Considering purchasing Riviera direct or a resale somewhere else (BWV most likely) Help!

[atthebeachclub]

You don't think Riviera at ~167 per pt is worth it?

I am not the same person, but I don’t think it is worth it. Life can happen, and it loses a ton of value on the resale market due to restrictions. If you ever have to sell, it’s not a great spot to be in. Not that anyone plans to sell, but you should always go in with a potential exit strategy.

 

[Sprinkles&Sprints]

I am not the same person, but I don’t think it is worth it. Life can happen, and it loses a ton of value on the resale market due to restrictions. If you ever have to sell, it’s not a great spot to be in. Not that anyone plans to sell, but you should always go in with a potential exit strategy.

I'm curious - for the folks who don't think it's worth it - at what price point direct would it be worth it for you? Or is it just a hard no regardless of price because of the restrictions?

 

[Tatebeck]

I think the current RIV incentives are pretty good if you:

1. want at least 200 points, 250-300 preferred for a better deal
2. you like Riviera and the Epcot area and want to stay there at least some of the time
3. you are stable financially and don't think you'll ever want to or need to sell it. This is hard to know 100%, but good to think about since you will lose some value due to the restrictions if you resell it. It could be better to hold onto it and rent the points, ect. rather than resell.

For me it makes sense because I already have a lot of resale points, and the RIV contract would be the last one we would sell in case of emergency since it has the longest expiration and would hold our direct benefits.

 

[radiodome21]

Not at Disneyland….

I’m glad you brought this up. I docu-signed my DVC contract in a hotel lobby in Los Angeles a few days before going to Disneyland. It was a coincidence that I was buying my direct VGF contract before this trip and I found that not only did the discount seem minimal it also didn’t work everywhere in the parks and only certain downtown Disney restaurants. We going to WDW in December so glad that I should get more mileage out of it.

 

[atthebeachclub]

I'm curious - for the folks who don't think it's worth it - at what price point direct would it be worth it for you? Or is it just a hard no regardless of price because of the restrictions?

I would buy VDH in spite of restrictions, but not RIV. Availability of alternatives is big for me and Disneyland has far fewer alternatives.

I might consider RIV resale, but only if I wanted to stay there. Which I don’t, as the location and room sizes/points chart don’t make sense for our family. Pricing would have to be the same as resale for me to ever consider RIV direct.

 

[Tatebeck]

Yeah if you prefer Disneyland and don't really like RIV it makes it hard to buy in there since it's restricted

 

[EPCOT Terran]

want at least 200 points, 250-300 preferred for a better deal

This is what I'm looking at, either 250 or 300 points direct. I like the Crescent Lake resorts, but I think I'll start at Riviera with direct points and get a feel for how hard it is to transfer into BC/BW. My only concern is that I'm being tempted by the Welcome Home bumps at 250/300 and may not need that many points for the next several years (just my wife and I for now, with 2-3 trips/year of 2-3 days each). That said, I'm not too concerned about resale and the wife and I like Riviera a lot. If I have trouble transferring into BC/BW, I'll just add on 50 or so resale points there (and maybe in a monorail resort, and maybe...).

 

[Tatebeck]

This is what I'm looking at, either 250 or 300 points direct. I like the Crescent Lake resorts, but I think I'll start at Riviera with direct points and get a feel for how hard it is to transfer into BC/BW. My only concern is that I'm being tempted by the Welcome Home bumps at 250/300 and may not need that many points for the next several years (just my wife and I for now, with 2-3 trips/year of 2-3 days each). That said, I'm not too concerned about resale and the wife and I like Riviera a lot. If I have trouble transferring into BC/BW, I'll just add on 50 or so resale points there (and maybe in a monorail resort, and maybe...).

It would be easier to transfer into BW and BC if you do 1 bedrooms with the extra points. They have lower point charts than RIV so the jump from a studio at the RIV to 1 BR at one of those isn't quite as drastic. Though it is still quite a bit more

 

[atthebeachclub]

Yeah if you prefer Disneyland and don't really like RIV it makes it hard to buy in there since it's restricted

I am open to either Disneyland or Disneyworld trips and don’t really have a preference for either, but there are tons of locations in WDW without restrictions, so I see no need to purchase the location with restrictions.

 

[Tatebeck]

I am open to either Disneyland or Disneyworld trips and don’t really have a preference for either, but there are tons of locations in WDW without restrictions, so I see no need to purchase the location with restrictions.

Mmm, yeah If you include resale options, yeah there are a lot of good alternatives. If you are just looking for direct points for direct benefits or long term direct SAP points there aren't a lot of options at WDW. OKW is a good deal, but they just made the deal worse, and it was only good since it was cheap, not because of the location. And it only has a decent expiration, all the other direct options are longer. Poly tower is coming but it's going to be very pricey. If you really like Poly it could be worth it, or you can wait for resale to come down since those points won't be restricted. Then lastly CFW are a disaster so I would stay away from those.

 

[Sandisw]

I am open to either Disneyland or Disneyworld trips and don’t really have a preference for either, but there are tons of locations in WDW without restrictions, so I see no need to purchase the location with restrictions.

