Davids DVC: Rental reimbursement or rescheduling?

[McCrae]

If you're able to use the extended points for yourself or rent them to someone else privately, I think you might have to return the 70% to David's to avoid running afoul of "double dipping" rules. Characterizing using the extended points as going on a FREE vacation would seem to violate that rule.

There is no such rule.

 

[Cyberc1978]

If you're able to use the extended points for yourself or rent them to someone else privately, I think you might have to return the 70% to David's to avoid running afoul of "double dipping" rules. Characterizing using the extended points as going on a FREE vacation would seem to violate that rule.

Assuming David’s tried to stick it to me I don’t think he would do anything to pursue this. If he did it would fall back on him too.

 

[Cyberc1978]

I see this point. David wants me as the owner to continue to do work for his company, he isn't giving up his commission, but I'm suppose to jump through hoops for free for him and as he stated in his own email "work tirelessly" to help his business survive.

I actually think with this new solution with extended points and David’s treating owners badly will bite him in the a.. since owners with expired points now get them back.

Why should owners work with David’s and not use the points themselves?

 

[Sandisw]

I see this point. David wants me as the owner to continue to do work for his company, he isn't giving up his commission, but I'm suppose to jump through hoops for free for him and as he stated in his own email "work tirelessly" to help his business survive.

If I am asked to reschedule, I will not do it for free, I will expect the additional $1 per point he will be charging the renter. If not, I’ll pull my points and refund the money and wash my hands of it...of course, this is only if the resort is closed. If it is open, renter either goes or I keep the 70% and the points.

 

[Pluto777]

..

 

[Pluto777]

If I am asked to reschedule, I will not do it for free, I will expect the additional $1 per point he will be charging the renter. If not, I’ll pull my points and refund the money and wash my hands of it...of course, this is only if the resort is closed. If it is open, renter either goes or I keep the 70% and the points.

This is probably going to be an unpopular opinion, but here goes the "sorry folks, the moose for renting DVC points shoulda told ya" opinion (if any of you saw the old National Lampoon's "Vacation" with Chevy Chase you get the paraphrased joke).

Maybe many of you out there are like myself; but the first time I heard about 'renting points' to get a huge discount at WDW I was skeptical and wasn't sure if I even believed it was real. I was worried it might be a scam, what if we showed up (it was a huge family trip) after spending thousands and there was a problem? It almost sounded too good to be true - but the low price was too tempting. As it turned out for us, & probably many of you, it has been a fantastic cost saver for most of us who have saved thousands on vacations by renting DVC points vs cash stays through WDW direct.

I understood as soon as I read about renting DVC points that there WAS some risk when it came to cancellations compared to a cash stay, and that this was the the other side of the coin of the huge financial savings. Well, guess what? It seems that the risk has finally arrived. I sympathize with all those renters of points from a broker who did not buy insurance, but when you signed the contract, did you not know there was an element of risk versus paying more to book directly through Disney for cash? Did you carefully read the contract to rent points and accept the fact that you were getting a huge discount in exchange for giving up some of the cancellation policies of a cash stay?

I have been both a renter AND an owner, so I understand from both perspectives. While I never worked specifically with Davids, we rented points from other brokers and I have to say that there WAS an option to pay for insurance IN CASE of cancellation on the website we used. One family group took the insurance, the other did not. I don't know if Davids mentions insurance or not, but when I looked into using them to rent, I'm pretty sure I remember at least ASKING them about insurance. Remember, the whole idea behind renting points is that you save a TON OF $$$$ vs a WDW cash stay. In many cases we checked out, it was such a huge discount we we're suspicious and we DID inquire about travel insurance (and as I said some of us bought it).

Maybe I am a bit old school, but my philosophy is you don't get something for nothing. If you are paying $360 a night for a comparable room that is offered direct for $780 a night then IMO have to be willing to accept certain things that you are NOT getting with that discount, OR you have to be WILLLING TO BUY ADDITIONAL INSURANCE protection.

Cash direct through WDW gives a what IMO are VERY generous cancellation terms. Yes you pay extra for it, but you are guaranteed by the "Mouse himself" that what you pay for with only what I believe is a 5 day cancellation notice. Can you REALLY argue you are entitled to the same protection that a person who paid premium rack rate to WDW directly should get when you spent only half that amount by renting DVC points and opting NOT to buy insurance protection? Of COURSE I feel bad for any renter or owner affected by this mess - this is afterall a nightmare across the world and many people are losing far more than vacations and money. Heck, EVEN WDW cash ressies have that 5 day rule, so on SOME level there is ALWAYS going to be some element of risk (natural disasters, airline/travel problems, last minute illness, PANDEMICS etc) when you commit to a hugely expensive vacation - how much MORE so if you opt NOT to pay for travel insurance?

