Could we be honest and objective concerning DVC?

[Dean]

I think most DVC members can honestly answer the questions as to whether they like and enjoy DVC and whether it's a good thing for them. I think most can't answer honestly about whether it's best for them simply because they don't have enough knowledge and experience about other things to truly know. I do think that many DVC owners, including many here, are not objective about DVC. I think too many let their emotions determine their positions rather than separating the issues, I'll reference the valet parking issue and the reallocation as examples.

 

[disneynutz]

We loved the old Disney, the new Disney, not as much. Every year Disney continues to raise prices while cutting everything around us.

I will admit that I am very critical of the DVC and Disney. I get frustrated when I know that they can do better. I have come to realize that because of our several WDW visits each year, we are more exposed to the good and the not so good at WDW and the DVC.

IMHO DVC owners tend to put up with the cut backs and problems because of their vested interest and Disney is very good at knowing how much to cut without getting people really upset.

DVC could be a 5 star experience each and every visit but it seems that Disney's goal is to be just a little better than the rest of the timeshare industry.

Why don't they keep their promises and give members a website that is user friendly and fully functional instead of using bits and pieces from other Disney units.

Why only 2 active wait lists?

Why only 8 months to bank our points, they are our points?

Why have a holding account?

Why not be honest with the room view categories?

Why not have clean rooms each and every visit?

I would be happier if Disney treated me the same way after the sale as they did before we bought.

Bill

 

[Tiger926]

We really like our DVC membership. Does it mean we are happy with all Disney decisions? Nope! The point reallocation cost us 33 points, and that is a lot. But, we aren't going to sell, so we have to readjust. Such is how life works...

We also don't agree that non-DVC rooms are better. We have stayed at every non-DVC resort except GF - have stayed in Concierge as well. Yacht Club was gross - talk about shabby and wear and tear! Poly was just like Caribbean Beach to us - horrible view, and nothing could be done as they were full. Contemporary was very nice (stayed there 2x), but now BLT is there, and Animal Kingdom Lodge (before DVC), was nothing special at all. In fact, we had more problems as non-DVC members, then we have had as members. So, as people who have stayed at almost every single Disney and DVC resort, we don't agree with those statements either. Disney seems to be having problems dealing with customer issues as of late - as regulars we've seen this at resorts, restaurants, parks, etc. It is not a DVC only problem, but a Disney corporate issue.

We also have no interest in renting points either - too much risk, and not in control of anything to do with the reservation. We won't rent out our points, nor would we rent points. It might work for some, but we definitely have no interest in doing so.

Some of the comments, most especially Sanchez's comment is insulting to many of us. As DVC members, I would bet that we are more educated and critical of DVC than any of his clients. Why do they have a real estate lawyer in the first place, as you don't need one for DVC? Are they divorcing, in debt, etc? You have to consider all options before you make any large purchase, so inform yourselves and do your research in order to see if DVC works for your family. If not, you can sell, and you'll do ok. Although those of us who paid foreign exchange will more than likely lose money, that's not Disney's fault as they don't control the exchange rates anyway!

Timeshares or Vacation Clubs are huge in the U.S. but not here in Canada, so for those of us who have purchased, we have likely done a lot of research, but for those who made an impulse purchase (as many timeshares are), then it might start to feel like a huge mistake. But, this can happen with anything: car, house, boat, etc...and this is not the fault of the vacation club/timeshare, but with the buyer.

Be informed with an open mind and truly understand what you are getting into, and there shouldn't be regret, barring unforseen circumstances. Exceptions to the rule are loss of job, death, etc., and many times, those things can't be planned for anyway, so they are the exception to the rule, and not the norm. If you are dissatisified with the DVC product, let your voice be heard, and if things don't get rectified to your satisfaction, you can sell. DVC had a great resale record, the other timeshares not so much. That is important when making a purchase decision as well.

We are mostly happy with DVC, but we are critical and realistic about changes, and problems we see. Why? Because we are members of a group that we paid to be members of. If this isn't incentive and motivation enough, than I would think that someone didn't purchase their timeshare in the right frame of mind, or, for the right reasons. If you think your family will get bored, or not want to go, then you shouldn't have purchased. If you are in the midst of losing your job, then don't purchase. If you and your spouse are in thinking of divorcing, then don't purchase. There has to be more responsibility placed on the shoulders of the buyers to know if it is truly a product that your family will enjoy and use for years to come.

