Consider DVC, help me (and others decide)

[Roveer]

Here's a great opportunity for all of those with lots of experience to help a long time WDW visitor (GF, Poly, AKL) who's family has grown a bit to large for double queen room accomodations.

We've been going to WDW since my (now 9yo) was 1 1/2. Only time we missed is when we were having another young one. We are now 2 parents and 4 kids who are 9,6,3 & 1. This year we packed outselves into the Polynesian and while we had a great time it was tight. We left Poly for DCL where we stayed in the walt suite (once in a lifetime, and boy was it worth it), for a 4 night, then back to AKL for 2 nights before returning home. They overbooked AKL and put us in a smaller room which led to a pow wow with management and eventually they caved and put us in a 2 bedroom suite for the price of our original reservation. It became very obvious that we really should be looking at 2 bedroom accomodations but when I looked at the room rate for the AKL room we stayed in it was 1,500.00 per night Yikes!!!

So, I'm considering DVC as we just love coming to Disney at least once a year. I see DVC giving us the size accomodations that we would need. The only downside is that we are so used to staying at a monorail hotel. MK is still the family favorite and nothing was better than hopping the monorail back to the Poly when someone would melt down.

So, Give me an idea of what I should do?

I see those selling points at 70-80 per point. I'm thinking I'll need 260+ points to be able to get a 2 bedroom villa at most places. Does one buy from DVC a minimum and then add to it from a resale? Why would I want to pay the full DVC rate? I also see those renting or selling one time points for 10-12 bucks. So very confusing. Disney literature is too fluffy, watched the DVD, read the website. The juice is here at DIS!!! I'd be interested in what you folks have to say.

We also love cruising, so eventually we'd want to use points for a DCL (or from what I've read, sell our unused points and use the $$$ for DCL). I like the idea of all of the locations. Vero is not out of the question when the kids get a little older, also Hilton Head would be nice too... Ah, when I saw the alps on the DVD with the castles that peaked my interest as it's my wife's dream!!!

So, Let's have a good old throwdown on the info and see what we come up with. I'm thinking this may be the way to go, cause I'm not shelling out 8-10k per year for suites in the hotels!!!

Thanks and I look forward to all the responses.

Regards,

Roveer

 

[PamOKW]

Sounds like it makes sense for you to look into DVC ---

To help you "judge" how many points you might need, is there a particular time of year you usually vacation and/or how many nights do you generally stay at WDW.

Don't forget that even if you don't really use the cooking capability at DVC, you'll probably save money just by eating in breakfast and snacks.

 

[disneydance]

Ill join you in this how much does each point cost anyway

 

[caracarn]

Depending on time of year, that will really determine how many points you need. 260 is a good number that will get you settled at most resorts outside the really high seasons. In that case I think DVC would be a great option for you. Room prices go up about 6-8% per year, but maintenance for DVC has gone up 3.8% over the life of DVC, so around half as fast.

Another point I though I'd hit is buying from Disney or not. If you buy from Disney you can finance with them at a decent rate. If you have access to othe financing you can usually do better yourself with a home equity line etc. Also , there are no closing costs with Disney as they pay for those, but with resales you do pay closing costs. If you can get points at 70-80 on resale it may be worth it, but I think most are going a little higher than that recently.

Hope that helps.

 

[Anthony1971]

Buying DVC is a personal decision. It would appear that DVC may fit your vacation needs as you should vacation to Dinsey at least once a year and want to for future vacations and you wrote you do that. As far as the amount of points you need click on the point calculator on the top and look at SSR and AKV for the time you would normally vacation and you will get an idea of the amount of points you need. You can consider the other resorts as well they are available through Dinsey or resale but the safest and easiest way at this point is what is available now if you do not like either of those resorts and are sure you do not want to stay at them and would like one of the sold out resorts than look into resale. Your other option would be to buy the Min 160 points through disney or a 150 points resale and you should be able to go for two years with borrowing and then cruise on the third paying cash.
The sold out resorts seem to be cheaper through resale as far as the avialbale resorts when you add the incentives plus you get form Disney it seems resale can be more expensive except in the rare case of a contract that has banked points.

