Covid And The Rest of Us

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I feel exactly the same way...maybe even more nervous since the Pharma companies have actually changed their own recommendations. Just like they changed the labeling on the product to count 6 doses instead of 5. :confused: What's real here? If the length between doses could legitimately be lengthened, why didn't they say so initially? If the bottle actually has 6 doses, why did it originally say 5? I am a BIG proponent of vaccines and I desperately want this all to work but it gives flashbacks to when we were purposely misled about masks.

In the meantime, for everybody - what are the current Covid rules in your jurisdictions? A quick look would indicate that numbers everywhere (cases and hospitalizations) are coming down. Are your restrictions easing?

When trials were started they were looking for specific information. Now that we have many millions of people vaccinated there is more data to help make better decisions. In terms of the doses it depends on the needle being used. My husband is a numbers guy he has said all along there has to be data that can be used to determine when things can be opened up. I look at this as a good thing the data supports that the shots can be extended. I was lucky enough to have received both my doses. Still waiting on when my kids (ages 18 to 23) can get it.
 
In the meantime, for everybody - what are the current Covid rules in your jurisdictions?
Bordering Canada -- we're in VT:

We haven't fully followed the CDC recommended phases for vaccination groups; to date we've done:
  • frontline healthcare workers
  • residents of skill nursing facilities
  • those age 75+
  • ages 70+
  • and just this week opened to those ages 65+
Next up (expected later this month) includes:
  • ages 45+ with specific medical conditions (a shortened list from the CDC)
  • teachers and daycare workers will be given the supply of J&J vaccines once those start arriving
  • then ages 16+ with specific medical conditions (same list as ages 45+)
We've had pretty tight travel restrictions until this week. People who are at least 14-days past their 2nd shot can come and go without quarantine restrictions, and will not need to quarantine if identified as a "close contact" of a known case (our state is still doing contact tracing). Be sure to carry your vaccination card identifying that you are fully vaccinated and enough time has lapsed since the final dose. Also those fully-vaccinated and 2 weeks past last dose are allowed to gather with 1 other household at a time.

Other restrictions remain largely unchanged: masks are required in public, 6-ft social-distancing, no multi-household gatherings (except as noted above for those vaccinated). I believe hospitality (hotels) are allowed 100% capacity, but travel restrictions still apply if unvaccinated. Restaurants are still at 50% capacity and 6-foot distancing, limited to single-household per table; bars and clubs remain closed. Take-out/curbside pick-up is allowed even if the venue is closed to in-person. Retail stores are limited to 50% occupancy. Churches are allowed to be open though I think most are still streaming services with few if any in-person. Most schools are at least hybrid, with many elementary schools in-person 4 or 5 days per week.
 
I've seen several news pieces lately about the most recent round of Stimulus Payments for Americans. Are any of your countries doing something similar? I admit it sounds attractive to have random money show up in the mailbox but it would be simply unthinkable for Canada's economy which in 2020 was at a $381 BILLION deficit, thanks to Covid and the relief measures that are in place. They are all directed at income support for those with employment disruptions and various plans to support business and industry to maintain jobs.
 
I've seen several news pieces lately about the most recent round of Stimulus Payments for Americans. Are any of your countries doing something similar? I admit it sounds attractive to have random money show up in the mailbox but it would be simply unthinkable for Canada's economy which in 2020 was at a $381 BILLION deficit, thanks to Covid and the relief measures that are in place. They are all directed at income support for those with employment disruptions and various plans to support business and industry to maintain jobs.
I received a GST payment last July and I don't know how many years it has been since I've been eligible for that. That was kind of random lol And just before Christmas we got $1,000 from the BC govt, part of the BC Recovery Benefit or some such thing.There was also a one time bonus top up for the Child Care Benefit last spring as well.
 

