Davids DVC: Rental reimbursement or rescheduling?

[LAX]

We are renters that have a May 23-30 reservation. This is our first time to rent, I am a teacher, and we have saved for 4 years to go on this trip with our kids. If Disney continues to stay closed during our trip, our trip insurance will not cover it. I’ve already looked into our policy and it does not cover a pandemic. I can only hope and pray that the owner is willing to work with us. If not, I will certainly never risk renting again and just book through Disney directly. I will also make it a point to let everyone I know not to rent as well. If it comes to it, I will follow through by trying to get a charge back with my credit card.

When booking, I fully accepted the no cancellations. However, this is in no fault of my own and I shouldn’t lose my hard earned money for nothing.

Not directing these comments at you in particular, but in general. Someone stands to lose something because of this unfortunate pandemic. IF DVC does nothing to help owners with reservations during the closure, is it then fair for the owners to lose their hard earned money for nothing? When owners decided to rent out their points for a DVC reservation, those points were worth whatever the renters were willing to pay. The renters thus essentially became "owners" of those points. Had those points been used for a reservation outside of the closures (or these uncertain times), there would have been no issues. Hence, to imply that someone other than the renters is at fault is unfair to those parties, IMHO.

LAX

 

[tellingson]

We are renters that have a May 23-30 reservation. This is our first time to rent, I am a teacher, and we have saved for 4 years to go on this trip with our kids. If Disney continues to stay closed during our trip, our trip insurance will not cover it. I’ve already looked into our policy and it does not cover a pandemic. I can only hope and pray that the owner is willing to work with us. If not, I will certainly never risk renting again and just book through Disney directly. I will also make it a point to let everyone I know not to rent as well. If it comes to it, I will follow through by trying to get a charge back with my credit card.

When booking, I fully accepted the no cancellations. However, this is in no fault of my own and I shouldn’t lose my hard earned money for nothing.

I agree with everything you mentioned above. We have been to WDW 5-6 times in the last 17 years but have always stayed in moderates and values. We always had trip insurance and never needed to file a claim. We have a split stay (2 contracts) for 10 days in early May that we rented 11 months ago. This is our first time renting and we are celebrating our 30th anniversary and my daughter's college graduation. I have already lost thousands of dollars because my other's daughter's study abroad was cut short and her trip insurance didn't cover the expenses.

Reading through this thread, I'm am struggling to understand the usefulness of trip insurance. Seems like a way to make you feel good about the what-ifs but don't actually protect in any substantial way.

 

[disneypharm]

Not directing these comments at you in particular, but in general. Someone stands to lose something because of this unfortunate pandemic. IF DVC does nothing to help owners with reservations during the closure, is it then fair for the owners to lose their hard earned money for nothing? When owners decided to rent out their points for a DVC reservation, those points were worth whatever the renters were willing to pay. The renters thus essentially became "owners" of those points. Had those points been used for a reservation outside of the closures (or these uncertain times), there would have been no issues. Hence, to imply that someone other than the renters is at fault is unfair to those parties, IMHO.

LAX

First of all, as a renter, I believe that this is completely my fault to be naive enough to feel that a trip insurance will cover me. I consider myself a very cautious person with my money.

If DVC does nothing to help owners, then it is on Disney. Owners will be losing their hard earned money if they decided to refund the renter. But I doubt it that Disney will not help the owners during this unfortunate pandemic.

If DVC returns points back to the owner, and the owner refuses to refund or change the reservation, then it will be on the owner. I understand that the contract clearly states nonrefundable,but this is an unusual circumstance. If a lot of owners refuse to refund or change their reservations (I have seen a few here), then we will have a lot of renters who will never rent again. I wonder what that would do to the rental market. I know if I were an owner, I will do everything in my power to help the renter reschedule.

 

[Sandisw]

Reading through this thread, I'm am struggling to understand the usefulness of trip insurance. Seems like a way to make you feel good about the what-ifs but don't actually protect in any substantial way.