 

[Mtnman44]

I think you should look into it, based on your travel patterns and needs. 260+ points is not going to be real cheap up front but is going to save you tons over the years vs. 2 room suites or two room bookings at the WDW hotels. I don't know what two rooms at the Poly costs for a week but it's gotta be a lot.

As for the monorail, you may have to give that up, although there is a very good chance that a new DVC is being built at the Contemporary right now. However, nothing has been announced officially yet.

 

[Roveer]

I had a whole reply composed this morning and something whacked out on DIS as when I clicked submit it went back to the login screen and the text was gone.

Anyway. There are so many variables when considering DVC it's very hard to come to an easy decision. I went back and looked at the point charts and noticed that my estimate of 260 wasn't even close. I'm looking at 270-370 for our needs and that only gives a single week per year. While I was thinking of a 17-24k investment, I'm now looking at 28-38k before dues!!! Yikes! Have to really think this over... Might have to continue to cram the kids into the Poly for a few more years and bank the money. Found a good article on mousesavers (don't have the link handy, but I believe it was their DVC FAQ) that really put things into perspective.

All things considered we are still good candidates for DVC but at 38k +2k/year I have to give it an awful lot of consideration. That money can do a lot if invested correctly.

I've also come to understand through my reading that only the disney resorts offer the best value for your DVC points. The other 493 are not nearly as good. Well that pretty much wipes the "look at all the other places we can go" reasoning away. I'm not saying it's a rip off, but if it's not an exceptional value, then I'm not interested.

Still trying to determine if we'll be coming back to Disney for the next 35 years or not...

Regards,

Roveer

 

[Mtnman44]

You could also look at resale. OKW are among the most affordable. You could pick up 300 OKW points for around 23k to 24k. You may not even need as many points if you want to stay at OKW as the point requirements there are lower than the other DVC properties (yet the rooms are the biggest!). As for the annual dues, well that shouldn't be much of an issue since you are traveling to WDW hotels each year and spending at least that but probably more. If not, you should think about the DVC purchase very carefully, it may not be best for your situation.

do you plan on WDW trips every year? If not you could always buy half as many points and go every other year by using banking/borrowing. Just an idea.

 

[Roveer]

mtnman44:

All good suggestions!!! Will have to give these ideas some thought. We have to come to grips on what our Future WDW habbits will be as I think this will drive a lot of our decision making. Also, I think our next visit to WDW will need to include a tour of some of the DVC properties and offerings. Our big sticking points are as follows:

1. Overall cost of DVC (although you make some good suggestions)

2. Location of DVC properties and the necessity of disney transportation (yes, I'm the guy lugging the double stroller, and with a 1YO & 2YO will be for a few more years)

3. Will we still be doing disney in 15, 20, 30 years??? (magic ball time)

Were getting to that point in our lives where we are becoming picky about accomodations and felling comfortable while we are away is important. Of course that comes with a price. At AKL it was 1,500.00 per night (thankfully that's not what I had to pay), and that is one of the reasons that I started looking into DVC.

See, all the numbers make perfectly good sense if I were to compare DVC to a 2 bedroom suite in Poly or GF etc, but the reason I'm looking at DVC is because I can't (read wont) shell out the costs of these suites. But, you really have to use he heck out of Disney to lower your breakeven period. Problem is, I can't work with those numbers because I am not willing to pay that much for our stays. that with the above items are my sticking points. Not a dead issue, but definetly at a roadblock for night now. Have to seriously consider opp cost of other investments. So many variables!!!

Regards,

Roveer

 

[jdvm]

We were exactly where you are back in 1992. We had three daughters at the time and wanted some privacy. There were some condo-type rooms that Disney had in what is now part of Saratoga Springs that we'd use but they weren't great. When Disney Vacation Club (what Old Key West was originally called) opened, we stayed there and bought on the spot. The experience we had was not unlike your enjoyment of the suite at Animal Kingdom Lodge.

