DAS changes coming WDW May 20/ DL June 18, 2024

[theMoreDisneytheBetter]

I was thinking about requirements and the ADA. Making something wheelchair accessible is very easy to judge - either there is a way to reach a destination or there isn’t. Likewise a sign language interpreter for someone who is deaf, or a braille map for someone who is blind, are quite obvious accommodations to make. But what makes a line “inaccessible” at a theme park to someone with developmental disabilities is much more subjective. I’m sure it is here somewhere but what exactly is required by law?

I ask because people are complaining so much about the changes to DAS, but it seems like Disney is still going above and beyond what is legally required, and to the extent that the portion of the population with disabilities continues to grow, it will only put more and more strain on an already overtaxed system. It makes sense that Disney would want to put as many people as possible back into the SB lines.

 

[nalababybear]

I was thinking about requirements and the ADA. Making something wheelchair accessible is very easy to judge - either there is a way to reach a destination or there isn’t. Likewise a sign language interpreter for someone who is deaf, or a braille map for someone who is blind, are quite obvious accommodations to make. But what makes a line “inaccessible” at a theme park to someone with developmental disabilities is much more subjective. I’m sure it is here somewhere but what exactly is required by law?

I ask because people are complaining so much about the changes to DAS, but it seems like Disney is still going above and beyond what is legally required, and to the extent that the portion of the population with disabilities continues to grow, it will only put more and more strain on an already overtaxed system. It makes sense that Disney would want to put as many people as possible back into the SB lines.

Or find a way forward that suits all stakeholders beyond traditional standby queue. VQ for all perhaps? They would have to reengineer a lot of crowd management if they ever pull that lever

 

[lanejudy]

I asked the CM if she was going to make any type of notation on my daughter's account and she said that there wasn't any need.

This would be correct. However the CM's response was not. Disney is moving away from accommodations "for the disabled" and shifting into more open accommodations available to anyone who needs it. Much like a ramp is most likely in place specifically for a wheelchair user but anybody can use the ramp. These Attraction Queue Re-entry accommodations are available to all guests who may need to leave the queue.

we did not have to give a detailed explanation to any of the in park CMs.

That's good to know. It aligns with what I expected but seeing your first-hand report is great!

Because we were in MK, several rides are not wheelchair accessible and those had to admit us into the accessible (usually lightning lane) either immediately or give a return time (which I think has been an ongoing procedure).

Yes, wheelchair return times have been in place for over a decade.
Can I assume it was just the 2 of your in your party -- you and your daughter? I think that comes into play with the accommodation you were offered and not having to actually enter the queue. The mobility device may or may not have played a part in that as well, depending on the attraction.

Thank you for the report and follow-up!

 

[cat4hurricane]

Huh?

TSA Cares is available at airports to help with disabilities if a person is unable to wait in line. A person can fill out a form in advance or ask for special help when they arrive.
I can't speak for all the airlines, but the airlines have staff on hand to help as well. So you go to the airline check-in, and a staff member escorts the person as needed.

While I’ve never used TSA Cares, I am planning on using someone on staff to help me for my flight in a couple of days. I’ve got a layover in the Nashville airport that takes a while, and I’ve never been, so my plan is to track someone down and ask them to help me navigate. I’ve also done that for my first time in the Atlanta airport, and honestly, if you just explain that you’ve never been here, I’ve never had someone from TSA or the airport staff turn me down in terms of getting me to where I need to be. Airports can be super large and the signage can get super confusing sometimes, so I’ve found it’s better to ask someone and be guided to where I need to go rather than running around the airport and hoping I get where I need to be. Once I get all settled at my gate, then I go get food and figure out my entertainment.

 

[lanejudy]

But what makes a line “inaccessible” at a theme park to someone with developmental disabilities is much more subjective. I’m sure it is here somewhere but what exactly is required by law?

Theme park queue accessibility -- or even queue accessibility in general -- is really not specified within any written part of the ADA. At least not to my knowledge. I think the GAC-to-DAS lawsuit might be the only official ruling specifically on the matter of queues. Some might look into other rulings related to the entertainment industry for some guidance, but as has been discussed here there isn't really as much standing in line required for many/most other entertainment options.

 

[g3pak]

Our most recent trip was end of April/start of May - so before any of this took effect. I am going to tell this story only because it may relieve a touch of anxiety for someone somewhere.

