culture wars and my DD(8)

[The Mystery Machine]

I am trying to remember when I let my younger dd read Twilight. I think she was 11 and in 5th grade, which was in 2008.

I will admit I was not thrilled with her reading the more mature book. However she had run thru all of the reg. books her age and it was clear she needed to go up to the next level, esp. since her lexile was at a high school level. I had to bite the bullet so to speak.

I let her read them and after that she moved onto "adult" literature, Stephen King, etc. She still reads the popular teen stuff, like Percy Jackson saga, etc, but for her she reads the book in less than 2hrs. She is not interested in reading vampire genre, it is not her thing.

As far as things "going over her head". Not in a million yrs. She always "got it". But that is her.

Bottom line, parent your kids how you think they should be parented. I can respect you "waiting" for your child to read "Twilight" (I did it myself), at the same token don't judge my kid for reading adult stuff at 13, like Stephen King. My dd is now reading at college level now, so the teen books just don't do it for her anymore.

ETA...
Just asked what she is reading in her "english free time", in which they read for 30mins a day in class and it is "Watership Down". She already read "The Plague Dogs" by the same author.

 

[luvsJack]

I am trying to remember when I let my younger dd read Twilight. I think she was 11 and in 5th grade, which was in 2008.

I will admit I was not thrilled with her reading the more mature book. However she had run thru all of the reg. books her age and it was clear she needed to go up to the next level, esp. since her lexile was at a high school level. I had to bite the bullet so to speak.

I let her read them and after that she moved onto "adult" literature, Stephen King, etc. She still reads the popular teen stuff, like Percy Jackson saga, etc, but for her she reads the book in less than 2hrs. She is not interested in reading vampire genre, it is not her thing.

As far as things "going over her head". Not in a million yrs. She always "got it". But that is her.

Bottom line, parent your kids how you think they should be parented. I can respect you "waiting" for your child to read "Twilight" (I did it myself), at the same token don't judge my kid for reading adult stuff at 13, like Stephen King. My dd is now reading at college level now, so the teen books just don't do it for her anymore.

ETA...
Just asked what she is reading in her "english free time", in which they read for 30mins a day in class and it is "Watership Down". She already read "The Plague Dogs" by the same author.

All kids are different. Some are able to handle certain subject matter at one age while another is not. I certainly don't think anyone should judge a kid or a parent for what a kid is reading (well, within some reason). Nor do I think any book should be banned from a child ever reading it.

My younger son was on an adult reading level at a young age, but there were just some books that the subject matter was not appropriate for him. So, he found lots of books to read that were within the appropriate boundaries (he was NEVER without reading material). My point being, that if a parent feels that a child is not ready for the subject matter of a certain book there are certainly plenty of other books on a higher reading level that can be chosen instead.

 

[The Mystery Machine]

All kids are different. Some are able to handle certain subject matter at one age while another is not. I certainly don't think anyone should judge a kid or a parent for what a kid is reading (well, within some reason). Nor do I think any book should be banned from a child ever reading it.

My younger son was on an adult reading level at a young age, but there were just some books that the subject matter was not appropriate for him. So, he found lots of books to read that were within the appropriate boundaries (he was NEVER without reading material). My point being, that if a parent feels that a child is not ready for the subject matter of a certain book there are certainly plenty of other books on a higher reading level that can be chosen instead.

I agree with you. My dd was ready by 5th grade to handle adult material with regards to reading. I hated to take that leap, but my kid needed to.

Now she has asked to read "Wicked" and I have not let her yet. The sexual things in it bug me. However she has been reading the "Dark Tower" series with Stephen King which is much worse I am sure. I have no interest in the Dark Tower series so have no desire to read it.

At least she asks and is respectful. She is a good kid.

 

[Indiana Rose Lee]

Kids in my dd's middleschool bootleg books to read from other students. These are 7th graders who are forbidden to read "occult" material like Harry Potter and other titles.

At 8yo, my dd was reading at that level. Now she is 13 and is reading Anne Rice and Stephen King.

I am trying to encourage her to read classic HS/college level books, to improve her writing.

I don't have an issue with older kids (like your 13 year old) reading anything. But 8 is still developmentally a child. They don't need that exposure to books like twilight, yet. Of course, you are right, kids do trade around. It doesn't need to be condoned or encouraged.

 

[mjkacmom]

I am trying to remember when I let my younger dd read Twilight. I think she was 11 and in 5th grade, which was in 2008.

I will admit I was not thrilled with her reading the more mature book. However she had run thru all of the reg. books her age and it was clear she needed to go up to the next level, esp. since her lexile was at a high school level. I had to bite the bullet so to speak.