I think the recommendation of travel insurance would be for typical situations that would occur for a renter when they would be prevented from going,

This situation seems to be not covered, including many of the CFAR policies.

It’s why such an issues because none of the contracts addressed resort closing. Now that it looks like Orange County will force cancellations until at least April 8 - 10 th, it’s going to become worse for the broker with more renters claiming contracts are void and filing complaints through CC.

 

[tellingson]

First of all, as a renter, I believe that this is completely my fault to be naive enough to feel that a trip insurance will cover me. I consider myself a very cautious person with my money.

If DVC does nothing to help owners, then it is on Disney. Owners will be losing their hard earned money if they decided to refund the renter. But I doubt it that Disney will not help the owners during this unfortunate pandemic.

If DVC returns points back to the owner, and the owner refuses to refund or change the reservation, then it will be on the owner. I understand that the contract clearly states nonrefundable,but this is an unusual circumstance. If a lot of owners refuse to refund or change their reservations (I have seen a few here), then we will have a lot of renters who will never rent again. I wonder what that would do to the rental market. I know if I were an owner, I will do everything in my power to help the renter reschedule.

So, from the perspective of an owner that occasionally rents out points, there are likely 2 main reasons that owners rent out points.
1. Points are nearing expiration and owner isn't going to use them.
2. Would rather have the cash for something else.

With respect to #1, if the points are nearing expiration, the owners are likely more limited in what they can do. Availability is an issue with everyone else cancelling and rebooking for later dates. Also, since you are likely going through a broker, communication is going to take longer which makes availability even harder. Delays from when you send what is available to the renter, to the time you get a response back, may change availability. In this case, I would just have the 2 parties get on a phone call if rebooking is an option (depending on point expiration) and try to figure something out.

If the owner falls #2, (which is typically me), I would expect that the owner can rebook the member. DVC is being pretty flexible with points right now for reservations in the March-Early April time frame as long as the owner puts forth some effort and the points aren't set to expire soon.

My two cents. If the owner is able to rebook, I think they should make every effort to do so. But realize that they are renting the points for a reason, and depending on the reason, their hands may be tied.

 

[tellingson]

I think the recommendation of travel insurance would be for typical situations that would occur for a renter when they would be prevented from going,

This situation seems to be not covered, including many of the CFAR policies.

It’s why such an issues because none of the contracts addressed resort closing. Now that it looks like Orange County will force cancellations until at least April 8 - 10 th, it’s going to become worse for the broker with more renters claiming contracts are void and filing complaints through CC.

Definitely going to be interesting. My next renters are in November, so I'm fairly confident that I won't have to change their reservation.

 

[disneypharm]

So, from the perspective of an owner that occasionally rents out points, there are likely 2 main reasons that owners rent out points.
1. Points are nearing expiration and owner isn't going to use them.
2. Would rather have the cash for something else.

With respect to #1, if the points are nearing expiration, the owners are likely more limited in what they can do. Availability is an issue with everyone else cancelling and rebooking for later dates. Also, since you are likely going through a broker, communication is going to take longer which makes availability even harder. Delays from when you send what is available to the renter, to the time you get a response back, may change availability. In this case, I would just have the 2 parties get on a phone call if rebooking is an option (depending on point expiration) and try to figure something out.

If the owner falls #2, (which is typically me), I would expect that the owner can rebook the member. DVC is being pretty flexible with points right now for reservations in the March-Early April time frame as long as the owner puts forth some effort and the points aren't set to expire soon.

My two cents. If the owner is able to rebook, I think they should make every effort to do so. But realize that they are renting the points for a reason, and depending on the reason, their hands may be tied.

Ok, Thank you for explaining the whole process. I understand that this is a very difficult time for all of us and hope that none of us have to go through this again.

 

[rkstocke5609]

So, from the perspective of an owner that occasionally rents out points, there are likely 2 main reasons that owners rent out points.
1. Points are nearing expiration and owner isn't going to use them.
2. Would rather have the cash for something else.