We are in line for that newish Mickey/Minnie runaway railway ride. It's a posted 45 minutes, so snack/bathroom out of the way. After about 10 minutes in line we saw half of a party a couple rows away disappear. A few minutes later they rejoined. The family in front of us had grandpa on an ECV, he had to get out and everyone moved/unchained things and people happily let him out. A bathroom emergency came up in my family and two disappeared. While they were gone, we passed a switch point where everyone helped "grandpa" come back (that family didn't speak English, and amazingly a bunch of hot sweaty people standing in the sun still all worked together to help) Second half of my group returned a good 15-20 minutes after leaving us.
Nobody complained. People came and went. Nobody even interrogated to check status of disability or really cared beyond someone had to go potty.

I don't think just because Disney has officially stated people should be doing this it would be any worse. I know half of the issue of leaving the line is the anxiety of leaving the line, but we all adjust once we have to do things. Obviously solo it will be a bit different, and you are more likely to need someone, but I would remain calm about how strongly anyone is going to interrogate you unless it happens, at which point I would seek out guest services the next time it's an option.

Last summer we were in line for FOP at the end of the day. Long standby line. As we passed the restrooms halfway through the queue we saw probably 10 people waiting in line. I reminded my family "all of those people were originally ahead of us, so they are all coming through at some point." We never care about people coming up the lines- unless it is a group of 8 teenagers obviously just joining a friend that grabbed a spot in line. I did not notice as we passed, but almost all seemed to either be from the same large family/group or multiple families that were Spanish speakers. Most were preteen/teen/young adult women. They came back through in pairs and my almost fluent Spanish speaking daughter enjoyed answering them in Spanish as they passed. A pair of mid-20's women about 6 people in front of us were getting frustrated about the traffic and and I heard one said to the other "If anyone else comes through, I am blocking their way." I thought that was ridiculous. The next pair were two pre-teens and did not seem to speak a word of English, at least based on our interaction as they passed. The young woman in front of us blocked their way, ignoring their requests to get through. The two girls were so sweet asking in Spanish to be excused to pass. Their dad took notice and here he came. I wish I had a video! The guy was huge, obviously works out, and his face said it all. The young woman saw him coming when he was 15 feet away and she sheepishly stepped to the side. Dad stared down the young woman and did not take his eyes off of her, even as his girls passed him. He locked in on the woman for several more seconds, then finally turned around and joined his family. What made it awkward was the switchbacks because the dad and the woman passed each other a few more times. We closely watched each time as the dad would bow up and stare the woman down and she just turned away to avoid his gaze.

I share that story to encourage this- if someone is making their way through a line, just assume it is for a good reason and smile and say "good day" as they pass. Even a group of 8 teenagers that appear to be line cutting, well, they may really have a legit reason and just smile and nod and go about your day.

 

[jlundeen]

While I’ve never used TSA Cares, I am planning on using someone on staff to help me for my flight in a couple of days. I’ve got a layover in the Nashville airport that takes a while, and I’ve never been, so my plan is to track someone down and ask them to help me navigate. I’ve also done that for my first time in the Atlanta airport, and honestly, if you just explain that you’ve never been here, I’ve never had someone from TSA or the airport staff turn me down in terms of getting me to where I need to be. Airports can be super large and the signage can get super confusing sometimes, so I’ve found it’s better to ask someone and be guided to where I need to go rather than running around the airport and hoping I get where I need to be. Once I get all settled at my gate, then I go get food and figure out my entertainment.

I have used the Wheelchair Service (free) for flights now for a few years. Basically, at least with Delta, it's a box you check when making a reservation.... they will ask what level (only to gate, down the flyway to the door of plane, or all the way to your seat?). At the airport, after checking bags, the desk attendant will direct you to the wheelchair assistance area, and someone there will scan tickect, and get you through TSA and to you plane.

We discovered this by accident on a trip home from Europe after I had broken my toe, and was limping badly. The desk agent suggested it, and told us where to find the wheelchair assistance. Once in their care, we got to our plane, they met us at Paris CDG at the plane door, and got us to the next flight (lucky for us as that place is HUGE and we were clueless!!), and then they met us at the plane door in Minneapolis and took us through customs and actually all the way out to the parking ramp.

We gave each attendant a really good tip - this is a service I will always use in the future, and am so thankful that it's there. (Others in my party were capable of walking and carrying their carry-on bag, but the wheelchair had a shelf under the seat for mine).

I have used it on several trips now from MSP to ORD, and back again!

 

[mickeyluv'r]

That poster was responding to a conversation about being 3-5 minutes from a bathroom.

I know that.

