CS Problem at Pop this Past Week

[band_man]

We had a problem at Pop this past week with CS meals on the DDP. We were a party of 4(2Adults,2 Kids). One day we tried to purchase 4 adult CS meals for lunch. The previous day we had not used any Adult CS meals because we just weren't hungry. When we got to the check-out the CM informed us that we could not use the DDP for more than 2 Adult meals at a time because our Key to the World cards had 2 Adults and 2 Child meals printed on them. I informed the cast member that I understood I was able to use my meals whenever I wanted. That if I wanted to use them all in 1 day I could. The response was, "No, you can't" that I could not "buy adult meals for my kids with my adult CS credits." I calmly stated my case to no avail. I asked for a manager. The manager at Pop argued with me for nearly 10 minutes before finally allowing me to use my CS for 4 adult meals.

What I came away understanding was that Disney has seperated TS meals on the reciepts -as they should to prevent cheating- but they have not figured out how to do this for CS meals. So the only way they have to try to keep people honest is by looking at the card and only allowing the number of adult CS meals that are printed on the card to be purchased. This of course in in conflict with the Dining Plan itself.

Even after the manager agreed to let me have the meals she still insisted that I was incorrect. That I could not use my CS credits in any order at anytime I wanted, but that she was going to make an exception this one time.

Just be prepared to state your case calmly.

 

[kaytieeldr]

Yes, you can use your counter service credits 'any way you want' and no, they're not separated like the table service credits are and yes, you could use them all in one day if you want. BUT - not all at one meal.

If your documentation (room key) indicates you have two adults and two children on the Disney Dining Plan, you can get up to two adult counter service meals and two child counter service meals at one transaction.

Stating one's case, calmly or insistently or in any other way does NOT change the rules of the DDP. Yes, a Manager made an exception for you, but it WAS an exception.

 

[Katiebell]

When I first heard that this was the way they were going to enforce that adult CS be used for adults and kid's CS used for kids -- or to prevent family members from sharing amongst themselves -- I thought, "Yep, that's gonna be a problem." It totally contradicts the DDP brochure which states: "Use your meals and snacks in any order and in any amount throughout your package stay until your total is depleted." Based on that sentence alone, a family of 4, 2 A and 2 C, should be allowed to order 1 A CS, or 10 C CS, or anything they want, as long as they have the credits to do so.

The biggest problem is that Disney did not separate the CS credits when they separated the TS credits -- why on earth not? It seems like if there was going to be an expense involved they should have just done it all at once. But now they have realized that even though they fixed the TS loophole, people are still not being honest when it comes to CS meals, and are using the kids' credits to buy adult meals. No matter how someone tries to justify doing it -- their kids are picky, or big eaters, or the kids' menus are awful (which, truthfully, many are dreadful), or why aren't there pizza or burgers on the kids' menus (which there aren't, at most CS restaurants) -- but no matter what reason, it's clearly against the rules, and people that are doing it are well aware that they are cheating the system. Even if you were just trying to make sure you used all of your adult CS credits, I'm sure the CM and manager at the Pop thought you were trying to dishonestly use your kid's credits because so many do And it's really uncomfortable to be in a position where you are having to defend your honesty if you really aren't trying to do anything wrong.

This could cause a lot of bad will with the guests, and put the CM's and managers in awkward, embarrassing arguments, usually in front of many other guests. Arguments that will make Disney look like the bad guy, if the guests they are confronting point out that they are contradicting the written terms of the offer -- "in any order and in any amount". Disney needs to bite the bullet and spend whatever it's going to cost to separate the adult and kid's credits -- if the abuse is costing Disney that much money, I'm sure the savings will quickly cover the cost of the conversion. Either that, or they can just wait and change the DDP brochure for 2008 to read, "in any order, up to the maximum number of guests allowed on your room key by age during any given meal window period" or something equally confusing But if they wait, they will lose a lot of money and cause a lot of headaches -- for CM's AND guests -- before then.