With respect to #1, if the points are nearing expiration, the owners are likely more limited in what they can do. Availability is an issue with everyone else cancelling and rebooking for later dates. Also, since you are likely going through a broker, communication is going to take longer which makes availability even harder. Delays from when you send what is available to the renter, to the time you get a response back, may change availability. In this case, I would just have the 2 parties get on a phone call if rebooking is an option (depending on point expiration) and try to figure something out.

If the owner falls #2, (which is typically me), I would expect that the owner can rebook the member. DVC is being pretty flexible with points right now for reservations in the March-Early April time frame as long as the owner puts forth some effort and the points aren't set to expire soon.

My two cents. If the owner is able to rebook, I think they should make every effort to do so. But realize that they are renting the points for a reason, and depending on the reason, their hands may be tied.

I’ll add #3: There are more than a few folks out there that own twice the number of points than they normally use. Simple example, owner has 200 points, with MF’s being $8/ point. Annual MF’s are $1600. Owner only uses 100 points annually and rents out the other 100 points and nets $1300 renting them for X and paying the broker fee. Now, the owner enjoys the 100 points they use at an annual cost of $300 in MF’s.

 

[Marionnette]

I’ll add #3: There are more than a few folks out there that own twice the number of points than they normally use. Simple example, owner has 200 points, with MF’s being $8/ point. Annual MF’s are $1600. Owner only uses 100 points annually and rents out the other 100 points and nets $1300 renting them for X and paying the broker fee. Now, the owner enjoys the 100 points they use at an annual cost of $300 in MF’s.

Owners who have an abundance of points that they routinely rent are typically not using a broker. They rent privately and cut out the middleman. It’s the owners who occasionally find themselves with an excess of points who turn to brokers.

 

[LAX]

First of all, as a renter, I believe that this is completely my fault to be naive enough to feel that a trip insurance will cover me. I consider myself a very cautious person with my money.

If DVC does nothing to help owners, then it is on Disney. Owners will be losing their hard earned money if they decided to refund the renter. But I doubt it that Disney will not help the owners during this unfortunate pandemic.

If DVC returns points back to the owner, and the owner refuses to refund or change the reservation, then it will be on the owner. I understand that the contract clearly states nonrefundable,but this is an unusual circumstance. If a lot of owners refuse to refund or change their reservations (I have seen a few here), then we will have a lot of renters who will never rent again. I wonder what that would do to the rental market. I know if I were an owner, I will do everything in my power to help the renter reschedule.

I suspect if DVC were to help out owners with expiring points (I haven't seen reports of any here on DIS), most of those owners would be willing to extend some assistance to their renters. However, keep in mind that some owners prefer going through brokers (and leave some money on the table in doing so) because it's normally a relatively painless process, so they may not be able or willing to stalk for availability that's suitable to the renters.

I agree it would be greedy for owners to keep the rent if DVC were to somehow reimburse them for the points. Unfortunately, there are definitely some people that would take advantage of this unfortunate situation just like there are still plenty of scammers out there now.

LAX

 

[rkstocke5609]

Owners who have an abundance of points that they routinely rent are typically not using a broker. They rent privately and cut out the middleman. It’s the owners who occasionally find themselves with an excess of points who turn to brokers.

Interesting. Of course, no one has statistics on this so it’s really just a matter of opinion. I still think that some want the buffer of the broker. Some people don’t want that direct personal relationship with a renter IMHO.

 

[cvjw]

Owners who have an abundance of points that they routinely rent are typically not using a broker. They rent privately and cut out the middleman. It’s the owners who occasionally find themselves with an excess of points who turn to brokers.

We never use our 450 dvc points, and have rented them out thru David’s for several years. We don’t want the hassle of doing it ourselves and have always used David’s service to have someone to help us if things went south with a renter. We always have been willing to pay his fee for the extra peace of mind if a renter damaged a villa or left a unpaid bill.

No more. After this latest experience, we will be using our points or giving to friends and family to use. Or maybe just sell the contracts.