I let her read them and after that she moved onto "adult" literature, Stephen King, etc. She still reads the popular teen stuff, like Percy Jackson saga, etc, but for her she reads the book in less than 2hrs. She is not interested in reading vampire genre, it is not her thing.

As far as things "going over her head". Not in a million yrs. She always "got it". But that is her.

Bottom line, parent your kids how you think they should be parented. I can respect you "waiting" for your child to read "Twilight" (I did it myself), at the same token don't judge my kid for reading adult stuff at 13, like Stephen King. My dd is now reading at college level now, so the teen books just don't do it for her anymore.

ETA...
Just asked what she is reading in her "english free time", in which they read for 30mins a day in class and it is "Watership Down". She already read "The Plague Dogs" by the same author.

I started reading King in the 6th grade - I would stay up all night to read! My dd13 read the Twilight series when it first came out - my only issue with is was the fact that it's awful! However, it got her to read (I read every single day). I actually gave her The Shining in the 5th grade, but it was too wordy for her. I find that if you start reading Stephen King early, you turn out to be a big reader later on, for some reason (I have a BA in English, thanks to reading).

 

[The Mystery Machine]

I don't have an issue with older kids (like your 13 year old) reading anything. But 8 is still developmentally a child. They don't need that exposure to books like twilight, yet. Of course, you are right, kids do trade around. It doesn't need to be condoned or encouraged.

They do. I remember my dd talking about a lot kids bootlegging HP back in elementary school.

They are still doing it in middle school.

It does have to deal with the religious background of the parents.

 

[Gabes_mommy]

OP - I agree with your decision on both counts. 8 is way too young to read Twilight. However instead of telling her she can never read that book I probbaly would have told her that I would allow it at a certain age - say 12 or 13? Honestly by then she probably won't be interested anymore and will have moved on to the newest trend.

My sister told my niece (who is now 17) that she was never allowed to read the Harry Potter books. I think that just made her want to read them more. She actually smuggled them home and read them all anyway.

 

[momz]

OP here

I appreciate the honest debate and reading other's views on this subject. And I have to say that the responses give a pretty clear picture of our reality. We live in a world of followers. And this thread shows that many parents will allow their children unencumberred access to any books in the interest of encouraging a love of reading. It seems that giving in to peer pressure to read something just because it is popular, (or is marketed as being popular), is the norm.

I also think that many posters fail to see a distinction between refusing to purchase something for an 8 year old and complete censorship of all things I disagree with throughout my daughter's childhood. I stated in my original post that I will not spend my money on such things. I did not say that she will NEVER READ IT!! But...she won't read it at 8. I don't know what her future interests will be, but I can say what my values are. And in this culture, your values are reflected in the way you spend your money.

 

[LoraJ]

OP here

I appreciate the honest debate and reading other's views on this subject. And I have to say that the responses give a pretty clear picture of our reality. We live in a world of followers. And this thread shows that many parents will allow their children unencumberred access to any books in the interest of encouraging a love of reading. It seems that giving in to peer pressure to read something just because it is popular, (or is marketed as being popular), is the norm.

I also think that many posters fail to see a distinction between refusing to purchase something for an 8 year old and complete censorship of all things I disagree with throughout my daughter's childhood. I stated in my original post that I will not spend my money on such things. I did not say that she will NEVER READ IT!! But...she won't read it at 8. I don't know what her future interests will be, but I can say what my values are. And in this culture, your values are reflected in the way you spend your money.

Actually, you said neither you or her would spend money on the books while she is under your roof. And it's not the mature themes of the book that repulses you, but the occult???? Still waiting for an answer about what is so offensive about it, occult-wise.

I totally understand having kids hold off on books with mature themes until they are older, but keeping them from fictional stories that involve fictional vampires and wizards is ludicrous.

 

[monkeybug]

Actually, you said neither you or her would spend money on the books while she is under your roof. And it's not the mature themes of the book that repulses you, but the occult???? Still waiting for an answer about what is so offensive about it, occult-wise.

Ha ha! No kidding!!
The scary part of Twilight is the completely unhealthy and pathetic way Bella is with Edward. That's the part that makes me when I think of my daughter reading it. No way do I want her to put that book down and walk away admiring that relationship.
Blood sucking vampires and werewolves with anger management issues? Puppy dogs compared to the real world issues our kids face!

 

[Indiana Rose Lee]

Ha ha! No kidding!!
The scary part of Twilight is the completely unhealthy and pathetic way Bella is with Edward. That's the part that makes me when I think of my daughter reading it. No way do I want her to put that book down and walk away admiring that relationship.
Blood sucking vampires and werewolves with anger management issues? Puppy dogs compared to the real world issues our kids face!

A hearty AMEN!