YMMV, Tiger

 

[Dean]

We loved the old Disney, the new Disney, not as much. Every year Disney continues to raise prices while cutting everything around us.

I will admit that I am very critical of the DVC and Disney. I get frustrated when I know that they can do better. I have come to realize that because of our several WDW visits each year, we are more exposed to the good and the not so good at WDW and the DVC.

IMHO DVC owners tend to put up with the cut backs and problems because of their vested interest and Disney is very good at knowing how much to cut without getting people really upset.

DVC could be a 5 star experience each and every visit but it seems that Disney's goal is to be just a little better than the rest of the timeshare industry.

Why don't they keep their promises and give members a website that is user friendly and fully functional instead of using bits and pieces from other Disney units.

Why only 2 active wait lists?

Why only 8 months to bank our points, they are our points?

Why have a holding account?

Why not be honest with the room view categories?

Why not have clean rooms each and every visit?

I would be happier if Disney treated me the same way after the sale as they did before we bought.

Bill

I hope this is not too off topic, if deemed so, please remove.

Bill, a few thoughts about your list esp since I see much of it differently than you apparently do. I approach DVC as a timeshare, I suspect you approach it from a Deluxe Disney Resort standpoint. There's certainly no excuse for rooms that are not clean or up to a certain standard. Websites take time and plans change, esp with the current economy. A new website could take years or never happen, I don't see that as a violation of a promise. As for the more technical questions, ultimately there are decisions that need to be made. Here are a few thoughts in those ares.

Limit on WL would be to streamline the process and ultimately increase the chances that WL as a group would be easier to manage and more likely to be matched. There are real costs associated with managing the WL.

The banking deadlines are an effort to control the impact of banked points and likely, to ensure that some points will be lost. DVC cannot sustain infinite banking and borrowing. The last few years of a given resort contract will certainly exaggerate this issue. They could certainly do it differently. The current system is likely better for the membership overall than was the previous system though that will not be true for everyone.

As for room views, I do come at this from a timeshare perspective where view type is generally accepted as a location indication rather than a view from that unit designation. I see little about the view designations for DVC that are in question, esp if you understand the history of how they came to be (BW view and near HH as examples). For example, I think it was inappropriate for DVC to give compensation for those at AKV that had a Savannah view but where the animals were not there at the time. I know many disagree, their prerogative, but in my view it's no different than the pool being out or the restaurant being closed for repairs or even due to seasonal slow time.

Expecting to be treated the same as a guest being courted for cash is unrealistic and unreasonable, IMO. Obviously a certain level of expectation exists but it's just a different situation . On a related note, and I don't know if you're referring to this concept, but certainly expecting DVC members to received perks they offer guests as part of a package is not reasonable. I know they do offer some things like the option to buy the DDP, but certainly not the free DDP nor should they.

There are certainly issues I think they could do better and some I think they should do better. There's no excuse for the rooms not being clean and no excuse for not having rooms ready by or before 4 pm consistently. I feel it's also inappropriate that they don't formally put an effort into appropriate requests, esp since they did previously (not that things can't change).

 

[DebbieB]

I've been a member since December 1999 and have no regrets other than I would have split my 250 points into 150 + 100 and would now sell off the 100 and buy VGC. But I'm going to see if I can get VGC at 7 months in May. If I wasn't happy, I would not hesitate to sell. I bought in at $65 per point and could most likely get that back or close to it even with broker commissions. I'm looking to buy a townhome in the near future and the extra $15,000 or so would be good to add to my downpayment (I already have more than 20%) but I don't want to giveup my DVC. I was thinking about it when my mom died (we traveled together alot) but one night I was walking on the boardwalk and realized I did not want to give it up. I want that nice 1 bedroom and can't imagine having to pay cash for it everytime I go. It's nice to just have $111 taken out of my checking account each month (dues).

 

[JimC]

Yes, we can be objective but there are always filters on the objectivity based on how well one understands DVC and alternatives, number of nights and stays at WDW and with DVC, objectives for timeshares as a vacation style and personal circumstances.