When you sign a contract I believe you MUST read the TERMS of that contract, and although I am not a lawyer, it was pretty clear to me that by renting DVC points and NOT paying the higher cash price directly to WDW we we're taking on some added risk vs a cash through WDW stay. Is there less risk from a broker vs an individual? I don't know. I suppose it depends on which broker used and which individual used. I do know though that the more $$ put on the table, whether its to buy OR rent DVC points, the more you risk losing if there is a 'bump in the road' for your vacation without travel insurance. As I said, I have NEVER used David's, but I have used other brokers and I have to say, I WAS just a little bit nervous that someone might get a last minute illness, a flight delay, bad weather etc etc. However I was WILLING TO ACCEPT THAT RISK because I saved about 60% off the cost of a cash booking directly through WDW to rent our points. Just as I also accepted the financial risks of DVC ownership. Should I have also paid for tavel insurance when I rented? Probably. But when you get on a plane and fly 25,000 feet in the air, are you not taking a risk? It's all a question of how much of a risk a person feels is REASONABLE vs the reward/savings of time or money on a vacation that they spend.

I leave to those who have contracts they signed with Davids and the experts out there who understand those contracts that specific problem. I of COURSE personally feel bad for EVERYONE, renters, owners AND Davids who are losing and will lose here. After all, literally everyone on earth is hurting from this COVID nightmare. Vacations have been lost and people are stressed out. Some owners are losing points for personal family reservations, Disney is getting hurt, brokers are getting hurt etc etc. Some friends of mine who own at DVC have told me because they lost banked points that were due to expire soon they have lost points. Is someone 'reimbursing' them? No. What happens to owners who invested in DVC? What happens to cast Members who lose jobs? What happens to flights that were paid for and lost? This thing is a mess and for sure, some people are going to lose something.

While this is a board dealing with vacations to a place we all love, the REAL suffering out there are people who are sick or dying, people who have lost jobs and livelihoods lost. We must not over look these far more serious problems and accept that were all hurting. That said, this a board about Disney vacations so I believe that when you sign a contract, you should be held to whatever you signed up for. If you took a risk in exchange for a discount, then is it really fair to complain if an unforeseen event comes up, and you are now held to that contract after you decided NOT to buy insurance?

I personally did NOT buy travel insurance a huge family trip (though some family did) and was lucky enough that we had a great time with no problems, but IF this or some other disaster had come up to scuttle our travel plans, I was 100% mentally prepared and was willing to accept the financial loss because it was MY gamble that I took NOT to buy the insurance vs saving thousands on the trip. I knew the risks of renting points, I accepted that risk and if I had lost money because I chose NOT to pay for the insurance I was prepared to accept the loss. Just my opinion..

 

[dsnymnkyuncle]

This is probably going to be an unpopular opinion, but here goes the "sorry folks, the moose for renting DVC points shoulda told ya" opinion (if any of you saw the old National Lampoon's "Vacation" with Chevy Chase you get the paraphrased joke).

Maybe many of you out there are like myself; but the first time I heard about 'renting points' to get a huge discount at WDW I was skeptical and wasn't sure if I even believed it was real. I was worried it might be a scam, what if we showed up (it was a huge family trip) after spending thousands and there was a problem? It almost sounded too good to be true - but the low price was too tempting. As it turned out for us, & probably many of you, it has been a fantastic cost saver for most of us who have saved thousands on vacations by renting DVC points vs cash stays through WDW direct.

I understood as soon as I read about renting DVC points that there WAS some risk when it came to cancellations compared to a cash stay, and that this was the the other side of the coin of the huge financial savings. Well, guess what? It seems that the risk has finally arrived. I sympathize with all those renters of points from a broker who did not buy insurance, but when you signed the contract, did you not know there was an element of risk versus paying more to book directly through Disney for cash? Did you carefully read the contract to rent points and accept the fact that you were getting a huge discount in exchange for giving up some of the cancellation policies of a cash stay?

I have been both a renter AND an owner, so I understand from both perspectives. While I never worked specifically with Davids, we rented points from other brokers and I have to say that there WAS an option to pay for insurance IN CASE of cancellation on the website we used. One family group took the insurance, the other did not. I don't know if Davids mentions insurance or not, but when I looked into using them to rent, I'm pretty sure I remember at least ASKING them about insurance. Remember, the whole idea behind renting points is that you save a TON OF $$$$ vs a WDW cash stay. In many cases we checked out, it was such a huge discount we we're suspicious and we DID inquire about travel insurance (and as I said some of us bought it).

Maybe I am a bit old school, but my philosophy is you don't get something for nothing. If you are paying $360 a night for a comparable room that is offered direct for $780 a night then IMO have to be willing to accept certain things that you are NOT getting with that discount, OR you have to be WILLLING TO BUY ADDITIONAL INSURANCE protection.