That for sure works for anyone who isn’t concerned about staying at RIV a lot.

We bought in spite of them because it’s our top resort. We also didn’t care about resale value because in the end, it’s not being bought for that reasons.

I think one does need to be careful in how much wait one puts on that. But in the end, DVC is just too expensive not to buy a resort you want for its use.

So, restrictions aside, if one isn’t a fan of RIV, then it may not be a good choice for home resort.

 

[atthebeachclub]

Mmm, yeah If you include resale options, yeah there are a lot of good alternatives. If you are just looking for direct points for direct benefits or long term direct SAP points there aren't a lot of options at WDW. OKW is a good deal, but they just made the deal worse, and it was only good since it was cheap, not because of the location. And it only has a decent expiration, all the other direct options are longer. Poly tower is coming but it's going to be very pricey. If you really like Poly it could be worth it, or you can wait for resale to come down since those points won't be restricted. Then lastly CFW are a disaster so I would stay away from those.

The only direct offering I think I MIGHT have considered was the VGF blowout. That was close enough it was reasonable to me. I just think the breakeven for direct for our family is too far out for almost all of these. OKW comes with high fees and is so cheap resale it is still hard to justify the recent direct price unless you want to buy 1000 points, which is well beyond my appetite!

 

[atthebeachclub]

That for sure works for anyone who isn’t concerned about staying at RIV a lot.

We bought in spite of them because it’s our top resort. We also didn’t care about resale value because in the end, it’s not being bought for that reasons.

I think one does need to be careful in how much wait one puts on that. But in the end, DVC is just too expensive not to buy a resort you want for its use.

So, restrictions aside, if one isn’t a fan of RIV, then it may not be a good choice for home resort.

If you want to stay there regularly and don’t have a blue card, it’s a must buy unless you are fine with renting from an owner for now and then usage. But in that situation, think carefully about how you want to stay. Always at Riviera? Just buy used, in most cases. Now and then? You have to buy direct.

I’m well off enough, but always consider resale value on pretty much anything I buy. It’s probably a sickness. LOL.

 

[EPCOT Terran]

It would be easier to transfer into BW and BC if you do 1 bedrooms with the extra points. They have lower point charts than RIV so the jump from a studio at the RIV to 1 BR at one of those isn't quite as drastic. Though it is still quite a bit more

Good thought on the 1 bedroom. Do you have a feeling on availability of 1 bedrooms for either BC or BW at 7 months?

 

[Tatebeck]

Good thought on the 1 bedroom. Do you have a feeling on availability of 1 bedrooms for either BC or BW at 7 months?

A few nights is pretty doable except for the busiest part of the year like the holidays. The longer the reservation the harder it is. I have a 5 night split stay in a 1 bedroom at BC then moving to BWV 1br BW view in mid October that I booked maybe a week or two into the 7 month window

 

[EPCOT Terran]

A few nights is pretty doable except for the busiest part of the year like the holidays. The longer the reservation the harder it is. I have a 5 night split stay in a 1 bedroom at BC then moving to BWV 1br BW view in mid October that I booked maybe a week or two into the 7 month window

Good to hear. My wife and I are usually looking at 2-3 days, Thursday/Friday to Sunday and usually not at the holidays. We like the more moderate temperatures at either end of the calendar, though, so early March to early May and then again in October, early November.

Your comment about a split stay got me thinking. If we're always doing split stays once we have grandchildren to make bigger rooms a necessity, it sounds like doing a 2-day EPCOT area/2-day MK area split stay would be more likely to find availability at 7 months than a single 4-5 day stay at either. Does that sound right?

 

[Tatebeck]

Good to hear. My wife and I are usually looking at 2-3 days, Thursday/Friday to Sunday and usually not at the holidays. We like the more moderate temperatures at either end of the calendar, though, so early March to early May and then again in October, early November.

Your comment about a split stay got me thinking. If we're always doing split stays once we have grandchildren to make bigger rooms a necessity, it sounds like doing a 2-day EPCOT area/2-day MK area split stay would be more likely to find availability at 7 months than a single 4-5 day stay at either. Does that sound right?

Definitely. 5 days weren't available for either resort, but I was able to book a split say for the 2 resorts with my AKV points

 

[BrianLo]

I would buy VDH in spite of restrictions, but not RIV. Availability of alternatives is big for me and Disneyland has far fewer alternatives.

I might consider RIV resale, but only if I wanted to stay there. Which I don’t, as the location and room sizes/points chart don’t make sense for our family. Pricing would have to be the same as resale for me to ever consider RIV direct.

I am open to either Disneyland or Disneyworld trips and don’t really have a preference for either, but there are tons of locations in WDW without restrictions, so I see no need to purchase the location with restrictions.

I’m going to question your internal logic here. Your rationale seems to be an argument of direct versus resale in general, which is valid. All direct contracts walk off the lot and lose empiric value. That’s not unique to RIV. Speculatively it is higher than, but that also falls apart as the prices lower towards the actual price of resale.

You cannot really claim an unrestricted contract holds zero additional value over a restricted one - and yet be incensed on restrictions. ALL resale has restrictions. The delta between an unrestricted RIV direct and a restricted resale is the most extreme, therefore in theory there should be the most value there.