 

[lattemomof3]

I haven't read the responses, but I agree with you Momz. I think it's pretty sad how fast we are trying to get our kids to grow up, as a society. At 8 years old I DEFINATELY would not let my dd read the vampire books. I love the Twilight series, I just don't think my dd is ready for that yet (and she's 10). In a few years, jr. high, sure, she can read pretty much whatever she wants- it is not banning books to make sure such a young child is reading age appropriate literature. I have a teaching degree and think high school age students should be able to read anything they choose, but 8 is very young. I also will not let my kids do online chats, unless it is the Webkinz type where they choose from a list of responses. Face book or my space- in their DREAMS!!!!!!!! Again- there is a world of difference between a 4th grader and a 7th grader- let them be little!

 

[momz]

Actually, you said neither you or her would spend money on the books while she is under your roof. And it's not the mature themes of the book that repulses you, but the occult???? Still waiting for an answer about what is so offensive about it, occult-wise.

I totally runderstand having kids hold off on books with mature themes until they are older, but keeping them from fictional stories that involve fictional vampires and wizards is ludicrous.

I am asolutely certain that I will be flamed for this. But...you asked. And I ask that you read this with a modicum of respect and consider that some people in this world feel strongly about what they believe in. Please don't see this as an insult to you, or a judgement upon what you believe. Please see it as a statement of what I believe, and how I choose to live my life and raise my children.


"put on the whole armor of God, that you may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places" (Ephesians 6:11-12).

I realize that the characters in the books we are discussing seem innocent enough. My concern is that metaphorically dipping your toe into the water to see if it is warm can then be followed by diving right in. Again...I'm not saying that everyone who reads these books will ultimately result to consulting mediums. But, I cannot condone the occult on any level.

"There shall not be found among you anyone who makes his son or his daughter pass through the fire [an ancient occult practice], or one who practices witchcraft, or a soothsayer, or one who interprets omens, or a sorcerer, or one who conjures spells, or a medium, or a spiritist, or one who calls up the dead. For all who do these things are an abomination [detestable] to the LORD…”
-Deuteronomy 18:9-12a

 

[BCDisneyFanatic]

I appreciate the honest debate and reading other's views on this subject. And I have to say that the responses give a pretty clear picture of our reality. We live in a world of followers. And this thread shows that many parents will allow their children unencumberred access to any books in the interest of encouraging a love of reading. It seems that giving in to peer pressure to read something just because it is popular, (or is marketed as being popular), is the norm.

Yes, we do live in a world of 'followers'. Some people follow the belief that love of reading is a valuable gift that will last a lifetime. Others follow the belief that reading about the occult is wrong. Neither is any more or any less a 'follower' than the other.

While I respect your decision to limit your DDs choice of books to what you deem to be age-appropriate, I don't think that allowing a child to read a 'popular' book is 'giving in to peer-pressure'. Books are usually popular for a reason - they appeal to a certain demographic. Just like I'm more apt to go see a movie that my friends rave about, my children are more apt to read a book that their friends liked. This is not something new 'culturally', and I guess I just don't see anything wrong with that.

 

[pooh4evr]

I too have daughters- the oldest just turned 9 - she has asked about Twilight- which I have read- and I told her No to both the books and movies for now- she reads anything she can get her hands on and we have a hard time finding things for her to read without crossing into the "teen" world- American Girls are too easy, she read Wimpy Kid (the last one) in 1 afternoon- she likes Harry Potter (is on the 4th one) - but is also the kind of person who can read 4 books at once and keep everything straigt-- anyway back to Twilight - the reason I think she isn't ready is because of the relationship, and well she is scared of the Snow White ride at MK -- maybe in a couple of years though.-- I do fail to see where the "occult" is in the twilight books though.

Does anybody have some good books to recomend for about 5-6th grade level but yet appropriate for younger kids? (we are waiting for Percy Jackson to be returned to the library)

 

[wellesleyprincess]

I'm not a parent, but I am a teacher and a youth minister, so I do have some experience with things like this.

First, OP, I'm a little confused. I agree the books are inappropriate for an 8 year old; however, I'm not sure of your reasoning. At some points you say it is the occult that bothers you and at other points the sexual themes. If it's the occult, then I'm even more confused because you said you would let her read Harry Potter and Goosebumps. The Twilight series has even less to do with the occult than either of these series. Are you aware that one of the criticism of the book is the empasis on abstinence (until they are married in the fourth book) and that many have argued it is an allegory for Mormon conversion? I think being clear with your reasoning and/or a time line would have made your daughter more accepting of your decision.