Cash direct through WDW gives a what IMO are VERY generous cancellation terms. Yes you pay extra for it, but you are guaranteed by the "Mouse himself" that what you pay for with only what I believe is a 5 day cancellation notice. Can you REALLY argue you are entitled to the same protection that a person who paid premium rack rate to WDW directly should get when you spent only half that amount by renting DVC points and opting NOT to buy insurance protection? Of COURSE I feel bad for any renter or owner affected by this mess - this is afterall a nightmare across the world and many people are losing far more than vacations and money. Heck, EVEN WDW cash ressies have that 5 day rule, so on SOME level there is ALWAYS going to be some element of risk (natural disasters, airline/travel problems, last minute illness, PANDEMICS etc) when you commit to a hugely expensive vacation - how much MORE so if you opt NOT to pay for travel insurance?

When you sign a contract I believe you MUST read the TERMS of that contract, and although I am not a lawyer, it was pretty clear to me that by renting DVC points and NOT paying the higher cash price directly to WDW we we're taking on some added risk vs a cash through WDW stay. Is there less risk from a broker vs an individual? I don't know. I suppose it depends on which broker used and which individual used. I do know though that the more $$ put on the table, whether its to buy OR rent DVC points, the more you risk losing if there is a 'bump in the road' for your vacation without travel insurance. As I said, I have NEVER used David's, but I have used other brokers and I have to say, I WAS just a little bit nervous that someone might get a last minute illness, a flight delay, bad weather etc etc. However I was WILLING TO ACCEPT THAT RISK because I saved about 60% off the cost of a cash booking directly through WDW to rent our points. Just as I also accepted the financial risks of DVC ownership. Should I have also paid for tavel insurance when I rented? Probably. But when you get on a plane and fly 25,000 feet in the air, are you not taking a risk? It's all a question of how much of a risk a person feels is REASONABLE vs the reward/savings of time or money on a vacation that they spend.

I leave to those who have contracts they signed with Davids and the experts out there who understand those contracts that specific problem. I of COURSE personally feel bad for EVERYONE, renters, owners AND Davids who are losing and will lose here. After all, literally everyone on earth is hurting from this COVID nightmare. Vacations have been lost and people are stressed out. Some owners are losing points for personal family reservations, Disney is getting hurt, brokers are getting hurt etc etc. Some friends of mine who own at DVC have told me because they lost banked points that were due to expire soon they have lost points. Is someone 'reimbursing' them? No. What happens to owners who invested in DVC? What happens to cast Members who lose jobs? What happens to flights that were paid for and lost? This thing is a mess and for sure, some people are going to lose something.

While this is a board dealing with vacations to a place we all love, the REAL suffering out there are people who are sick or dying, people who have lost jobs and livelihoods lost. We must not over look these far more serious problems and accept that were all hurting. That said, this a board about Disney vacations so I believe that when you sign a contract, you should be held to whatever you signed up for. If you took a risk in exchange for a discount, then is it really fair to complain if an unforeseen event comes up, and you are now held to that contract after you decided NOT to buy insurance?

I personally did NOT buy travel insurance a huge family trip (though some family did) and was lucky enough that we had a great time with no problems, but IF this or some other disaster had come up to scuttle our travel plans, I was 100% mentally prepared and was willing to accept the financial loss because it was MY gamble that I took NOT to buy the insurance vs saving thousands on the trip. I knew the risks of renting points, I accepted that risk and if I had lost money because I chose NOT to pay for the insurance I was prepared to accept the loss. Just my opinion..

I would be really happy to see the names of the wonderful insurance companies you speak of. To what I have read almost none are paying off over C19. My understanding, since I never bought the coverage since it really did't cover anything (last year traveling with 7 months pregnant dil) is even Disney insurance that directly links to Disney is no longer covering C19

 

[yankeesfan123]

This is probably going to be an unpopular opinion, but here goes the "sorry folks, the moose for renting DVC points shoulda told ya" opinion (if any of you saw the old National Lampoon's "Vacation" with Chevy Chase you get the paraphrased joke).

Maybe many of you out there are like myself; but the first time I heard about 'renting points' to get a huge discount at WDW I was skeptical and wasn't sure if I even believed it was real. I was worried it might be a scam, what if we showed up (it was a huge family trip) after spending thousands and there was a problem? It almost sounded too good to be true - but the low price was too tempting. As it turned out for us, & probably many of you, it has been a fantastic cost saver for most of us who have saved thousands on vacations by renting DVC points vs cash stays through WDW direct.

