and or loss of income. If as an Owner you don’t protect yourself you can only blame you, no one else.