My wife and I have been very lucky to have enjoyed many, many stays and nights at nearly every WDW resort (as you can see in my signature). Yet we continue to learn about the property. Overall, we are satisfied, otherwise we would sell and do something different. We recognize that no such undertaking is going to be perfect (even Disney makes mistakes), understand that programs evolve over time and admit that our vacation objectives have changed over time. We don't like or agree with every Disney decision. They could and should do better on a number of things -- many commented on above. But overall we still get a great deal of enjoyment from the products and services Disney provides.

But I am also a shareholder, so I see this from two perspectives.

 

[JBx3]

I hope this is not too off topic, if deemed so, please remove.

Bill, a few thoughts about your list esp since I see much of it differently than you apparently do. I approach DVC as a timeshare, I suspect you approach it from a Deluxe Disney Resort standpoint. There's certainly no excuse for rooms that are not clean or up to a certain standard. Websites take time and plans change, esp with the current economy. A new website could take years or never happen, I don't see that as a violation of a promise. As for the more technical questions, ultimately there are decisions that need to be made. Here are a few thoughts in those ares.

Limit on WL would be to streamline the process and ultimately increase the chances that WL as a group would be easier to manage and more likely to be matched. There are real costs associated with managing the WL.

The banking deadlines are an effort to control the impact of banked points and likely, to ensure that some points will be lost. DVC cannot sustain infinite banking and borrowing. The last few years of a given resort contract will certainly exaggerate this issue. They could certainly do it differently. The current system is likely better for the membership overall than was the previous system though that will not be true for everyone.

As for room views, I do come at this from a timeshare perspective where view type is generally accepted as a location indication rather than a view from that unit designation. I see little about the view designations for DVC that are in question, esp if you understand the history of how they came to be (BW view and near HH as examples). For example, I think it was inappropriate for DVC to give compensation for those at AKV that had a Savannah view but where the animals were not there at the time. I know many disagree, their prerogative, but in my view it's no different than the pool being out or the restaurant being closed for repairs or even due to seasonal slow time.

Expecting to be treated the same as a guest being courted for cash is unrealistic and unreasonable, IMO. Obviously a certain level of expectation exists but it's just a different situation . On a related note, and I don't know if you're referring to this concept, but certainly expecting DVC members to received perks they offer guests as part of a package is not reasonable. I know they do offer some things like the option to buy the DDP, but certainly not the free DDP nor should they.

There are certainly issues I think they could do better and some I think they should do better. There's no excuse for the rooms not being clean and no excuse for not having rooms ready by or before 4 pm consistently. I feel it's also inappropriate that they don't formally put an effort into appropriate requests, esp since they did previously (not that things can't change).

Very interesting many of these items. I do agree if you look at this as another timeshare or a deluxe disney resort( I look at it as a timeshare first as well)

I think between your reply and Bills reply just before, that for me after reading both isperhaps the following:

What are reasonable guidleines, expectations, and improvements in all aspects for DVC owners, that are reasonable and that also mainly do not ADD to the yearly MF's?

Deans comment on savanna view / no animals and getting an allowance for that certainly comes out of a budget somewhere and adversily affects out next year MF's. An awesome point that I never thought about! And after reading Bill's post, i sure appreciate where his thoughts are as well. Dirty rooms or rooms received late is ridiculous.

Some other areas is proper internal operations as well. Recently, I receive ME tags and tickets with half of my guests being tagged correctly with AKL bag tags however my other guests saying BLT incorrectly, We arrive Aug. 15 so I called MS to have it corrected. Two things happened.

1. i received the corrected tags and tickets in 4 days! OVERNIGHT EXPRESS, yet my trip is a month away! Money wasted.

2. I received another set of incorrect tags after #1 happened, by mail, but yet another waste of time, energy.

This adds to the overall cost and must affect out MF's.

So in the end, we sure enjoy DVC and the ease of manageing it and using it. But for us, our future will be determined by yearly MF cost versus what is reasonable increases vs. what we see we are getting in return. I am probably not the only one monitoring this for sure! But for right now, we really are happy compared to other timeshare operations, simply need to watch DVC high cost vs. Value in return.

 

[Dean]

It is my understanding that ME costs come mostly from Disney itself and that only a portion is passed on to DVC resorts and therefore owners. Obviously mistakes and poor management costs the overall system somewhere and we all hate to see obvious waste, whether it costs us or not.