I understood as soon as I read about renting DVC points that there WAS some risk when it came to cancellations compared to a cash stay, and that this was the the other side of the coin of the huge financial savings. Well, guess what? It seems that the risk has finally arrived. I sympathize with all those renters of points from a broker who did not buy insurance, but when you signed the contract, did you not know there was an element of risk versus paying more to book directly through Disney for cash? Did you carefully read the contract to rent points and accept the fact that you were getting a huge discount in exchange for giving up some of the cancellation policies of a cash stay?

I have been both a renter AND an owner, so I understand from both perspectives. While I never worked specifically with Davids, we rented points from other brokers and I have to say that there WAS an option to pay for insurance IN CASE of cancellation on the website we used. One family group took the insurance, the other did not. I don't know if Davids mentions insurance or not, but when I looked into using them to rent, I'm pretty sure I remember at least ASKING them about insurance. Remember, the whole idea behind renting points is that you save a TON OF $$$$ vs a WDW cash stay. In many cases we checked out, it was such a huge discount we we're suspicious and we DID inquire about travel insurance (and as I said some of us bought it).

Maybe I am a bit old school, but my philosophy is you don't get something for nothing. If you are paying $360 a night for a comparable room that is offered direct for $780 a night then IMO have to be willing to accept certain things that you are NOT getting with that discount, OR you have to be WILLLING TO BUY ADDITIONAL INSURANCE protection.

Cash direct through WDW gives a what IMO are VERY generous cancellation terms. Yes you pay extra for it, but you are guaranteed by the "Mouse himself" that what you pay for with only what I believe is a 5 day cancellation notice. Can you REALLY argue you are entitled to the same protection that a person who paid premium rack rate to WDW directly should get when you spent only half that amount by renting DVC points and opting NOT to buy insurance protection? Of COURSE I feel bad for any renter or owner affected by this mess - this is afterall a nightmare across the world and many people are losing far more than vacations and money. Heck, EVEN WDW cash ressies have that 5 day rule, so on SOME level there is ALWAYS going to be some element of risk (natural disasters, airline/travel problems, last minute illness, PANDEMICS etc) when you commit to a hugely expensive vacation - how much MORE so if you opt NOT to pay for travel insurance?

When you sign a contract I believe you MUST read the TERMS of that contract, and although I am not a lawyer, it was pretty clear to me that by renting DVC points and NOT paying the higher cash price directly to WDW we we're taking on some added risk vs a cash through WDW stay. Is there less risk from a broker vs an individual? I don't know. I suppose it depends on which broker used and which individual used. I do know though that the more $$ put on the table, whether its to buy OR rent DVC points, the more you risk losing if there is a 'bump in the road' for your vacation without travel insurance. As I said, I have NEVER used David's, but I have used other brokers and I have to say, I WAS just a little bit nervous that someone might get a last minute illness, a flight delay, bad weather etc etc. However I was WILLING TO ACCEPT THAT RISK because I saved about 60% off the cost of a cash booking directly through WDW to rent our points. Just as I also accepted the financial risks of DVC ownership. Should I have also paid for tavel insurance when I rented? Probably. But when you get on a plane and fly 25,000 feet in the air, are you not taking a risk? It's all a question of how much of a risk a person feels is REASONABLE vs the reward/savings of time or money on a vacation that they spend.

I leave to those who have contracts they signed with Davids and the experts out there who understand those contracts that specific problem. I of COURSE personally feel bad for EVERYONE, renters, owners AND Davids who are losing and will lose here. After all, literally everyone on earth is hurting from this COVID nightmare. Vacations have been lost and people are stressed out. Some owners are losing points for personal family reservations, Disney is getting hurt, brokers are getting hurt etc etc. Some friends of mine who own at DVC have told me because they lost banked points that were due to expire soon they have lost points. Is someone 'reimbursing' them? No. What happens to owners who invested in DVC? What happens to cast Members who lose jobs? What happens to flights that were paid for and lost? This thing is a mess and for sure, some people are going to lose something.

While this is a board dealing with vacations to a place we all love, the REAL suffering out there are people who are sick or dying, people who have lost jobs and livelihoods lost. We must not over look these far more serious problems and accept that were all hurting. That said, this a board about Disney vacations so I believe that when you sign a contract, you should be held to whatever you signed up for. If you took a risk in exchange for a discount, then is it really fair to complain if an unforeseen event comes up, and you are now held to that contract after you decided NOT to buy insurance?

I personally did NOT buy travel insurance a huge family trip (though some family did) and was lucky enough that we had a great time with no problems, but IF this or some other disaster had come up to scuttle our travel plans, I was 100% mentally prepared and was willing to accept the financial loss because it was MY gamble that I took NOT to buy the insurance vs saving thousands on the trip. I knew the risks of renting points, I accepted that risk and if I had lost money because I chose NOT to pay for the insurance I was prepared to accept the loss. Just my opinion..