From what I've read, you'd be great candidates for DVC. I would make one suggestion. On your next visit, stay in a DVC two bedroom and pay cash for it. It will certainly be less that the Animal Kingdom Lodge suite!! If you like it SO much that you decide that you'd stay there for cash on future visits, then DVC is a great deal. In my view, if you buy DVC to trade up and really wouldn't stay there for cash, it's a bit of a red flag. And I'd also be careful with points on a cruise. DVC points make the most sense in DVC resorts.

Hope this helps
John

 

[kend58]

We are a family of 4 but with 2 teenagers and 1 or more friends along on most trips we always want 2 bedroom accomadations minimum. I have had Disney refuse to book two rooms because we only have 1 over 21 year old on the entire length of the ressie's (Wife going for the 10 day trip me flying in on a long weekend in the middle darn that nagging job but it pays the bills )

Our solution was to get an off-property resale TS there are many nice ones near Disney (we bought at Vistana; there are also Marriott, Hyatt and Hilton and they are all relatively close by and Fairfields Bonnett Creek is basically surrounded by Disney property) lots of others also exist but these are the big names that are close by. My point is you can have the 2 bedroom villa accomadations for much less money up front and equal or lesser annual MF if being on property is not highly important to you.

Should being on Disney property be highly important to you then run the numbers comparing the family suites at the values, and two rooms elsewhere (Port Orleans, CSR or CBR, WL and AKL) against what the DVC will cost you and see when your payback comes (my guess somewhere in the 7 to 11 year range). I could not justify that to myself we seem to go in spurts 2 or 3 trips in 2 years and then 3 years or so away from Orlando. My solution was I bought off property resale TS and recovered my purchase costs in two trips (TS acauisition and closing costs and two years maint < two stays in two std rooms at Poly or AKL which were our choices (bought TS in Aug 06 took SB 07 and have scheduled Christmas 07 trip we are about $500 in the black against two rooms at Port Orleans and break-even against those two rooms at All Star Music they wouldn't let me book for SB trip) Thanks to Disney rules I am now ahead of the game. We gave up EMH and access to DDP we tour opposite to EMH so I consider that a wash (i.e I go today where EMH was yesterday ususally that park is less crowded overall in my experience). The DDP is offset by AP and DDE so while not a wash with out of pocket expense the flexibility to eat where my family wants when we want offsets the advantage from DDP often the kids want to get CS and ride while DW and I dine that at TS wouldn't work so well as I understand the DDP. All in all I am at least IMHO coming out OK on staying off site and saving money in the process.

I am still investigating a small DVC to get onsite day or 2 bolt-ons for just before or after the week-long offsite villa reservation (we just love our 2 bedrooms and don't like the $800 to 1,200 a night with AAA discount the 2 bedroom suites seem to book for so prepaying for that type of stay plus ability to trade into Disney collection on DW's dream Japan and Europe vacation itineraries are the reasons I am looking to purchase a small DVC contract (darn DVC and their 160 minimum or I could just buy AKV direct and be done)

 

[Mtnman44]

Roveer -

If you'll allow me to give you some more input. Keep in mind this is just my opinion. Everyone's mileage may vary.

Take a deep breath and think this through. Although this board is full of Disney and DVC nuts, there is NO need for DVC in order to have a great or many great Disney Vacations. DVC is good for people, especially those needing larger accomodations, who:

-Travel to WDW often, at least every other year
-Plan to do so for at least the next 10 to 15 years
-prefer Moderate or Deluxe level Disney property locations

Now answer this to yourself: If you passed on DVC or had never even heard of it, would your family continue visiting WDW regularly and when you did would you be spending money on deluxe level hotel rooms or larger moderate resort rooms (at least $250 per night with tax)? If not, STOP and think carefully. DVC may not actually save you money for a LONG time. If you would go offsite or use Disney Value rooms (only one room for the whole family), STOP - DVC may not actually save you money for a very long time.

For example, right now on wdwinfo.com's home page you will see the Buena Vista Suites AD (which is always there) for a 2 BR suite for $78 per night, including free breakfast. Now this isn't a fancy place and it is off property but I would guess that there is nothing wrong with staying there if it helps your family travel often to Disneyworld and it would save you money vs. DVC, especially for the first 10 years or so.