I know there are those that care about costs and dues above all else and those that want everything and don't care what it costs with most people being in between. To me it's about being reasonable and providing the items that make sense, that benefit the most people for the lowest cost, etc. There are some items that should be pay to play, valet parking is clearly one of them given the current setup.

 

[JBx3]

The Me cost mentioned, I think as well is a % between DVC and Disney.

And yes, I am one that desires to ration between costs and a desire to get the most possible from it within reason. I think your right...most probably come from either side of views and maybe not a combination of both.

I do not mind high MF's as long as corners were not cut that year or at the very least you can see why MF's are where they are. I would rather pay higher than normal MF's (comparing to other timeshares) at DVC for terrific clean and well maintained rooms vs. lower MF's and outdated or messy rooms! I really never have a problem paying a price if we can see why we are paying it!

After seeing many veterans reply thru these threads, I am still but a puppy when it comes to all this stuff but these posts keep my mind thinking, which must be a good thing!

 

[JBx3]

Sorry, re read your post. I must be one that rationalizes from each side and stay somewhere in the middle as you mentioned. Sorry my mis-read.

 

[Corinne]

#1. I've been a vocal critic of WDW restaurants this last year, usually to lots of flames, so obviously shy & retiring are not adjectives that could be used to describe me.

Well, I have not seen any of your posts regarding WDW restaurants, Eliza, but I also have expressed my opinions of how I feel dining at WDW has gone way downhill (thanks, "Free Dining" and DDP), but I digress!!

So are we all sniffing pixie dust, incapable of seeing the timeshare hell others believe we are in?

I can honestly say I do not regret our purchase whatsoever.

 

[JBx3]

Although I agree dining is a bit off from what it use to be, I am not sure if we can count that as be objective of DVC as they have no control of that?

 

[Tiger926]

Although I agree dining is a bit off from what it use to be, I am not sure if we can count that as be objective of DVC as they have no control of that?

ITA! That's in Disney's control, and not DVC.

Great thread! Tiger

 

[Alexander]

Absolutely no regrets here at all! I will say that we plan to add a Wyndham contract to our timeshare ownerships so we have more flexiblity to stay other places. For about $500 we can pick up a decent points contract. Would I have done Wyndham and not DVC if we had looked at that before? No. We love our DVC and how we use it (WDW and DCL). Wyndham will just give us more options to travel more and to other places. I don't really understand or like the RCI way to trade DVC for other places, but that is no big deal because we use our points at WDW anyways.

 

[Pakey]

I regret buying.

I bought my first contract at BCV when they first sold. I have subsequently done an add on at BCV and another contract at SSR when they started building that resort. The plan was that there would be one contract for each of our 3 sons. I have a total of 530 points.

I paid cash for these contracts; there are no financial issues, no debt, no fear of job loss. Also, I'd been to WDW many times before purchasing DVC; it was not a spur of the moment decision to do it.

We are just tired of vacationing at WDW. Our kids would rather go to Hawaii or Cancun or someplace like that. Yes, I know we can use the points elsewhere. We've done an AbD and a Disney cruise (paid cash, didn't use points) and neither were our cup of tea.

I wish I had just left the money in the bank. I'm an accountant and am usually smart with my money. I wish I had been smart in this instance too.

 

[crisi]

Although I agree dining is a bit off from what it use to be, I am not sure if we can count that as be objective of DVC as they have no control of that?

Although its part of the total package....i.e. I'm less satisfied with Disney as a vacation destination since the dining has gone down hill and they got rid of a golf course. So there is less value to me in owning a timeshare at Disney than there was when I purchased.

That is part of the risk, and to be objective about it, you do have to say "I'm taking a risk that I'm going to enjoy Disney vacations as much (or more) than I did when I purchased - or at least I'm going to continue to enjoy them enough to justify having all this capital tied up in points." Even if something outside of DVC's control happens - like restaurant quality goes down hill, or they close the Adventurer's Club, or there are fewer fireworks, or upkeep on the parks goes downhill.