Not an unpopular opinion. It just shows that you don’t understand how this process has worked essentially flawlessly for decades. Trip insurance likely doesn’t help. Most wont. And a global pandemic is something that no layperson ever saw as a real possibility.

So you can have your opinion. I fully understand that if I got sick and couldn’t go, then I’d have to eat the money. Or if I got a new job and wasn’t allowed to go, no problem. No problem at all.

But here we have a broker with a completely void contract who is not acting with consistency and is only acting in his best interest.

 

[Cyberc1978]

This is probably going to be an unpopular opinion, but here goes the "sorry folks, the moose for renting DVC points shoulda told ya" opinion (if any of you saw the old National Lampoon's "Vacation" with Chevy Chase you get the paraphrased joke).

Maybe many of you out there are like myself; but the first time I heard about 'renting points' to get a huge discount at WDW I was skeptical and wasn't sure if I even believed it was real. I was worried it might be a scam, what if we showed up (it was a huge family trip) after spending thousands and there was a problem? It almost sounded too good to be true - but the low price was too tempting. As it turned out for us, & probably many of you, it has been a fantastic cost saver for most of us who have saved thousands on vacations by renting DVC points vs cash stays through WDW direct.

I understood as soon as I read about renting DVC points that there WAS some risk when it came to cancellations compared to a cash stay, and that this was the the other side of the coin of the huge financial savings. Well, guess what? It seems that the risk has finally arrived. I sympathize with all those renters of points from a broker who did not buy insurance, but when you signed the contract, did you not know there was an element of risk versus paying more to book directly through Disney for cash? Did you carefully read the contract to rent points and accept the fact that you were getting a huge discount in exchange for giving up some of the cancellation policies of a cash stay?

I have been both a renter AND an owner, so I understand from both perspectives. While I never worked specifically with Davids, we rented points from other brokers and I have to say that there WAS an option to pay for insurance IN CASE of cancellation on the website we used. One family group took the insurance, the other did not. I don't know if Davids mentions insurance or not, but when I looked into using them to rent, I'm pretty sure I remember at least ASKING them about insurance. Remember, the whole idea behind renting points is that you save a TON OF $$$$ vs a WDW cash stay. In many cases we checked out, it was such a huge discount we we're suspicious and we DID inquire about travel insurance (and as I said some of us bought it).

Maybe I am a bit old school, but my philosophy is you don't get something for nothing. If you are paying $360 a night for a comparable room that is offered direct for $780 a night then IMO have to be willing to accept certain things that you are NOT getting with that discount, OR you have to be WILLLING TO BUY ADDITIONAL INSURANCE protection.

Cash direct through WDW gives a what IMO are VERY generous cancellation terms. Yes you pay extra for it, but you are guaranteed by the "Mouse himself" that what you pay for with only what I believe is a 5 day cancellation notice. Can you REALLY argue you are entitled to the same protection that a person who paid premium rack rate to WDW directly should get when you spent only half that amount by renting DVC points and opting NOT to buy insurance protection? Of COURSE I feel bad for any renter or owner affected by this mess - this is afterall a nightmare across the world and many people are losing far more than vacations and money. Heck, EVEN WDW cash ressies have that 5 day rule, so on SOME level there is ALWAYS going to be some element of risk (natural disasters, airline/travel problems, last minute illness, PANDEMICS etc) when you commit to a hugely expensive vacation - how much MORE so if you opt NOT to pay for travel insurance?

When you sign a contract I believe you MUST read the TERMS of that contract, and although I am not a lawyer, it was pretty clear to me that by renting DVC points and NOT paying the higher cash price directly to WDW we we're taking on some added risk vs a cash through WDW stay. Is there less risk from a broker vs an individual? I don't know. I suppose it depends on which broker used and which individual used. I do know though that the more $$ put on the table, whether its to buy OR rent DVC points, the more you risk losing if there is a 'bump in the road' for your vacation without travel insurance. As I said, I have NEVER used David's, but I have used other brokers and I have to say, I WAS just a little bit nervous that someone might get a last minute illness, a flight delay, bad weather etc etc. However I was WILLING TO ACCEPT THAT RISK because I saved about 60% off the cost of a cash booking directly through WDW to rent our points. Just as I also accepted the financial risks of DVC ownership. Should I have also paid for tavel insurance when I rented? Probably. But when you get on a plane and fly 25,000 feet in the air, are you not taking a risk? It's all a question of how much of a risk a person feels is REASONABLE vs the reward/savings of time or money on a vacation that they spend.

I leave to those who have contracts they signed with Davids and the experts out there who understand those contracts that specific problem. I of COURSE personally feel bad for EVERYONE, renters, owners AND Davids who are losing and will lose here. After all, literally everyone on earth is hurting from this COVID nightmare. Vacations have been lost and people are stressed out. Some owners are losing points for personal family reservations, Disney is getting hurt, brokers are getting hurt etc etc. Some friends of mine who own at DVC have told me because they lost banked points that were due to expire soon they have lost points. Is someone 'reimbursing' them? No. What happens to owners who invested in DVC? What happens to cast Members who lose jobs? What happens to flights that were paid for and lost? This thing is a mess and for sure, some people are going to lose something.