On the other hand, it can be hard to make a fair apples to apples financial comparison as staying on property is a different vacation experience so it all depends on how much value to give that. For others, it is not about saving money at all but just about knowing you have prepaid vacations for many years at a wonderful vacation destination.

Also keep in mind that your expected life of disney trips greatly affects the purchase consideration. As I have alluded to, financial comparisons during the first 10 years or so can be close but as you project out your use to 15, 20, 25 years and beyond, your actual cost per night drops significantly (cost of annual maint dues + original purchase price / total nights. So if you have a reasonable expectation of 30 years of trips, this may influence your decision vs. only 10 years of expected vacations. In other words, consider a Hypothetical $20,000 purchase with $650 in annual dues (in today's dollars). Assume these points are used for 7 nights per year.

10 years of vacations means total expenses of 26,500 divided by 70 nights = pre paid cost of $378 per night.

20 years of vacations is 33,000 divided by 140 nights = $235 per night

30 years of vacations is 39,500 by 210 nights = $ 188 per night

40 years is is 46,000 by 280 nights = $164 per night.

The one thing missing from all of this is if you are done with vacations at 10, 20, 30 years etc, it is assumed you would sell the contract and recoup some portion of your intial purchase, bring the total cost average way down, but it is impossible to speculate on what those amounts would be and what the real value would be that far in the future. Still, you could assume that especially the 10, 20, and 30 year figures are high because the contract re-sale is not included.

mtnman44:

All good suggestions!!! Will have to give these ideas some thought. We have to come to grips on what our Future WDW habbits will be as I think this will drive a lot of our decision making. Also, I think our next visit to WDW will need to include a tour of some of the DVC properties and offerings. Our big sticking points are as follows:

1. Overall cost of DVC (although you make some good suggestions)

2. Location of DVC properties and the necessity of disney transportation (yes, I'm the guy lugging the double stroller, and with a 1YO & 2YO will be for a few more years)

3. Will we still be doing disney in 15, 20, 30 years??? (magic ball time)

Were getting to that point in our lives where we are becoming picky about accomodations and felling comfortable while we are away is important. Of course that comes with a price. At AKL it was 1,500.00 per night (thankfully that's not what I had to pay), and that is one of the reasons that I started looking into DVC.

See, all the numbers make perfectly good sense if I were to compare DVC to a 2 bedroom suite in Poly or GF etc, but the reason I'm looking at DVC is because I can't (read wont) shell out the costs of these suites. But, you really have to use he heck out of Disney to lower your breakeven period. Problem is, I can't work with those numbers because I am not willing to pay that much for our stays. that with the above items are my sticking points. Not a dead issue, but definetly at a roadblock for night now. Have to seriously consider opp cost of other investments. So many variables!!!

Regards,

Roveer

 

[solgent]

When deciding to buy DVC, some of our considerations were

(a) In previous trips kids were much younger. Now we were ready to stay on property so that family members can easily come and go. You may find that one parent takes the younger ones back for a nap or bedtime while the other parent stays out later with the older ones. Or, not too many years from now, teens will be able to use Disney transport and go on their own.

(b) We wanted the space.

(c) We wanted the kitchen. Much cheaper, faster, healthier, to eat simple familiar meals than to eat out all the time.

(d) We expected to return year after year as it is a destination that DH and I can agree on and that we expect the children to continue to be attracted to.

These priorities pointed us to DVC.

You mentioned your point needs for a week. Since weekends are very expensive pointwise, our approach is to avoid them. We use points Sun-Thurs. Last year that was how long we stayed. This year we are staying elsewhere for Fri and Sat. We're excited to try new places. You could start with a smaller contract that gives you five weekday nights; you always have the option to add on later.

Also we find that the DVC resorts are so nice that we don't want to go to the parks every day. We have off days to sleep in, rest, enjoy the awesome pool facilities, go to DTD, enjoy a leisurely meal at a special restaurant, etc. I don't want to go so far as to suggest that we are saving money overall, but we do feel that this strategy helps us enjoy the vacation to the utmost and get the most value from our vacation budget.