 

[MBELSANTI]

Do you think you would have had any problems if you and DH each went up separately and ordered 2 adult meals each and paid for them with your own card? It doesnt sound like you were trying to use your kids credits to pay for adult meals.

 

[band_man]

Do you think you would have had any problems if you and DH each went up separately and ordered 2 adult meals each and paid for them with your own card? It doesnt sound like you were trying to use your kids credits to pay for adult meals.

I made this very point to the manager. I know I would not have had any problem if we had gone up individually and each ordered two meals. I told the manager I thought this was a very shoddy way to try and protect Disney from a problem they created themselves. Until they figure out a way to monitor CS meals properly Disney is just going to have to bite the bullet.

I can assure you the thought of paying for meals in advance and the possiblilty that I might not be able to use those meals if I do not use them in the "right order" at the "right time" makes me very hesitant to consider the dining plan again. Anyone who has been to WDW for a few days knows that some days your plans change and you don't use a CS meal that you had intended to use. It is silly to think that I have to get in line twice to redeem what I paid for.

Perhaps the kids cards need to have the kids meals on them and the adult cards need to have just the adult meals on them. This would mean 2 transactions. Not sure what that would cost or how inconvenient that might be.

I was trying to think of why Disney has not yet made the CS meals separate. Maybe it is beacuse at many CS places the CM's preparing your order use the receipt to gather what they need for each order. 2 receipts(1 for adults,1 for kids) might create big problems.

 

[band_man]

Yes, you can use your counter service credits 'any way you want' and no, they're not separated like the table service credits are and yes, you could use them all in one day if you want. BUT - not all at one meal.
.

Where do you get this information? This is not what the current DDP brochure says. It is very clear in the brochure , and I quote, "Use your meals in any order and any amount throughout your package stay until your total is depleated". Further down instructions are given "present your Key to the World card to the cashier prior to ordering and specify the number of meals for guests age 10+ and the number of meals for guests ages 3-9"


Here is the link to the brochure:

http://adisneyworld.disney.go.com/media/wdw/images2003/languagespecific/eng/nontheme/tickets/07Dining.pdf

 

[Katiebell]

Perhaps the kids cards need to have the kids meals on them and the adult cards need to have just the adult meals on them. This would mean 2 transactions. Not sure what that would cost or how inconvenient that might be.

I was trying to think of why Disney has not yet made the CS meals separate. Maybe it is beacuse at many CS places the CM's preparing your order use the receipt to gather what they need for each order. 2 receipts(1 for adults,1 for kids) might create big problems.

Disney figured it out for TS because it was costing them too much money not to. I'm sure the same thing will eventually happen for CS -- and it really shouldn't be that difficult.

Just to play devil's advocate (I'm not a devil, I just play one on TV ) ... imagine this scenario:

Family of 4 -- mom, dad, DS8 and DD6.
Day one, they use 2 A CS and 2 C CS for lunch, 2 A TS and 2 C TS for dinner. So far, so good.
Day two, CS lunch, then mom and dad go out to dinner alone, while kids get a CS dinner and spend the evening at the kids' club -- so that's 2 A CS, 2 C CS, then 2 A TS, and 2 C CS.
Day three, character breakfast, 2 A TS, 2 C TS. CS lunch, kids don't like what's on the kids' menu, so 3 A CS, mom and dad each have one and DS and DD split an adult CS meal. Then DS isn't feeling well, so dad and DD go to TS dinner, 1 A TS, 1 C TS. Mom orders room service, 2 A TS, but son has nothing.
Day four, they use 2 A CS split for breakfast, 2 snack credits, 1 A CS and 2 C CS for lunch, 4 more snack credits...

OK QUICK...without thinking...exactly how many A TS, A CS, C TS, and C CS are left right now? You could figure out the A vs C TS credits, in fact it would be printed neatly on the bottom of your receipts. But since the CS credits are all pooled -- without getting out a slide rule, who has how many CS credits left?