While this is a board dealing with vacations to a place we all love, the REAL suffering out there are people who are sick or dying, people who have lost jobs and livelihoods lost. We must not over look these far more serious problems and accept that were all hurting. That said, this a board about Disney vacations so I believe that when you sign a contract, you should be held to whatever you signed up for. If you took a risk in exchange for a discount, then is it really fair to complain if an unforeseen event comes up, and you are now held to that contract after you decided NOT to buy insurance?

I personally did NOT buy travel insurance a huge family trip (though some family did) and was lucky enough that we had a great time with no problems, but IF this or some other disaster had come up to scuttle our travel plans, I was 100% mentally prepared and was willing to accept the financial loss because it was MY gamble that I took NOT to buy the insurance vs saving thousands on the trip. I knew the risks of renting points, I accepted that risk and if I had lost money because I chose NOT to pay for the insurance I was prepared to accept the loss. Just my opinion..

You are right it’s not a popular opinion but nonetheless it’s right but a lot of renters(not all) want to have the cake and eat it too.

I wonder if the same renters buy a stock and it suddenly tanks will they start complain too?

 

[Disaseny]

This is probably going to be an unpopular opinion, but here goes the "sorry folks, the moose for renting DVC points shoulda told ya" opinion (if any of you saw the old National Lampoon's "Vacation" with Chevy Chase you get the paraphrased joke).

Maybe many of you out there are like myself; but the first time I heard about 'renting points' to get a huge discount at WDW I was skeptical and wasn't sure if I even believed it was real. I was worried it might be a scam, what if we showed up (it was a huge family trip) after spending thousands and there was a problem? It almost sounded too good to be true - but the low price was too tempting. As it turned out for us, & probably many of you, it has been a fantastic cost saver for most of us who have saved thousands on vacations by renting DVC points vs cash stays through WDW direct.

I understood as soon as I read about renting DVC points that there WAS some risk when it came to cancellations compared to a cash stay, and that this was the the other side of the coin of the huge financial savings. Well, guess what? It seems that the risk has finally arrived. I sympathize with all those renters of points from a broker who did not buy insurance, but when you signed the contract, did you not know there was an element of risk versus paying more to book directly through Disney for cash? Did you carefully read the contract to rent points and accept the fact that you were getting a huge discount in exchange for giving up some of the cancellation policies of a cash stay?

I have been both a renter AND an owner, so I understand from both perspectives. While I never worked specifically with Davids, we rented points from other brokers and I have to say that there WAS an option to pay for insurance IN CASE of cancellation on the website we used. One family group took the insurance, the other did not. I don't know if Davids mentions insurance or not, but when I looked into using them to rent, I'm pretty sure I remember at least ASKING them about insurance. Remember, the whole idea behind renting points is that you save a TON OF $$$$ vs a WDW cash stay. In many cases we checked out, it was such a huge discount we we're suspicious and we DID inquire about travel insurance (and as I said some of us bought it).

Maybe I am a bit old school, but my philosophy is you don't get something for nothing. If you are paying $360 a night for a comparable room that is offered direct for $780 a night then IMO have to be willing to accept certain things that you are NOT getting with that discount, OR you have to be WILLLING TO BUY ADDITIONAL INSURANCE protection.

Cash direct through WDW gives a what IMO are VERY generous cancellation terms. Yes you pay extra for it, but you are guaranteed by the "Mouse himself" that what you pay for with only what I believe is a 5 day cancellation notice. Can you REALLY argue you are entitled to the same protection that a person who paid premium rack rate to WDW directly should get when you spent only half that amount by renting DVC points and opting NOT to buy insurance protection? Of COURSE I feel bad for any renter or owner affected by this mess - this is afterall a nightmare across the world and many people are losing far more than vacations and money. Heck, EVEN WDW cash ressies have that 5 day rule, so on SOME level there is ALWAYS going to be some element of risk (natural disasters, airline/travel problems, last minute illness, PANDEMICS etc) when you commit to a hugely expensive vacation - how much MORE so if you opt NOT to pay for travel insurance?