It’s basically akin to asking what one would be willing to pay in ‘wash’ fees to make their existing resale contracts direct. I’m sure there’s a number there. At least 10$/p for the cheapwads. Probably more in the 20’s in reality.

Some people seem to also be incensed constantly when discussing RIV and seeming to be concerned about future buyers. I don’t care what future buyers can do with a contract I sell to them. I only care about the delta between what they are willing to pay for it and what I bought it for.

Probably the delta right now on RIV and its theoretical floor in 2-5 years is actually better than what Poly will launch direct at and how its resale contracts will tank back out. And yet no one will be screaming from the rafters about ‘restrictions’ because that isn’t the actual problem at play. It’s resale value. RIV is always going to have resale value. There’s a floor and I think this board oversells it. It’s largely a desirable resort for most of the normies (taking out our own personal bias about whether we like it or not).

All to say I think RIV resale restriction impact its value somewhere between 10-20%. When on sale for more than that over other theoretical resorts, I think it’s personal bias getting in the way rather than real logic.

 

[atthebeachclub]

I’m going to question your internal logic here. Your rationale seems to be an argument of direct versus resale in general, which is valid. All direct contracts walk off the lot and lose empiric value. That’s not unique to RIV. Speculatively it is higher than, but that also falls apart as the prices lower towards the actual price of resale.

You cannot really claim an unrestricted contract holds zero additional value over a restricted one - and yet be incensed on restrictions. ALL resale has restrictions. The delta between an unrestricted RIV direct and a restricted resale is the most extreme, therefore in theory there should be the most value there.

It’s basically akin to asking what one would be willing to pay in ‘wash’ fees to make their existing resale contracts direct. I’m sure there’s a number there. At least 10$/p for the cheapwads. Probably more in the 20’s in reality.

Some people seem to also be incensed constantly when discussing RIV and seeming to be concerned about future buyers. I don’t care what future buyers can do with a contract I sell to them. I only care about the delta between what they are willing to pay for it and what I bought it for.

Probably the delta right now on RIV and its theoretical floor in 2-5 years is actually better than what Poly will launch direct at and how its resale contracts will tank back out. And yet no one will be screaming from the rafters about ‘restrictions’ because that isn’t the actual problem at play. It’s resale value. RIV is always going to have resale value. There’s a floor and I think this board oversells it. It’s largely a desirable resort for most of the normies (taking out our own personal bias about whether we like it or not).

All to say I think RIV resale restriction impact its value somewhere between 10-20%. When on sale for more than that over other theoretical resorts, I think it’s personal bias getting in the way rather than real logic.

I’m going to question your internal logic here. Your rationale seems to be an argument of direct versus resale in general, which is valid. All direct contracts walk off the lot and lose empiric value. That’s not unique to RIV. Speculatively it is higher than, but that also falls apart as the prices lower towards the actual price of resale.

You cannot really claim an unrestricted contract holds zero additional value over a restricted one - and yet be incensed on restrictions. ALL resale has restrictions. The delta between an unrestricted RIV direct and a restricted resale is the most extreme, therefore in theory there should be the most value there.

It’s basically akin to asking what one would be willing to pay in ‘wash’ fees to make their existing resale contracts direct. I’m sure there’s a number there. At least 10$/p for the cheapwads. Probably more in the 20’s in reality.

Some people seem to also be incensed constantly when discussing RIV and seeming to be concerned about future buyers. I don’t care what future buyers can do with a contract I sell to them. I only care about the delta between what they are willing to pay for it and what I bought it for.

Probably the delta right now on RIV and its theoretical floor in 2-5 years is actually better than what Poly will launch direct at and how its resale contracts will tank back out. And yet no one will be screaming from the rafters about ‘restrictions’ because that isn’t the actual problem at play. It’s resale value. RIV is always going to have resale value. There’s a floor and I think this board oversells it. It’s largely a desirable resort for most of the normies (taking out our own personal bias about whether we like it or not).

All to say I think RIV resale restriction impact its value somewhere between 10-20%. When on sale for more than that over other theoretical resorts, I think it’s personal bias getting in the way rather than real logic.

There are other reasons I wouldn’t buy Riviera directly or indirectly that don’t have to do with restrictions. I want a premium resort, a premium location, a combination of the two, or a good deal. Riviera doesn’t offer any of these things. The location is Caribbean Beach 2. If they add a bridge to Epcot, I would reconsider this stance.

 

[BrianLo]

There are other reasons I wouldn’t buy Riviera directly or indirectly that don’t have to do with restrictions. I want a premium resort, a premium location, a combination of the two, or a good deal. Riviera doesn’t offer any of these things. The location is Caribbean Beach 2. If they add a bridge to Epcot, I would reconsider this stance.

Completely, I get that. But that's opinion and really isn't helpful to trying to identify an actual value in the spread of this specific resort.

If anything, since you DISLIKE RIV, there's even more value for you between a direct RIV versus a resale, because you can use the direct at other resorts you actually like throughout your ownership of the contract. That difference is worth something tangibly. In your case it's the extreme amount.