It would be simpler for everyone -- and easier for guests to stay honest -- if Disney would just get those CS credits separated. Even restricting redemption to the maximum number and ages of guests on the card won't help -- if the kids are light eaters, then the parents theoretically could order 2 A CS meals every single time, and still redeem every child's credit for an adult meal. And since a kid's CS meal averages $4.50, and an adult CS meal averages...11.50 with tax?...every kid's credit that is redeemed for an adult meal is an average of $7 lost revenue to Disney.

They need to fix this.

 

[englishrose47]

I'm glad my DGDs are 11 so we will be 4 adults and only 1 child. Should be easier!!

 

[LovinLifeinDisney]

Agree with last post--my kids are 17 and 11, so I am just paying adult prices and don't have to worry about it.

 

[kaytieeldr]

Arguments that will make Disney look like the bad guy, if the guests they are confronting point out that they are contradicting the written terms of the offer -- "in any order and in any amount".

Eh, not necessarily. The Disney Dining Plan provides one set of credits (one table service, one counter service, one snack) per night per person. The written terms don’t state anything about “each party” or “each group” or “each family”. The brochure actually states “Use your meals and snacks in any order and in any amount throughout your package stay until your total is depleted”. The grid in the brochure states ‘Meals per person per night’. So while you* can use your credits in any order and any amount, and your DH can use his credits in any order and in any amount, and each of your kids can use their credits in any order and in any amount, YOU can’t use your four-year-old’s counter service credit to get a steak at Pepper Market.

*Not ‘you’ specifically (especially since you understand the DDP)

I made this very point to the manager. I know I would not have had any problem if we had gone up individually and each ordered two meals. I told the manager I thought this was a very shoddy way to try and protect Disney from a problem they created themselves. Until they figure out a way to monitor CS meals properly Disney is just going to have to bite the bullet.

Disney shouldn’t have to monitor CS meals properly. Guests should be using those credits properly and as clearly explained in the Dining Plan documention, not ‘interpreting’ for themselves. YOU get to use YOUR credits. You DON’T “get” to use your kids’ credits for your meals. Disney didn’t create the problem. Dishonest users of the Dining Plan did.

OK QUICK...without thinking...exactly how many A TS, A CS, C TS, and C CS are left right now?

Well, you didn’t say how long they’re there but… let’s say five nights. What’s left: A TS = 1, C TS = 5, A CS = 0, C TS = 3, snacks = 14

 

[Katiebell]

So while you* can use your credits in any order and any amount, and your DH can use his credits in any order and in any amount, and each of your kids can use their credits in any order and in any amount, YOU can’t use your four-year-old’s counter service credit to get a steak at Pepper Market.

*Not ‘you’ specifically (especially since you understand the DDP)

I absolutely agree...and this is why there have been so many posts about CS credits being pooled, etc., and people are getting so creative with the interpretation. But the wording in the dining plan brochure truly is a big problem. "You" can be speaking to the individual who happens to be reading, or "you" can be a collective pronoun referring to "all of you" -- all of the people in your family/party who are on the same room reservation and all had to buy the DDP. "In any order and in any amount" is where it gets sticky...and further supports the collective "you" referring to your entire family/group -- why would they specify "in any amount" if they weren't referring to more than one person? It's possible, but not very likely, that one person might wish to order more than one meal for themselves at a time. Really unlikely, considering how much food there is on the plan It's much more likely that a larger group would be likely to order fewer than the total number of meals in their entire party, which is the only logical reason that Disney would have bothered to specify that you can order your meals "in any amount" -- ie: you are not required to use your entire group's CS allotment or TS allotment all at the same time.

Disney shouldn’t have to monitor CS meals properly. Guests should be using those credits properly and as clearly explained in the Dining Plan documention, not ‘interpreting’ for themselves. YOU get to use YOUR credits. You DON’T “get” to use your kids’ credits for your meals. Disney didn’t create the problem. Dishonest users of the Dining Plan did.

No, Disney definitely shouldn't have to monitor them -- but in their best business interests, they should. Whoever designed the dining plan left a huge loophole that cost Disney a ridiculous amount of money, and as long as that loophole was there, some guests continued to exploit it. And until they fix the CS loophole, there will be some people who exploit that, too.