 

[ddhoeg]

When deciding to buy DVC, some of our considerations were

(a) In previous trips kids were much younger. Now we were ready to stay on property so that family members can easily come and go. You may find that one parent takes the younger ones back for a nap or bedtime while the other parent stays out later with the older ones. Or, not too many years from now, teens will be able to use Disney transport and go on their own.

(b) We wanted the space.

(c) We wanted the kitchen. Much cheaper, faster, healthier, to eat simple familiar meals than to eat out all the time.

(d) We expected to return year after year as it is a destination that DH and I can agree on and that we expect the children to continue to be attracted to.

These priorities pointed us to DVC.

You mentioned your point needs for a week. Since weekends are very expensive pointwise, our approach is to avoid them. We use points Sun-Thurs. Last year that was how long we stayed. This year we are staying elsewhere for Fri and Sat. We're excited to try new places. You could start with a smaller contract that gives you five weekday nights; you always have the option to add on later.

Also we find that the DVC resorts are so nice that we don't want to go to the parks every day. We have off days to sleep in, rest, enjoy the awesome pool facilities, go to DTD, enjoy a leisurely meal at a special restaurant, etc. I don't want to go so far as to suggest that we are saving money overall, but we do feel that this strategy helps us enjoy the vacation to the utmost and get the most value from our vacation budget.

ITA solgent! All excellent points and suggestions! I would add the huge advantage of the washer/dryers in 1 and 2 bedroom units. This has completely changed the way we pack since we know we can do laundry as needed. We also have 4 kids and the w/d has decreased the amount of luggage we check and transport dramatically. Some people don't like to do laundry on their trip, but we take advantage of it and come home with clean clothes in our suitcases. For our large family, this is huge!

 

[Fortywinks]

ITA solgent! All excellent points and suggestions! I would add the huge advantage of the washer/dryers in 1 and 2 bedroom units. This has completely changed the way we pack since we know we can do laundry as needed. We also have 4 kids and the w/d has decreased the amount of luggage we check and transport dramatically. Some people don't like to do laundry on their trip, but we take advantage of it and come home with clean clothes in our suitcases. For our large family, this is huge!

Some great points from a lot of these posts. The clencher for our family of 4came right after we did a tour on Christmas day 2005 (We normally do 6-8 days around Christmas). The next morning while doing laundry ($8 washing and drying) at the laundrymat in the All Star Resorts and looking at DVC info--- we signed that afternoon. Although we have always loved staying at value resorts, the extras at the DVC resorts made the difference.. SSR 270 pts. Added on since for total of 440 pts.

 

[ddhoeg]

Here are some thoughts from someone who also has 4 kids and has enjoyed DVC membership tremendously . JMHO and YMMV. I will leave the debate on the money and savings to others .

We've been going to WDW since my (now 9yo) was 1 1/2. Only time we missed is when we were having another young one. We are now 2 parents and 4 kids who are 9,6,3 & 1. This year we packed outselves into the Polynesian and while we had a great time it was tight. We left Poly for DCL where we stayed in the walt suite (once in a lifetime, and boy was it worth it), for a 4 night, then back to AKL for 2 nights before returning home. They overbooked AKL and put us in a smaller room which led to a pow wow with management and eventually they caved and put us in a 2 bedroom suite for the price of our original reservation. It became very obvious that we really should be looking at 2 bedroom accomodations but when I looked at the room rate for the AKL room we stayed in it was 1,500.00 per night Yikes!!!
Roveer

I completely understand your position as this was us a few years ago as well. We had stayed at the GF the same week each year for 5 straight years and couldn't imagine staying anywhere else. After child #4 came along and we had 6 in a standard, double queen room at the GF, we knew time was our enemy as the kids weren't getting any younger or smaller. Something had to give . We also knew there was no way we could/would pay for a suite at the GF and booking 2 rooms at a VR didn't sound too great either (no flames please - JMHO). You sound like you enjoy staying on-site and if that is the case, your choices for a family of 6 are somewhat limited. You've already experienced larger accommodations and know the difference it can make.