Pakey, I get what you are saying and its part of the reason that we've managed to avoid the dreaded addonitis. We have very few points relative to a lot of DISers - enough to go for a week every other year. So we haven't gone enough to get burned out - although our family does enjoy (and our kids are getting to the age where they prefer) other trips. We did the Mexico all inclusive last year, and between neverending virgin strawberry daquiris, swimming ALL DAY LONG, and the zip line tour we took, the kids are convinced they'd rather do that again. I don't have enough points to leave to our children - they are on their own for their future vacations. With a smaller number of points, we do other things than Disney. I see some future trips that involve much less park time, and much more time at waterparks.

 

[JBx3]

I understand what you are saying and also Pakey in previous post.

I think the underlying issue is perhaps disney's limitations for destinations outside WDW. No question II was better than RCI, yet with either one of them, trading out of DVC for either is no bargain!

For me, i can only do the parks so many times then need to pull back and I also wish we had a broader range of destinations. That is why we tried HHI and our family just went crazy there! With adding Hawaii and then maybe Nat'l Harbour, maybe????. then some options open up right within DVC. Maybe disney realizes what may be missing???

We are doing a HHI add on and decided to alternate 1 HHI and 1 WDW per year versus 2 WDW trips. If this works out, then we were able to move past all that has been mentioned above, but remember as Disneynuts stated earlier, Disney / DVC are doping just enough to stay near the top of all timeshare ownerships.

My next purchase will be outside DVC to balance the destination issue out for sure.

But let me pose a question... With about 8 or 9 DVC resorts to choose from and still growing, can you imagine if you bought a second home outright, real home. Now you would truly have destination limitations. So when I look at it from that side of the glass, I can still get happy with DVC.

 

[JimMIA]

We bought DVC for pre-paid vacations at quality resorts at WDW, and we have enjoyed our ownership. We didn't buy for perks (although we have enjoyed a few), we didn't buy for the dining plan (although we enjoyed it for a couple of years). We also didn't buy DVC as an investment, because it is clearly not.

A couple of comments on random topics:

• People have a right to be disappointed in the decline of Disney Dining. In fact, if I were CEO of Disney, I'd make them remove the Disney name from the food! We rarely eat onsite any more. But food has nothing to do with DVC.
  
• People have a right to be upset if their room is dirty (even a little dirty). There's no excuse for a dirty room. But that has never happened to any of our family (really 3 families and 28 stays over the last 5 years). But again, room cleanliness is a question apart from the value of DVC -- call somebody and make them clean the room!
  
• Could DVC be improved? Oh, heck yeah! The biggest area of improvement - to me - would be full-fledged membership with decent trading power in RCI or II instead of the "Exchange Lite" we now have. But that will never happen. DVC is going the other way -- building new resorts because they can sell more memberships and make more money than they would make by improving value.
  
  Another potential improvement would be additional DVCs at Poly and GF -- and I think that will eventually happen...slowly.

We have been satisfied with DVC overall. We bought it as a timeshare, and our DVC timeshare ownership has delivered what we bought it for.

To the point of this thread - if I may be allowed to get back on topic for a minute - yes, I think we can be objective (although a lot of us will never be). In fact, I think we can be more objective than anyone else, because we know DVC better than anyone else.

IMHO, the most useful areas where we can be objective are

1) Giving factual and objective information (both pro and con) to prospective buyers. We know the real operation of DVC and can be very helpful to newbies, especially in situations where their only source of information is a timeshare salesperson blowing smoke...or just plain lying.

The first posts of some prospective buyers are actually frightening because their heads are filled with so much sales-pitch stuff from the DVC timeshare salespersons, much of which focuses on the silly stuff -- DCL, RCI, Adventures by Disney, etc. -- instead of the real value of DVC.

We're salty DVC vets now, but we have not forgotten the great assistance we received here on the DIS when we were newbies. We gained a lot of insight and saved a lot of money as a result of the help we found here. We all can, and should, pass that forward.

2) Helping each other maximize the value of our ownership by sharing ideas, experiences, and information. It's scary to me how many longtime owners don't understand basic concepts like UY, banking, borrowing, transfering, holding accounts, etc.

We know that stuff better than anybody - both the good and not so good - and we can help each other and prospective owners with the techincal aspects of DVC ownership ...which are much more important than the fluff.