I teach 6th grade in an elementary school and I do have a few students that read the Twilight series, but most of them are more advanced and mature. All the girls in my youth group have read them and we actually used them as the basis for a discussion on abstinence and sexual morality. We've also used Harry Potter and Lord of the Rings for discussions of good and evil and Christian journeys.

I do agree with trying to keep things age appropriate, but know that can be hard when a child is advanced. OP, I'd reccomend the American Girl mysteries (they're on a higher reading level and more exciting than the standard books).

 

[DVCLiz]

I am asolutely certain that I will be flamed for this. But...you asked. And I ask that you read this with a modicum of respect and consider that some people in this world feel strongly about what they believe in. Please don't see this as an insult to you, or a judgement upon what you believe. Please see it as a statement of what I believe, and how I choose to live my life and raise my children.


"put on the whole armor of God, that you may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places" (Ephesians 6:11-12).

I realize that the characters in the books we are discussing seem innocent enough. My concern is that metaphorically dipping your toe into the water to see if it is warm can then be followed by diving right in. Again...I'm not saying that everyone who reads these books will ultimately result to consulting mediums. But, I cannot condone the occult on any level.

"There shall not be found among you anyone who makes his son or his daughter pass through the fire [an ancient occult practice], or one who practices witchcraft, or a soothsayer, or one who interprets omens, or a sorcerer, or one who conjures spells, or a medium, or a spiritist, or one who calls up the dead. For all who do these things are an abomination [detestable] to the LORD…”
-Deuteronomy 18:9-12a

I respect that you have the right to make decisions for your own child.

But you hold a very narrow opinion and saying that the fact that so many people disagree with you is an indication of a culture war is puzzling to me.

Why not just say, "My daughter wanted to read Twilight but we have strong religious views on the occult and I won't ever let her read anything having to do with the occult anytime ever so I said no"?

Because what you are really saying is "I'd like everyone else to hold my same views so it's not an issue to have to say no to my own daughter." And that's not going to happen.

If you want to teach your daughter that very narrow and specific view, that is your right as a parent.

 

[monkeybug]

I too have daughters- the oldest just turned 9 - she has asked about Twilight- which I have read- and I told her No to both the books and movies for now- she reads anything she can get her hands on and we have a hard time finding things for her to read without crossing into the "teen" world- American Girls are too easy, she read Wimpy Kid (the last one) in 1 afternoon- she likes Harry Potter (is on the 4th one) - but is also the kind of person who can read 4 books at once and keep everything straigt-- anyway back to Twilight - the reason I think she isn't ready is because of the relationship, and well she is scared of the Snow White ride at MK -- maybe in a couple of years though.

Does anybody have some good books to recomend for about 5-6th grade level but yet appropriate for younger kids? (we are waiting for Percy Jackson to be returned to the library)

Maybe these are a bit outdated, but I still hope my daughter will read them!!
Little house on the Prairie series.
Anne of Green Gables (I read that book so many times I went through three copies!!) and the other books in the series.
Little Women
The Rats of NIMH
CS Lewis
The miraculous journey of Edward Tulane (by the author of Winn Dixie, a tear jerker though)
The Incredible Journey
Call of the Wild
Tom sawyer
Swiss family robinson
Secret Garden
Huck Finn
And lot's more...
Percy Jackson is great!

 

[NY Disney fan]

I haven't read this whole thread but I just wanted to add, that its important for a parent to explain why these books are inapprporiate. If you ban a book on vampires, explain to them why. If you just say "No" the kid is going to want it even more! De-mystify the book and then your "no" will have more value.


If you don't want your kids to take drugs, educate them on what drugs do to your body and how they affect your life. Make it real to them so they something to work with.

Growing up I would see teen girls get pregnant. My mom used to tell us not to have sex but she would go hardcore on us, telling us that if we got pregnant then we had to go on welfare and use food stamps, and then we couldn't travel and go to concerts or finish school. She made it ugly for me.

ETA: not that there is shame for using public funds but for a superficial teenager, I only wanted to best and not be judged. So it hit home for me.

 

[PeterPan09]

the website decision is appropriate if you think so, but as far as the books go: I honestly don't believe you should censor books from kids. I'm not saying you should let your 8 year old read erotica or anything, but censoring books is a very bad slippery slope. Heck I was reading Stephen King and Anne Rice when I was in elementary school. My parents didn't censor my books and it led to me having a great love of all books and really learning a lot and expanding my imagination and mind from a very early age.

My parents held the same views as yours. I had a library card and I could take out any book I wanted. I had a few conflicts with librarians and teachers who felt I was reading books that were inappropriate for my age-but once my parents signed off they had to MYOB.

I've been a non-stop reader my entire life and never became a vampire or a serial killer because I read Anne Rice or Stephen King at an early age.