I received a GST payment last July and I don't know how many years it has been since I've been eligible for that. That was kind of random lol And just before Christmas we got $1,000 from the BC govt, part of the BC Recovery Benefit or some such thing.There was also a one time bonus top up for the Child Care Benefit last spring as well.
That is interesting! I wasn't aware provinces were individually doing that, but it makes sense that each of them are taking their own approaches. My brother lives in the BC interior; an old anti-establishment hippy from way back who relentlessly complains about everything Covid and government related but I'm sure he was happy enough to cash that cheque. :laughing:
 
The Guardian published an article about the next test event in the Netherlands at a dance club. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...study-easing-lockdown-music-event-coronavirus
Sorry - the article won't open for me. Can you tell us a little more? How are your numbers in general right now? In Alberta we are down to 250 people in hospital province-wide and 44 in ICU - well within the stated targets. We've had a few more minor relaxations such as fitness facilities and libraries but we are still completely prohibited from any social interactions and the discontentment is simmering. :rolleyes1
 
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Sorry - the article won't open for me. Can you tell us a little more? How are your numbers in general right now? In Alberta we are down to 250 people in hospital province-wide and 44 in ICU - well within the stated targets. We've had a few more minor relaxations such as fitness facilities and libraries but we are still completely prohibited from any social interactions and the discontentment is simmering. :rolleyes1

here you go

It wasn’t quite one of the great carefree, hedonistic nights of the past, but clubbers in Amsterdam were given a short reprieve from lockdown at the weekend as part of an examination of the risks attached to getting people back on the dancefloor.

The Ziggo Dome, the largest music arena in the Dutch capital, was opened to 1,300 people for four hours on Saturday. They were encouraged to dance to sets by Dutch DJs Sam Feldt, Lady Bee and Sunnery James & Ryan Marciano.

Those participating were traced in all their movements and contacts through a tag, as part of an effort to examine how events may safely be opened up for the public again. They had been divided into five “bubbles” of 250 people, plus one of 50, each of which had to comply with different rules.

Some were constrained in their movement on the dancefloor, while others were variously asked to wear a mask at all times or only when in motion. One group was given a fluorescent drink and encouraged to sing and scream to the music in order to examine how much saliva was released at moments of peak revelry.

Government advisers will use the data they collect on the behaviour recorded to help make decisions on possibly easing the restrictions on night life in the coming months. One of the observations, organisers said, was that even those asked to keep their masks on soon dispensed with them as they got into the flow of the music.

Tim Boersma, of Fieldlab, the organisation carrying out the research for the government, said: “We hope this can lead to a tailor-made reopening of venues. Measures are now generic, allowing for instance a maximum of 100 guests at any event if coronavirus infections drop to a certain level. We hope for more specific measures, such as allowing the Ziggo Dome to open at half its capacity.”

The Ziggo Dome has a normal capacity of 17,000 but 100,000 applied for 1,350 €15 (£13) tickets. They sold out in 20 minutes.

Everyone attending had to have received a negative test for coronavirus 48 hours before the event. Twelve applicants had received a positive test result before the event and were barred from taking part. Those who did attend were asked to take another test five days afterwards.

Feldt, 27, who has not performed to a large audience since his tour to the US was cancelled last March, said the event had given him hope. “I see light at the end of the tunnel again,” he said. “We have now been in it for about a year together and with the vaccinations, the testing possibilities and these kind of test events, I think there are a lot of signs that we will hopefully see some more parties in the summer.”

The gig was part of a series of government-backed research events that have also included a business conference of 500 people, a performance in front of a similar number of people by cabaret artist Guido Weijers, and a football match involving 1,200 cheering supporters. Two open-air festivals in Biddinghuizen have also been planned, as well as a pop concert.

It is more than a year since gatherings of more than 100 people were banned in the Netherlands. All bars and restaurants in the country have been closed since mid-October. A nationwide 9pm to 4.30am curfew has been in place for the past six weeks. The event at the Ziggo Dome ran from 3pm to 7pm in order to be compliant.