If someone has difficulty waiting in a long line due to a medical condition, TSACares has the ability to help them bypass the long wait so they can get to a restroom.

"Travelers requiring special accommodations or concerned about the security screening process at the airport may ask a TSA officer or supervisor for a passenger support specialist who can provide on-the-spot assistance.:

In any event, the person made multiple assumptions based on ignorance of programs like TSACares. Ignorance of a disability program doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

In general, if someone has a need due to a disability, then their caregivers will most often find creative solutions. If they frequently need to use a restroom, but they have to navigate a highway- they would probably avoid rush hour as much as possible, research restroom options along their route, and possibly carry something like a portable urinal or portable commode/bedpan.

Amazon even sells inflatable bedpans!

But it would take a very long post to explain all the options to all the situations raised in that post. Also, every community offers different programs and services, and it often takes a good deal of time to research them.

 

[mickeyluv'r]

We all know that people expect, through largely Disney's fault, short short waits.

You said Universal's Express Program doesn't guarantee short waits, but suggested G+ does. It doesn't.

I've used both programs extensively. If you haven't tried EP, I highly recommend it.

 

[mickeyluv'r]

While I’ve never used TSA Cares, I am planning on using someone on staff to help me for my flight in a couple of days. I’ve got a layover in the Nashville airport that takes a while, and I’ve never been, so my plan is to track someone down and ask them to help me navigate. I’ve also done that for my first time in the Atlanta airport, and honestly, if you just explain that you’ve never been here, I’ve never had someone from TSA or the airport staff turn me down in terms of getting me to where I need to be. Airports can be super large and the signage can get super confusing sometimes, so I’ve found it’s better to ask someone and be guided to where I need to go rather than running around the airport and hoping I get where I need to be. Once I get all settled at my gate, then I go get food and figure out my entertainment.

Thanks, that's largely what I was trying to say. I've also had great experiences with airport staff being helpful. (Well, 99% of the time.)

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

You said Universal's Express Program doesn't guarantee short waits, but suggested G+ does. It doesn't.

I've used both programs extensively. If you haven't tried EP, I highly recommend it.

Methinks you're interpreting something that isn't here. My comment was Universal never has promised super fast waits, it's not built that way and they have not strayed from their EP program; meanwhile Disney has has a different system every time I have visited.

Over at Disney they've built over time the expectation that you won't wait very long regardless. A salient point to many poster's comments is the very fact that the LL wait is too high in the last several years thus those who do qualify for DAS are no longer getting a high enough benefit nor are other guests who purchase either ILL or Genie+. The guests expects it, Disney knows this, Disney has over time prioritized their get ahead of the line line heavily and suggested reports put Genie+/ILL as even higher ratio than FP+ was (I've heard 90/10 ratio with Genie+/ILL over 80/20 with FP+ but these are of course numbers floated around by person after person).

We really don't need to get into the nitty gritty on Universal vs WDW on this point as there have been several threads over time covering that subject with the pros and cons. But it was in response to a poster mentioning the higher waits with EP over at Universal.

I've used EP before thanks. Probably a different thread for more talk shop on this.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Dad stared down the young woman and did not take his eyes off of her, even as his girls passed him. He locked in on the woman for several more seconds, then finally turned around and joined his family. What made it awkward was the switchbacks because the dad and the woman passed each other a few more times. We closely watched each time as the dad would bow up and stare the woman down and she just turned away to avoid his gaze.

I wish people wouldn't be like this though especially given your description of this guy who was big using that against younger women. What he did was in the end very creepy and unsettling regardless if he thought he was defending his family. I agree with you FWIW and a language barrier getting back through was probably made tougher by that but intimidation tactics like that are why people can end up going to blows over it. In the end it's not worth it for either party.

I feel like if someone does ends up feeling unfairly treated in line such as getting back to their party discuss with a CM when you reach one (cameras also exist all over), your party if they don't see you when they get up to the loading area or merge point can also wait to IF you had to (preferable if the alternative is a fight ensuing either verbal or physical).

When we were in Navi where there's that snack cart it went two different ways. One party the kids paid and meandered back to their parents, the other the party waived on people to go in front of them until the other member of their party was done paying for their drink.

I do think that perhaps if Disney does ever retrofit more attractions to have a bathroom in the queue people will become more accustomed to that situation coming up, in general that is, not that you would never have a situation occur. I think knowing the bathroom was there in FOP did make it easier for me to assume someone coming back through the line was just there or in Navi with the snack cart to assume they had just gotten snacks while already having been in line.