 

[RNicole1]

Not directing these comments at you in particular, but in general. Someone stands to lose something because of this unfortunate pandemic. IF DVC does nothing to help owners with reservations during the closure, is it then fair for the owners to lose their hard earned money for nothing? When owners decided to rent out their points for a DVC reservation, those points were worth whatever the renters were willing to pay. The renters thus essentially became "owners" of those points. Had those points been used for a reservation outside of the closures (or these uncertain times), there would have been no issues. Hence, to imply that someone other than the renters is at fault is unfair to those parties, IMHO.

LAX

If anything, I think the renter and owner should each get 50%. That way they each “lose” something for nothing...

 

[fsjking]

Just interested how many owners would be as firm on their "No refunds" stance if they had their own vacation during this time period and Disney told them they wouldn't return their points or if they did and expired before the resorts re-opened.

 

[Matty B13]

Just interested how many owners would be as firm on their "No refunds" stance if they had their own vacation during this time period and Disney told them they wouldn't return their points or if they did and expired before the resorts re-opened.

Any owner who travels past their banking deadline, and towards the end of their UY knows, or should know, that they can lose their points “no refunds“. This is what most renters don’t understand.

 

[fsjking]

Any owner who travels past their banking deadline, and towards the end of their UY knows, or should know, that they can lose their points “no refunds“. This is what most renters don’t understand.

I missed the "only accept reservations from owners who are early in their UY" check box on David's application page.

If you know better than to hold your points till the end of your UY, isn't it unethical to transfer that onto an unknowing renter?

 

[LAX]

Just interested how many owners would be as firm on their "No refunds" stance if they had their own vacation during this time period and Disney told them they wouldn't return their points or if they did and expired before the resorts re-opened.

I sort of touched on this topic in another thread. It appears that DVC has been returning points to owners whose reservations have been impacted by closure. However, some of these points now have limited "shelf life" and so far DVC hasn't granted any exception to extend them. Hence, are owners supposed to absorb these losses?

As I mention earlier, if DVC/Disney is willing to help owners (no guarantee at this point), then I think they should be more flexible with renters. Other than that, why should the owners be burdened with the risks associated with using those points, which are supposed to be transferred to renters.

I think I have read in another thread that someone brought up an analogy about someone selling gift certificates for a restaurant to another person at a discount. When that restaurant goes out of business before the gift certificates can be redeemed, should the person who purchased the certificates be reimbursed by the person who sold them?

LAX

 

[Matty B13]

If you know better than to hold your points till the end of your UY, isn't it unethical to transfer that onto an unknowing renter?

I actually make it quite clear to anyone who rents from me directly, when the points are good from and when they expire, and there are no refunds no matter what. This is the benefit with renting from an owner directly. I’ve actually directed renters to other owners who might have a better chance of filling their requests with less risk. If you check out the Rental threads you will see on several posts owners doing the same for inexperienced renters.

 

[LAX]

I missed the "only accept reservations from owners who are early in their UY" check box on David's application page.

If you know better than to hold your points till the end of your UY, isn't it unethical to transfer that onto an unknowing renter?

I don't think it's necessarily unethical as long as it's made clear that a reservation is nonrefundable under any circumstances. Even if those points are current UY and the reservation is relatively early in the UY, the renters shouldn't "expect" to be able to make changes to the reservation just because those points still have a relatively long shelf life. It's a risk that renters assume just like most other financial transactions in life.

LAX

 

[Sandisw]

Just interested how many owners would be as firm on their "No refunds" stance if they had their own vacation during this time period and Disney told them they wouldn't return their points or if they did and expired before the resorts re-opened.

Read the many threads and you will find owners who believe DVC needs to make it right and don’t seem to accept the rules of our contract.

The rules are clear in our contract. Traveling the end of UY is risky. But many feel the rules should be changed.

So, posts here about no refunds means no refunds, taking a hard stance with renters regarding of resort closure, are the exact opposite when owners are talking about their own lost points.