The OP said that one day they didn't use any CS meals, so the next they tried to use 4 A CS credits to order meals for themselves and their children. If that is truly the case, then the OP was only using credits he had paid for, and trying not to waste his more costly adult credits. However, there was absolutely no way for the CM or the manager at the Pop to know how many credits left were for adults and how many for children. So even though I can see things from the OP's viewpoint as a consumer, I can also see the management's standpoint as well. It's just a mess, and Disney needs to change the wording of their brochure, or figure out a way to separate the adult and child credits so there is no more conflict or confusion.

Well, you didn’t say how long they’re there but… let’s say five nights. What’s left: A TS = 1, C TS = 5, A CS = 0, C TS = 3, snacks = 14

No fair!!! I said "QUICK...without thinking"! And I know you had to think about that a little bit...

Let's see...by day 4, they used:
10 A CS
8 C CS
9 A TS
5 C TS
6 snacks
I think!

 

[brymolmom]

What I don't get is for the people defending the CM on this...who is to say that the OP wasn't using 4 of her own personal CS meal credits at that time. It does say that she can use 'your own' in any way you want - so, maybe this was OP's own 4 credits she wanted to use...and none of the other family members.

If Disney says she can use them all at once if so desired...she should be able to do 4 at once.

 

[gina2000]

Truthfully, I don't like the way this is going. What if I wanted 2 counter service meals for lunch one day? Can I not do it?

It sounds like what WDW wants (and I'm interpreting and it may be entirely wrong) is for families to eat one TS, one CS and one snack every day and not to deviate from that pattern.

 

[kaytieeldr]

.and further supports the collective "you" referring to your entire family/group -- why would they specify "in any amount" if they weren't referring to more than one person?

Say I'll be on a package for six nights (louder - I can't hear you ). To make it more reasonable, let's say I arrive at MCO late evening on my first night and don't get to the hotel until after the food court closed; and my flight leaves at 7:30 AM following my last night - too early to eat onsite.
If I want, I can use all six of my TS credits in one day:
. . . Breakfast at CRT
. . . Lunch at Brown Derby
. . . Dinner at California Grill
A different day, I could have:
. . . Breakfast at Pop Century
. . . Lunch at Cosmic Ray's
. . . Dinner at the Pepper Market
In two days, I've used all six of my Table Service credits and three of my six Counter Service credits. Sure, now I have to stretch three CS credits and six Snack credits to feed me for the other four days (or pay out of pocket for some food), but that's one example of how I use MY credits in "any order and any amount"

.No, Disney definitely shouldn't have to monitor them -- but in their best business interests, they should.

I agree wholeheartedly - maybe once they analyze how the separation is working for Table Service credits, they will institute a similar method for transacting Counter Service uses.

.No fair!!! I said "QUICK...without thinking"! And I know you had to think about that a little bit...

Let's see...by day 4, they used:

You don't know me. I just might be one of those people who can just LOOK at numbers and automatically calculate them. (I'm not, but I could be )

 

[Katiebell]

If I want, I can use all six of my TS credits in one day:
. . . Breakfast at CRT
. . . Lunch at Brown Derby
. . . Dinner at California Grill
A different day, I could have:
. . . Breakfast at Pop Century
. . . Lunch at Cosmic Ray's
. . . Dinner at the Pepper Market
In two days, I've used all six of my Table Service credits and three of my six Counter Service credits. Sure, now I have to stretch three CS credits and six Snack credits to feed me for the other four days (or pay out of pocket for some food), but that's one example of how I use MY credits in "any order and any amount"

Well, yes...if you were very VERY hungry...I guess you could manage to use 6 TS credits in one day! But I bet the whole next day you'd be in bed, with a horrible bellyache Naw, actually...if I was on something like the Platinum Plan, I could see eating at CRT, HBD, and CG all in one day...would just have to eat light at each meal. And probably wouldn't see anything for most of my trip except the insides of restaurants, but wow what a trip it would be! For most folks on the regular version of the DDP, though, I think they are more interested in spreading their dining experiences out a bit over their whole trip.