 

[disneynutz]

I see Disney and DVD/DVC as one in the same. Disney sets policy and all units follow. Their policy is to cut costs and increase profits. I don't have a problem with making a profit but Disney needs to realize that they are getting to greedy, and sooner or later the die-hard Disney fans are going to realize that the spirit of Walt is gone for good.

Maybe the new business model doesn't care about the past and only looks at the future? Offer free food and discounts, and you can keep the place pretty full. The fact that the die-hards have stopped coming won't matter.

I still don't see why DVC can't be a 5 star operation. Why does Disney place all of the rules and restrictions on the membership? It's almost like they don't want you to book last minute and they want you to forfeit points. They advertise all of the great destinations where you can use your points. but in reality, they make it difficult and/or expensive for you to do so.

As I have said before 90% of their effort is marketing and 10%, a token amount, is spent on supporting the existing members, and we are the ones paying for the 10%. How much would dues go up if they gave us 20%?

I don't really care what other timeshares do, if I have a savanna view, I expect to stand inside my room and look straight out at a savanna, not the back side of the pool area. Why won't Disney take a more member friendly attitude with DVC room categories, is it because they rent our rooms out for cash and more money is to be made with savanna views?

Bill

 

[BWV Dreamin]

Nice post Jim! My frustration with certain posts is that I have to sift thru all the complaining and over dramatization to get real FACTS out of these posts. I am not a Kool aid drinker. I do appreciate the facts and thank those who contribute that way. To the other cryers and whiners, tone it down some.

I do want to mention of all of the many changes that have happened since my purchase in 2007, the points reallocations TWICE has been the most detrimental change to my ownership. This change truely erodes the value of our membership. Hopefully this is over for awhile. If this starts to be an every other year occurrence, well that will give me reason to sell.

We bought DVC for pre-paid vacations at quality resorts at WDW, and we have enjoyed our ownership. We didn't buy for perks (although we have enjoyed a few), we didn't buy for the dining plan (although we enjoyed it for a couple of years). We also didn't buy DVC as an investment, because it is clearly not.

A couple of comments on random topics:

• People have a right to be disappointed in the decline of Disney Dining. In fact, if I were CEO of Disney, I'd make them remove the Disney name from the food! We rarely eat onsite any more. But food has nothing to do with DVC.
  
• People have a right to be upset if their room is dirty (even a little dirty). There's no excuse for a dirty room. But that has never happened to any of our family (really 3 families and 28 stays over the last 5 years). But again, room cleanliness is a question apart from the value of DVC -- call somebody and make them clean the room!
  
• Could DVC be improved? Oh, heck yeah! The biggest area of improvement - to me - would be full-fledged membership with decent trading power in RCI or II instead of the "Exchange Lite" we now have. But that will never happen. DVC is going the other way -- building new resorts because they can sell more memberships and make more money than they would make by improving value.
  
  Another potential improvement would be additional DVCs at Poly and GF -- and I think that will eventually happen...slowly.

We have been satisfied with DVC overall. We bought it as a timeshare, and our DVC timeshare ownership has delivered what we bought it for.

To the point of this thread - if I may be allowed to get back on topic for a minute - yes, I think we can be objective (although a lot of us will never be). In fact, I think we can be more objective than anyone else, because we know DVC better than anyone else.

IMHO, the most useful areas where we can be objective are

1) Giving factual and objective information (both pro and con) to prospective buyers. We know the real operation of DVC and can be very helpful to newbies, especially in situations where their only source of information is a timeshare salesperson blowing smoke...or just plain lying.

The first posts of some prospective buyers are actually frightening because their heads are filled with so much sales-pitch stuff from the DVC timeshare salespersons, much of which focuses on the silly stuff -- DCL, RCI, Adventures by Disney, etc. -- instead of the real value of DVC.

We're salty DVC vets now, but we have not forgotten the great assistance we received here on the DIS when we were newbies. We gained a lot of insight and saved a lot of money as a result of the help we found here. We all can, and should, pass that forward.

2) Helping each other maximize the value of our ownership by sharing ideas, experiences, and information. It's scary to me how many longtime owners don't understand basic concepts like UY, banking, borrowing, transfering, holding accounts, etc.

We know that stuff better than anybody - both the good and not so good - and we can help each other and prospective owners with the techincal aspects of DVC ownership ...which are much more important than the fluff.