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Natasja de Rooij, 29, from Utrecht, who attended with her boyfriend, Stefan, said it was “very nice to get away from it all after all that sitting at home”. “And we are also doing something good,” she said. “Stefan and I were actually supposed to get married last summer. Maybe it can still be done this summer.”

The bubbles
  • Bubble 1 People were told to wear a mask all the time. They could decide for themselves where to stand, but had to ensure that there were no more than three people in a square metre of space.
  • Bubble 2 People wore a mask all the time and were told to keep a distance of 1.5 metres.
  • Bubble 3 People wore a mouth mask only when in motion and had to stand on designated spots.
  • Bubble 4 People wore masks all the time. There were seats available.
  • Bubble 5 People only masks only when on the move. There were standing and seating areas. The participants were put in their dancing spot by the organisers with two chairs spacing people apart.
  • Bubble 6 No masks. People were allowed to stand or sit where and when they pleased.
 
here you go

It wasn’t quite one of the great carefree, hedonistic nights of the past, but clubbers in Amsterdam were given a short reprieve from lockdown at the weekend as part of an examination of the risks attached to getting people back on the dancefloor.

The Ziggo Dome, the largest music arena in the Dutch capital, was opened to 1,300 people for four hours on Saturday. They were encouraged to dance to sets by Dutch DJs Sam Feldt, Lady Bee and Sunnery James & Ryan Marciano.

Those participating were traced in all their movements and contacts through a tag, as part of an effort to examine how events may safely be opened up for the public again. They had been divided into five “bubbles” of 250 people, plus one of 50, each of which had to comply with different rules.

Some were constrained in their movement on the dancefloor, while others were variously asked to wear a mask at all times or only when in motion. One group was given a fluorescent drink and encouraged to sing and scream to the music in order to examine how much saliva was released at moments of peak revelry.

Government advisers will use the data they collect on the behaviour recorded to help make decisions on possibly easing the restrictions on night life in the coming months. One of the observations, organisers said, was that even those asked to keep their masks on soon dispensed with them as they got into the flow of the music.

Tim Boersma, of Fieldlab, the organisation carrying out the research for the government, said: “We hope this can lead to a tailor-made reopening of venues. Measures are now generic, allowing for instance a maximum of 100 guests at any event if coronavirus infections drop to a certain level. We hope for more specific measures, such as allowing the Ziggo Dome to open at half its capacity.”

The Ziggo Dome has a normal capacity of 17,000 but 100,000 applied for 1,350 €15 (£13) tickets. They sold out in 20 minutes.

Everyone attending had to have received a negative test for coronavirus 48 hours before the event. Twelve applicants had received a positive test result before the event and were barred from taking part. Those who did attend were asked to take another test five days afterwards.

Feldt, 27, who has not performed to a large audience since his tour to the US was cancelled last March, said the event had given him hope. “I see light at the end of the tunnel again,” he said. “We have now been in it for about a year together and with the vaccinations, the testing possibilities and these kind of test events, I think there are a lot of signs that we will hopefully see some more parties in the summer.”

The gig was part of a series of government-backed research events that have also included a business conference of 500 people, a performance in front of a similar number of people by cabaret artist Guido Weijers, and a football match involving 1,200 cheering supporters. Two open-air festivals in Biddinghuizen have also been planned, as well as a pop concert.

It is more than a year since gatherings of more than 100 people were banned in the Netherlands. All bars and restaurants in the country have been closed since mid-October. A nationwide 9pm to 4.30am curfew has been in place for the past six weeks. The event at the Ziggo Dome ran from 3pm to 7pm in order to be compliant.

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Natasja de Rooij, 29, from Utrecht, who attended with her boyfriend, Stefan, said it was “very nice to get away from it all after all that sitting at home”. “And we are also doing something good,” she said. “Stefan and I were actually supposed to get married last summer. Maybe it can still be done this summer.”