So, I'm considering DVC as we just love coming to Disney at least once a year. I see DVC giving us the size accomodations that we would need. The only downside is that we are so used to staying at a monorail hotel. MK is still the family favorite and nothing was better than hopping the monorail back to the Poly when someone would melt down. Roveer

If you really are planning to go to Disney at least once a year, the Poly and its 1 bathroom is only going to get smaller and tighter for you. You will have little alone time in the room with your spouse - critical with 4 kids IMHO. A DVC 2 bedroom offers you space to spread out. We find that we can put our youngest 2 to bed early or for a nap and still have older kids in the living room watching a movie, games, etc., and DH and I can be in our room or on the balcony having a glass of wine or watching something that we want to watch of TV in our room. The room configuration and space really allow us to relax and enjoy our trips more than we previously did.

We thought we would miss the monorail access as well, but have found it not to be as big of a deal as previously thought. Your days with the double stroller are numbered unless you end up having more kids . (Of course my youngest one is almost 4 and we still lug one around but really not a big deal to us).

One idea would be to consider VWL for your purchase. It is close to MK which is your family's favorite park, and if you can catch one of the big boat transports (not all are), you don't have to fold the double stroller and can push directly on and off at the resort. You can also take a boat to the monorail station at the CR just to let your kids have the monorail experience if that is important to you. With pool hopping privileges (in accordance with all of the rules), should you want to spend time at the Poly pool because you have fond memories there, you can do that. You are still very close to all of the MK amenities and activities at VWL. Finally, dedicated 2 bedrooms at VWL have 2 queen size beds in the 2nd bedroom (not all DVC resorts offer that - some only have 1 queen bed and pullout sofa bed). This is also a big deal to our family! Every person has an actual bed which adds to our overall comfort.

HTH a little bit anyway. We love our DVC and haven't had any regrets. We have added on twice since our initial contract and would love to pick up more points as finances allow. Good luck in your decision!

 

[Amy5000]

See, all the numbers make perfectly good sense if I were to compare DVC to a 2 bedroom suite in Poly or GF etc, but the reason I'm looking at DVC is because I can't (read wont) shell out the costs of these suites.

Roveer. I totally understand your point above. It's hard to compare apples to apples. When I started to look at DVC I thought I'd want to 2 bdrm for our family of 4 so DH and I and the kids could each have a bedroom. But when I saw how many more points 2 bdrm and even 1 bdrm villas were I decided it wasn't for me. We bought a small number of points and will deal with a studio. (I actually told a friend I don't ever want to stay in anything larger than a studio b/c I know I'd be hooked...especially the dedicated w/d). I know the larger villas are a bargain compared to anything similar in a delux, but I would never pay that kind of $$ either.

I did want to point out that if you were ok with splitting up your family, you could get 2 studios (which sleeps 8) for way less than a 2 bedroom. (You loose the full kitchen and in room w/d and extra bath). Also, while your little one is young you might be able to squeeze into a VAK 1 bedroom (I think those are slotted for occupancy of 5 adults plus a child under 3).

Finally, I think someone suggested good advice for considering looking at OKW (OKW's 2 bedrooms require fewer points for the same period). A 2 bdrm at OKW during Dream Season is 27 pts. during a weeknight. How much does that cost vs. a room at the Poly where you are squeezed together? You could consider staying at DVC Sunday to Thursday and then staying in cash rooms over the weekend when the DVC points are highest. I know it can be a drag to change rooms. But these are all decent compromises that would let you enjoy many of the benefits of DVC while not shelling out the higher $$ for a larger contract. One of the benefits of DVC is flexibility. You can consider that in whether to purchase.

Good luck. Amy

 

[Amy5000]

I went back and looked at the point charts and noticed that my estimate of 260 wasn't even close. I'm looking at 270-370 for our needs and that only gives a single week per year. While I was thinking of a 17-24k investment, I'm now looking at 28-38k before dues!!!

One more thing...I wanted to make sure you were looking in the resale market. Resale has its drawbacks (takes time, dealing with ROFR) but if you are purchasing a larger contract saving $10 or more per pt adds up. There also happen to be a very large number of resale contracts on the market rights now at the different DVC resellers.

Good luck. Amy