When you sign a contract I believe you MUST read the TERMS of that contract, and although I am not a lawyer, it was pretty clear to me that by renting DVC points and NOT paying the higher cash price directly to WDW we we're taking on some added risk vs a cash through WDW stay. Is there less risk from a broker vs an individual? I don't know. I suppose it depends on which broker used and which individual used. I do know though that the more $$ put on the table, whether its to buy OR rent DVC points, the more you risk losing if there is a 'bump in the road' for your vacation without travel insurance. As I said, I have NEVER used David's, but I have used other brokers and I have to say, I WAS just a little bit nervous that someone might get a last minute illness, a flight delay, bad weather etc etc. However I was WILLING TO ACCEPT THAT RISK because I saved about 60% off the cost of a cash booking directly through WDW to rent our points. Just as I also accepted the financial risks of DVC ownership. Should I have also paid for tavel insurance when I rented? Probably. But when you get on a plane and fly 25,000 feet in the air, are you not taking a risk? It's all a question of how much of a risk a person feels is REASONABLE vs the reward/savings of time or money on a vacation that they spend.

I leave to those who have contracts they signed with Davids and the experts out there who understand those contracts that specific problem. I of COURSE personally feel bad for EVERYONE, renters, owners AND Davids who are losing and will lose here. After all, literally everyone on earth is hurting from this COVID nightmare. Vacations have been lost and people are stressed out. Some owners are losing points for personal family reservations, Disney is getting hurt, brokers are getting hurt etc etc. Some friends of mine who own at DVC have told me because they lost banked points that were due to expire soon they have lost points. Is someone 'reimbursing' them? No. What happens to owners who invested in DVC? What happens to cast Members who lose jobs? What happens to flights that were paid for and lost? This thing is a mess and for sure, some people are going to lose something.

While this is a board dealing with vacations to a place we all love, the REAL suffering out there are people who are sick or dying, people who have lost jobs and livelihoods lost. We must not over look these far more serious problems and accept that were all hurting. That said, this a board about Disney vacations so I believe that when you sign a contract, you should be held to whatever you signed up for. If you took a risk in exchange for a discount, then is it really fair to complain if an unforeseen event comes up, and you are now held to that contract after you decided NOT to buy insurance?

I personally did NOT buy travel insurance a huge family trip (though some family did) and was lucky enough that we had a great time with no problems, but IF this or some other disaster had come up to scuttle our travel plans, I was 100% mentally prepared and was willing to accept the financial loss because it was MY gamble that I took NOT to buy the insurance vs saving thousands on the trip. I knew the risks of renting points, I accepted that risk and if I had lost money because I chose NOT to pay for the insurance I was prepared to accept the loss. Just my opinion..

I agree with you to a point. yes, I saved money but I also bought trip insurance in case I needed to cancel. The issue comes is that I did not cancel. Something happened that closed the resort. Now I paid cash to DAvid's for a non existent reservation, and he is telling me I have two choices: accept his travel credit or keep my nonexistent resetvation. None of this is in my current contract. The contract says if accommodations are not available at time of arrival, due to the owner, I get a refund. Yes, I understand that the owner personally did not cancel the reservation, that Disney did. But he can't tell me that the owner did not cancel, and then tell the owner they need to give the 70% back to him, and claim that per a section of his contract with an owner, because they allow dvc to make decisions on the behalf of the owner, therefore the owner is liable for what Disney decided.
He is also telling me that the travel credit has no CASH value.WTH??? I paid him cash, of course it has cash value! It's not like he handed me a coupon for a free reservation. I paid him.

 

[McCrae]

I would be really happy to see the names of the wonderful insurance companies you speak of. To what I have read almost none are paying off over C19. My understanding, since I never bought the coverage since it really did't cover anything (last year traveling with 7 months pregnant dil) is even Disney insurance that directly links to Disney is no longer covering C19

If you read all of this thread you see comments from Renters that have been covered by insurance and have received payouts. It is available.

 

[Cyberc1978]

Not an unpopular opinion. It just shows that you don’t understand how this process has worked essentially flawlessly for decades. Trip insurance likely doesn’t help. Most wont. And a global pandemic is something that no layperson ever saw as a real possibility.

So you can have your opinion. I fully understand that if I got sick and couldn’t go, then I’d have to eat the money. Or if I got a new job and wasn’t allowed to go, no problem. No problem at all.

But here we have a broker will a completely void contract who is not acting with consistency and is only acting in his best interest.

Does not matter that things have worked flawlessly for years or not. You always need to plan for the unexpected. If you don’t you have to be a man and suck it up.

I’ve been traveling for more than 20 years not once did I go without insurance.

I’ve looked it up early in and at least one travelers insurance covered. You need to buy a CFAR. I would however expect that they at least won’t cover Covid-19 anymore.