The bubbles
  • Bubble 1 People were told to wear a mask all the time. They could decide for themselves where to stand, but had to ensure that there were no more than three people in a square metre of space.
  • Bubble 2 People wore a mask all the time and were told to keep a distance of 1.5 metres.
  • Bubble 3 People wore a mouth mask only when in motion and had to stand on designated spots.
  • Bubble 4 People wore masks all the time. There were seats available.
  • Bubble 5 People only masks only when on the move. There were standing and seating areas. The participants were put in their dancing spot by the organisers with two chairs spacing people apart.
  • Bubble 6 No masks. People were allowed to stand or sit where and when they pleased.
:rotfl2:I can't help but feel like for me, meeting friends out for dinner and a movie would classify as "one of the great, carefree, hedonistic nights of the past"...
 
I feel exactly the same way...maybe even more nervous since the Pharma companies have actually changed their own recommendations. Just like they changed the labeling on the product to count 6 doses instead of 5. :confused: What's real here? If the length between doses could legitimately be lengthened, why didn't they say so initially? If the bottle actually has 6 doses, why did it originally say 5? I am a BIG proponent of vaccines and I desperately want this all to work but it gives flashbacks to when we were purposely misled about masks.

In the meantime, for everybody - what are the current Covid rules in your jurisdictions? A quick look would indicate that numbers everywhere (cases and hospitalizations) are coming down. Are your restrictions easing?

I think with respect to the number of doses per vial, you can only get that sixth dose out if you use special syringes. In Australia we are currently only getting 5 doses per vial because we are waiting on delivery of the syringes and after that we will get 6. So it’s not so much a change in recommendations but a change in physical capabilities I guess?

As far as the time between doses is concerned, yes, that is a change in recommendation. However, I think that is always the case with medicine: recommendations and protocols evolve as new evidence comes to light. As I had one doctor tell me, “medicine is an inexact science”. They aren’t saying that the previous timings were wrong, just that now that it has been tested, the new timings are better.

I've seen several news pieces lately about the most recent round of Stimulus Payments for Americans. Are any of your countries doing something similar? I admit it sounds attractive to have random money show up in the mailbox but it would be simply unthinkable for Canada's economy which in 2020 was at a $381 BILLION deficit, thanks to Covid and the relief measures that are in place. They are all directed at income support for those with employment disruptions and various plans to support business and industry to maintain jobs.

In Australia we’ve had a few different measures, although not a stimulus payment for everyone (or most everyone). Like you, most of our relief measures have been directed at income support. Businesses that have lost a certain percentage of their revenue get payments to keep their staff employed, although that is due to end this month. There have also been some additional payments to businesses from state governments. There was also an increase to unemployment payments; people receiving those have also received a couple of stimulus payments. In Victoria we also had a travel voucher scheme where there were a limited number of vouchers available if you spent a certain amount on tourism in regional areas.

Our economy is, surprisingly, doing well. People actually accumulated a lot of savings over the last year and are now prepared to spend. More than 90% of people who lost their jobs or their hours are now employed again. The housing market is also booming; there were fears that prices would drop 30% but it’s actually heading the other direction.
 
With all those royal family discussions (so grateful for my own boring royal family ;-) ) I almost forgot that we had a news update in NL today:

Our PM is getting optimistic, cautiously of course, but we get some small improvements. And probably more with Easter.
As of later this week/next week
- More people allowed in stores on appointment (at the moment 2 per store per floor... IKEA said: Yeah, we will stay closed for now). It will be based on store size.
- Kids can go back to their swimming lessons. I have no idea how this work in other countries. We are a country with a lot of water, most kids learn to swim via school.
- People in care homes can receive 2 visitors again. The majority of all care home people & staff are vaccinated now.
- Adults can perform outdoor sports again in groups of 4 (now 2). So still no team sports, but for tennis etc. there are more options.
Most likely per 31 March
- Hopefully reopening outdoor seating at bars/restaurants. R-figure has to be and stay below 1 to make that possible.
- Colleges & Universities back to in person education.
- At home visitors back to 2 people.