 

[lanejudy]

If someone has difficulty waiting in a long line due to a medical condition, TSACares has the ability to help them bypass the long wait so they can get to a restroom.

Yes accommodations are available -- either "formally" like TSA Cares or just adjusting for our own needs. However, a PP was claiming they never need accommodation anywhere except at a theme park because everywhere else they are always within 3-5 minutes of a restroom. Maybe that person wasn't considering that making adjustments within their own life (such as driving routes and/or times of travel) is "accommodations" but we all do so every day in various ways.

And am I the only person who has ever sat on a runway for greater than 5 minutes waiting to take off? Most flights it's easily 10-15 minutes from when the door to the plane closes and passengers are required to remain seated with the seatbelt fastened, until the plane is in the air and passengers are allowed to get up for the restroom. I want to know where the flights are that get you up in the air so quickly...?

 

[cat4hurricane]

Just checked MK wait times, either a lot of people are eating rn, or somethings going on because none of the rides are over a 55 minute wait, including 7DMT, Peter Pan and Space. That’s really good numbers and I know we’re getting close to the point where New DAS restrictions are going to be the only one offered (all the older registrations being timed out).

 

[KrzyKtty101]

Theme park queue accessibility -- or even queue accessibility in general -- is really not specified within any written part of the ADA. At least not to my knowledge. I think the GAC-to-DAS lawsuit might be the only official ruling specifically on the matter of queues. Some might look into other rulings related to the entertainment industry for some guidance, but as has been discussed here there isn't really as much standing in line required for many/most other entertainment options.

Disney won that ruling correct?

 

[lanejudy]

know we’re getting close to the point where New DAS restrictions are going to be the only one offered (all the older registrations being timed out).

Agree we are getting to the point that many in the parks are under the new rules. However many people who pre-registered for WDW just prior to May 20th may continue to have visits under the old rules for a month or so. DAS was usually approved for 30 days from the start of the visit, with pre-registration up to 30 days prior. An AP may have pre-registered on May 19th for a visit starting June 18th and still have an "old" DAS valid through July 18th -- more than a month from now. I expect by early July the number of "old" DAS in use will be dwindling quickly, not so much the next couple of weeks.

 

[lanejudy]

Disney won that ruling correct?

yes

 

[Kerr84]

Yes accommodations are available -- either "formally" like TSA Cares or just adjusting for our own needs. However, a PP was claiming they never need accommodation anywhere except at a theme park because everywhere else they are always within 3-5 minutes of a restroom. Maybe that person wasn't considering that making adjustments within their own life (such as driving routes and/or times of travel) is "accommodations" but we all do so every day in various ways.

And am I the only person who has ever sat on a runway for greater than 5 minutes waiting to take off? Most flights it's easily 10-15 minutes from when the door to the plane closes and passengers are required to remain seated with the seatbelt fastened, until the plane is in the air and passengers are allowed to get up for the restroom. I want to know where the flights are that get you up in the air so quickly...?

Maybe TMI, but my daughter has a track record of dirtying her diaper as soon as we aren’t allowed to get up! Not only do you sit on the runway for a while, they don’t turn off the seatbelt sign for a good 15-20 minutes once in the air. I’ve set in stench on almost every plane ride since she was born. It’s a running joke about how the change in air pressure gets to her.

 

[sunburnin]

In any event, the person made multiple assumptions based on ignorance of programs like TSACares. Ignorance of a disability program doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

In general, if someone has a need due to a disability, then their caregivers will most often find creative solutions. If they frequently need to use a restroom, but they have to navigate a highway- they would probably avoid rush hour as much as possible, research restroom options along their route, and possibly carry something like a portable urinal or portable commode/bedpan.

That was my post. You complained I was "making assumptions based on ignorance," then came out with this statement in bold.

Assuming that everyone with a disability has caregivers that find solutions for them?

I'm also well aware of TSACares, as my daughter uses it. Not everyone needs it; some choose not to get it and could end up in a line getting through security.

I was just listing out a bunch of scenarios we encounter daily in which people are suddenly shocked that they may have to do that at Disney.

The best part is that you completely backed up what I posted in the first place: that people find ways to plan around adverse situations in their daily lives.

 

[supergirl04]

Just checked MK wait times, either a lot of people are eating rn, or somethings going on because none of the rides are over a 55 minute wait, including 7DMT, Peter Pan and Space. That’s really good numbers and I know we’re getting close to the point where New DAS restrictions are going to be the only one offered (all the older registrations being timed out).

I am at MK today, and it is not very crowded.