So, you've shown that one person could manage to consume 6 TS credits all on their first day, if they chose to do so. But then the phrase "in any amount" could also mean that one adult should be able to use as many CS credits at one time as they choose to, as well. Yes, it may say 2A 2C on the room key, but how can the CM know for sure that the parents are ordering adult meals with the children's credits? Maybe the kids already ate, and mom is ordering 2 CS meals for herself, and dad is ordering 2 CS meals for himself -- which is "in any amount" they choose. Or maybe dad is really a glutton, and he is ordering 4 of his CS credits all for himself. Yes, highly unlikely, but allowable under the current wording of the brochure. The only flaw is that there is no way to determine when the adult credits have been used up. If the credits were separated, then the adults could order 4 A CS meals, no problem -- but then 4 A CS meals would be deducted from the total. And once all the adult credits are gone, then they will only have kids' credits left and everybody will end up eating pb&j for the rest of their vacation, or they will have to buy some meals OOP.

You don't know me. I just might be one of those people who can just LOOK at numbers and automatically calculate them. (I'm not, but I could be )

If you are, we're going to Vegas!

 

[Pumbaa_]

Now my head hurts!

Hate it when things that should be easy are hard!

 

[Lewisc]

I guess it was a nice a CM made an exception

You're not allowed to use your credits to treat others not on the plan. Kids are required off the kids menu. As a result CS restaurants limit you to what's on your card. 2A2C can order 2 adult meals and 2 kids meals.

I suspect very few parents eat two lunches, while their children watch them eat. The OP would be correct if that's exactly what they wanted to do but it sure sounds like the OP was ordering 4 meals for 4 guests.

 

[RACHELSMOM1]

We had a problem at Pop this past week with CS meals on the DDP. We were a party of 4(2Adults,2 Kids). One day we tried to purchase 4 adult CS meals for lunch. The previous day we had not used any Adult CS meals because we just weren't hungry. When we got to the check-out the CM informed us that we could not use the DDP for more than 2 Adult meals at a time because our Key to the World cards had 2 Adults and 2 Child meals printed on them. I informed the cast member that I understood I was able to use my meals whenever I wanted. That if I wanted to use them all in 1 day I could. The response was, "No, you can't" that I could not "buy adult meals for my kids with my adult CS credits." I calmly stated my case to no avail. I asked for a manager. The manager at Pop argued with me for nearly 10 minutes before finally allowing me to use my CS for 4 adult meals.

What I came away understanding was that Disney has seperated TS meals on the reciepts -as they should to prevent cheating- but they have not figured out how to do this for CS meals. So the only way they have to try to keep people honest is by looking at the card and only allowing the number of adult CS meals that are printed on the card to be purchased. This of course in in conflict with the Dining Plan itself.

Even after the manager agreed to let me have the meals she still insisted that I was incorrect. That I could not use my CS credits in any order at anytime I wanted, but that she was going to make an exception this one time.

Just be prepared to state your case calmly.

Had the opposite exp. at ASM-was told by CM that all CS meals are pooled, to order what I wanted. Go figure.

 

[band_man]

I think after all of this the one thing we can all agree on is that this can be confusing for guests and cm's.

Hopefully Disney will fix it. It is not fair to guests or cm's to be put in the position of having to question each other's honesty, etc. And while it is unfortunate that dishonest people have created the problem, those types must always be taken in consideration when running a business.

 

[band_man]

I guess it was a nice a CM made an exception

You're not allowed to use your credits to treat others not on the plan. Kids are required off the kids menu. As a result CS restaurants limit you to what's on your card. 2A2C can order 2 adult meals and 2 kids meals.

I suspect very few parents eat two lunches, while their children watch them eat. The OP would be correct if that's exactly what they wanted to do but it sure sounds like the OP was ordering 4 meals for 4 guests.

If this is the way Disney wants it - I can't give away food I paid for, share fries with a tablemates, trade sides with my tablemates - then I will not be utelizing the dining plan, and I would assume many others won't either.