The curfew got extended to end of March, with a little bit more lenience on 15-17 March as it is election time. Normally we have 1 day to vote (from 7:00 - 21:00), due to Covid it's spread over 3 days. There is lenience as there are so many volunteers who will be returning from 'work' those days, that police will not fine people being out after curfew.
no unnecessary travel advice extended to April 15.

Oh, and apparently we still had a travel ban to the UK, South Africa and a bunch of countries in South America. The UK travel ban has been lifted.
 
With all those royal family discussions (so grateful for my own boring royal family ;-) ) I almost forgot that we had a news update in NL today:

Our PM is getting optimistic, cautiously of course, but we get some small improvements. And probably more with Easter.
As of later this week/next week
- More people allowed in stores on appointment (at the moment 2 per store per floor... IKEA said: Yeah, we will stay closed for now). It will be based on store size.
- Kids can go back to their swimming lessons. I have no idea how this work in other countries. We are a country with a lot of water, most kids learn to swim via school.
- People in care homes can receive 2 visitors again. The majority of all care home people & staff are vaccinated now.
- Adults can perform outdoor sports again in groups of 4 (now 2). So still no team sports, but for tennis etc. there are more options.
Most likely per 31 March
- Hopefully reopening outdoor seating at bars/restaurants. R-figure has to be and stay below 1 to make that possible.
- Colleges & Universities back to in person education.
- At home visitors back to 2 people.

The curfew got extended to end of March, with a little bit more lenience on 15-17 March as it is election time. Normally we have 1 day to vote (from 7:00 - 21:00), due to Covid it's spread over 3 days. There is lenience as there are so many volunteers who will be returning from 'work' those days, that police will not fine people being out after curfew.
no unnecessary travel advice extended to April 15.

Oh, and apparently we still had a travel ban to the UK, South Africa and a bunch of countries in South America. The UK travel ban has been lifted.
Regarding your travel ban - can your citizens come and go freely or was the ban prohibiting citizens of those countries from arriving in NL?
 
I think with respect to the number of doses per vial, you can only get that sixth dose out if you use special syringes. In Australia we are currently only getting 5 doses per vial because we are waiting on delivery of the syringes and after that we will get 6. So it’s not so much a change in recommendations but a change in physical capabilities I guess?

Further to this comment about the syringes, here is an article that includes some information about them: https://www.theage.com.au/business/...-to-make-5900-per-minute-20210308-p578me.html It states:
'To maximise the output from a vial of the Pfizer vaccine, for example, a syringe must carry an exact dose of 0.3 millilitres. The syringes also must have low dead space — the infinitesimal distance between the plunger and the needle after the dose is fully injected — to minimise waste.'

Australia now has access to the special syringes from today. Our rollout has been quite slow so far - at least not many doses have been wasted from lack of syringes! (A few were wasted because they shipped double to one nursing home and despite a staff member keeping them refrigerated they couldn't trust that they'd been stored correctly).

We have also now started using the Astra Zeneca vaccine. We have imported some, although Italy has withheld our next shipment. To be honest, I don't think many Aussies mind; we realise that Italy needs them a lot more than we do and our locally made vaccine will be available in a couple of weeks.
 
Regarding your travel ban - can your citizens come and go freely or was the ban prohibiting citizens of those countries from arriving in NL?
There were a few exceptions to the rule, and citizens was one of them, including EU-citizens on their way home were also allowed.
 
I just read a story that Germany is vaccinating entire towns on the border in order to try to bring down infections rates.