 

[Cyberc1978]

I agree with you to a point. yes, I saved money but I also bought trip insurance in case I needed to cancel. The issue comes is that I did not cancel. Something happened that closed the resort. Now I paid cash to DAvid's for a non existent reservation, and he is telling me I have two choices: accept his travel credit or keep my nonexistent resetvation. None of this is in my current contract. The contract says I get a refund if accommodations are not available at time of arrival, due to the owner, I get a refund. Yes, I understand that the owner personally did not cancel the reservation, that Disney did. But he can't tell me that the owner did not cancel, and then tell the owner they need to give the 70% back to him, and claim that let a section of his contract with an owner, because they allow dv C to make deductions on the behalf of the owner, therefore the owner is liable for what Disney decided.
He is also telling me that the travel credit has no CASH value.WTH??? I paid home cash, of course it has cash value! It's not like he handed me a coupon for a free reservation. I paid him.

I’m not condoning David’s actions or behavior and I wouldn’t use him.

the pandemic is no ones fault that’s why you always need the CFAR insurance. At least some covered if they dont in the future you as a renter need to absorbe that risk. Absorbing the risk is part of the risk you take to save money.

No risk no glory or no risk no saving.

 

[dsnymnkyuncle]

You are right it’s not a popular opinion but nonetheless it’s right but a lot of renters(not all) want to have the cake and eat it too.

I wonder if the same renters buy a stock and it suddenly tanks will they start complain too?

You could have easily named the wonderful insurance company that would have covered this, but you didn't did you?
Even policies advertised to cover 'anything' and 'everything' have refused coverage. Are you posting about their keeping money for failing to cover what they promised?

 

[dsnymnkyuncle]

If you read all of this thread you see comments from Renters that have been covered by insurance and have received payouts. It is available.

I have read nearly every post. Please feel free to educate me.

 

[DGsAtBLT]

My insurance was ironically not complicated by COVID-19, but by David’s themselves and their backing off their no refunds policy.

 

[Yinn]

If you're able to use the extended points for yourself or rent them to someone else privately, I think you might have to return the 70% to David's to avoid running afoul of "double dipping" rules. Characterizing using the extended points as going on a FREE vacation would seem to violate that rule.

Depends on the situation.

1) There were some who weren’t paid - even though the resort was open. Some checked in, some didn’t. These people fulfilled their contract but weren’t paid the remaining 30%.

2) There were some who got advanced cancellation requests, when the resort was not yet declared closed. These people fulfilled their contract but weren’t paid the remaining 30%.

But if you’re in the bucket where the resort was closed, and you now have your points. Then I would tend to agree with you. Although, I’d tell Davids to pay me the 30% before I’d reschedule.

 

[dsnymnkyuncle]

Does not matter that things have worked flawlessly for years or not. You always need to plan for the unexpected. If you don’t you have to be a man and suck it up.

I’ve been traveling for more than 20 years not once did I go without insurance.

I’ve looked it up early in and at least one travelers insurance covered. You need to buy a CFAR. I would however expect that they at least won’t cover Covid-19 anymore.

Are you aware CFAR policies are prohibited in some states?
That they are not paying off either?
Or to the extent they do anything they require someone to actually be sick with C19?
Are you an insurance agent?

 

[DGsAtBLT]

It’s silly IMO to go down this whole renters should have known better, owners should have known better road again without talking about how David had established himself as the leader in this space building a relatively huge business, also without considering the risk or preparing for it.

As the intermediary who grew himself by promising easy transactions and low risk (for a fee), that’s where I place most of the responsibility.

 

[lawboy2001]

Cash direct through WDW gives a what IMO are VERY generous cancellation terms. Yes you pay extra for it, but you are guaranteed by the "Mouse himself" that what you pay for with only what I believe is a 5 day cancellation notice. Can you REALLY argue you are entitled to the same protection that a person who paid premium rack rate to WDW directly should get when you spent only half that amount by renting DVC points and opting NOT to buy insurance protection? rt etc etc. Some friends of mine who own at DVC have told me because they lost banked points that were due to expire soon they have lost points. Is someone 'reimbursing' them? No. What happens to owners who invested in DVC? What happens to cast Members who lose jobs? What happens to flights that were paid for and lost? This thing is a mess and for sure, some people are going to lose something.

I personally did NOT buy travel insurance a huge family trip (though some family did) and was lucky enough that we had a great time with no problems, but IF this or some other disaster had come up to scuttle our travel plans, I was 100% mentally prepared and was willing to accept the financial loss because it was MY gamble that I took NOT to buy the insurance vs saving thousands on the trip. I knew the risks of renting points, I accepted that risk and if I had lost money because I chose NOT to pay for the insurance I was prepared to accept the loss. Just my opinion..

The difference in this case is that the renter isn't cancelling, the resort is closed so the reservation is cancelled for the renter, and they cannot go on the trip they booked. It's not the same situation as someone cancelling because they lost their job; someone in travel group died; they are getting divorced etc.

As for insurance, does travel insurance cover this situation? I think some posters have indicated it does not. If insurance will pay out for this, then maybe I agree with you, renters risk, they should have bought insurance, but if not, I disagree.