The story was on CNN

Germany changes priority vaccination strategy to target borders
From CNN’s Claudia Otto

Germany is changing its priority vaccination strategy in “hotspot areas” to vaccinate the entire population in border areas in an effort to reduce entry of the virus into the interior of the country, the German Health Ministry Press Office told CNN on Thursday.
New vaccination rules in Saxony, Bavaria, Saarland and, if necessary, other states mean they can start to vaccinate the entire population in hotspots at Germany’s borders.
“We are adapting the vaccination ordinance to new findings and developments. To this end, we are adhering to prioritization in order to protect those who are particularly vulnerable. But at the same time, we want to pragmatically make rapid vaccination possible. We need to strike a balance between vaccinating as many people as possible and doing so in the most targeted way possible,” Health Minister Jens Spahn said about the new rules.
For example in Vogtland, Saxony, a border region where infection numbers are very high, everybody over 18 will now be able to be vaccinated according to local health authorities.

This is an interesting strategy.
 
Just had an email from our GP surgery to advise that second injections will start on March 22nd.
We had our first one about five weeks ago so hoping we will be in a position to travel abroad by June.

ford family
 
Just had an email from our GP surgery to advise that second injections will start on March 22nd.
We had our first one about five weeks ago so hoping we will be in a position to travel abroad by June.

ford family
After a robust two weeks of administering vaccines, Alberta is out of supply again. When the AstraZeneca got approved we received a large shipment, with the proviso that it was NOT to be administered to anyone over the age of 64 due to efficacy concerns. Eligibility was opened up on a year-of-birth basis and within 3 days all the available doses were spoken for, with nothing in reserve for second doses. We've been out of Pfizer and Moderna for a while, which was briefly available to anyone 75 or older, in late February. Very few people have had second doses of any of the vaccines.

So we continue to wait, hoping and praying that the contracts we signed with the manufacturers will be honored sooner rather than later. We are owed literally millions of doses. In the meantime, there has been no talk of vaccinated individuals being exempted from our border controls so at this time, it's not a huge ray of hope for future travel. As has been mentioned, our problem isn't getting out, it's the ridiculous requirements upon re-entry that are our biggest problem.
 
In NL, our new cases per day still go up and down like a yoyo. More in the group <18 years olds and 18-24 year olds. Deaths are going down and also the infections in care homes is now at 300. Meaning 300 care homes had a positive case in the last 2 weeks. At the peak it is was over 850 care homes.
% positives went down to 7.7, R is at 1.06.
 
EU moves towards vaccine travel certs

THE EUROPEAN COMMISSION has announced plans to set up a travel certificate to help restore freedom of movement within the bloc for citizens inoculated against the coronavirus.

The certificate will show “whether the person has either been vaccinated, or has a recent negative test, or has recovered from Covid, and thus has antibodies,” EU Commission president Ursula von der Leyen said.

“With this digital certificate we aim to help member states reinstate the freedom of movement in a safe, responsible and trusted manner.”

The idea is to allow inoculated tourists to get around restrictions on non-essential travel that have spread across Europe, as a second and third wave of Covid-19 infections brought much intra-EU travel to a standstill.

Fine Gael MEP Deirdre Clune backed the Digital Green Certificate saying it “will make travel safer and easier across Europe by providing uniform proof that those travelling has been vaccinated against Covid-19, have tested negative or developed immunity”.

“The certificate proposal will be subject to scrutiny by the European Parliament and to agreement of the Member States and must respect our fundamental rights and values, as well as data protection requirements, but could greatly boost confidence for post-Covid travel,” said Clune.

The Ireland South MEP believes the certificate should only cover Covid-19 vaccines approved by the European Medicines Agency, “as health and safety remain our first priority”.

The plan, however, will face stiff resistance from many member states, a key concern being that those still awaiting vaccinations would be discriminated against.

In addition, some member states are worried that the legal path to create the pass, which would include approval by the European Parliament, will take too long, with the summer holidays just three months away.

The commission is adamant that the process can be fast-tracked and is working to have it ready by June.

The European aviation sector issued a joint statement this afternoon urging EU governments to ensure the certificates are operational in time for the peak summer travel months.
 
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